Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

swim question for the fish and physiologists
Quote | Reply
Okay, here is my question. BTW, this isn't a woe is me type post, just looking for some thoughts from the more experienced swimmers and possibly coaches. Here goes.

First the background...first year of medical school I herniated a thoracic disc...very rare injury, but resulted in cord compression on the right. The immediate result was that I couldn't sit in a chair for about 6 months for for more than 2-3 minutes (unless it was a recliner). Spent the last 3/4 of my second year either standing or lying in the back of class. Spent the next 4-5 years learning what did and didn't cause me to become temporarily incapacitated when I would have a "flare-up" . Bottom line, reached a very tolerable level of mildly annoying discomfort after about 6 years that only acts up now when I quit working out...however the pain seemed to migrate north and began to affect my shoulders after several years..

Jump ahead . I started doing triathlon in 1999....bike okay, run okay,,....swim like crap.....have had people look at my position and my body position is not that bad (according to at least two coaches)....but I am still reaaaalllly reallly slow....pain in shoulders annoying, plus I seem to be prone to shoulder injury swimming....particularly if I pull hard...

Jump ahead further to now....finally went to see a sports MD where I work....I think the first words out were "Good Grief!"....apparently (and I can only surmise the cause, but it must somehow be related to my comensating for the back injury), my rhomboids, levator and serratus have atrophied or weakened to the point where I have winged scapulas and profound muscle weakness. The left side barely has any function. when doing a rear lift (like the last half of a freestyle stroke) I could only lift about 5 pounds max and only about 2 pounds when trying to do repititions).



So my question is this...once I get this rehabbed (I have been advised against swimming until it is fixed due to danger of messing my shoulders up, particularly the rtc) and get normal strength, would/should/could this affect my swim times assuming I have decent body position? Or will it at least intheory have little effect?

Sorry for such a long post



Lance



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My rhomboids are usually pretty sore/tired after a hard swim, so I guess I'm using them a lot. Seems very reasonable to expect that once you regain your shoulder/back strength you will improve your swim times.

My problem is that I have no good excuse for my slow swim times ;)

_______________________________________________
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've got that winged scapula thing too. I remember noticing it (both sides) when I was a kid, so I guess it's congenital with me.

I had never thought of it as an excuse for my crappy swimming though!
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [jhc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the reply. I know the general thought is that weight training/strength doesn't affect swim speed, but it would seem that all the technique in the world would be of limited use if there was nothing driving the arms to move. Just hope that I haven't gone too long such that the damage is irreversible



Lance "It's going to be a long year" Faler



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I know the general thought is that weight training/strength doesn't affect swim speed..... When did this become the general thought? Now, before March of this year, I had not been to a swim practice in more than 18 years, but we certainly lifted weights when I swam competitively, and I don't see how it would not help. Things certainly do change over time. I think they even do flip turns in backstroke now. But, the stronger you are, all other things being equal, the faster you should swim.
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rehabbing those muscles should help. A few years ago I had a nasty MTB Wreck. I busted my collarbone and separated my shoulder. When I started swimming it was painful. I also experienced shoulder discomfort while driving. After a few weeks of rehab, and continuing the exercises it is pretty much gone (the discomfort, not my shoulder). It still gets fatigued, but it is better.



good luck and do the exercises!



el
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I had the same exact thing. My entire scapula would move when I moved my arms.

The whole flying scapula thing.

Other than swimming without pain it didn't make a difference. But mind you swimming without pain allowed me to workout harder and more often.

End result is that you will be better but it won't be immediate.

Now go back and do some seated rows - I'd need a *microscope* to see your traps they are so small!

And, to let you know it came around rather quickly once I knew what to do. But I still have to work at it.
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [CTL] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe that was a mis-statement. When I said general thought, I was just stating what I have read by people more experienced than me with swimming (ie, that lifting a lot of weights doesn't translate into fast swimming and that technique is far more important...assuming you have normal muscular function I would guess however.) I am definitely in the rank amateur status when it comes to all things swimming.



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would agree that technique and form are more important than strength when it comes to swimming. Also, I would certainly agree that being strong or weak may have very little correlation to how fast you swim. This will date me a little, but I think I remember reading about how Tracy Caulkins was never strong in the weight room. Obviously, she was a great swimmer. I was also posting partly because I was curious. It has been 18 years since I swam seriously and don't really consider myself swimming seriously now, but still find the science of swimming very interesting.
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [CTL] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the reply. I am curious as to what happens after rehab. I know that my race averages are around 2 min. per hundred in races longer than 600 meters. In practice I fatigue to the point of what literally feels like a crawl with anything over 200m regardless of cardiovascular effort or amount of training...arms just turn to lead. Start out in the 1:20 min/100 range and drop to 2:15+ after 300m. Guess only time will tell.



Lance



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I know the general thought is that weight training/strength doesn't affect swim speed


I think that even Ric Stern (who does not believe in weight training for most endurance athletes) would make an exception in your case - sounds like your muscular atrophy would count as a "functional disability".

I'm not an expert by any means but I doubt that your problem is irreversible.

_______________________________________________
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dr. Doom,

Where are you located in the country? I know I am supporting my own subspecialty, but have you considered seeing a Physiatrist/PM&R guy? They may be able to prescribe a more specific regimen of rehab for your particular case.

Philbert

Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Philbert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Philbert,

I am located in south Mississippi. Actually that is exactly who I am seeing. I read MRI for an orthopedic clinic here and they have an in house physiatrist. She is the one who actually diagnosed me and sent me to her PT for treatment. Just started this week, so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks,

Lance



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know! I know! Everyone poo-poo's TI (total immersion), but it has helped me. My speed is very little different, but the effort to achieve it is way better, and my chronically sore left shoulder doesn't hurt. AND I am doing way less swim practice and effort, so I have way more time to devote to my really weak leg--cycling. since, I'm not a sprint swimmer, the slight loss in full speed is of no concern. while rehabbing your shoulder you can start the drilling. My power now comes from my hips--not my shoulders and lats.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: swim question for the fish and physiologists [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Dr Doom,

I am both a fish and a physiologist and there is no question that a proper rehab program will enable you to swim faster. After you have developed a better musculature you will then be able to focus on technique, then endurance and speed. Also as a former swimmer and coach, weight training seems to help some and not others, but this is just generally speaking and doesn't so much apply to a case like yours.
Quote Reply