I'll jump in here. A triathlon is a race. And it should be treated and thought of as a race. If you are not fast and just want to finish, that's fine, just move out of other peoples way. When I was new to cycling, I read every bike magazine I could get my hands on. I read them from cover to cover. I've never had trouble riding in a group. Before I did multi-sport, I educated myself and watched a race before I jumped in myself. It's not our responsibility to take time and educate others, they should take it upon themselves. It amazes me how people jump into things not prepared. But, that is life and there will never be a solution. At Jack's races in DFW, everyone still does not listen. And you still have problems on the course. I'm a big guy, and people LOVE to draft me during the race. I like the strict tone he takes, because that is the only way to get through. There is always going to be the people out there that don't care about you. You can yell at them to F* off all day and it doesn't bother them.

---

Olen

I think the overall premise of TNT is admirable but I have a few questions:
1. Why do the pick high profile races like St. Anthony's, Wildflower, Memphis in May, Los Angeles, etc.? Why not some of the smaller, out of the way venues where the RD could certainly use the extra entry fees? How about Duke Blue Devil where they could benefit another charity(100% by the way)?
2. While on the event portion of this, they seem, according to their website, to favor walking marathons. I cannot imagine being a RD and having to cope with the screaming automobile driving citizens when their streets are tied up for 8 hours while someone walks and talks for 26.2 miles.
3. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this but how do you justify to your family and friends that of the $1500 you got them to contribute only $250 goes to research and the rest goes to salaries, benefits, travel, coaches, etc. Newbies will be newbies but this is the part that takes me aback.
By the way, if someone can read the financials on the home site for TNT and call me to task on this, please have at it.

Bob Sigerson

Sig -- In answer to your post:

1) TNT does many race events, some "high profile", some not (Anchorage Marathon, Kennebunk Tri, Great Bermuda Walking Marathon, etc.). And, in some cases, race events become high profile BECAUSE TNT brings so many people - i.e. the race pot is higher, there is more $$ for the RD to do better organizing & promoting, etc. Given that many TNT folks did 2:30 or better at St. A's, why WOULDN'T they want to be at this high profile race event?

2) As it says (clearly) on their site, there are certain marathons for running, and certain ones for walking, and some for either. Most TNT marathoners run. Whether TNT has people walking or not, many people walk marathons -- it is up to the individual race to determine when to shut the course down, and those rules apply to everyone. TNT decides on which ones to do partially based on the race policies, NOT the other way around.

3) The mission of the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society is not purely research, it also funds patient services, patient & doctor education, etc., to help treat and find a cure. Typically, 75% of TNT funds raised go directly to paying these program services, while the other 25% go towards administration costs. (See http://www.leukemia-lymphoma.org/...nual_Report_2001.pdf pages 34-37) This ratio is actually better than most charitable organizations.

I like the general TNT Tri discussion here: seems most people are trying to balance the goals of giving the faster triathletes the space they need to race fast, bringing more new triathletes to the sport(who know and follow race rules), and giving _everyone_ a great, safe race/event experience. However, please don't partake in unnecessary (and false) bashing of a charity organization that has raised hundreds of millions to help treat and find a cure to some horrible blood-related cancers; that's ugly.

I completely agree.

At least make an effort to have waves in an order of fastest to slowest. For example, have the men's 20-40 waves first, followed by the women's 20-40.

I wonder why race directors keep insisiting on having the women's 25-29 go right after the men 65+?

I understand that rds don't have all the day to finish the race and that they want someone around when the "slower" folks finish, but they are really putting people at risk here by doing this. A lot of crashes, a lot of near-misses would not occur if wave order was changed around.

Besides, is not discouraging for these "slower" folks to be passed and be yelled at the hole way? I would rather ride without being told "to your left" the whole time and get to the finish line later when 1/2 the folks have gone home. That is what happens in marathons.

>>Besides, is not discouraging for these "slower" folks to be passed and be yelled at the hole way? I would rather ride without being told "to your left" the whole time and get to the finish line later when 1/2 the folks have gone home. That is what happens in marathons.<<

Good lord, you've never been in the last wave in a big race, have you?

I'd sure as heck have people passing me DURING the race than seeing everyone in their cars on the way home while I'm still out on the course.

No food/drink left. Or, what is left is S.H.I.T.

Portas totally full to overflowing with no TP.

Volunteers have to stay that much later and they usually have almost everything put away anyway (or nothing is left).

Vast temperature differences in races like 1/2 Vineman. First waves start in 55F and fog and only get the heat at the very end of the run. Before they started doing the rotating wave starts, I always start in about 75F and hit the middle of the bike in about 80F weather and then the run in the hottest part of the day. The early waves have already finished. (1/2 Vine has wave starts spread out over more than 3 hours.)

That's just a few issues we in the back have to deal with.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

John, please do not accuse me of false statments when I got my numbers and facts from the L&L Society website and the TNT website.
When I first got interested in this I looked on the TNT website and the prominently displayed tris were St. Anthony's, Memphis in May and Wildflower. Marathons don't bother me because they just want numbers and there isn't much danger in running or walking a marathon just driver frustration.
The numbers came from the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society website. In round numbers, 172,000,000 gross were collectte and 28,000,000 was immediatetly deducted to pay for things like travel expenses to events and coaches stipends and then there was 11,000,000 in in salaries and fundraising expenses to manage TNT and patient services. My calculator says this is >38% of the gross funds donated. On top of this you add the 35,000,000 in salary and benefits that it took to provide the patient services you have a lot more than 25% you are talking about.
I also looked up the Society on to charity comparisons and one gave it 3 stars, good, (4 stars excellent) and the other rated it somewhere in the B's where a B+ or above is given to a charity where $2 or less out of each $100 is spent on administration.
Jon, I do not have anything against you, TNT or the Socity. If I was approached by a TNTer, though, I would try to comvince them to train on their own and join the Bone Marrow Registry as I think if there is one place a meaningful donation can be made it is there.

Bob Sigerson

So why pick the big name races? Because they're something that the newcomers may have actually heard of. The big races show up in the "sports events" section of the newspaper, and get local TV coverage if it's a smaller market or slow news day. Once you get past, IMFL, and Gulf Coast, the third largest tri in my area is Santa Rosa Island. It's got a pro wave, it got tv news coverage last year, the race was well covered in the local daily paper, and the RD got a couple nice write ups in the local weekly free paper. Way more people have actually heard of it than say, Demolition Man or Elephant Walk or Mullet Man or the rest of the local sprint calendar. So you get people who sign up for it because it's a race they've actually heard of, and the RD has made it easy to track down entry information. Hard to start with the small races if you never know the smaller races exist, or if the small races don't seem terribly interested in taking your money. (I'm still trying to track down entry info for Elephant Walk this year)

As for newbies, make them pass a short rules test before they race in a USAT race. I played golf for a year in high school. Our coach made us pass a golf rules test before we were allowed on the course in the spring. I don't see it as too unreasonable, and though it wouldn't eliminate the cluelessness, it would cut down on it.

Jill, I've done Elephant Walk and SRITRI the past two years and I don't remember seeing Team in Training there. Where they? By the way, Elephant walk won't have anything out until mid-June at the earliest.

Bob Sigerson

"As for newbies, make them pass a short rules test before they race in a USAT race. "

My comment: if a rules test is put into place, everyone should have to take it once. I've run into a couple of athletes this year that have raced for quite a while, but didn't know the answer to the question: "If you are passed, what are you required to do?" They thought that you could drop just behind the passer, pull to the left, and repass. They had no idea that they had to drop back 3 bike lengths, out of the draft zone, before attempting a repass.

Years of experience and knowing the rules don't always go hand-in-hand.

Sig, I put in the link to L&LS's actual financial statements above, which explains this better, but I think that you have an (understandable) incorrect assumption. As I wrote, "benefits" aren't all research, they include ways to improve the quality of life of patients & families, which is part of the L&LS mission.

"Salaries & benefits for Patient Services" has nothing to do with TNT expenses, nor administration expenses; they are a direct benefit helping patients with blood related diseases. Patient services include things like transportation for patients who can't afford to get to chemotherapy sessions, or funding an Information Resource Center which runs workshops and answer questions for patients & their families, or running support groups, etc. So, the $35 million in "Salaries and benefits" are for the people who provide these direct services for patients & families (e.g. paying the people who drive patients to chemo, run workshops, etc.).

The site that gives L&LS a 3 out of 4 star rating states that it spends 75.8% on program services, defined as "the percent of its total budget a charity spends on the programs and services it exists to deliver." This matches up with their official financial statements, and also the information you pulled from the TNT website. Also, ($28M + $11M)/$172M that you pulled from the TNT website is 22.7%, not ">38%" as you stated.

I'm not saying that this is the best, or only, charity out there. There are many good ones supporting this or other causes, and I'm glad you support the Bone Marrow Registry (which some TNT chapters actually promote to participants). But as far as efficiency and effectiveness as a charity, L&LS is solid.

John, the exact numbers:

Total Fundraising Receipts - $172,542,000.
Total Support(Admin & Fund-
raising) - 38,299,000.
Direct Expenses not include-
Travel, Entry Fees, etc - 27,747,000.
__________
66,046,000.
Percentage- 38.28%
Jon, every organization needs a fundraising hook, yours is endurance events. I have nothing against this whatsoever but as I've said previously, TNT should be doing these events on their own ala MS Ture for Cure. You could make more money and devote more to research to defeat the disease that now takes most of your resouces just for support and education.

Bob Sigerson