Rooster,

We got this question recently on the Tri Association of NYC mailing list. I've copied my responses below. Hope they're useful. (Note the original question didn't just ask about Computrainers, it also asked about the benefits of measuring power and about training on rollers.)

---

I recently made the investment in a Computrainer, because I need to be able to do 2+ hr rides in the middle of winter without adding an extra 20 minutes on either side to get dressed and undressed for the cold. As an added bonus, my son can watch his Elmo videos while I ride, so I burden my wife a little less with kid-care while I train. A Computrainer is a seriously expensive piece of equipment, though, and only justifiable if you plan to use it for several years.

If you do want simulated courses, some less expensive but less versatile options are the TACX i-Magic VR ergotrainer and the Cyclops Electronic+. The TACX offers some more features in the software, the Cyclops is a slightly higher quality resistance unit. Cyclops also offers the Cyclops "Electronic" which doesn't have the software but does have power measurement. If you don't want to connect to your computer for simulated courses or measure your pedalling efficiency, you can step down to the TACX Flow Egrotrainer, which will measure power output and allow you to train at different power settings. It's about half the price of the trainers that do connect to your computer, but a little more expensive than the Cyclops Fluid2.

What's the benefit of power output? The biggest benefit is from measurability and repeatability -- you can do the same workout week after week and see exactly how much you're improving. You can observe how much your power output declines over the course of a long ride so you measure development of muscular endurance. As a triathlete, you can measure your sustained power output in different positions -- upright, hoods, drops, aerobars, out of the saddle, etc -- to help you develop a better sense of how to ride different parts of a course. A good bike fitter will use your power output to help determine your optimal position on the bike.

The second biggest benefit is the ability to VERY easily vary the workload for specific periods and specific levels. The Computrainer uses this capability to simulate uphills, downhills, wind and drafting. A cycling coach or a good training book will give you intervals and sustained efforts at different power levels to help you develop your climbing ability and your muscular endurance. If you're also doing road races, you can use big bursts of power to develop your ability to jump, sprint, climb out of the saddle, etc. You can do all those things with a variable resistance Mag trainer like the Cyclops Mag w/remote but you'll have no idea whether you're actually sustaining the effort or not.

Last, a quick note on rollers: I have to admit that I've never ridden them. The people who use rollers are road racers, for whom bike handling skills are very important. Most will admit that riding on rollers for more than 30 minutes is excruciating because of the concentration required, although pros can ride rollers for hours. If your concentration wavers you can go flying off the rollers into the wall, not the best experience for anyone. For most triathletes, the purpose of indoor training is to develop more strength & power and to maintain fitness over the winter. An indoor trainer is far better suited to that purpose for most of us than rollers are, although a trainer does almost nothing to develop your cycling skills, which most triathletes sorely lack.

JackRabbit sells both Cyclops and TACX. We keep the Cyclops Fluid2 and Mag w/remote in stock, and can special order other Cyclops trainers or any TACX trainer. We don't sell computrainers but can put you in touch with a local coach who does.

---

Cycling is by far my weakest of the three sports -- I'm terrible on the hills and I really fade on long rides. So one of my goals for this winter and over the next several years is to become a better cyclist -- able to ride further comfortably and able to climb better. In addition to weights and some hill specific workouts, the best way to achieve those goals is simply to put in lots and lots of time in the saddle. What limits my ability to train on the bike are my obligations to the store and to sharing childcare with my wife.

So my primary reason for getting the computrainer is that the simulated courses make it easier to do long, sustained efforts indoors without getting bored out of my skull. I had a fluid trainer (cheapo one from Performance, worked POORLY, don’t waste your money on a cheap trainer) and I would be ready to kill myself after an hour. Also, riding the fluid trainer was very hard work; my legs were fried after an hour, and it took me two days to recover. I could make it easier by downshifting, but then my cadence was too high for me to sustain for long periods of time. I needed to decrease the resistance, but didn't have a way to do that. On the CT, if I do a 10-15 min warmup and then ride a simulation of an Oly distance bike segment that's a good hour and a half workout. If I want a good 3 hr workout I can load the bike segment of a half-IM or ride one loop of Lake Placid or any of several other courses.

The Computrainer also has a simulated pacer, which I can set at a fixed average power output. If I want to try to average 190 watts for an hour, I can set the pacer to 190 and try to stay ahead of him. Typically he'll be faster down the hills and slower up the hills, but it gives me something to work at.

I'm also a data geek. I can watch my average power output decline over the course of a three week workout program, and increase after a one week rest period. I've seen my peak output go up directly in proportion to the weight I'm pushing in the gym. I can see my almost perfect spinscan number in the first hour of my ride completely fall apart by the end of the second hour, when my right leg is providing a lot more power than my left. That data helps get me back on the trainer next time to see how I improve.

The biggest drawback in my book is that it's definetly designed for someone who is comfortable with technology. The programs aren't the most user friendly in the world and diagnosing problems is tricky. Press the wrong button and you lose several hours of training data. It doesn't do that great a job simulating downhills, although I feel like it does a good job with uphills, which matter a lot more to me. The spinscan number is a good indicator but not that precise. I'd love to get something that really tracked wattage per leg throughout the pedalstroke, but I think you need dynameters in the pedals to really do that. And lastly, to take advantage of it you need a computer and a monitor, which adds to the expense. I use my laptop, but eventually I'll buy a beat up old computer on Ebay and dedicate it to driving the CT.

Lastly, be sure the Computrainer is the best use of your money for the training impact. The Computrainer is expensive. For the same amount of money you can buy a moderately priced tri bike. Or buy a Powertap hub which will tell power indoors and out. Or you can buy a fixed-gear bike and ride it for a few months to develop strength and symmetry in your pedalstroke, and still have money left over for a fluid or mag trainer. For me, the simulated courses make it possible to me to train long distances indoors, so it's money well spent.

Hope that helps!

Lee Silverman
JackRabbit Sports
Park Slope, Brooklyn

I trained for IMFL this year, much of that on the CT. I am gone 11 hours most days and the CT made working out more convenient. My workouts were very detailed as to HR and Cadence. I used spinscan mode to track those during workouts. Spinscan also helped me with my pedal stroke. I even did a 6 hour ride when the weather was bad on a weekend. That was tough.

When I first got the CT I would ride in 3d mode exclusively. I could ride actual courses like Olympic bike courses or IM courses. I dont use that at all anymore preferring the feedback of Spinscan. I am asking for Watts Up software for Xmas to help with more feedback from that program. I feel I need to be stronger on the bike.

Feel free to ask any specific questions.

el

Some thoughts:

I did all of my IM training the past two years on my Computrainer. This is not optimal, but the only thing that would work for my lifestyle (little kids and husband gone).

I am technically challenged and didn't have any problems setting it up or using it.

I like the feel of it better than my Cyclops fluid trainer.

Long rides weren't really that bad. I just watched a lot of videos or listened to music while my kids watched videos or did rides after they were in bed. I did about 4 6 hour rides and a 7.

I found it easy to chart progress by repeating the same course/workouts.

It would definately be better not to use it exclusively, but if you can't, it can be done.

It seems to be a whole lot more comfortable doing long rides outside than on the trainer.

My results are nothing to write home about, but I did make the Slowtwitch 13 hour cut-off.

IMFL 2004 11:55:10 (19 MPH bike)

Two basic values...

1) time management tool

2) training management tool

For time management... that's obvious... it's in your home and you don't have to waste time getting out on the road or going to a gym. Not only that, but for winter training it is very valueable.

For training, I find it best value by providing hill and steep mountain training in an area that has no (none, zilch, nada,...) for hills (But, lots of steady and high winds). Also, it provides for using a more effective method of determining effort level - Watts. Working on percent of wattage values is more accurate than HR percentages as the definition of effort.

The Computrainer is good for all level of triathlon distances. But, I find it more useful (specially from a time management position) for IM training. Moreover, it does make long rides much more tolerable... racing against yourself... actual courses... working on spin efficiency... ect.

FWIW Joe Moya

When I do fall off my rollers. Because I do fall . I have never run into a wall . Your wheels can only store up so much energy. My 1750 gram wheel set ( I have no idea how much my wheels weigh I just want to feel good about my self and thought it was a good place to start impresing others to) dosn't move me forward at all.It must be a physics thing and being the Dirtball I don't have a clue about that. I just fall over. To the left most often and my wife gets a chuckel if I ain't hurt bad and require no trip to hospital. I read about running into a wall on rollers but I have never seen it or done it. It does sound fun though.

Dirt
PS I like computrainers but they cost a lot more then the rollers I got for free cost and I am a mac guy and could never hook the thing up.

I'm still using a Computrainer that I got back in '97, and I've been able to go under 5 hours at IM distance races in the past, training on it for various sessions. I used to use the Dan Rock training book, with the different workout sessions. Now, I just design my own. The IMH out and back ride is definitely strenuous.

Tony

QuitanaRooster,

I noticed your post. I just did Ironman Florida for the second year in a row. I am a race director by trade and am 59 years old. I train 100 percent of the time on a Computrainer and have for 7 years now. I had knee surgery in 2000, bone replacement. As a result I increased my cycling time on the Computrainer. I normally do 200-275 miles per week on it. My bike splits at Florida: 5:03:52 in 2003 and 4:57:52 in 2004, both averages over 22.1 mph. So the answer is yes, the Computrainer is an excellent training tool if used correctly. You just can't get on it and ride, you need to work hard and challenge yourself on the many available courses it offers. Contrary to what has been said here, it's easy to set up and use( I carry one in my Truck for when I am away from home), setting up in 20 minutes or less. I could go on but I'll let you digest all of this, then write back if you have questions. If you doubt my times, check my splits on www.Ironmanflorida.com. In 2004 I dropped out of the run due back spasms @ 16 miles on the run but that does not negate my bike split. In 2003 I finished in 12:23:20.

Ironjack

So you are one of the bastards that take everyone else's heart out!

Geez Monk,

I wasn't trying to brag here, just show QuintanaRooster that the Computrainer plus work can make it all happen at an IM event. No hard feelings.

Ironjack