However, unless you are a security expert, I don't think you know which ones are useless and which aren't.

Right. And unless I'm an expert in politics, I guess I have no business criticizing my elected officials either. After all, they surely know better than me. Give me a break.

Also, nothing in the Constitution guarantees you the right to get through the airport line quickly. No, and I suppose if these measures were put in place by the airlines, I'd have no cause to complain. But they aren't.

A lot of things that many Americans consider rights are, in fact, privileges. Americans like their privileges, and many will get incensed if you try to take some of them away. Such as? And think before you answer, because I'm going to be asking who grants those privileges, and what business the federal government has in taking them away.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"Right. And unless I'm an expert in politics, I guess I have no business criticizing my elected officials either. After all, they surely know better than me. Give me a break. "

Read the sentence before that before you decide on another snappy comeback. I said that it's fine for Americans to question these things. My point is that just because you don't see the purpose in something doesn't mean there isn't any. Maybe there is, and maybe there isn't. Finding out from an expert and then trying to scale back on what is legitimately overkill is the right way to go about it.

"A lot of things that many Americans consider rights are, in fact, privileges. Americans like their privileges, and many will get incensed if you try to take some of them away. Such as? And think before you answer, because I'm going to be asking who grants those privileges, and what business the federal government has in taking them away."

Ask away. How about the one I already mentioned? You have no right to get through airport security quickly. The govt. runs airport security, and therefore can take away the privilege of leaving your bags sitting unattended at the gate, of you getting through the security check line quickly, of you parking within bomb distance of the terminal, or of you not having to open your bag before you get on the plane.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"The real answer is, maybe never."

Yep. And personally, I'm OK with that. I'm not happy with the "no profiling," PC crap, however. I mean, muslim terrorists are usually... well, muslim. Most of them can be profiled, but we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Well, maybe we should worry about hurting the feelings of all the law-abiding folks who DON'T hijack planes and start putting the heat on the ONE ethnic group that does this kind of crap.

I already know the objections, but if you realize that 100% of all suicide bombers are muslims, and 99% of those are ethnically Middle Eastern, we could sure get a lot more bang for our security buck by ignoring all people with blonde or red hair, just for starters... Know what I mean?

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

What exactly is "ethnically Middle Eastern" in your divine wisdom? Is that some new designation heretofore uncategorized? Or is it just some generalization you made up to show how little you know of the region?

If you actually did some research, you'd know that the region is made up of many ethnic groups, quite distinct, and often distinct looking. Blond and red hair, while not "average" is also not unusual. Given the area's history as the center of trade for millenia, this should not be all that surprising.

However, given your responses on the other thread regarding torture, you evidently believe that essentially everybody there is guilty, especially those we pick up in our security sweeps. Apparently, it's just one big brown mass that kills our soldiers, not groups of individuals. The notion that people over there are individuals, and that many of them simply want to get on with their lives is alien to you - to you they're simply the enemy, and if they're unlucky enough to end up in our custody, they must've done something.

Interesting that you invest such confidence in our government in these affairs, and so little elsewhere.

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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"

"What exactly is "ethnically Middle Eastern" in your divine wisdom?"
- - Let me give you a hint, moron, NOT red haired, not Asian, not Polynesian. Yes, the Middle East is populated by folks from different original blood lines, from the Persians to the Copts, but you know, NONE of them look like Paddy O'Reilly, my neighbor who was randomly selected for complete screening on his recent trip to his homeland .Can you guess where that might be, trio? If I sent you picture of him with Sheik Yerbouti, do you think you could tell them apart?

"However, given your responses on the other thread regarding torture, you evidently believe that essentially everybody there is guilty, especially those we pick up in our security sweeps. Apparently, it's just one big brown mass that kills our soldiers, not groups of individuals."
- - Yes, and your ability to totally dodge the point is noted as well. First, we differ on the definition of torture, as I believe there should be actual pain involved and you think we should line some of ours up against the wall and shoot them for making a suspected terrorist wear his underwear on his head. Next, I definitely believe that those "swept" up were where they weren't supposed to be, during a time when law abiding citizens should have been huddled in their basements, are to be suspected, and at a time such as this, even here in America many rights would be suspended.

"Interesting that you invest such confidence in our government in these affairs, and so little elsewhere. "
- - Government? I beg your pardon, my faith is in our military, which just happens to be one of the few legitimate functions of government.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

And your interest in setting up a "straw man" is noted as well. I don't recall making any point about torture or punishment of the troops. But evidently you know me better than I do.

And if I refer to your definition that torture requires pain, I take it that you believe sodomy is pleasurable. Getting bitten by a dog is pleasurable. And in at least one case, getting dead is pleasurable as well. But those are just meaningless details, of course.

I'm sure others find your general incivility charming, but I don't. If you want to call somebody a moron, look in the mirror.

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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"

Amen to that, brother!

"I don't recall making any point about torture or punishment of the troops. But evidently you know me better than I do."
- - Well, you've gone on and on about how evil they are. What are you suggesting then, promotions all around? LOL

"And if I refer to your definition that torture requires pain, I take it that you believe sodomy is pleasurable."
- - Ooh, speaking of strawmen@@

"Getting bitten by a dog is pleasurable."
- - It ain't torture, fool. It happens to criminals (which is the sort of folks we be talkin' 'bout) on a daily basis.

"And in at least one case, getting dead is pleasurable as well. But those are just meaningless details, of course."
- - Terrorists, Bubba, we're dealing with terrorists. Where's your outrage about the beheadings?

"I'm sure others find your general incivility charming, but I don't."
- - Gee. you keep lining up for more...

"If you want to call somebody a moron, look in the mirror."
- - That would be inappropriate. I'm actually a lot smarter than you, which is why I am qualified to judge you.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

However unfair profiling is to the innocent, it is a very useful tool for law enforecement and security folks. If 80% of all bank robbers wear a mask, and I see a guy in a mask going into a bank, I have a right to be suspicious. Cops and security guys don't profile solely on race or appearance either. They look at things like destination or departure points, luggage, how you carry yourself, etc... To ask these guys to protect us, but not allow them to use all the legal tools available is pretty crappy.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Highly unlikely in any conventional sense, but then again, I suspect that deluding yourself is a daily activity.

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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"

You have a remarkable habit of stepping all over yourself. Maybe if you'd concede a point here or there you wouldn't be considered such a jerk.



I have no idea what you're talking about, but then again nobody else does either.



"Getting bitten by a dog is pleasurable."
- - It ain't torture, fool. It happens to criminals (which is the sort of folks we be talkin' 'bout) on a daily basis.[/quote]

So being threatened and bitten by an animal isn't torture? And the last I checked, criminals in this country only have animals around them during apprehension, not during interrogation or in their cells. I know you are weak on subtle points like this, but try.



Again you skirt the point - simply admitting that killing detainees qualifies as torture would be a lot more graceful and hey, might open a whole new avenue in life where you're not a jerk. As for beheadings, gee, I must think they're great. What an idiot. But of course, we should always reduce our standards to that of terrorists - that will keep us admired and trusted in the world.

Let's just say that it's empirically highly unlikely that you're smarter. We can compare test scores if you wish, but I can suggest now that will be a fruitless road for you.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"

Well this thread certainly isn't going anywhere anymore.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

We had a problem in Sydney last week, a United Flight left sydney and had 2 RETURN because of a security scare. Ugly stuff but lets gtet uese to it cos ill be aorund............

"You have a remarkable habit of stepping all over yourself. Maybe if you'd concede a point here or there you wouldn't be considered such a jerk. "
- - You have a remarkable habit of missing the point and then claiming I meant something I didn't say. BTW, no one that matters to me thinks I'm a jerk, just a few idiots on some distant computer who make judgments based on their inability to comprehend things. Don't feel alone, I go over a lot of people's heads!

"Again you skirt the point - simply admitting that killing detainees qualifies as torture would be a lot more graceful"
- - That's the point you somehow keep missing. I'm a pretty good writer, even published a few things. How you can't follow "All they're entitled to is a smoke a blindfold and a bullet," just boggles my mind. Try reading this very slowly: T h e s e g u y s w e r e n o t r e g u l a r c o m b a t a n t s. T h a t m e a n s i t' s O K t o k i l l t h e m, DID YOU HEAR THAT?

"As for beheadings, gee, I must think they're great. What an idiot. But of course, we should always reduce our standards to that of terrorists - that will keep us admired and trusted in the world."
- - Why on earth would we care what terrorist think of us? Why is that even an issue? Hey, here's a thought (which has sailed over your head several times already) let's try to keep Americans alive, instead of worrying about bruising a few terrorists. Novel idea that, put Americans first!

"So being threatened and bitten by an animal isn't torture?"
- - Congratulations, you just brought your grade point from F to D! You finally got one right.

"And the last I checked, criminals in this country only have animals around them during apprehension, not during interrogation or in their cells. I know you are weak on subtle points like this, but try."
- - OK, let's see if you comprehend your own words: "criminals IN THIS COUNTRY" or is that too subtle for you.

"Let's just say that it's empirically highly unlikely that you're smarter. We can compare test scores if you wish, but I can suggest now that will be a fruitless road for you."
- - Yes, I can see that you're very impressed with yourself. However empirically unlikely it may seem to you, I've stated it as a fact, not conjecture. And you've pretty well proved my point.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...