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Predictions for Veep Debate?
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I think both will do well and I don't think it'll be nearly as one-sided as the first Presidential debate.

I heard Chris Matthews say he'll be counting the times the word "Haliburton" is said as an indication of how well Edwards keeps the pressure on Cheney.

I also read this is Edwards first career debate!?

Thoughts?
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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Oops, eastcoasttri beat me to the punch!
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for killing my thread! ;)

Well, i'll keep yours going since we're the only two interested in this so far today. I was actually reading up on it. I heard that it's true that Edwards has no debate experience... However, he is a trial lawyer so I wouldn't count him out... Although it's debatable (pun intended) whether or not his lawyer experience will translate to good debate form.

I will say this though... Edwards has him beat in the battle of charisma.

P.s. I read there will be no podiums? It's going to be a roundtable type discussion... still i'm tuning in.
Last edited by: eastcoasttri: Oct 4, 04 9:39
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope Edwards doesn't channel the spirit of a dead girl again and Cheney doesn't bite the head off a kitten. I will miss this one just off the "doesn't matter factor".

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Don't forget that if Edwards steps out of line... Cheney might just drop the F bomb on him! It all depends if Cheney takes his medication or not. I think you're probably right that it doesn't matter. It still could prove entertaining.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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Edwards will be charming and articulate and just "off" on enough issues to make Cheney mad. Cheney will then come off as gruff and exasperated.

Cheney speaks best in a one-on-one setting; his public speaking before a crowd is unremarkable at its best and downright damaging at its worst.

Those are my predictions FWIW.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [eastcoasttri] [ In reply to ]
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Edwards would have had some debate experience from the primaries, but clearly Cheney has the edge in experience.

The agreement was that they would stay seated, likely this is because Cheney is much shorter than Edwards and Rove & co. didn't want Cheney to look "short", which apparently is pretty important to likely voters (shrug).
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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I truly think this debate is more important than people are making it out to be.

It will be an interesting debate. Edwards certainly has more charisma than Cheney but this is a debate and not a jury.

Edwards doesn't have any debate experience and the pressure is on Cheney to perform due to Bush's performance in the first debate.

If Cheney doesn't lose his cool I think he'll do well. He is a plain spoken direct talker who doesn't mince words. Edward's drama won't go well against him in a debate where people are tired of the campaign rhetoric.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [eastcoasttri] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks eastcoast, sorry about that!

It would seem to be a fairly even match going in with Edwards winning the charisma factor and Cheney with the experience so I don't think either would come in with a lot more expectation than the other. I think if Edwards is effective he can put him on a defensive on a lot of issues, but Cheney won't get rattled like Bush did so he'll minimize the impact. Edwards can be more aggressive than Kerry was at taking on the Bush Admin, where Kerry was walking a fine line between attacking but not looking overly negative.

Look for Edwards to hit early and hit hard to get Cheney on the defensive, that strategy worked great for Kerry. Pretty sure I read that Cheney won the coin flip so he'll be answering first however.

Probably come down to spin, and how much it will matter I don't know. The pressure is on Cheney to stop the momentum shift but its also on Edwards to keep it going and increase it.

Kind of nerve wracking to be hitting all topics in one debate though...should be interesting...I'll be tuning in as well.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [Brian286] [ In reply to ]
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"the pressure is on Cheney to perform due to Bush's performance in the first debate. "

oh...are you admitting that Bush actually 'lost' the first debate???
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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As long as the debaters don't keep repeating "I've got a better plan" or "It's hard work" than it will be 90 minutes worth watching.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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No worries TTT, I was just having fun with you...

I like your breakdown... Although, i'm still sticking to my thought in a post last week:

Cheney should come out in a Darth Vader outfit... Edwards should come out as Luke Skywalker.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting breakdown of why the Veep debates can be interesting pointed out by Alan Shroeder on CNN:

"The vice presidential debates are a little looser, they tend to be a little nastier," Schroeder said. "For the audience they can make for more interesting television."
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [eastcoasttri] [ In reply to ]
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First Rummie admits there is no hard link between Al Qaeda and Iraq and now Paul Bremer says they didn't have enough boots on the ground to secure Iraq.

Are they deliberately trying to give Edwards ammunition for tonights debate?
Last edited by: TTTorso: Oct 5, 04 10:49
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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Seriously,

It's almost as if they're getting "cocky". Bremer and Rummy, can't be that dumb... Although, now I know why the administration tries to keep Rummy from talking as much as possible.
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Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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FYI...from CNN...there's more to the story.

Bremer added that ousting Saddam was "the right thing to do."

A senior Defense Department official said that Bremer never asked for more troops and expressed annoyance the ambassador appeared to be second-guessing the advice of military officials. Bremer stepped down after the June 28 handover to an interim Iraqi government.

Bremer attempted to clarify his comments in a statement released Tuesday, saying his remarks referred only to "the situation as I found it on the ground, when I arrived in Baghdad in May 2003, and when I believed we needed either more Coalition troops or Iraqi security forces to address the looting."

"We developed a plan to address this problem, which has been continued by Iraq's Interim Government," he said in his statement.

During a campaign speech Tuesday in Tifton, Iowa, John Kerry said Vice President Dick Cheney should acknowledge mistakes made in Iraq, pointing to Bremer's remarks about troop strength after Saddam's ouster. (Full story)

Cheney and Kerry's running mate, North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, will debate Tuesday night in Cleveland. (The debates)

Meanwhile, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Monday conceded that U.S. intelligence was wrong in its conclusions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

"Why the intelligence proved wrong [on weapons of mass destruction], I'm not in a position to say," Rumsfeld said in remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. "I simply don't know."

When asked about any connection between Saddam and al Qaeda, Rumsfeld said, "To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two."

But a short time later, Rumsfeld released a statement: "A question I answered today at an appearance before the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) regarding ties between al Qaeda and Iraq regrettably was misunderstood.

"I have acknowledged since September 2002 that there were ties between al Qaeda and Iraq." (Full story)

Bremer detailed Saddam's brutality against his own people and spoke of visiting a field that was a mass grave for 20,000 to 30,000 Iraqis, including women and children.

Saddam "killed more Muslims than any man in modern history" and may have killed as many as 300,000 Iraqis during his 35 years in power, Bremer said.

At the time President Bush went to war, Bremer said, the United States and other nations had intelligence suggesting that Saddam had:

  • Provided a safe haven to terrorist groups.



  • Used chemical weapons against Iran and his own people.



  • Lied about the possession of weapons of mass destruction for almost a decade.



    No weapons inspection teams from the United Nations had been allowed in Iraq for almost four years, Bremer said, so there was a "real possibility" that Saddam might provide weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups that have vowed to kill Americans.

    "The status quo was simply untenable," Bremer said.

    Bremer said he believes Iraq will be able to hold elections scheduled for late January.

    "Despite the daily reports, I am optimistic about the future of Iraq," he said.

    Bremer made similar remarks on troop levels at a student forum last month at DePauw University in Indiana.

    "The single most important change ... would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout," Bremer said in September. He said he "raised this issue a number of times with our government" but allowed that he "should have been even more insistent."

    On Monday, Rumsfeld was circumspect when asked whether the "no-go" zones that exist in a number of major cities in Iraq would invalidate the results of January's planned elections.

    "It seems to me that that is up to the Iraqis, No. 1. They have a sovereign country. They're going to decide what their elections are. They're going to make every call with respect to it."

    He added, "Needless to say, your first choice is to say that every -- we know every Iraqi deserves the right to vote. And one would anticipate that that would be the case."

    His answer differed from one he gave to a similar question last month. He implied then that voting need not be universal.

    "Let's say you tried to have an election and you could have it in three-quarters or four-fifths of the country, but some places you couldn't because the violence was too great," he said. "Well, that's -- so be it. Nothing's perfect in life. So you have an election that's not quite perfect."

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    Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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    During the debate I will be watching Rides and Overhauling.

    customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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    Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [Brian286] [ In reply to ]
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    Brian,

    Just to help you out... Shortcut commands (in case you're not aware)

    Copy - Ctrl + C
    Paste - Ctrl + V

    That ends today's lesson in "copying and pasting"... tommorow's lesson "How post pictures"

    ;-)
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    Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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    John Kerry and John Edwards, along with the French, are all CHEESE-EATING SURRENDER MONKEYS!! (hee-hee).

    Question: Can anyone name any significant legislative accomplishment of John Kerry's in all his 20 years in the Senate? I mean, there's a "McCain-Feingold" Act, a "Graham-Rudman-Hollings" Act, a "Roth IRA", "Pell Grants", "Fulbright Scholarships" and so forth. Even Robert Byrd, reprobate and self-anointed expert parliamentarian, probably has a thousand bridges, tunnels and expressways named after him back in West Virginnie :-)

    What's the guy done besides miss a ton of committee and floor meetings and kvetch from the backbench?

    Bush isn't my most favorite person in the world, either, but he's got a verifiable record of performance going back to his governorship of Texas, and he's running on it and at least asking us to judge him on it. On the other hand, Kerry's asking all of us to take a big chance based on just about his word alone, and his admittedly-valorous behavior over a 4.5 month period of his life over 35 years ago.

    I personally don't think it's enough.

    Tony
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    Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [eastcoasttri] [ In reply to ]
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    You forgot Ctrl + A to Select ALL. :)
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    Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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    -- Bush isn't my most favorite person in the world

    Come clean Tony, you have a picture of Dubya on your desk don't you?
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    Re: Predictions for Veep Debate? [TTTorso] [ In reply to ]
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    Not on my desk........he hangs directly behind me, over my head, in my office ;-) Actually, I don't do pictures. Not even one of my wife in my office. In the industry that I work in (the airlines), my employees would see something like a Dubya photo and go berserk. I'd find my car vandalized in the parking lot and whatnot.

    And they'd end up defacing the wife's picture, too :-) For being some of the most highly-paid nonskilled labor in the country, they're sure some of the most angry, right now, for various reasons.

    Tony
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