I vote 404's! However, I've never ridden the HED 3s.

---

Enjoy the journey!

Damn, I hope your diamond-encrusted shoes still fit too. Cost no object I assume, I would go with the lighter 404's. But it's not like you can go wrong with either.

I have the 404's on my P3....love em'

zipp hubs are bad so build zipp rims on shimano hubs. the deeper the rim the better. 400 series on the front, 800 series on the back.

hed 3 rears are all a little funk by design. the cassette bodies/cassettes have more wobble then other hubs and shifting is sightly effected on 9sp setups. 10sp setups must be worse.

Agree with all the others: I've had both and I like the 404's much better. I really disliked braking hard on a downhill with the Hed3s (not often, but scary enough). If they are "only" race wheels, stick with the Zipp hubs - they are ultralight and plenty durable (certainly better than they used to be). If you are going to train on them (don't laugh, I've seen it), then I would also recommend a different hub of your choice (White Industries, Shimano, etc.)

---

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

If going clincher = HED 3

If going tubular = 404 or HED 3 Carbonlite

Other than that, both wheels are great and perform very well.

"hed 3 rears are all a little funk by design. the cassette bodies/cassettes have more wobble then other hubs and shifting is sightly effected on 9sp setups. 10sp setups must be worse. "

It's funny you mention that. Only last night I took my 3 disc into the LBS to ask what was causing the wobble (initially thought the hub was set out of true but the wheel is pretty good). Not sure what causes that wobble. He removed the casette body (if that's what it's called) and a thin sliver of what looked like a 1/4 of a washer dropped out. Couldn't see where it came from (maybe they jammed it in there to reduce the effect! - we hoped it may alleviate it).

I just went to DA10 as well and noticed that on the one occasion I have trialled it the bike made a bit too much noise for my liking. Was visibly noticeable on the 9spd but didn't get much noise (if any).

I wrote to Hed last week but have yet to get any response. Would be nice to get at least a "yeah we had manufacturing issues and many are like that, sorry" rather than ignored.

those shims keep the wheel true. take them out and watch the whole wheel wobble.

I hate to dude... just for asking that!!

---

---

http://twitter.com/krepster || http://www.pedro-gomes.com || follow all the action on facebook

On flat courses I prefer the Heds. Everything else, I prefer 404s.

But, whichever wheel you buy, you should love them.

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

QuintanaRooster,

You need to ask yourself a few questions in order to help with this decision.

#1 - What kind of racing do you plan on doing? Mostly flat? Some hills? Lots of hills? If some hills or lots of hills, get the 404s. They are lighter for sure. If flat racing, get the H3s or the 404s.

#2 - What is your intended speed average? If 24+ mph, I'd go with H3 front/disc rear. If less speed, the 404s. I've raced at 26+ mph in TTs on both wheels and then H3s are faster to me.

#3 - What wind conditions do you anticipate? Live near the coast, where it's windy? Get the 404s. Although I have done TTs in 30 mph winds on H3s with no problems (I weigh 146 lbs.)

#4 - Do you want to never true a spoked wheel? Get the H3s.

Either way, you're going to have a Merry Christmas. Style wise, I'd go with the H3 front/ZIPP disc rear on a P3. Just looks fast standing still.

~AB~

If you can wait till there available the Zipp 606 set sounds Sweet
Cullen

Get a Disk for the rear, regardless. You won't have any regrets!

---

TheBikeRacer.com

Disc in the rear (any of them). Hed 3 in front is likely a touch faster than a 404 (in my opinion), is a bit heavier, is a lot stronger. I'm 145 pounds so I went with 909's. My friend who is more like 190 has a Hed 3/Renn. Cheap (relatively)/great option is a hed3/Renn. If you really think weight matters (and it does not - at least in most of our races and the differences we talk about) - the 404 tubulars are the way to go - but a disc is the fastest wheel without a doubt. The new Zipp 808's will likely cost a lot - I think the dimples are a joke.

Overall I think the Hed3/Renn vs. Zipp 909 is a toss up. Likely very similar speed. Hed 3 very durable. Zipps a fair amount lighter. 909's only available in tubular. Price considerations. 404's are a very good all around wheel-set by why not ride a disc???? If you go to Kona - and you can afford to go - get a 2nd rear Kona legal wheel. I also had some worries with Hed3 speed wobbles.

Dave