Amen to everything you just said.

That said, on the route I typically ride, there are a few stop signs I routinely "blow through" only because there are NEVER any cars there. If, by chance, there are, I always stop. I know that this is still illegal, but I do it anyway. I don't know why, but I NEVER blow through a red light, even when no cars are present.

EDIT

Figured I needed to qualify something. By "blow through" I mean that I slow down to make sure no cars are present or approaching. I used the term to be consistent with the original post. I have never blown through a stop sign without slowing down considerably to make sure no cars were approaching.

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Steve Perkins

Paul, welcome to ST and I am looking forward to doing your race in a couple weeks for the first time, looks like great fun! How is life in the People Republic of Boulder? :)

Boulder is about as friendly as it gets to riders and your right it is a problem. I have seen mountain bike riders do it too and often putting themselves at great peril while riding 4 across on the side of a mountain highway. I think that it is the same people who don't believe those laws apply to them in a car either.

I think that cyclists bring on most of there own problems and those few cause all to be resented by the non riding public. The thread about Wisconsin is a great example of if they just showed some basic courtesy and followed the most basic of road rules everyone would have avoided the entire conversation.

here here Paul..seconding the motion for stupidity..and I live in Canada (the land of terminally nice people)..nothing gets under my skin near as much as seeing cyclists do those things..especially ones I know (rest assured they hear about it from me)...usually the next person that motorist sees on a bike is me..and by then they are so pissed with cyclists in general that they take that anger out on me (been hit so many times now I've lost count...and to date I can honestly say only of of them was my fault completely)...were it allowed to have an open season on these people..I'd surely be the first to apply for my tag

While I agree that we need to obey laws and be more courteous, I want to add that I think this behavior is not limited to cyclist and in fact stems from motorists. I live on a four-way stop sign and I can tell you that very few cars stop; a few don't even bother slowing down. And we've all been stuck behind the person driving below the speed limit with a train full of cars behind them that refuses to pull over - they just sick there and block the lane.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Paul,

I like you and how you think!

I too am amazed by how cyclist think they can "bend" the rules/laws to suit them and their "needs". They do need some tough love from the law and learn some respect and courtesy for everyone else who uses the road. Yes, that is why many think of them as spandex clad elitest snobs.

It amazes me how many otherwise good /strong cyclists whiz by a less capable cyclist with just a small margin of clearance and never ever say on your left or hold your line. If you can remember when you were just a beginning cyclist, how unnerving was that experience for you? Unfortunately for the novice cyclist, a few should panic steer to the left and take down a few of these "elitest" cyclists and maybe that would cause these cyclists who were above common courtesy and obeying the law to shape up a little.

Yes, you are right about a bunch of cyclists getting together and there develops a pack mentality. I've seen it many times. The enthusiasm for riding fast becomes unchecked and they forfeit any concern or interest for safety, for themselves, but especially for others.

Part of this is the logic that they are training and stopping will slow them down and their training will be diminished. In reality, stopping will give them an opportunity to accelerate and this will be a tremendous training opportunity that will probably be more beneficial than sitting in and drafting while they blow the light or the stop sign.

Yes, they set a terribly bad example for other cyclists and give cyclists in general a bad reputation.

I think only cycling clubs and cycling education can begin to change this and it will be a very long and hard task to accomplish. The club I belong to struggles with this even now. We claim to pride ourselves in riding safely and in the past we were often complimented for our safe riding habits and our courtesy to others. But no more! Now we're almost a black sheep of the cycling community and some within the club almost act as if that is something to be proud of? It is sad and reckless.

Just as cyclists, we hope that law enforcement that will treat bad and reckless drivers who endanger cyclists with a stern hand, I long for an educated and cycling friendly/sensitive policeman to get tough with reckless cyclists.

But you must recognize I am in the minority and looked upon as a whiner.

Things must change as they always do. We will either grow more together or further apart. Such is life. But I will continue to try to be a good and safe cyclist. Crashes are no fun. I know from personal experience.

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.

Every time this type of thread comes up there are posts by others who are offended and outraged.

Where are the posts by the rude peloton riders? Seriously, I see you all the time doing the garbage also. Tell us what is going through your brain. I really want to know.

Great post, I agree all of us that are horrified at this activity answer the post, how about hearing the culprits side of things?

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

On the general question of a single rider not stoping at a stop sign I have a couple three theories on why.

Compared to a car a cyclist must re-accelerate up to cruising speed using physical labor, whereas, a diriver only needs to move their foot over.

A driver may slow from 40 MPH to 10 MPH as they "roll" thru a stop sign. A cyclist slow from 15 MPH to 10 MPH and it looks as if the cyclist "blew" thru when actually they both went thru at the same rate.

Drivers are allowed on the freeway where they can drive a majority of their route without any stop signs, whereas, riders must take the backroads which have many more stop signs.

I ride my bike 45 miles, round trip, to work 2-3 times a week. This topic has come up before so I counted 55 stop sings along my route each way. I stop at exactly zero but will slow down some if there are other cars. But I slow down to time it so I do not have to clip out then roll thru when it is clear or my turn to proceed. I do stop at the red lights which number about 10 probably because these are busier intersections or have traffic when I am there. I do not cut anyone off and 90%+ of the time there are no cars at any of the stop signs.

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Willy in Pacifica

Will you go to court and fight your ticket if you get one for "blowing through" a stop sign?

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but I can deal with the angels, cause it ain’t me they’re here to claim. it’s a good night for blowing ‘em off til some other day

Jim.

They don't have time for us. We are the ones who offend them. We are the slow and whiney ass cyclists they despise.

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.

Willy,

The funny thing is, most of the cyclists who won't stop or be courteous when riding are doing so in part because they believe they must ride fast to have a good training ride. Just like the cyclist in a group who rolls off the front after pulling and then wants back into the paceline 5 or 6 back so he won't get dropped if the group splits. He's not strong enough to bridge a gap. Yet if he worked at bridging and letting the rest of the group move up, he would get a better, more intense, workout than if he just sucks the wheel up front. But you won't convince him of that. Or he's saving himself for the sprint later in the ride and he doesn't want to "waste" his energy until he sprints to win. then he will gloat about "winning" the sprint even though he never pulled at the front the whole ride, just rolled off the front every time he got up there.

Yes, stopping requires accelerating back up to speed each time. Duh, sounds like a workout to me. Pretty demanding one in fact. The strength developed from doing this might come in handy whenever a burst of speed was needed on a ride or in a race. But I guess they get those bursts of speed by racing for the refrigerator when they are off the bike. When they are on the bike, they can't be troubled with slowing down or letting you know they are going to overtake you.

Go figure.

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.

WHY DO SO MANY COMMUNITIES THINK THE MUTCD GUIDELINES FOR STOP SIGN USE DON'T APPLY TO THEM?

The vast majority of stop signs in my surrounding community do not follow federal guidelines, including:

STOP signs should not be used for speed control.

STOP signs should be installed in a manner that minimizes the numbers of vehicles having to stop. At intersections where a full stop is not necessary at all times,consideration should be given to using less restrictive measures such as YIELD signs

A STOP sign should not be installed on the major street unless justified by a traffic engineering study.

I've given public comment to our traffic safety committee that approves stop sign installations. They told me they don't approve 4-way stops to slow traffic. The next month they installed a 4-way stop to slow traffic.

MUTCD = Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices

(Nonetheless, I follow the same plan as steveperx and treat our stop signs as yields.)

I approach stop signs, intersections, red lights and all traffic signs the same way...in the safest, least obtrusive, and lawful manner possible...in that order.

If there are any cars around, I treat a stop sign in the same manner as if I am in a car...unless there is a nut on my rear that I feel might run over me if I came to a complete stop. I've never had a problem at an intersection that I couldn't avoid getting hit, yet, because safety is my number one concern. Often, that means running a red light or stop sign in order to get out of a bad situation. Although I'll assert my right of way (which CAN keep you from being hit) I'll never defend my right of way while on a bike, and I'll never take a regulatory sign's lawful meaning over safety of the moment. I don't care if I get a ticket for running a red light, as long as I run the red light to avoid a more dangerous situation.

Clogging up the roadways by riding more than 2 abreat is against the law in most municipalities that I know of, unless you have a parade permit or permission from the local authorities. This problem could be cleaned up very quickly by the local police. And it SHOULD be cleaned up, for the safety of all the bike riders. Making motorists angry by riding illegally or disruptively isn't a smart thing to do.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Mr Cline

I like you and how you think.

Pluto

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Pluto,

I think you are trying to pull my leg.

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.

The reason people run stop signs, run red lights, ride the wrong direction on the wrong side of the road, and ride more than single file blocking traffic is because they never get stopped for it. Aside from getting cursed at or run over, there is no penalty, and people, by nature, will not obey a rule for which there is no penalty.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)