I bought a set of Hed Alps (700c clinchers) last summer and used them for the first time at IM USA. I like them although honestly haven't really tested them fully. I will say that due to the rain during the race and having the bike sit in transition afterward that water did get into the bearing and caused them to dry out. I could hear them "rubbing" when I slowly turned the back wheel. It was a simple fix for my local bike shop and now their good to go.

I like 'em and I didn't have to drop $1400...'nough said.

Hi Brian, I'm no expert but I am an avid researcher (read geek). I live in New Zealand, the land of very expensive bike equipment. I looked for close on a year before deciding on the Alps. They represented, by far the best value for money and most versitile wheels for me. I ordered them from the States and even taking into account the freight they were $NZ600 cheaper than I could get here. I am VERY pleased with them so far and can't wait to race them in IMNZ. Hope this helps, Scott

I'm curious as to how the Alps stack up against the new (or is that old) Stinger 5.0's. Anyone know?

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http://www.timetrial.org/tilium.htm

Did you test those Tilliums or just because they are cool?

I heard they are hard to get trued? Is that so?

If I worked for Spinergy, I bet I'd think the Tilliums are cool too. ;)

Until then ... I got a front Alps for Christmas. Nice wheel. Surprisingly light for a foam injected carbon fairing with a real rim. Easy to true if you ever need to (5.5 mm wrench ... of course you have to remove the tubie first, as the nipple is anchored to the aluminum rim, and not at the base of the fairing).

I thought long and hard whether I wanted a H3 or an Alps to match my disc. The H3 is more aero overall, but if one looks carefully at the tunnel data found on the Hed site, the H3 really outshines the Alps at 15 to 30 degrees, where a lightweight Doc like my bad self would get blown off course anyway. So Santa got me the Alps.

Dre'

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I have a pair. I bought them used. I love them. The have held up quite well to the New York City riding and racing conditions. I think they are some of the better aero climbing wheels and the price discount to Zipp's made it worth the while. Truing them is easy if you are a do it yourselfer.

some of the early production run had problems holding proper spoke tension. We have made some changes to the molding process and switched to Sapim nipples designed specifically for deep section rims. The new wheels are better than anything out there. Our spec is .020 inches true and hops. I called Zipp and HED and their specs are higher.

Just a few other observations since I ran down to Nytro and picked up an ALPS wheel when this thread began:

The HED rim bed looks very shallow. With the special "nipple rivots" protruding out into the bed I would imagine you would want to run pretty thick rim tape further reducing the depth of the bed. I measure the depth to be 6.8 mm. I measured one of our aluminum rims that we buy from Sun and it measures 7.4mm. This may be the reason HED does not authorize certain tires to be used on their wheels. Thats another thread though.

The HED rim is not welded, it uses a pinned or sleeved joint. All of our rims are welded and then machined, the same process that Mavic uses. Not many people will argue that it produces a better rim.

HED uses what looks like a Taiwanese hub on this wheel. By the looks of it I would say Joytech or Formula. Not that they are bad hubs but I feel our hub using Hadley Racing alloy cassette system is better. The cassette body can be switched out for Campy or Shimano in about 10 seconds. It is the same system Velomax uses and I believe Zipp used until a year or two ago.

Finally the graphics on the HED wheel look cheasy, I know that this is not a huge point but at $900 I would expect more than momochrome stickers. The HED logo on the wheel I got looks like it was cut out with an exacto knife and there are some jagged edges on it. Our graphics may be loud and obnoxious but they are made by a guy who also makes the decals for the decks of Aircraft carriers and the logos on Navy jets.

If I have made any mistakes please correct me. I dont want to misrepresent the HED wheel.

OK, apart from the fact that there's no way to gather any relevant information from the Spinergy web site (individual wheel weights, rim weights, ... where is all the extra weight?), and that these fine wheels only come in clincher ...

I don't know which Alps you looked at, but the nipples on my front wheels are about 3 mm inside the rim. I don't understand your "thick rim tape" argument. Real people use Velox, whether or not the nipples stick out of the rim bed. Nothing pokes through Velox.

The "machined sidewall" argument belongs to the same kind of people who claim that single-pivot brakes don't work (or feel the need to upgrade their stock Taiwanese brakesets to Ultegra). I just can't believe you really think it's an issue (I'm asking "Riding Paul", not "Sales Rep Paul"). Nobody can argue that given enough balls, any brakeset will lock any wheel at any speed, mid 80's Grand Compe included. Deltas don't count, of course.

622 mm being the bead diameter of a 700c tire, why is the rim bed depth relevant? It's just more room for the tube to expand "underneath" the tire, right?

Oh, and my wheel came 0.006" ...

Dre'

P.S.
Not trying to pick a fight, it's just that it's frustrating that the only way we can get some info about spinergy products is through your posts on this board. Spinergy's site is almost as bad as VisionTech's.

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Thanks Paul, you just helped me make up my decision.

I will buy a pair of HED ALPS!

Somebody that is trying to trash the product of someone else, in order to make his own wheels look good, looses all credibility.
You should focus on making a good product and stand behind it, no matter what the rest of the industry does. Obviously you don't try to put out a great product, you just try to find arguments why your wheels should be better than others; wrong approach!

I had Spinergy wheels many years ago, they where way to flexy for me. I bought Cosmic Carbone front and H3 rear and didn't look back.
Now I was intrigued by Spinergy again but the soap bubble popped right now!

That's the best post I've read in a long time!

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Sorry about the site. We are all pretty "internet inept" to say the least. If you want to know about Spinergy products feel free to email me anytime or stop on by our office in Carlsbad. The door is always open. We usually head out for a ride at lunch but are here the rest of the day. I love to talk to people about wheels, bikes, racing, training, the New England Patriots, whatever.

I didnt mean that the nipples were sticking out. In fact they are quite recessed. The "rivot" or "holder" does have a sharp edge and would require careful taping. I agree that everyone should use velox but there are many weight weenies out there who dont and for them it could be a problem. If I were HED I would include Velox with the wheels. I do believe sleeved rims are an issue. We used some rims from Extreme for a while and got nothing but complaints about the brakes "thumping" or "pulsing" on the seam. My understanding is that when you weld and machine rims you start with a slightly oversized extrusion and then machine the side walls perfectly parallel after welding. The sleeved jointed can never be aligned as well.

What part of my post was trashing? I am confused. Comparing products is trashing? If I am making things up up a competitor then yes I am trashing them but stating facts? What did I state in my post that was not fact? Maybe my decal comment and for that I apologize. If Andy from Zipp comes on and says our 303 is "x" number of grams lighter than the Tilum SS and we use Ceramic bearings, should I consider him trashing me? I assume those are the features he sells his product on and it is up to me to tout the features of my product and let the customer decide. "Next time I see a Pepsi challeng I am running right out and buying a Coke. Pepsi is obciously trashing the competition!"

"HED uses what looks like a Taiwanese hub on this wheel. By the looks of it I would say Joytech or Formula."

That is what people typically call an opinion not a fact.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

I'll just reply this one more time then I stop because this could go on forever and it's not worth it...

There is a french saying:

C'est le son qui fait la musique!
Attempt to translate: It's the sound that makes the music.
Or, it's the tone of your post that makes it trashy.

you write for example:
"Finally the graphics on the HED wheel look cheasy"

after that you could even say " I love HED wheels" and it would mean to everybody that you really meant: "HED wheels are crapp".

I have at my desk hubs from Joytec and Formula right now. The HED hub looks incredibly similar to the Joytech. endcaps, axle etc. I dont know why another manufacturer would copy a taiwanese hub so I am guessing that is what it is. I do admit though that you are right. That was an opinion and not a fact.

I honestly apologize if thats how it sounded. I couldnt think of a better word than cheasy. I dont know how much they cost so I didnt want to say cheap.I am sure the screaming chicken decals on the hoods of Pontiac Trans Ams cost a fortune but they look "cheasy" People tell me all the time our decals are obnoxious, so everyone has their own opinion. When we set out to develop the Tilium SS one of our goals was the sweet spot in the marketplace for a carbon aero wheelset for around $8-900 dollars. After speaking with several top retailers, It became obvios that the HED Alps was the competition. We were told that if we could make a better ALPS that we could deliver we would have a winner. I think we succeeded, and every dealer I have shown the wheels to, agrees. I just get frustrated when people still say " which one should I buy?" I think we have them beat in almost every way. And yes that is my opinion based on the facts that I have. Thats why I follow this forum. Trying to figure out what I can do to make our products better and to let people know when I think we have succeeded. I believe, as I am sure that Gerard and others do that the people who post on this forum are the opinion leaders among their peers. If I can convince you that our products are worth a look, then I have done more than I could probably do with a huge ad campaign in one of the mags. The flip side is that if I alienate one of you then I have done damage to my company. If that is the case then I am truly sorry.

"I just get frustrated when people still say " which one should I buy?" I think we have them beat in almost every way."

Do you mind expanding on the ways which you don't have them beat?

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

A-men to that!

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Sorry, I didn't want to spend any more time on this but hey this is actually getting funny, like it!

You english folks, can't beat that humor.

As the guy that started this debate (at least I started it this time), all I have to say is "Wow!" There is nothing like a passionate discussion. I'm still not sure what I'll get. So far, this has been more about the journey than the destination.

Thanks,

Brian

You posted:

"HED uses what looks like a Taiwanese hub on this wheel. By the looks of it I would say Joytech or Formula."

That is what people typically call an opinion not a fact.

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Sorry to butt in here but I don't agree. It is a fact, as stated by Paul, that the Hed hub looks like the Taiwanese hub, not an opinion. He has properly hedged his comment.

Furthermore, I don't see anything wrong with a manufacturer writing a comparison, critical or not, of a competitor's product. If the competitor's product has inferior qualities that are not obvious, how else do you presume you will get that information? Read a Triathlete magazine product review? Ha.

I'm an engineer, I like facts and data. To publish an ad that just says "our wheels are cool and Peter Reid loves them" is wasted on me. I appreciate Paul's review, self-serving or not, of the Alps. If you chose to buy Alps simply because you don't like his post, you are making what I would call an emotional decision. Marketing guys love that because it means they don't have to create a better product.

Dan

The Hed Alps early edition did have a bit of a problem staying true...at least mine did. I sent it back and was extremely pleased with Hed's customer service. But now, I run a nearly bomb-proof H3 on the front....but, I'm a little over 180 lbs...like Dr. Dre said, an H3 might be a little too much surface area for someone very light on a windy day. BTW, I run a rear disc, even in a mountainous race, and a rear disc helps self-correct the lateral forces that try and turn away a front wheel with a lot of surface area. So, for me, a rear disc is more of a balanced handling issue, because I'm going to run the H3 on front every race...if it's too windy to run my H3, it's too windy to race!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

If it means anything to you Paul, I'm a proud and happy HED Alps owner, and your advice is making me consider Tiliums.

I felt the same way about the decals too once I got to see them up close. I like the design and the way they look spinning, but they do almost look like they were cut with exacto. I'm also afraid I'm going to inadvertantly peel them off when I try to clean my wheels.

Have you done much aero testing of tiliums? That was a major selling point of the Alps for me. HED is very serious about that.

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Aerosexual.

Paul, you have made me want to look at the Tillium vs. the HED Alps now. I have never really been seriously in the market for a front carbon wheel (as I run a Lew in the front), but I am now curious.

I found your post very informative. I don't find anything in your post any more than informative, with possibly the opinion of the HED stickers. I never liked them, myself.

You're okay with me, Paul.

I also think yout post was fine. Did not think you "trashed your competition. Liked the debate with you and Dr. Dre.

Also,if I did think you were just giving advertising bs,I would check out all the facts on the compitition,and then challenge your post.....That is afterall how "I" learn.. Thanks Paul.

"Paul, you have made me want to look at the Tillium vs. the HED Alps now. I have never really been seriously in the market for a front carbon wheel (as I run a Lew in the front), but I am now curious."

I thought you were clincherphobic?

Extremely clincherphobic. I would not go with a clincher to race on. But I would like to look at them head to head to satisfy my own curiosity.

Hi, I wrote the review

Yes I did test them and ride them almost daily

The Tilium SS's have been bombproof and have not came out of true one bit. They are very comfortable as well.

I toured the Spinergy plant with Paul and can verify that Spinergy is a top notch operation and really puts in work to get a great set of quality wheels to the consumer

I also use HED wheels and believe that both HED and Spinergy make great models, and offer variety to the consumer

But, from a firsthand user, if you are looking for a great carbon race wheel, like John Cobb said, be sure to take a look at the Tilium SS as well

Now here is what I have a hard time to understand...

I went to three independent bike-shops in the Boulder area over the weekend. And all of them mentioned that the tiliums are very hard to true. One said, that once they are trued they stay that way, the others said nothing about that. Seems to me quit significant.

How about the glue between the rim and the carbon that's dripping out?

Other than that, they seem attractive wheels for the price.

While i can agree with you on most of your points, i don't think it was a great marketing move to be so blunt on a public forum.

I for one will argue that you can make great rims that are sleeved if the process is done correctly. Is one better than the other? depends on how they are executed. Mavic also uses rivets (which weeken the rim during there installation), so they certainly aren't an engineering standard.

Spinergy also isn't an industry leader in mehanically sound designs or products. Before pointing out another company's flaws (HED does have many, you only touched on them), you might want to point out your own.

I have a set of the Tilium Carbons and have rode them for six months in training as well as racing. They are extremely comfortable, handle well in crosswinds, and have stayed true from day one. Spinergy got a bad rap a few years back but my Tilium's have been trouble free and the customer service is fantastic. If your looking for a good value and want a wheel that you can race and train on the Tilium is hard to beat.

Hi folks,

Sorry to be bringing this thread back to life after so long. I have a pair of HED Alps that requires truing. I have not done any truing on recessed/hidden nipple wheels and there is no agent here for me to enquire.

For all those who know or have a pair to verify, do I just need a 5.5mm HEX nipple driver to true these?

I am also getting a strange creaking sound from the rear, it seems like the spokes are rubbing. It is very different to the sound of nipples clicking and is a distinct creak.

Help is needed!

You should have received a Red t-handle spoke key with the wheels from HED. I did, you just need to use that.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

I feel compelled to point out that reviews I've heard of the Spinergies have been very mixed:

http://www.roadbikereview.com/..._302945_2490crx.aspx

http://www.roadbikereview.com/..._174295_2490crx.aspx



half the reviewers found them to be excellent wheels, especially at the price point. however, several reviewers have had problems keeping the wheels true. one had spokes starting to pull through the rim. more than one had a problem with customer service. there are people I know who are still using their old Rev-X wheels, and there used to be a site documenting catastrophic failures of Rev-Xs, and the very poor customer service the owners received.

Wow, pretty poor reviews. Wonder if Paul C. will respond to this. I bought some 650 Alps since this thread started in Feb. and I am very pleased with them so far.

buffedup,
You do need a 5.5 wrench. They do not come with the wheels, but 5.5 is a fairly common size. If you cannot find one you can always order it from us (Hed Cycling). a strange creaking could indeed be spokes rubbing - is it always present? just under load?
feel free to send a message to me the address is hed@iswest.com
-andy

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Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

I think the ALPS is a good allrounder wheelset , I've had my clincher set for a couple of months now and am happy with my decision to buy them after agonizing over the choice between disc , tri-spoke or deep section rims or a combination for ages . I only ride time trials on courses that vary from flat 16 - 80 k.m's to hilly 15- 50 k.m's in one of the windiest places on the planet so that influenced my choice . I certainly don't get a seat of the pants feel of super acceleration , an ability to climb like a mountain goat or wanting to just keep spinning when up to speed like you hear people rave about but I can confidently say they're worth a 30 second improvement on a 16k t/t over the Dura ace wh-7700 wheelset I was using. Too many variables to say whether they will totally suit your own situation but I don't have anything bad to report these wheels.