Just wait to the all the rural rednecks who at least passively support this kind of stuff realize they're going to take away their beer, pot and porn if they get their way.

I currently listening to the 2nd book in the Century Trilogy by Ken Follett. The first covered WWI, and the seconds starts off with the run up to WWII. It has a very insightful view of the rise of fascism in Germany and how that played out in other countries.
Right now the UK is in upheaval with fascism starting to take root. The conservative political class embracing Hitler's rhetoric and tactics. The infiltration of the police, conservative print media demonizing communists and socialists, and the thuggery tactics of brown shirt imitators. Some definite similarities to what is going on now.

I'll be there in a month. Which of Hitler's tactics do i need to be on the look out for? I'm no fan of the Conservative government in the UK but i think there is a significant gap between Rishi and co and Hitler.

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And the question remains. where were you.

By "right now" I'm referring to my current spot in the book. The only thing you need to do on your upcoming trip is "mind the gap" and "Keep Calm".
And the "similarities going on now" are more with what I saw the past 6 years happen here in the US. Rise of nationalism/populism, antisemitism/xenophobia and this being amplified in the media, along with the rise of right wing groups.

It seems uncertain what Western Europe will look like in 20 years. German postwar prosperity seems to have been based on them being an export economy. They have hitched their wagon to some extent to
China which does not seem like it is going to work out. Protectionism in general is on the rise. The loss of cheap Russian gas will be a limiter.

Dutch prosperity also an export economy in this case agricultural exports. In terms of dollar value number two in the world. But now they are being told they have to severely curtail their carbon outputs, can they still prosper? Dutch natural gas production is also gone.

The French have their own problems. The Right wing of French Politics is strong enough that good relations with their Islamic population are difficult. Macron has to for instance legislate no hijab rules for school children etc. One also has the disaffected rural folks who are losing their jobs and the rural associations that provided community such as unions, cultural clubs and churches are largely gone. So they are looking to gov't for more support but gov't likely doesn't have the money. Retirement being postponed to 64! is a hot button issue. And they are not shy of violent social protest. Remember the yellow jacket protests. That has not been resolved.

Britain needs no mention it seems quite disordered with the left in the last ten years seeming to be dominated by fringe actors. And all the problems of the disordered right culminating with Boris the buffoon.

The Scandinavian countries seem to have it mainly together but they are mainly homogenous tradition formed communities. Sweden showed some cracks during covid and when I was in Finland there were complaints by parents about kids not wanting to work hard as they did coming up. When I was in Finland their seemed to be a bit of Lutheran revival going on as a response to social problems created by family breakdown etc. Not that that would look anything like American Nationalism.

Can the center hold is an interesting question.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Just to be clear, what I'm saying is that in 20 years the religious environment of the US will look like today's much more secular western Europe.

I'll take that bet. (betting against your prediction).

Yes, total religiosity may be slowly declining. But what's left seems deeply, deeply entrenched and fervent. And still very large in total number.

We'll see. Have to get some data on Europe today and still be around here in 20 years :

From Wiki:
The countries where the most people reported no religious belief were France (40%), Czech Republic (37%), Sweden (34%), Netherlands (30%), Estonia (29%), Germany (27%), Belgium (27%) and Slovenia (26%). The most religious societies are those in Romania with 1% non-believers and Malta with 2% non-believers.

The percentage of Americans without religious affiliation, often labeled as "Nones", is around 20-29% – with people who identify as "nothing in particular" accounting for the growing majority of this demographic and while both atheists and agnostics accounting for the relatively unchanged minority of this demographic.

Not sure these are the same thing but it's what I found.

As they say though, "hope for the best, plan for the worst." Right now in the GQP, we are seeing what is approaching the worst.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

I remember this thread well.

Global Nationalist movement is by no means dead, nor will it ever be. Nationalism, in the form of Brexit, has not worked out well for Great Britain. Is there a cycle here such that GB will go back to the union? In Hungary christian nationalism conservatism is well entrenched under the authoritarian leadership of Orban. Will it die when Orban dies? Jewish National authoritarianism in Israel under Bibi''s coalition of right and ultra right wings looks to be in ascent. I wonder if current protests there about judiciary takeover will grow and cause the cycle to go back to the left and democratically install a less national authoritarian government. Putin and Russia can be said to be near a tipping point with change near certain (or at least hoped for) upon his death.

Our Nationalism has always run strong and mostly bipartisan, albeit with more fervor always residing along the right edge. This Christian association aspect to our nationalism does trouble as it serves to buttress further conflict. Conflict as marked with winners and losers in our current Culture Wars. As for adopting an authoritarian bent to MGT's Christian Nationalism, I would make the case that to the true believers, the man/god /prophet Jesus represents the ultimate authoritarian, as we have been told that he is the light and the way. Wasn't Trump professed to be the chosen one?

As you point out, the poll numbers suck for followers of Christian Values. Not so long ago we struggled to define who was on board in support of traditional American Values. That struggle now appears to have bolted past America and is headlong into defining Christian Values as our values for a country. Hopefully we (all of us) will hold on to democracy and not accept an authoritarian representative of Jesus' Christianity as our chosen one to lead. Maybe we can end our nightmare with laws and governance in consonance with the words of the prophets from all the Gods.

First off, I don't think books and trump supporters go in the same sentence. Second, i don't think there is anything to explain why anyone would still support that moron.

The youngs aren't though:

20 years might be too fast.

Lets take France. As of 2019, 21% of French were straight up Atheist. 19% were agnostic/non believer. So 40%.
In the 2010 Eurobarometer survey, 40% of French didn't believe in any sort of god/spirit/life force/midichlorians/higher power. No change in 9 years
In the 2005 Eurobarometer survey, 33% of French said the same. 14 years to make a 7% change.

The Netherlands has been a little faster.
2005 survey? 27% didn't believe
2010? 30%
2019? 11% atheist and 41% agnostic for a total of 52%. Only the Czech are less religious.
14 years to make a 25% change

The US has more research I can find easy.
In 1990, 8% were atheist or agnostic.
In 2008, 15%
Another 2008, this time Pew, had 16.1% "unaffiliated"

A lot of that - both the slow uptake of irreligious in the US and the relative lack of irreligious - IMHO has to do with the distrust of irreligious. Americans hate us more than they hate Muslims!

If we're as fast as NL, which we won't be, it'll be 20 years. If we're as fast as France, 70 years.

I assume the “us” in your sentence above is a pronoun for Christian Nationalists?

Christian Nationalists present a more serious threat to America than Muslims. Of course we feel some strong feelings against the jerks who want to force us to live under the rules of their cockamamie religion. By the way, I like mellow Muslims and non-insane Christians.