So Saddam used packaged farts to gas his own people?

I would call your method of debating "white noise." It just hums in the background but never really does anything but annoy.

For your info I'm proud to be an American and proud of our system and come from a long line of military men in my family. Me excluded.

Enough of who is more patriotic.

The US invaded Iraq to enforce UN sanctions. That would be allright if the Un had ACTUALLY APPROVED the invasion, which they didn't. Don't you read?

What do you know about the UN, why it exists and why it was created, how it helps manage wold affairs, and how we've slapped it for no good incoherent reason. Answer: nothing. You know nothing at all.

And people and countries can appeal to the UN. Many do.

Uhh, casey...he's correct. Or maybe you think that these resolutions just end...There are still resolutions active from the 1950s, and YES, they are still in force...and being enforced around the world.

It does justify the war in 2003, just as it justified the on-going no-fly zone and other measures meant to enforce the resolution's provisions. Your understanding and knowledge of international affairs and law are severely lacking.

There is certainly room to argue over some of the reasons stated for taking action. I will grant you that. But there is no refuting the fact that Resolution 678 was still in effect, and therefore enforceable, if it was deemed that Iraq was not in compliance. This is, in fact, why the UN hemmed and hawed over even bringing new resolutions to the table.

What do you know about the UN, why it exists and why it was created, how it helps manage wold affairs, and how we've slapped it for no good incoherent reason. Answer: nothing. You know nothing at all.




What is the purpose of the UN? HOw does it help manage world affairs?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

why the f..k in El Paso!?

can't he get a ranch somewhere else?

The purpose of the UN is to bring love and peace to everyone, end world hunger, and reduce the birth rates of the poorest of the poor. As well as to ensure that everyone owns a car, a TV, and has a credit card. They accomplish this mission by holding lavish parties in NYC.

That is what Rockefeller envisioned after WWII.

At least that's how I understand it.

Why do you ask?

OK ASSHOLE ( never said that to anyone but if you are going to post as a liar well here you go)

In response to

For your info I'm proud to be an American and proud of our system and come from a long line of military men in my family. Me excluded.

Enough of who is more patriotic.

Please pull up in my post what was said that claimed you were un-patriotic or un-american. Yeah I disagree with your views but please show me where I attacked your patriotism

to

The US invaded Iraq to enforce UN sanctions. That would be allright if the Un had ACTUALLY APPROVED the invasion, which they didn't. Don't you read

I do not beleive that the UN is the ultimate arbitrater of law in the world. Please show me in our constitutional ammendments where we agreed to this. ( I like the "don't you read comment,inspiring)

Now to

What do you know about the UN, why it exists and why it was created, how it helps manage wold affairs, and how we've slapped it for no good incoherent reason. Answer: nothing. You know nothing at all.
The first part of the sentance was a question. The last part was an opinion. Now to your answer of I no nothing..........Please give some evidence for your conclusion. And to the last part of " You know nothing at all" Please show in my previous post your conclusion or logic to that comment.

And finally to

and come from a long line of military men in my family. Me excluded.
Do not ride Daddy's coat tails I see the "me excluded"

Finally. I disagreed strongly to your opinions. You chose to do a litlle personal attack with no proof of your opinions of me ( such as I do not know anything)

Oh for your info...........I come from a long line of miltary family members including myself........Grandfather in Bellue Wood,Uncle at Chosen res Father at IWO Jima brother in Nam and myself In the USMC(and if you can understand this,in uniform my chest is not empty)

There is just a lot of support for the UN and no one can tell me who they plan on doing all these great things. They also can't explain why the UN is allowing the slaughter and rape of hundres of thousands of people in the Sudan and how Sudan is rich in oil and gold and those who are slaughtering the black pople in Sudan are tied to the UN. No can tell me other unicef what they have done.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Because the UN is a corrupt organization made up of a lot of little corrupt countries.

Best thing about the UN is its impotence. Let's hope it stays that way.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You're right, the UN has let a lot of bad things happen all around the world. Not justifying their actions but clearly they are impotent without US support, and support from the other permanent members. Even though Unicef and other UN relief organizations help and feed hundreds of thousands of people in a lot of countries every day I just don't see how they could possibly manage all the conflict and suffering that goes on around the world. It's like putting a finger in the dike of a bursting dam. But somebody has to try.

I think where the UN does add value is in keeping all the relief out of the political arena. Yes, the UN itself is very political but at least it's somewhat immune from the politics of the member countries that suppor it.

So you believe that the US is the ultimate arbitrater of law in the world?

Re-read your original post and tell me if you didn't start the personal attacks.

I truly apologize for calling you an asshole...........damn you pissed me off. People post shit they would never say face to face and that bothers me. I am not talking about myself and I would hope you would have said the same as your post to my face

So you believe that the US is the ultimate arbitrater of law in the world? No, but I believe the US has complete authority to defend itself unilaterally. All this talk about whether or not the UN authorized military action or not is ridiculous. The question is, was there a need to go to war or not? Not, did we have the UN's permission?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Defend ourselves against what? Agree on the rights of a sovereign nation to defend itself but what where we defending ourselves when we invaded Iraq?

tritnow, I'm not saying that we were defending ourselves against a real threat. I oppose the war vigorously. I'm saying that the UN's standing on the issue is meaningless, and we should stop yakking about that. I don't give a damn what the UN thinks about it.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

<snip>Plus the UN does not try/convict "war criminals".

The organization that tries and convicts war criminals is the War Tribunal in the Hague, Netherlands.<snip>

The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (located in the Hague) was established by the UN. The following year an International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda was established by the UN.

For information about INCTY see: http://www.un.org/icty/glance/index.htm

"The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) was established by Security Council resolution 827."

"The Tribunal’s authority is to prosecute and try four clusters of offences:

Grave breaches of the 1949 Geneva Conventions.
Violations of the laws or customs of war.
Genocide.
Crimes against humanity. "

Regarding Rwanda, see http://www.ictr.org/default.htm

"Recognizing that serious violations of humanitarian law were committed in Rwanda, and acting under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter, the Security Council created the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) by resolution 955 of 8 November 1994."

The legal history and theory of war crimes prosecution is quite interesting, dating to attempts post-WWI to make war "illegal" and the prosecution of Nazi officials at Nuremberg.



Jeremy

The Germans didn't bother us in the early 1940's. Some people will never learn. Maybe Kerry can save our pour misguided nation!

It's a moot point anyway. International law gives the US the right to protect itself from imminent threat. We tried through the UN to diplomatically come to an agreement on the issue but nothing came of it but more inspections. Since we do not allow the UN or any of its members dictate our foreign policy we...under our rights to international law...took care of the threat.

How do you define imminent threat? What proof do YOU have that there wasn't an imminent threat? Since tons of WMD cannot be accounted for...where did it go? Since plans and delivery vehicles for WMD still existed in Iraq after it was told to destroy them were found logic dictates and raises suspicion that they were a threat to us. It is known that Hussein threatened the USA and its allies. His past provides evidence that he will use any opportunity to attack the US and its allies with anything in his arsenal. Motive is certainly present in this case and our actions justified based on the evidence presented by the Bush administration.

I agree to disagree.

I tend not to argue against anyone labeling them as a liberal or conservative.

I actually voted for McCain in the primary and then Bush in the presidential. I agree that intelligence gathering and attacking the monetary resources of terrorist cells will be necessary to "win" this war but that is only one of the many ways this war will be fought. Terrorist nations like Iraq under Saddam will need to be fought in a more conventional sense. Nations like N. Korea under their dictator will need a different approach due to their possession of nuclear weapons as well as their ties to China. On our own land homeland security will be used to fight this war and immigration policies will need to be toughened to protect our country internally. Cooperation with our allies is paramount but gets complicated due to differing views on how to fight this war and conflicts of interest. For example, France has extensive economic ties to Iraq so their view on how to handle this threat was different than ours. Some nations choose to ignore the threat or accept the fact that terrorism will continue and accept the collateral damage associated with doing nothing.

We on the other hand cannot afford to ignore the threat. How this war is fought is the million dollar question. The only requirement I look for in a leader is to continue the fight and not waiver once a decision is made.

I cannot say I am a big fan of GWB. However, I admire the fact that he is sticking to his plan of carrying this war to the end. In fact, how Iraq develops until November will determine whether or not he will serve a second term. Unfortunately our political process causes many candidates to not even bother with running for the job. For example, I would love to see C. Powell run for the job and deep down I hear he wants to...but does not want to put himself through the ringer of the process nor does his wife support his running.

How do we know Iraq had WMDs????


From Bill Hicks RIP ......strangley this was about Bush 1 but translates well.



(excuse the language, its Bill's not mine....and I hate editing works of genius)

They're arming the fucking world man. You know we armed Iraq. I wondered about that too, you know during the Persian Gulf war those intelligence reports would come out:

"Iraq: incredible weapons - incredible weapons."

How do you know that?

"Uh, well... We looked at the receipts Haar."

"Ah but as soon as that cheque clears, we're going in."

"What time's the bank open? 8? We're going in at 9."

I'm so sick of arming the world and then sending troops over to destroy the fucking arms, you know what I mean? We keep arming these little countries then we go and blow the shit out of em. We're like the bullies of the world, you know. We're like Jack Palance in the movie Shane... Throwing the pistol at the sheep herder's feet:

"Pick it up."

"I don't wanna pick it up mister, you'll shoot me."

"Pick up the gun".

"Mister, I don't want no trouble huh. I just came down town here to get some hard rock candy for my kids, some gingham for my wife. I don't even know what gingham is, but she goes through about 10 rolls a week of that stuff. I ain't looking for no trouble mister."

"Pick up the gun."

Boom bom

"You all saw him. He had a gun."

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Does Bill have that transcript in French?

During the Iran-Iraq war, France was soon supplying Iraq with top level military hardware of its own.

All told, France sold some $25bn-worth of weaponry to Iraq before the UN embargo was imposed after the Gulf War.

I said Funny man.. Whoa whoa. Do I beleive the U.S. is the ultimate arbitrator in the world.........No. You said that the U.N decided law,my response was we did not as citizens agree to that. That we ( the US, does not recognize another above us)do not submit to another political authority does not mean that we are therefore above others.

Please.........Please though either refute the other claims in your post about me or retract. If what you said was true,point out for all to see. Or ?
I guess thats asking to much though. As you said I know nothing about the U.N.or why it was started or its purpose because of your phsycic abilities are unsurpassed