Clearly, you shouldn't get a regular massage. Just let the rest of us waste our money in peace.

Thanks,

John

when training for my 1st ironman i received monthly massages. I absolutely believe that they were a major benefit in my completing the race. There is not only a physical element to a massage but, more importantly, the emotional/psychological aspect helped me to relax and get away from the stresses of training and life in general.

The key is to find a masage therapist that understands what you are doing to your body and mind during training. It took me 3 years to find the right therapist and I enjoy my massages so much that i am currently in massage school and will be licensed in 18 months to give massage.

Do you stretch? Can you show me a scientific study that concludes that stretching will make you a faster triathlete?

Do you try to eat reasonably well? Can you show me a scientific study that concludes that eating a different diet will make you a faster triathlete?

Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God? Would you be suprised if more than half the world would disagree with that question which ver side you choose?

There are a lot of things that would be real hard to prove with a scientific study. I would think massage would have to be evaluated over several months to years to get any valid conclusions. So far no one on earth has developed a plan to do that. Maybe that would be your claim to fame. You could also say the same thing for a stretching study, comparison of doing bricks to not, types of tapers, use of equipment ie read Power Cranks vs Roto cranks. Do you 100% believe either of the "studies" those two have put out?

People who get regular massage swear by it, others question it (especially when you have to pay for it). But much like you say if you were a pro you would do it, so with you it is a justification of value for the money. At that point it is hard to say. A little bit of massage is like a little bit of stretching . It might help a little but probably won't help a lot, G

>Do you stretch? Can you show me a scientific study that concludes that stretching will make you a faster triathlete?

A little. I've been looking at stretching as well, but that's for another thread.

>Do you try to eat reasonably well? Can you show me a scientific study that concludes that eating a different diet will make you a faster triathlete?
There's a ton of stuff in Pubmed on diet, I might go through that later. Studies show up different things on an almost daily basis e.g. How much alcohol is good/bad for you. There are lots of studies on food and you have to take some of them with a pinch of salt. But I'm happy enough with my diet. The problem with stretching is that there aren't a lot of studies.

>Would you be suprised if more than half the world would disagree with that question which ver side you choose?

No, that's their right. If you believe in massage I respect your view. However, I need not agree with you.

>There are a lot of things that would be real hard to prove with a scientific study. I would think massage would have to be evaluated over several months to years to get any valid conclusions. So far no one on earth has developed a plan to do that. Maybe that would be your claim to fame. You could also say the same thing for a stretching study, comparison of doing bricks to not, types of tapers...

If I was in the massage industry I'd be keen to do a scientific study to validate my job, and I'm surprised it doesn't seem to have been done already. (Or at least if it has been done, I can't find it - can you?)

>use of equipment ie read Power Cranks vs Roto cranks. Do you 100% believe either of the "studies" those two have put out?

I've not read the thread, but use of new equipment and the performance gain is relatively straighforward to measure and verify.

Most things that you can think of to study have been studied in some form. There is literature / RCTs looking at stretching - there is thus far little evidence regarding stretching and injury prevention. As far as diet goes, there are studies demonstrating that specific components of diet improve athletic performance.

There is this regarding massage:

British Journal of Sports Medicine. 32(3):212-4, 1998 Sep.

Abstract

BACKGROUND: Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is a frequent problem after unaccustomed exercise. No universally accepted treatment exists. Massage therapy is often recommended for this condition but uncertainty exists about its effectiveness. AIM: To determine whether post-exercise massage alleviates the symptoms of DOMS after a bout of strenuous exercise. METHOD: Various computerised literature searches were carried out and located seven controlled trials. RESULTS: Most of the trials were burdened with serious methodological flaws, and their results are far from uniform. However, most suggest that post-exercise massage may alleviate symptoms of DOMS. CONCLUSIONS: Massage therapy may be a promising treatment for DOMS. Definitive studies are warranted.

This doesn't show it makes you faster, only maybe less sore.

One problem is negative publication bias - studies that show no benefit tend not to get published as much as those which show an effect. It is much more difficult to show that something doesn't help due to needing a high power in the study ie lots of patients.

Deke

When I was in massage school, there actually WERE studies references in the physiology part of the course. However, I don't believe any of those are posted on the internet. This isn't really difficult to believe either, as there may actually be quite a few studies done prior to...let's say...1994 when the internet exploded into mainstream society...that have never made it online.

Just because we can't find it on the internet doesn't mean it doesn't exist ;-)

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Medline covers all peer reviewed articles back to 1966; it predates the internet by a long way, and has a standard of quality infinitely superior in terms of reliability. If the journal they are published in does not meet scientific publication standards, it would not be included. It is likely though not definite that any high quality randomised controlled trial would be included.

Deke

I have never seen a study that can validate if I eat a Big Mac today I will go faster or slower over my twenty year career. Or if I bend over and touch my toes a couple times a day my Ironman will be 3 min 25 seconds faster . Hell we can't even prove my super aero bike is faster than my round tube one if I sit up and stretch every ten miles or if the wind comes over my lert shoulder and I have water bottles.

Every thing is pretty subjective and for a scientific study to be valid they have to put so many controls over the variables, the variables in realworld conditions seem to over ride the study. How many times have you seen a guy on an aerobike riding on the tops? I beachcruiser in a tuck is faster than than.

As far as massage and Ironman is concerned I would thea the top 10% of the finishers spend a lot more time on the massage table than the bottom 10 %. G

Hey guys

Am finishing my physiotherapy degree in Australia, and have just finished a comprehensive lit review on post-exercise massage and DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness). The bottom line? Unfortunately, it was hard to reach conclusions. The studies that we found were all methodologically quite poor, and despite this, there was mixed results between studies. Low sample sizes, poor randomisation and poor allocation of control groups were the main problems. In a few studies they used 1 leg as a control (no massage), and the other leg as the variant group (received massage), despite the fact that massage has systemic effects... A good way to reduce the difference between groups, I think.

So anyway, post exercise massage may or may not help DOMS... noone can say for sure yet. And that doesn't take into account other problems that massaeg can help with, mood tight structures, and so on...

Aidan

Thanks Aidan,

Okay, so no evidence about preventing DOMS. What about the other claims: promotes recovery, improves performance, prevents injury, improves digestion (as suggested on this thread).

Ian

Did you see Supersize Me? Not very scientific, but I am unlikely to eat any more Big Macs for the benefit of my health in general, not just my triathlon career. Many of the 'little things' that can effect cycling aerodynamics are covered here http://www.analyticcycling.com/RiderAeroStudy.html - the point is that they are measurable.

I agree that more of the top 10% of finishers get massage, but they are not in the top 10% because they get a massage. I wonder how many of them know that it might not actually be doing them any good.