Ithink he has a pretty good point. I dont think (dont really know) that the rule about not finishing with your team was well explained. In a normal stage he would have been given the same time if fell that close to the finish. My main complaint is that the winner of the tour may ride slower than second place. Hopefully they will modify the rules next year.

Hell, *I* knew the rules, and I'm not in the profession. If he and his DS didn't understand, and didn't communicate those rules to the whole team, then they aren't doing their jobs. The whole team should have waited for their leader.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Maybe if he didn't wear boots he wouldn't crash.

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Aeromon (Aerobic Monster) - Pokomon's evil endurance junkie twin

I agree that the team should have known, and that the they should have written. I'm a big fan and still didnt quite realize the whole indexing of time thing, I did know that they limited the lost time to 3 minutes. Also I didn't realize that they suspended the rule about crashing with 1 km to go. Heres something arcane - One of the Aussies sat up at the end and finished 3 seconds behind his team. He then got his time and not his teams, which actually ended up costing him a few minutes. Now all the riders have timing devices on their bikes and they are not all put on in the same place. Suppose he put his on his fromt fork and the teamate in front had his on the rear skewer, maybe he would have then been close enough to count as finishing with his team and not been penalized.

None the less, I still think Simoni has a bitch, his team directors do not. Also, I agree if Simoni protests he should lose - it was a rule, just a stupid one.

Finally, (I'm avoiding actually working) what was your opinion of LA not getting penalized for last year when he cut the course - its a rule that he clearly violated. He certainly could have walked his bike back to where he went off course and started again.

Hey guys,

just a question: is the Tour de France a hard race in front of the TV??

food for thought...

To me he may have violated the letter of the rule but not its intent. It was pretty obvious he took that route to avoid a wreck and not to shorten his route. Ultimately he gained no advantage from doing so which was what the Tour officials decided as well.

Too much food and not enough thought: care to explain?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

yep...

they know the rules, they made a mistake their bad...yet, you titled your post "what a cry-baby" when the guy has won the giro twice, is racing the tour and you are comfie watching it on your TV...

does it occur to you that you may get emotional at the end of a race when you are tired?

Gotta agree.

This was a stupid change of the rules imo. I realize what they're trying to do: make the race closer and more competitive for longer.

However, the idea that the winner of the Tour could actually ride slower than the guy in second or third place seems absolutely ludicrious. It just seems like they had the right intentions but didn't plan or think it all the way through.

I actually do find it hard, it is very difficult to convince my wife why I want to watch a bunch of skinny guys in spandex when I could be watching some reality show with half naked models running around.

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"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

It doesn't matter if you know the rules or not. If the team is going through the last corner and the last guy crashes, how on earth are you going to stop the riders in front before the line? Especially when the team car at that point is being guided in a different direction than the riders and the DS has to take care of things like not killing spectators by driving in to them. it's already hard enough driving the team car and watching the TV monitor in the finishing area without being on the intercom

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

hey gerard,

did you get to drive a car like that....I am always amazed that there are not more accidents between cars and riders in bike races.

The DS is actually doing the driving? I thought it was some mechanic/soigneur (sp?) and the DS sits in the passenger seat.

In most teams the DS drives. At CSC they have two DsS in the car, one drives and one takes notes. The mechanic always sits in the back, he needs to be able to jump out with wheels without first having to stop the car.

I was in the team car one day going up and down the Galibier, and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemies. It's one thing to go down a mountain on a bike at 100kmh, but to do it in a car is just not right. Especially when Riis is driving, shifting, watching the TV, talking on a cell phone and talking on the intercom at the same time. I am not kidding, that's what happens from time to time, steering wheel clamped betweenthe knees, cell in the left, intercom in the right, put it down for a sec to shift, back on the intercom, pointing something out on the TV screen, and all the while the tires are screaming as we barrel through the hairpins without any barrier separating us from sea level.

I would most definitely NEVER want to drive the team car.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

I thought that normally the DS drives, that's why they always pull up to riders on the riders left side when they need to chat (or at least they used to before race radios). The mechanic / soigneur cannot drive, as they need to be able to do other stuff while the car is in motion, like get wheels ready, hang out the back window for repairs, organise bottles, etc.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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Let's recap this thread. I posted my disgust that Simoni is now whining about how bad his morale is, and how he really doesn't like the Tour very much anyway. Sorry guy, that's your job. I said nothing about the obvious fact that he, and every single one of the Tour riders, is much tougher than me and anyone who has ever posted on this forum, Bjorn included. Someone responded about how silly and hard-to-understand the rules are (I agree), and I replied that everyone knew the rules, and should have planned accordingly. Gerard responded to me that despite knowing the rules, shit happens on the last turn. I agree, of course.

However, if you saw the finish for teams like Phonak and others, where some if not many of the riders are looking around after that last turn to confirm that everyone is still there, you'll see that some teams knew that someone could go down on that turn, and they needed to ensure the requisite riders were still there. I'm willing to bet cash dollars that US Postal planned to have Armstrong in or near the front at the finish to make sure he didn't get dropped, and I'm confident that many other teams did the same for their protected riders. You don't leave your GC man at the back like Saeco did. Period.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Looks like other Italians, Petachi and Cioppolini also dont like the Tour, they didnt start today. I thought Simoni would have a better tour after being embarrassed at the giro. Is it me or are Europeans more regional and nationalistic than Americans are? Spanish dont like to ride for french teams, Italians dont like to race in France, etc...

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Kestrel Syndicate
Macca Fan Club

True. Of course it's easier to check if everybody is there when you're only left with five like Phonak. Can't remember how many Saeco guys were still there. Plus, you also have to check in a split second who is down. If it is a domestique, you have to keep going as even one second at the finish can cost you a lot of time with the new rules (for example if slowing down drops you from 5th to 8th spot on the stage, you loose 30 seconds). So all in all it's pretty difficult, although not so much for Saeco which only has one leader. For a team like CSC, what do you do if Julich goes down, or Sastre, or Basso? To do it really well, the DS needs to have an idea of exactly where the team sits compared to the rest, and if slowing down is going to cost them spots or not. And then he has to decide who is worth sacrificing and who is not. That's tough to estimate when several teams are still on the road.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Petacchi and Cipollini both crashed pretty badly, and are legitimate withdrawals.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Knowing the new rules wouldn't the DS want the GC leaders to cross the line near the front of the paceline? Thereby ensuring that if he goes down everyone else will know about it and slow down accordingly. At least making sure he's the 5th guy across the line.

I don't buy the complaining about not knowing the rules. That's the team's job and particularly the DS to know that if the leader falls and doesn't cross the line with the top 5 he gets the time he posted and not the team's time.



Oh and my original question about who drives was related to thinking I saw Johan in the passenger seat of the Postal car. Doesn't it make sense to get someone else to drive? Or are they limited to a certain number of people in the car. Driver, DS, mechanic, that should fit right?