I was in Jasper, Arkansas from Wed night through yesterday night and didn’t have swim access. Thurs was a rest day, Fri I walked 4.75 mi before my brother’s 24 hour climbing competition. Rest of Fri and some of sat had some walking but that was it as I was awake from 5 am fri to noon sat. Back today with 2000 scm easy free-ish, started w easier intervals just in case I had forgotten how to swim. 65 min stairmaster after.

7 x 100 fist on 1:50
12 x 100 swim on 1:40
100 fist
100 kick cd

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

im feeling tired thinking about that

me and a friend gave it some LCM juice today - wont be feeling good after lunch today

20x50 as 4 on 40,1 easy 4 on 40 1 easy 9 on 40 1 easy
200 200 150 150 100 100 50 50 as 130 base minus 10 seconds - actually just managed to do the last 2 x 50s

a bit of other easy mixing in through and then 3-2-2-1-100 on 120 base (355,234,232,114,115)

Got in a good ride early, then took some buddies to noon swim. Felt pretty good after about 10 minutes, had an overall good day;

100/200/300/200/100 up buoy@1;40/down pull@1;30-(1;27/2;48/4;06/3;48/2;27/1;08)300frog(5;40)
8x100@2;00. odds IM/evens pull--IM(1;25/20/20/21pulls(1;13/10/10/09)
2x100 frog(1;52/51)
2500SCY in 45 minutes

long course 1 hour 55 mins

400 easy 2x200 FRIM (free not fly) 400 easy 200 FRIM

3 rounds of 4x50 (IM order by round) hard on 55 400 on 540 steady. (hold 528-529 for 400s, 36s for fly, 37-38 for back, 41-42 for breast)

descending straight through 3x400 on 6, 3x300 on 420, 3x200 on 250, 3x100 on 120 (114s on last 3). weird but felt garbage just holding 129 pace for the 4s and barely making the time, and then only really started to feel good from the 200s onwards. rhythm important.

700 mix of slow floating easy no pressure

2 x crossing of Whonnock Lake, here in BC.

Out was at 1/2 race pace - 700 M in 14:41

Back was foggy, couldn't see the shore for 10 minutes, so I sighted a lot more, hoping to see it.

Return in 15;20.

Getting colder in the lakes up here, hoping for a couple more weeks.

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Arena cobra have great anti fog. Not sponsored. I’m just a big fan of the goggle as are many

Event report from the climbing is in the LR if you are interested
45.7 mi bike yesterday
Today 2700 scm free ish (plus 500 kick), 35 min stairmaster, quick work meeting, 55 min stairmaster

6 x 100 fist on 1:50
50 kick
5 x 100 on 1:45 swim
50 kick
4 x 100 on 1:45 fist
50 kick
3 x 100 on 1:40 swim
50 kick
2 x 100 on 1:40 fist
50 kick
1 x 100 on 1:35 swim
50 kick
1 x 100 on 1:35 swim
50 kick
2 x 100 on 1:40 fist
50 kick
3 x 100 on 1:40 swim
100 kick

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Ha! Goggles were fine.
It was Mother Nature pulling down the fog curtain on us.
And when I say us, I mean even the eagles, that often check me out as I cross the lake had to use RADAR this afternoon.

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

that is some creepy stuff! did you swim solo out in a foggy lake? if so you are way braver than me

mix bag of strokes today in the long course

5x200 FRIM 600 worth of easy
3 rounds of 4 x 1 on 125 (hold 13-14s), 2x50 on 1 (as few breaths as possible. did 3 on first lap, 2 on second lap)
1.0 mix of easy slow free
5-4-3-2-1 as 5 back 4 im 3 back 2 im 1 back on 130 cycle (720,550,422,245,120)
700 mix of easy
200 (just go faster than 2im above) - 240
rest easy to make it up to 7k total


do you all breath on your first stroke off the wall? I usually do and sometimes double breath into the wall (treason ) but I may start experimenting with not breathing on the first stroke off the wall to try to get into my rhythm quicker coming off the push.

I miss that Palmdale pool!

I got back in the pool last night, first swim in 16 weeks (it was not a good summer). Felt good. I'll do it again tomorrow.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

It is a great pool, except when it is boiling human lobsters!!! Here anytime you want to stop in, maybe time for another womens camp..

Started resting yesterday, first day off in about 6 weeks. Just pool swim for today, sliding into some sort of taper, and overall body rejuvenation from all the new hard stuff I threw at it lately:

6x(200buoy or pull@3;10/100breast or back@2;00)buoys(2;54/47/43)pulls(2;36/34/33)breast(1;38/35/32)back(1;30/29/27)
2x(2x100frog@2;00/50buoy/50swim@1;00)frogs(1;51 to 1;49's)buoy(40/38+)swims(35/34)
200p easy(2;39)
4x50dolphin@1;20(65/64/62/58)100SD
2900SCY in 55 minutes

Thurs 38 mi bike in both riding for riding and commuting.
1500 scm free ish today and 100 kick; 80 min stairmaster; 1 mi walk + 3.5 mi bike (these two errands/commuting)

6 x 100 on 1:45 fist drill
50 kick
600 swim build to moderate 9:23
50 kick
300 easy

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

4000 scm free-ish, 500+ scm kick
3 mi walk run (most walk), first time trying that in over a month, hoping Achilles is ok later - was fine during

5 x 100 on 1:45 fist drill
50 kick
500 swim
50 kick
4 x 100 on 1:45 fist
50 kick
400 swim
50 kick
3 x 100 on 1:45 fist (fairly sure I did 3. Might have been two. Unusual instance of spacing out and forgetting the time at the first push off)
50 kick
300 swim
50 kick
2 x 100 on 1:45 fist
50 kick
200 swim
50 kick
100 fist, 50 kick, 100 swim, 50 kick
500 swim
50 kick
5 x 100 on 1:45 fist
50 kick
100 swim (just in case I had only done 2 in the 3 set, see above)
100 kick

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Sunday - 55 mi bike
Today - 4000 scm free-ish, at least 400 kick, 2 mi walk run. Felt tired in the pool

10 x 100 on 1:50 fist
50 kick
3 x 300 on 5:15 desc 441, 434, 427
50 kick
4 x 200 on 330 desc 259, 257, 256, 255
50 kick
700 swim
50 kick
6 x 100 on 1:45 fist
Kicked a bit

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

600 backstroke slow
400 easy free
2x200 FRIM
100 easy

5 rounds of 300, 50 hard, 50 fewer breaths (time cycle 415, 55,55). Desc rounds 1-5 on 3s as 358,354,350,348,340. 50 hard around 34-35s.

500 backstroke slow
50-100-150-200 backstroke on 130 cycle plus 5.
2x200 FRIM 100 easy

4x2 4 x 150 4x100 4x50 on 130 base minus 5

100 easy

If I'm interpreting correctly, that was 7000 scm??? What does FRIM mean??? In any case, that was a big workout, espec since you did not any kicking. IMO, kicking 1000-2000 gets you to higher yardage/meterage with less drain on the shoulders and upper body. On the down side, it def makes for a longer workout.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

7 on the dot

LCM is my local pool so today was LCM. in Australia basically all the pools are set to long course all year round. rarely they will set them to SCM, sometimes the outside lanes for classes / learn to swim. The only reason people swim SCM here is if the pool is SCM, as I think it maybe different in the States where you have long course and then shourt course seasons and the pools get adjusted accordingly.

FRIM is IM but you do free instead of fly :) that is what I have read bowman and gregg troy set to keep the IM and stroke switches up when the team were fatigued sometimes (or do a 4IM with the first 50 free and last 50 fly of the first 100)

yes kicking definitely can get some low pressure yardage in on the shoulders but I am very bad at kicking, I have to carry my fins / board to the pool in my bag and I cycle there so I just like to keep it easy and just take goggles and maybe paddles. today i just swam with the hands and feet I was born with

i am feeling it after lunch that's for sure... slower one tomorrow

Well, 7000 LCM is one looong workout, prob eqv of 8000 yds effort-wise. While you are correct that we in the U.S. do have separate long course and short course seasons, we just do not have that many 50 meter pools and so many swimmers just don't swim LCM very often. Also, LC season is only 4-5 months vs 7-8 for sc.
So, how many km are you swimming per week??? Also, how long is your bike commute to the pool, and do you bike extra on top of the commute??? And do you run???

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

reminds me of a joke post thailand ultras made which is that his town in australia is shit because it doesnt have a 50m outdoor. he then shows an arial photo of an outdoor 25m pool less than 1km from beautiful blue coastline and a surf beach... lol

some of the aussies on this forum would know more than me on this topic but it was a big part of town planning and community spirit to give towns 50m pools at differnt points. you can go to the most random semi rural / outback towns and they have magic 50m outdoor pools.

So, how many km are you swimming per week??? swimming more this year than other years. last year high teens low 20s. this year all above 30 when not travelling or sick. wanted to get fit enough to hold sub 5 minute 400m LCM at the end of 3-4k sets, first goal was in the draft, and then out of the draft, and not get dropped by people who love to shit talk and go a bit too far and it is sometimes mean.

how much are you swimming atm?

Also, how long is your bike commute to the pool, and do you bike extra on top of the commute??? And do you run??? i would dare say my bike commute involves less milage than my swimming which is a terrific ratio if u ask me. i like biking a lot but just going easy and do many of my jobs / errands on it. i did road racing and MTB races when I was a teen ager and i now occasionally go for a light spin if I feel restless throughout the day. i do not run at the moment but did run a bit in university for curing hangovers. cycling seems very different now to back then. much more expensive and while still quite eccentric quite focussed on fashion and nice bikes. the bikes we used to ride were just entry level pigs that we thrashed around

6.5 lcm

4 x (400 back, 400 IM, 200 IM) first round slow very slow, second round slow paddles, 3rd and 4th rounds swim low medium effort
free - 500 4x200 4 x 150 4x100 4x50

YTD I have gone 1,125,000 yd or about 1012.5 km, which is about 25.3 km/wk, but all of my meters are either scy or scm so not as hard as your LCM. I do run a bit with YTD at 731 miles or 18.3 mi/wk, or 29.4 km/wk. Also, i have done about 140 hr of strength training, or about 3.5 hr/wk.

It is just amazing to me that you Aussies have so many 50m pools!!! You all take swimming much more seriously than the U.S. does; I mean, sure there are about 400,000 registered USA Swimming members, and prob 4 million summer league swimmers, but that is out of the age 5-24 population of around 80 million. Swimming is still a "minor sport" in the U.S. and prob always will be. Oh well...

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

sounds like you have a nice mix. do you do body weight stuff or more weights for the strength training? I am a bit sporadic with that type of training at the moment

i would not classify swimming as a minor sport in AUS but it is also not the same level of popularity as a couple of distinctly commonwealth and Australian sports like cricket, soccer (football), rugby league and rugby union and australian rules football (AFL). the rugby and afl games use the diamond shape ball you guys have in the states for NFL but it is a slightly different shape and various tackling and kicking maneuvers. They are doing the season opener of the rugby league in vegas next year which is hilarious! i think swimming is quite well loved by australians and many people like water based activity, whether swimming, aqua aerobics, surfing and body boarding, stand up paddle, boating, fishing, body surfing, etc

I've also been sporadic over the years with the strength training over the years but I took it up in earnest during the pandemic when all the pools were closed, so have been doing it consistently for about 3.5 yrs now. Can't say it really helps my swimming much but I keep doing just to show the meathead weight lifters at the gym that, despite being relatively thin (6'2" and 175 lbs, or 1.88 m and about 80 kg), I can lift a fair amount for my size. I alternate days of pullups (50-100), dips (50-100), and crunches (400-600), with days of 3 sets of 10 each of lat pulldowns, seated rows, chest press, curls, and triceps pressdowns.

Regarding swimming popularity, I've seen pictures of top Aussie swimmers on billboards in the cities, which is something you never see in the U.S., at least AFAIK. Phelps might have been on a billboard or two in his hometown of Baltimore, MD, back in his heyday, but I can't say for sure.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

that's a nice combo. can't joke around when you are lifting body weight - you can either do the movements or not. really good for your core as well. i don't know it helped my swimming that much but I felt better sitting and standing up and more centred / stable.

they do get on ads that show between main shows. Emma and Ariane have been in ads that I have seen on prime tv slots

I'm a big Ariarne fan; it is/was about time Ledecky got some competition in the 400 m free. :)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Ariane commented on our broadcast the short course worlds last year in Melbourne. She will be famous after swimming too

Very well spoken unlike some others who you think have only done swimming as they are not so strong on the books

Out of interest, do you lot breath to your dominant side (hand you would throw a ball) or opposite side?

Yes, it is good to practice breathing on both side and do some 3 stroke. But we all have a default side that we go to when the going gets hard.

In race & hard workouts. I have always breathed to the left. But recently been playing around and actual think I am faster breathing to the right even though it feels less a little less natural the moment.

I am left-handed and would always kick or throw on left side of my body. In the gym left side is a little strong. So does make some sense that it might make sense to have the clean arm pull on that side.

Just interested if other have thought about this.

---

Full-time Engineer / Part-time Pro Triathlete
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/benwgoodfellow/
Strava - https://www.strava.com/athletes/3085032
Website - https://benwgoodfellow.wixsite.com/bengoodfellow

Was she also swimming in the meet???

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Yesterday 34.2 mi bike
Today 2200 scm, 2.5 mi walk run, 28 min stairmaster

12 x100 on 1:45 fist
50 kick
1000 swim

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

yes, L is dominant for me and I am trying to get the R to feel more natural

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I had bi-lateral breathing beat into me as a kid. It requires thinking to NOT do it. I don't think one side feels better than the other though.

Nope she was the hostess with the mostess. I’m trying not come across as weird or creepy but she was incredible. I doubt she will be in swimming when she retires she has many talents and seems smart too

6.9 lcm
5544332211 on 130 base easy
2 rounds of 4x50 speed and descending segments. First round fly. Second round breast

10x200 medley on 310 hold 3 and then lift to 255 and 250 on last one working the back and breast portion and laying off the free

222 151515 111 5550 on 130 base. Hold 13-14s on 100s the rest easy swimming

Bike fitness must surely be on the up for you ? Do you live in flat lands or anywhere you can do some time trials on climbs to see how you are going?

Out of interest, do you lot breath to your dominant side (hand you would throw a ball) or opposite side?
Yes i breath to the right and basically always breath to the left unless I am taking a breath before or after a tumble turn. i write with my left hand but i kick and throw with my right hand.


In race & hard workouts. I have always breathed to the left. But recently been playing around and actual think I am faster breathing to the right even though it feels less a little less natural the moment.
i have read about others having this experience. guess depends how often you have swum and what level you are at and what works for you. if you are relatively new to swimming you could break through and swim better breathing to other side.

so you should do a test - 2 rounds of 5x100 on 20 seconds rest doing your best average speed. first round left breathe. second round right breathe.

I am left-handed and would always kick or throw on left side of my body. In the gym left side is a little strong. So does make some sense that it might make sense to have the clean arm pull on that side.
i suspect my right side is stronger but my left shoulder is much more flexible. i can touch my hands together behind my back (where you put your right hand over your right shoulder and your left hand on your waist and then snake up your back) but I cannot do the other side (right hand touching up to the left). do you have flexibility differences?

I've been doing loops around a 5k pedestrian path so I don't get hit by a car. Yes, I can TT that - but I'm very much just using the bike right now to be able to get a workout in. My PT doesn't think it will hurt the achilles, and it hasn't, but I'm cautious.

the good news is I'm a super slow cyclist and there's so much room for improvement. Like >13 mph right now cyclist. I suck at it :-)

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I take it pretty easy when I ride as well. I can push the pedals hard when I want to but I feel my glutes but and hips getting tight and I don’t like that feeling particularly when I’m in the pool so I mostly just cruise around too 😀

there was another cyclist out for a bit yesterday and I played chase and it was so fun. I need to ride with people but I don't want to ride on roads and chance getting bit. Been there done that got the insurance $ don't want to do it again

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Drivers are so rude. I got passed really close yesterday in an Unsafe way when I was riding next to some parked cars up this hill only for the driver to stop at the red light 50m away. I am really conflicted how to react in these situations. I did a small gesture with my hand so to say , like come on serious? Not a &$*{^]^ off sign

4500 scm ish free-ish, kicked for a bit

something like

3 x (6 x 100 fist drill) on 1:50, 1:45, 1:40
50 kick
3 x (600 swim, 50 kick) 9:09, 9:10, 9:18 (I wasn't trying to descend these - just trying to work on good technique)
100 fist on 1:45
75 fist, 25 kick (started a set of fist drill but cramped)
4 x 100 on 1:45 fist
200 swim
50 kick
200 swim
50 kick
100 swim

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

oh, if MarkM is reading this, it was a cinnamon crunch bagel morning

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

can confirm, Karratha had a beautiful 50m pool in the early 2000s, recently upgraded to one of the best 50m pools I've seen anywhere..
about 1000 miles north of Perth, population 17 000
I'm a bit jealous ;-)

swimming took a hit the last month or so, trying to get ready for the Fishslapper 25k trail run... not ready, but happening Saturday, hope to survive.
taper week, 20x50 scy on a minute, 35-8s per each.

I find it quite funny that Sam Long is trying to ask YT for swim help, but sharing the video here in case any of you want to help him out.

pull more water. go faster.

Was able to sneak in yet another lake swim and even though i wore gloves, didn’t need them. Should be good for another week of chlorine free swimming!

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

swims from the last couple of weeks:

10/2: 2800scy
2x[200 swim, 4x50 drill]
2x[500 pull, 100 kick, 16x25 swim IM order]

+45min strength session

10/4: 2500scy
2x[300 swim, 4x50 drill]
3x[100 IM- 100 kick - 100 with ankle band and paddles - 100 kick - 100 swim]

10/5: 3200scy
2x[200 swim, 4x50 drill]
4x50 25 sprint/25 easy
5x200 strong descend on 3:00 [2:11->2:06]
2x50 easy
3x300 strong pull
4x50 easy

+5ish miles on the treadmill

10/10:3200scy
2x[300 swim, 4x50 drill]
2000 pull, strong and negative split 21:41 (10:53/10:48)
4x50 easy

+45 min strength

10/12: 3400scy
2x[300 swim, 4x50 drill]
20x100 on 1:25 best avg (I think prob 1:02high)
8x50 cruise

+ 4miles on the treadmill

---

-----

Adrian,

i am the opposite of you ( in terms of consistency)

I did that 7k swim a few weeks ago and then got covid.
Managed a few days of horrible and now 2 weeks of feeling ok then not.

My not ok swim last week was 3500 where I could barely break 115 on a 100. So I just forced myself to stay in the pool.

My good swim last week was also 3600 but some max swims which were great (if you ask me.. esp for the lack of training)

MyMainSet was: (we have a coach now so he was taking splits)
2 x 100 on 3min -- 101.8, 56.7
4 x 50 on 2min -- 27.7, 27.2, 26.9, 26.5
8 x 25 on 1min -- between 13.8 and 12.9
4 x 50 on 2min kick/swim -- 34s and 35s (he wasnt giving times on these)
----
so, that was pretty good. Actually id consider that the best i could have possibly done. Zero consistency and zero confidence going in.
After that second 100 where I was 56... I thought I was done for the day. Ha. But managed some nice 50s after that.

daved

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

Swam today after six days out of water for various reasons. Saw shoulder surgeon mon, don’t want to talk about it yet

Fri - 5 x (3 min jog, 2 min walk), 34 mi indoor bike
Sat - 51 mi bike
Sun - 40 mi bike
Mon - 1h50 stairmaster
Tues - 8 x (3 min jog, 2 min walk), 1h45 stairmaster
Today -2000 scm free-ish, 2 hours stairmaster

18 x 100 on 1:50
50 kick
200 swim
50 kick

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Nice to set a PB in the water just short of my 60th b-day!

But it's not that kind of a PB.

Managed to swim my latest - ever crossing of Whonnock Lake - Oct. 17 - wow, that really extends the open water swimming season from early April... a long. long. way. I'm so happy that I can lake swim for over half the year. The $ I save on pool entries, I can save up to buy one of those Deboer wetsuits by the time I am 70 years old!!

Super happy that I managed to swim at a 2:03/100 metres pace for the final 500 metres.

Yes..a wetsuit.

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

best of luck w that shoulder.

monday swam an easy 1800
finished w 4 x 50 on 1 and was 29/30 on all of them

tuesday was threshold day
MyMainSet
4 x 150 on 1:55 (138-140s)
6 x 100 on 1:15 (107s108s)
12 x 50 on :40 (33s-35s)
total w warm up was 3600

going max speed tomorrow

daved

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

LCM - 110 minutes 7k ish a bit more a bit less

200 back 800 free
200 back 200 free 200 back 200 free 200 free
6x100 IM drill
400 free / back easy

up till this point was sharing with 5 people in the lane :(. then got my own lane with 1 other and 4-4-2-4-4-1 descending

500 easy paddles
100 easy swim
7-8x100 as a mix of different speeds for different parths of the 100

easy swimming for 10-15 minutes
5 minutes of sculling drills with and w/o paddles

Loving that volume.
Kinda jealous of it. Kinda not. Ha.
Sprint day.

MyMainSet:
6 rounds
25 max into 75 aerobic
Rest :20
Into 50 max
Then 50 recovery plus extra rest. We did 100s between a couple times. But allowed full recovery before starting next round.
My times are in the pic. Had coach taking times.

Daved

---

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

its killing my speed but it is giving me a boost in fitness at end of sets. that speed set looks like an absolute killer!

today lcm
200 back 8x100 IM drill

2 rounds of 2x200 IM [first round on 315, second round 310] 4x50 on 40 4x50 hypox [breath every 5] on 50 200 easy

40 x 50 as fast every 4th for 16, fast every 3rd for 12, fast every second for 8, fast last 4 - all on 45. not trying to do too much but just do 35s on the fast ones. rest just swim through steady

1-2-3-400 paddles easy free

2x400 IM (free not fly) on 610
100 lift tempo
100 easy

Yesterday 2.1 mi total jog in a 3.2 mi jog walk, 22 mi indoor bike
Today 12 x 100 on 1:50 fist drill (scm) then 1h45 stairmaster

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

With travel, grandkids sitting and now shutting down for my fourth surgery in the last twelve months….only got in five days of swimming in October for a total of 8K…enough to keep the feel of the water. Planning to rejoin the discussion in December when I am cleared to exercise again….

I have an immense amount of sympathy for injured and ill people. Please share the details of your surgeries if you like. I'm genuinely curious and I hope your fourth surgery goes well. Keep us updated.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Hope your shoulder isn't too bad and you can get back to it. If you can at all, now would be a good time to do lots of sculling to improve your feel for the water.

Swam 3 days in a row, don't think I've done that in a while:

Wed: 3400scy
inspired by Lionel's latest swim video
2x[200 swim, 4x50 drill]
6x400 descend 1-3 on 5:15 (4:34-30-26, 4:32-28-24)
4x50 easy

+ 45min strength session

Thurs: 2000scy
2x[ 2x[200 swim, 4x50 drill], 4x50 25sprint/25 easy]

+4.6 mile run with strides

Fri: 4000scy
2x[200 swim, 4x50 drill]
500, 5x100
400, 4x100
300, 3x100
200, 2x100
100, 100
the 'straight' intervals were swim ~threshold effort
the 100's were with paddles an ankle band, except for the last one just paddles.
Everything on 1:20/100
4x50 easy

---

-----

Got back from trip and back in the pool again. 2nd one back was this yesterday, just some distance to get back in a groove:

4x(500 buoy or pull)@7;30/7;00/200frog@4;00 buoys(7;13/6;57)pulls(6;27/6;24)frogs(3;50/46/44/39) 14x50@1;00-8buoy(40 to 38+)swim(36/36)frogs(55/55/54/54)
3500SCY in 58;30

Swam the 3 days of the meet, SCM and was off a bit. But due to lack to top talent, came away with 6 golds and 3 silvers in all of my events, including the Tri. Had a good race in the 200IM, guy had me by 6 1/2 seconds after the back, and I pulled it back and beat him in the end. A slow 2;55 for meters, but all I had. Just paced it to my best and it turned out ok. 1;20 100 IM and a 2nd there, all the other events were mostly the same as good workout get out swims...

Triathlon was fun, first one in over a decade. Was super cold and clumsy, and they shortened the already shortened swim which cost me the overall race in my AG. Did hang on for 2nd, and it was my old buddy who I just got back in the sport that beat me too!!!

Fix my fluttering heart (300 beats per minute) so they can repair my retracted shoulder tendon and torn bicep so I can support my self when they replace my hip and oh by the way….your bladder is failing so we need to remove half your prostrate. 4 surgeries and only one race isn’t a good year….turning things around next year:-) However I did get to the podium in the sprint race I did do keeping my streak of 58 straights years of racing!

All you fast fishes here have inspired me to bump up the yardages, and some intensity too. Today was a descending interval and time day. Felt ok up at my high pool, maybe even think about the Postal 3k this month:

15x200 as 3buoy@3;10(2;51/47/46)3buoy@3;00(2;45/44/43)3pull@2;50(2;36/34/34)3p@2;40(2;33/32/32)3frog@4;00/3;50/3;40(3;47/3;41/3;37)
15x50as 3buoy@1;00(41/41/40)3buoy@;55(40/40/39)3buoy@50(40/39/39)3buoy@45(39/40/39)3frog@1;00/;55/50(54/51/49)
4x50back@1;20/1;10/1;00(46/45/42+/41)
4x50flutter/dolphin@1;15/1;10/1;05/1;00(64/60/58/55)
4150SCY in 73 minutes

felt pretty rough today after a weekend catching up with friends and a late ride yesterday. wasn't able to get into a good rhythm today

4321 free '30 base
5x100 IM on '40 base

8x400 as 4 on 545, 2 on 530, 2 on 515 (hold 509,510 on last two)

300 easy

200 200 150 150 100 100 50 50 alternate between 1'15 base and 1'30 base.

1k easy

6.8 lcm solo swim

2k worth of easy mix free and back

10x150 on 2 (hold 152-154s and 150 and 149 on last 2). trying to get the race pace speed and duration for OWS coming up. been really working to get a 1'15 stroke feeling good but it is killing my top end doing this all distance

200 easy

9x200 on 305 as FRIM just swimming to make the time

long cool down easy slow free

I'm doing some long distance stuff too, taking a tiny break from sprints. Still thinking about the 3k postal, so did this one today:

30x100@1;30 as 10 buoy(1;26 to 1;22)5swim(1;24to 1;21+)5buoy(1;23/22's)10as 2pull/1swim-pulls(1;17/16's)swims(1;21/20/20)
5x100frog@2;00(1;50/49/48/47/45)2x50buoy@1;00(40/37)
3600SCY in 57 minutes

Brute begins next month, but where will you find a SCY pool waverider?

pretty old school set that

yeah there is no yards where i am but i can do it either short course or long course. i would be much happier to do it short course. do you get a counter to help you on the mile? i could probably keep count but i would also go into that weird brain fade at around 300 to go short course and lose count.

thinking it through i figure it is much more beneficial to negative split the whole thing as you can make up way more time on a fast mile compared to a faster 2fly 4IM and a slow mile

Got some crazy nerve pain and cramping in my arms. Last night drying off after shower and my arms locked up just where forearm meets elbow. Went for my swim and it was really locking up excruciating pain in my bicep and forearms - like nerve pains. So odd as my legs are fine as I biked 40 minutes no leg nerve pain at all

Few days off or some kicking only and should be fine next week. Anyone had anything like this

That sounds awful, and I have never heard of anything like this. Doesnt seem like swimming related injury, maybe some position on the bike is off, did you fall or anything like that??

And I assume you have had cramps before, could this just be severe cramping that you couldn't stretch out to relieve? I'm a pro at cramping, know every inch of their existence in my body. But I know people that have never or hardly ever had one, some dont even know what it is to have one. Guessing you are not one of those guys, but maybe??

Did my long run today and got in and did a recovery swim to get back to doing doubles once in awhile. Got up a head of steam for the Senior games, feels a shame to let it all go now since I did the hard parts:

1000frog@20;00(19;34)
1000pull@14;00(13;07--6;38/6;29)
3x(2x50flutter/dolphin@1;15/3x50buoy@1;00)kicks(64/62/64/61/61/57)buoys(40/39/38/40/38/37/37/36/36)
2750SCY in 50 minutes

can't help, sorry you are dealing with that. Keep us updated.

3200 scm free-ish and a bunch of kick

20 x 100 on 1:50 fist
100 kick
100 swim
50 kick
150 swim
50 kick
200 swim
50 kick
250 swim
50 kick
300 swim
2 x (50 kick, 100 swim)
bunch more kick

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Hope your arm is feeling better today, just a one day anomaly I hope. I got super pumped watching the backyard ultra, still going and down to last 2. So made it my mission to get in 4k in under an hour, and just made it!! Arms were toast at the end, but just kept thinking about those guys having run over 500 miles with no sleep in 5 days already, so a drop in the bucket compared to what they are going through:

18x200 as 9@3;10-2buoy/1swim--buoys(2;51/48/47/45/43/43)swims(2;47/45/43)9pull@2;50(2;34/34/34/33/33/33/32/33/31)
4x100buoy@1;30(1;23/24/24/22
4000SCY in 59;52!!

nice set. swam for 90 minutes today and after a nice gentle warm up did some low tempo backstroke and free towards the end. now it feels like I have just done the craziest arm workout of my life as my forearms are so tight.

about 4 years ago i was doing a water polo practice and we were throwing med balls to each other over head with two hands. like a soccer throw in from the side. i kind of caught the ball in an awkward spot and my neck seized up so bad. I could barely turn my head. afterwards I could only get out of bed by like rolling sideways and out of it onto the ground - quite spooky. i am probably having a somewhat related version of this with my arms at the moment. fun times! :)

no bike crash, my position is fairly up right at the moment, and just a strange spasm i suppose

lcm 30-40 minutes of easy swimming and lots of 50m kick on a board 2 laps easy swim
1.5k of backstroke as 1-2-3 on 140 into 9x100 on 135s
200 easy
44332211 125 cycle for 4s and 3s and 120 cycle for 2211 (as 237,232,115,114)
200 easy

also wanted to get your thoughts on the amount of training relatively speaking that a typical adult tri does (particularly one doing half and above) compared with the amount of training a masters swimmer does

a typical adult tri would probably consider 12 hours per week to be the minimum, and spread the load out across the whole week and not have any days off. they may hit some 15-20 hour weeks too

a typical masters swimmer would probably consider 6 + hours in the pool (covering say 18-25km) to be a fairly massive week, and that would likely involve 1-2 two days off

i'm not really talking about the marathon type swimmers, but just a swimmer who wants to place well in their age group in OWS races

do you people who post in the swim sections here regularly have any thoughts on this? you just don't really see adult swimmers putting in 12-15 hours of pool time or really getting above 30km. there is a guy who has been featured on here Alex Kostich who says he puts in 40km weeks every week but is that sort of person the outlier?

same thing with runners and tri.. you can get to most of your performance potential on 6-8 hrs a week of running. More than that is usually just a recipe for injury.

The problem is the bicycle ;-) mostly, multisport is also a problem because you can't really get enough workouts for 3 sports into a week except by doing doubles on some days.

another couple weeks off, this time because of doing a header into the trail at the Fishslappers 25k and resulting road rash on the hands.. luckily DuoDerm helps the healing.

Finally back in the pool,
5x200 3:00 to 3:10 pretty sad, 5x100IM 1:50s, 5x50 33 then 37s. discouraging times, but on my current training volumes it is as my wife says, either complain less or train more..

crazy week w two sick kids at home mon-wed so I was out of the water a full week.
Headed back in today for speed stuff.

Freakin hard workout!! wow.
1200 mix warm up

MyMainSet:

3 x 200 done as
50 build into 100 max into 50 easy + 1min rest when done.
100 splits were 102, 100, 101

4 x 150 done as
25kick into 75max into 50 ez then a 1min rest before going again.
I again, took my 100s times including the kick, they were 110, 109, 108, 107 (i had been off a week so I wasnt asking coach for my splits he focused on my swim partner)

6x 50 all max on 1:30
27, 27, 28, 27, 28, 27 ( think I was prob 26 high on the first and second one but coach was struggling w his watch)

anyways, totals around 900 of max efforts.

My push 100s max are typically faster like 56s and 57s but doing it w the 50 build before was a nice challenge and prob more accurate for tri purposes. It was different and my partner and I found today to be really really tough.
we swam an easy 100 between rounds but never any extra rest during.
All in all, after a pretty tough week being out of the pool and basically out of commission w two sick kids at home.... i was pretty happy w it.
daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

Thanks for replying. First of all funny comment from mrs doug in co.

It seems like people who are really into triathlon and multi sport don’t have any days off - who knows how training hours are calculated but it does seem like a lot of volume gets done on the bike. I use my bike for commuting and going to the shops but I don’t really count that into my weekly training hours. I am just light pedaling most of the time as I find it tightens my hips and shoulders if I really try on tbe bike

Heading to an engagement party tonight and pretty gassed from today. 8pm and I’ll be struggling

Lcm

500 back slow 5x100 im drill 500 mix free

8x400 as 3 on 540,3 on 530, 2 on 520 (514,512) right into 200 hold 229

800 snorkel easy
4x100 on 130 2x150 on 215 holding 114-15 pace

Rest just easy nothing floating 6.7km

Would love to be able do 10x100 on 115 long course sometime in next 12 months

Hey fishies, I apologize for not recently (or in months) participating here.

As many of you know thanks to this thread, in 2016 I embarked on a path of going from broken triathlete who could barely walk and replaced all my previous run + swim volume with swim + swim volume.

I quickly realized after my first two 20km weeks that doing all the free and "free drills" was going to break my upper body so started a lot more kick but even then it became boring. By Jan 2017, I learned that it was illegal to swim dolphin kick under water for more than 15m.

I looked at the flags at 5m and realized I don't even get there.

So after that spent first 9 months of the year doing 7 dolphin kicks off wall no matter how gased I was on every push off. trying to get further and further. From there decided to learn breast and back stroke (I had taken that in red cross swim to survive as a kid). Then I got a set of fins and started more dolphin kick drills from where I learned some semblance of fly.

By Nov 2017, I did my first 400IM in a training session. I thought that event was cool after watching Alex Baumann winning the 400IM gold at the LA Olympics.

Anyway, after that I worked up to doing a lot of IM. So every Decemeber I do some kind of 10,000IM set (the hardest one I did was 25x400IM LCM as some of you know). It all depends on what I am in Oct. So on Oct 27, on my birthday I do a prep set of IM to see where I can get to before Dec 25 for the 10,000IM.

So yesterday I did a 29x200IM LCM and ended with a 200 fly plus 200m warmup and cooldown. The total elapsed time for this was 2:21, so I was a touch over 5 min per 200 including rest. My rest was random. I took minimally 10 breaths rest but as it was during lane swim I did not want to get in the way of others.

I trained for the fly leg with a lot of 50LCM fly followed by 50m dolphin on back (some days I would do 10 in a row), but had not done much breast stroke and I thought this would kill me. I have not been doing much back stroke and free is free.

What I was surprised with is I cruised through the fly and as things turned out I kept what form and glide I have on the breast. But literally my arms were falling off in back stroke. A few time, I just left my arms in streamline and kicked on my back to give them a break from cramping and after that I was using more kick and soft pulling from around 3600m to the 5000m point.

So is the dolphin kicking training keeping my breast stroke together? I think I did more breast stroke in one day than three weeks combined!!!

In any case this was a lot slower than the last few years...probably around 15 min longer elapsed time overall at 58 than at 56 doing roughly the same thing. Cardio has definitely gone down and body parts are not working as well. It's feeling like the 10,000 may be more like a 4 hrs day than 3.5 hrs in the past. I will add that I have been babying a back injury all year so all my pushoffs are a bit of slow motion. That alone may explain half of the slowdown

Hey Dev,

I have been in and out of the fish thread too w life just taking over.
I’m not sure I want to do 10k of IM work but certainly game for some form of abuse. I’ll talk to my swim buddies and see if we can’t come up w something equally as awful. Ha

Glad you’re back in the pool. Keep at it.

Daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

I think a 5 - 6k IM set is definitely not so outrageous but I don't know if I can manage 10k worth. 15x400 or 30x200?

2000 m free-ish, 50 kick, 5.1 mi walk/jog mix

set was 20 x 100 on 1:50 fist drill

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

out of the water for a few days and had some completely off doing halloween stuff with the kids. Back at it today at the high pool, and it is slowly heating up once again for the winter water walkers. Bringing some IM with all this 10k of IM talk going on too:

2x(10x100 as 5 buoy/pull@1;30/2xfrog@2;10/2;20/3x100IM@2;00)buoys(1;26 to 1;21)pulls(1/16/15/13/13/11)frogs(1;52/51/49/47)IM's(1;25/25/24/24/23/21)
4x(150p@2;40/50stroke@1;20)pulls(1;58/54/53/53)fly(35+)back(41)brst(41)free(33) 100SD
2900SCY in 54 minutes

Hi TC,
Back on my swim streak thing again, haven’t missed a day since late June. Finished off the multi sport season in late September. Ended up on 18 podiums in 19 sprint races and have gone 4/4 in 5k podiums in the last month. Since I’ve ran all of 315 miles all year, all credit goes to the pool!😊
Happy Halloween!

way to go, times like three I think!

I taught in a lion costume today :-)

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Nice job there Mark, that is a lot of racing. But of course it is a ton more fun that just training all the time!!

Got in and felt slow and sluggish, so punched my way out of the corner doing some long sets:

15x200as 3x(3x200buoy/pull@3;10/3;00/200frog@4;30/200IM @4;00)buoys(2;58/56/54/49/47/46)pulls(2;37/35/33)frogs(3;52/43/37)IM's(3;03/2;56/2;55)
21x50as 3x(4xpull@;50/2xfrog@1;10/1;20/1 stroke@1;10)pulls(37/37/37/36/36/36/36/35/35/35/35/33+)frogs(all 54's) fly(36)back(41)brst(41+)
150SD
4200SCY in 76 minutes

catching up on 3 days in a row.

threshold day on tuesday:
400 on 5min (434 .. prob too hard)
4x 100 on 1:15 (107s)
300 on 3:45 (328 .. smarter)
4 x 75 on :55 (49s)
200 on 2:30 (2:14)
4 x 50 on :40 (33s)
100 easy
4 x 100 on 1:20 (110s... i was tired) 4200 total

wed easy day 1650 super easy mix

today sprint day:

2 rounds of:
100 as 25max/75ez 2min (didnt get times)
100 as 50/50 2min 26.7 / 27.2
100 as 75/25 2min 44.2/44.6
100 max 58 and 1:00
50 easy
4 x 100 on 3min all max
59.1, 100.1, 101.3, 100.3

im completely shattered

daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

that is honest work. are you lining up for some masters ? OWS season is starting here

Just life… turning 50 next year so… a new age group but, not really a big motivator.

I may jump into xterra Bama again as I have a friend down there I like to visit and the race is as close to a legit “off road” Tri as they come.
(To me legit is a couple things: some techy bits on the bike where handling and skill can play a roll in speed. And isn’t just a straight uphill climb on a cart path. As well as a mostly non wetsuit swim and also not at altitude as all Xterra seem to be )

But I don’t have anything on the 2024 calendar yet… thanks for the nudge!! I’m open to suggestions.

Daved.

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

Also. Sorry… where is “here”? As in Ows season?
You must be done under?

Daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

Yes in Australia. I want to try a few ows events I haven’t done before - just to try some new beaches and see some new towns

Long course today
200 backstroke easy
844332211 on 545 cycle per 400
200 easy
10x100 on 120
Into short course lanes 200 scm higher effort 215
Back to long course
1k easy straight 1440
600 easy mix of strokes

You're crushing it for an old man there David, maybe time to get back to nationals and lite up those 50 year olds!!!

My back is a bit wonky, but swimming seemed to not make it worse today. Got in some fly to strenghten my core:

8x(2x100buoy@1;40/50frog@1;10/50fly@1;00)buoys(1;25 to 1;20's)frogs(57 to 53's)flys(41/41/39/39/38/38/38/37)
3x(200p@3;10 steady/50back@1;20)pulls(2;38/35/33)backs(42/42/41)
4x50dolphin@1;15(61/62/61/61)50SD
3400SCY in 65 minutes

Thanks Monty and Waverider

“For an old man”—- haha. I love it. Sad but true. Im old.
My speed is improving but seem to be losing endurance. The longer stuff is wayyy harder. And in a LCM set up it would be worse. It makes sense I have not been doing much of it and my consistency sucks. Working on it.
Maybe another shot at nats would be fun. When and where? Im up and age group so… maybe.
I’ll look into it. Sucked to be so sick last time (pre Covid) bc I was quite fit then.

More to come.
Hoping next week in the pool will be even better w a couple consistent weeks under me.

Get that back sorted Monty!! Or dive from the side?? Haha. Only kidding

Daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

I’ll look into it. Sucked to be so sick last time (pre Covid) bc I was quite fit then.//

Yes you were, and I could sense your disappointment at not even doing fast workout times in the meet. But as you will recall, it was post Covid, and that was the first nationals in a couple years, and it was delayed into the summer. Tony and I had great meets, and it will be sometime before I can replicate my great placings in all 6 of my events. I'm at the older end of the AG now, so just surviving and hanging on to those final spots in the final heat...


If you could ever taper off of those quick workout times, and have that magical day, you would be right up there fighting for the podiums in that 50+ AG. So hang in there, when do you turn 50?


I got in today for last swim for awhile, we got a camp up here starting tomorrow for a week, and that always challenges me to get in workouts. But at least I'm running now, so that is easy and I will take advantage of some of my 45 minute breaks. Felt crappy again at start, so just worked my way back into at least feeling like I was swimming:


1000buoy@15;00(14;47)
5x(200frog@4;00/2x50swim@1;00)frogs(3;50/46/42/40/37)swims(39/37/39/36/39/35/38/35/37/33+)
6x50 dolphin@1;15(67/65/63/62/61/60/57)
3x(200p@3;10/50frog@1;10/50swim@1;10)pulls(2;38/35/34)frogs(55/54/53)swims(36+/35/34)
4x50buoy@1;00easy(42/41/40/39)
3900SCY in 74 minutes

i have a problem with my stroke and it is that i tend to gallop. galloping is 1 thing but I may as well be getting struck with a whip as I over gallop. i have been neighed at in jest. i have been called 'horsey' too. its all a bit of fun but particulary in OWS when I really get the gallop going and it is about the most ugly thing in the world.

i am doing my best to learn new ways and i am now starting my pull on my left arm a bit earlier, and kind of swinging it in time with my right recovering arm leaving the wall and starting the arc over, rather than having that 3/4 catch up thing that makes me gallop. some days i could hold the good tempo on a non gallop stroke but not know how / why. i am now trying on joining the dots on what lets me do this


lcm today
400 back 200 IM 200 reverse IM - do this x 2. then 100 easy
40x50 on 45 - as every 4th fast for 16, every 3rd fast for 12, every 2nd fast for 8, 4 fast. 'fast' aiming for a controlled 34-35 and 33s on last 33-34 on last 5
500 easy
5 x 100 on 130, 50 on 45 holding 114 on 100s

swim down straight through to make the 2 hours up. around 7k

Sorry but not sorry I disappeared for a bit, Nov thread is up. You all are sweet but feel free to start the threads :)

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD