This is coming at the perfect time. I realized, while driving the other day and coming across a cyclist coming toward me in the opposite lane, just how attention-grabbing a front blinking light is. I always ride with a rear one, but am going to get a front one too. But it seems that most front lights are designed to see by, and not be seen by. So, perhaps some recommendations on this topic. Personally, I use and like my Light and Motion rear light, so maybe one of those is best?

Further, I just got a new bike that had "aero" or perhaps rather ergo bars (it is a 2020 Felt VR Advanced Ultegra). I don't have much space to put on the front light. It like the cleanliness of the under GPS mount, but that adds about $60 dollars to a front light purchase! Thoughts?

I also have the Light and Motion (front and back) however have yet to figure out how to attach the rear light to my Cervelo P2 seat post without the light ending up at an angle. Based on the Varia article wondering if the Garmin Varia mount would work. Has anyone used this and/or have other suggestions.

Well timed. I'm starting to think about getting a dedicated head unit. I was going to spent some quality time over on DCR's sight...figuring out the right choice.

I've always just used my 920xt. But, every year it gets a little harder to read. Plus, I want to get a varia and the 920 doesnt support that.

I don't want to spend a crap ton, though. I'm not looking for live segments, awesome mapping, or any of that. Most of my sessions are structured, and I always use tp workout builder, garmin calendar sync to my watch for every session.

Thoughts?

For "easy to read" it's hard to beat the Wahoo Element family of head units.

I used the L&M Vis 180 Pro on my last bike, which was a Cervelo with an aero seat post. L&M, at least for that light, makes an aero seat post adapter that worked like a charm.

Which light do you use on the back?

I hadn't really considered a non garmin option. Any downside to stepping outside the garmin ecosystem?

 I have the Vya. I did contact L&M and they indicated there was no aero seat post adapter.

Maybe if you plan to integrate with Garmin Varia radar and/or lights. Though Wahoo supports the radar (only recently), I don't think they support Varia lights.

Otherwise any difference in feature set only extends to thinks you said you don't care about.

Ok. I meant more from the perspective of having another web interface to deal with: garmin connect, wahoo, trainingpeaks. Does wahoo support training peaks workout builder?

I guess I could continue to use my 920 for the structured workouts... Hmmm.

Oh yeah, you get TP workouts on 'em, well integrated with all the major sites.

For a “be seen” front light, I’ve found 100+ lumens works well in daylight.

You can get any number of small, low cost front lights that meet this and mount unobtrusively using silicone straps. Another option is a traditional headlight in flash mode (good option if you already have one, overkill if you don’t).

Personally, my front light is mounted under the stem. Good spot unless you have a torhans or such that blocks it.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Never really considered under the stem. Does having it set back that much get it blocked by the head unit in an out-front mount? Do you happen to have a pic of that set up?

Blockage hasn't been a problem (it's far enough down, see below). Having it in line with the head tube is also a bit cleaner aerodynamically and visually (though I don't have a visual cue that it is on/off without waving my hand in front).

For road bikes, there are lots of front lights that strap on the handlebar beside the stem.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

i'll let you in on a SECRET just about no one KNOWS. we have a front page on this site! ;-) that just reviewed the varia. i believe the question of lights was broached, tho what wasn't mentioned in the review - but was by someone who replied the article beneath it - the the faster pace of the light pulse as cars approach.

what was displayed in the review (which fredly wrote) and i thought this was a singular benefit to the piece, were images of the varia functionality displayed on 3 head units - 2 x wahoo and 1 x garmin - using a single varia's signal. like this one:

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Folks who are interested in pairing with the Varia Radar should definitely keep in mind that the black and white screen on the Elemnt (as opposed to the Elemnt Roam and/or Bolt) will mean that you don't get the color change synched to oncoming traffic speed function on the main screen of the device as you do on the other units. The LED display in some ways makes up for this, but having ridden with both I was surprised to find how much better I thought Radar worked with a color screen.
This is mentioned a bit in the article Slowman references above.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

I got a Garmin UT800 last year when I had to do a few pre-sunrise training rides before my A race. I picked mainly because of its marketing: I already had a Varia Radar and they used the term lighting network.

I am very happy with the dark performance of that light. 800 lumens is plenty for moonless roads with a tree canopy. And, I like that the Garmin HU will adjust the lighting based on speed and ambient light to both conserve battery and provide visibility. When the sun came up, it automatically switched to flash mode.

I am pretty sure the rubber band version of the Varia mount would work on a P2 seatpost for other uses. It is pretty standard. They give you a selection of inserts for different shaped seat posts and different length rubber bands for different sizes. None of the rubber bands are long enough for a very wide seatpost, like in a Felt IA.

It is tough to beat the value of a 520 Plus if you only want core features. Amazon has them on sale for $214 now. That gives you the color screen for best Varia experience.

Other than that, no real downsides to having a non-Garmin bike HU and Garmin watch. If you consolidate your activities into an aggregator like Strava or TP anyway, another web and mobile UI are not a huge deal.

The "trick" for when the rubber bands aren't long enough is to girth hitch a couple of them together.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

I use my gravel bike for commuting to and from work. Have a Fly12 at the front (yes it can be fitted to the double decker bar of the Grail, on the lower bar just next to where you put your thumb) and a Fly6 at the back.

Thanks. Yeah, the Amazon pricing us what git me started thinking about it. Then this thread popped up.

I bought a gamin Varia, because I love the concept. Unfortunately it’s not as useful as I’d hoped due to the fact that the alert on the edge 520 is not loud enough for me to hear. I have to keep checking, which means it’s not anymore useful than a mirror. The point of it was supposed to be to alert me when I’m not checking. So my question is this: Are there any head units that have a louder alert or even better that have volume control?
By the way another down side that doesn’t get mentioned is it really drains the battery life of the edge 520, though maybe more of an issue for me because I have an older unit, so battery life is already compromised.

The volume on the Wahoo Roam is sufficiently loud to get my attention every time it detects a vehicle. Much louder than the Wahoo Elemnt. Have not used the Varia with a Garmin head unit.

I have never seen comments on head unit beep loudness. I think my 530 and 1030 are both louder than my old 520 was. The only thing I can think is go into a shop and compare first-hand. In your case, it is likely the combination of frequency and loudness of the beep. Your hearing may not be as sensitive to the tone Garmin uses versus maybe Wahoo.

Not a volume control as such, but there was a firmware update last year that gave the option to change the Varia alert to a series of beeps, which is more likely to attract your attention. This applied to the 520 Plus and 530 - not sure whether it applies to the 520.

You can use the Varia on your P2. There is an aero seat post adapter. Keep in mind that you need to make sure you put it on the right way. One way it sits level and reversed it angles down.

I double up the elastics and then use another a 3rd band around where the elastics hook. I doubt it would ever happen but felt doing this eliminates the band slipping off the mount. It’s overkill but it’s not going anywhere!

We used these on our S5 and P3s.

Thanks for the thread. Any thoughts on how to mount a Varia _and_ a saddlebag for your flat kit? (I'm thinking of round seatposts on a road bike.)

Right now I've moved up my tube/levers/multitool to a bento, but am interested in hearing about what others have come up with a solutions.

i find the varia unobtrusive. i put it on my gravel bike and here's one pic of it.



i put a bag behind the saddle. loads of room. depends what kind of bike, and your set-up. but i haven't found any difficulty. i could even put it below the seat binder if i needed.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Is anyone out there coming to market with a combination radar + rear camera (basically a varia and a fly6)? That's what I want. I doubt I'm alone.

 

With a round seatpost, you're in luck. I'd recommend the Garmin bolt-on mount and whatever seat bag you prefer. I'm currently using a Silca capsule on my gravel bike, and a plastic peanut butter jar held on to the saddle by a toe strap on my road bike.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Safety is good and I've certainly contemplated getting a Varia, and still might, but there is one thing that puzzles me about it. So, I have a serious question for the Varia users....

What do you do, if anything, when it signals to you that a car is coming????? I can certainly understand how it is helpful to know a car is behind you. I can't really think of any negative about knowing that information. But, armed with that information, don't you just continue to ride as if there was no car behind you....???? Do you pull over every time? There is obviously a LOT of faith we put in cars that they will see us and not hit us (not totally unlike if you drive a vehicle, but obviously you are far more protected in a vehicle). But, even with this gadget, aren't you still just "assuming" that the car will do the right thing and not plow into you? So, what do you do with the info that this device provides to you?

Thanks!

This is a product for imperfect riders-- those people who do not ride exactly on the edge of the road 100% of the time and who do not think to consistently look back to proactive know the traffic situation behind them. If you have perfect riding discipline, then the Varia would probably not add much value.

Over the course of a long ride, you may be riding 2 or 3 abreast at times, you may drift away from the side (or intentionally move away for road hazards), you may not look back frequently to monitor traffic, etc.. The Varia takes the perfect discipline burden from you and does it better.

When you are imperfect, the Varia alert reminds you that you need to prepare for passing traffic.

Also, when I am about to make a left hand turn, I always check my Varia before looking over my shoulder. I am pretty good, but I sometimes drift left while looking back over my left shoulder. The Varia gives me confidence that when I am at risk of drifting some, there is not a car behind me. If Varia signals a car, I may actually stop to look back rather than risk drifting in front of a car.

Thanks. That’s helpful....non-perfect rider here :)

I definitely don’t proactively look at traffic behind me. Candidly, I didn’t even know that you are “supposed to”.

definitely makes sense using for turns, occasional drifting etc.

 





Here's something I wrote for early drafts of the Varia review up on the main page that I think gets to that question...

One of the first rides I did with my Varia setup was at Kona, on Waikola rd headed down towards the Queen K. I was bombing downhill on the paved median at around 40 mph. I had just been passed by an 18-wheeler, and was hugging the outer edge of the paved median, when a family of goats suddenly appeared in front of me, bounding joyfully out of the brush onto the side of the road. Naturally, they were now blocking the entire width of that median. I had essentially 2 choices; lock up the brakes and try to stop, or take evasive action into the lane of traffic, avoiding the squad of erratic goats in the process.
We can eliminate option #1. At that speed, I wasn’t going to stop in time. So, into the lane it was. One downhill lane, full of traffic… or not? Hopefully?
Remember, I was going 40 mph. Any vehicles behind me would likely be going a heck of a lot faster than that. For the sake of conversation, let’s say they would be going 80mph (that’s what we did on this stretch when we drove it later in the day. (Yeah, I know. No, I wasn’t driving.)
Conservatively speaking, I estimate that looking over my shoulder to check the lane would have given me a view of approximately 30 feet behind me. With a 40 mph difference in speed between me and a car approaching from behind, that equates to roughly .5 seconds of known clear lane. Subtract some smaller fraction of a second taking my eye off the damn goats.
If you ride very much at all, you’ve done plenty of math like this, even if you don’t know it, even if it’s all in your subconscious. It’s… unsettling stuff.
With the Varia running, I *knew* was in the clear. Green light on the screen – which I could see out of the corner of my eye without looking away from the goats – good to go. I “simply” veered into the lane and around the ruminant horde. Crisis averted.
Yes, that’s a pretty edge-case scenario, and I probably shouldn’t advocate that anyone rely on the detection capability of a device like this to the point that they no-look veer into traffic at 40mph but that’s better than forceful interspecies intimacy at 40 mph!
Less edge-case, same road…
2 days later, I’m at the tail end of a 5 hour ride, and I’m rolling down the same road, but farther up into the highlands, and a couple/few mph faster. As during the previous ride, I’m being passed by 18 wheelers, and the road is narrow enough that when they go by, I feel it. I feel it enough that I don’t want to be in my aero-tuck position on the bike when they go by. If only there was some way to know when the next vehicle might approach, perhaps with a convenient display that I could view without varying my position or view of the road in front of me!

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

One of the biggest changes for me with the Varia are those sphincter pucker moments when a car rips by way faster than me and I never knew it was coming. Those used to freak me out... If I were ever going crap my pants on a bike, that would be why. With the Varia, those moments are gone. It is never wonderful when a car rips by at +40 MPH, but knowing about it every time dramatically improves quality of life (and keeps my pants clear for another day).

Also makes sense, I can certainly recall scenarios in which I needed to take the middle of a lane but, because of speed or road conditions, a look back was not a great option.

I'm all in for making biking safer on the road. I read your front page article on the Garmin Varia and I have to write on this thread that it put me on the defensive immediately when I read the claim "“actively tells you when vehicles are coming, how many are coming, relatively how far apart they are, and how fast they are closing. And, the Varia typically sees vehicles much further back than you can see in a mirror.” Anyone who has ever driven a car knows how far back they can see in either their rear view or side mirror (I was pretty damn good at spotting cop cars thousands of feet behind me in my younger days). When I ride the roads, I see vehicles as far back as the last turn with my hood mounted mirror that I’ve been using for over 30 years. And the argument that you have to take your eyes off the road to look at the mirror; do you use your mirrors when you drive? How's that worked for you?

I took this pic last year to prove my point in a previous thread on this topic and I’ll post it again here to show the “real time” view in HD from behind. That's a good 1/2 mile of road behind me.
Disclaimer: I don't get paid to sell mirrors and just want to defend alternative safety devices. Whatever you use: be safe!

I hang the Ion 800 front light upside down off my road side extension. Works like a charm.

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No coasting in running and no crying in baseball

let me just add my personal sense. there are 4 cases the varia is better than no varia. for me.

1. headwinds. when i'm riding into a headwind i don't see the car until i SEE the car. absent he varia i know there's a car behind me when the car's alongside me, and not before. the varia doesn't care about winds.
2. the varia sees cars before i do. it sees around corners. somehow.
3. what fredly calls "edge case" scenarios. something really shitty has JUST happened in front of me. i don't even have time to turn around and look at what's behind me. can i move into the lane safely to avoid that shitty thing? this is the best thing the varia does.
4. i have ALWAYS taken up more than just the bare right hand side of the road when a car approaches. before the varia was anything more than a thought bubble. as in, i'll ride 24" or 30" from the edge of the road when a car is coming - i'm not quite "taking the lane" but certainly not on the right edge - and then when the car gets right up on me, i'll THEN move over to the right edge. i still do that. that was and remains my behavior. when i'm on my gravel bike i may well move off and into the berm as the car is upon me. the varia gives me a precise read of exactly when that car is on me. i'll look behind me when the car is coming, to see if the driver is, in fact, bearing down on me. that's when it's 50 or 75 meters away. i won't look back when it's right on me, because the act of looking back tends to pull one in that direction. but if the driver appears to be paying attention, driving in the middle of the lane, then i'll let the varia tell me when to move that last foot and a half or 2 feet to the left, to give myself that buffer.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thanks. I’m sold. I’m overdue for one of these.

Must. we. do. this. again? From the OP:

My "trick" for this problem as well as the security (or least sense of security) discussed in the web article is to use hitch multiple thin zip ties in place of the rubber bands. It's a bit of a pain to get in place at first, and it isn't removable, but I don't worry at all about the rubber bands falling off, which will inevitably happen as they age and get exposed to the elements.

Just wanted to throw this out there. I'm not affiliated with this guy at all but he makes 3D printed Varia mounts for almost all the aero seat posts. He didn't have one for the Speedmax so I took a small cutoff from my post and mailed it to him and he had it ready to print within a day. It's a much cleaner and more secure option than the Garmin OEM option. YMMV.

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/revolutionaries

Very cool. I have been looking for a good mount to attach my Garmin UT800 light to the front of my road bike. I cannot seem to find any go pro mount inserts that will securely hold the light pointing straight ahead. Maybe I can adapt one of these...

Have you looked into the FormMount from F3? They support a lot of accessories

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Oddly enough, we actually linked through to Shapeways/The Revolutionaries in the Varia article on the main page :)

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

 My bad...I actually read the entire article but didn't click on all the links. Lesson learned.

Thanks. No, I had not seen them before. I may go there, if I cannot figure out anything else. They are very expensive-- $75 for a mount with a light adapter.

Don't take that the wrong way, I'm actually really glad you posted! I've got a message in to them right now about having a custom mount made, and very interested to hear about yours. Can you post up pics?
Having mounts 3D printed is a really cool application of that technology, and I think it's exactly the sort of thing we should be sharing info about on this thread!

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

No problem. When I asked him about it he said the only way he could produce the mount was to get a cutoff of the seatpost in question. I took a hacksaw and removed about 1" from the bottom of my seatpost and mailed it to him. Easy enough. Here is a picture.

Very cool, thanks!

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

If you still are holding on to your 920xt, support for the VARIA is coming (soon! I Promise. Fingers Crossed)
See this --> Post #90 of 92


I guess all head units / Watches would be limited in terms of volume from the tinny speaker. But - What if you could choose the tone? I know there are a series of tones (https://developer.garmin.com/...oybox/Attention.html) [ that canary tone is a long shrill. irritating actually)

i haven't tested this app --> https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/afb342af-223f-4737-923e-bf01371369cd but it supposedly cycles thru a series of tones. Perhaps there is one tone which would suit?

On the other hand, aren't you also slightly irritated when you're in urban roads and the thing is beeping non-stop? The Garmin watches which supports the Varia Radar can't exactly turn off the tones (easily) [ need to go into settings etc and it basically removes all tones/vibrations hence even auto-lap tones would be missing] Is this also the case w/ the EDGE units? Is there any easy way to turn on or off the tones?

Which would be better?
1) an easy way to turn off the tones when in urban traffic and then turn it back on again when in rural/ less traffic areas?
2) Have a alert "rate limiter" similar to a HR Max Alert. eg: check / alert ONLY every 30secs otherwise assume that there are cars oncoming. (Hence those 30 secs will be muted? Something along those lines)

Your custom watch face looks very cool. Keep it up!

in way of notice, we'll be hosting questions and providing answers here, if you have any, about the article up today on the varia. it includes, specifically, this video of 7 different receiving units, made by wahoo and garmin, all synced to the same varia. best seen if you go fullscreen.



this is courtesy of matt hill, aka fredly on the forum here.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It's also worth discussing that there are other aspects of the Varia integration that differ between Garmin and Wahoo (the only two computers I've used with a Varia)

For example, Garmin wires the radar alerts into their standard notification system (with tones that are distinct from other alerts). One implication of that is how display lighting is handled. Normal alerts trigger the display light, but then it times out after a fixed period of time. I found that to be problematic for the Varia on my (pre-dawn) morning commutes. I'd be checking the display to see the status of vehicles behind me, and all of a sudden it would go dark. Not a happy situation. The only solution I could find was to leave the display on all the time, which was a battery killer. Ideally Garmin would make an exception for radar alerts and keep the display lit as long as vehicles are present. Wahoo, in contrast, lets you use the top LEDs for radar status (in addition to the main display). Those are easily visible in the dark.

Another difference is the tones. I never could figure out the logic of Garmin's tones. Sometimes one beep, sometimes two, sometimes three, ..., all the way to five tones once. The number of tones seemed unrelated to the approach speed or the size of the oncoming vehicle. Also, I could not distinguish the initial alert tone(s) from the all clear tone. Wahoo does a much better job here. Vocal cadence is, of course, language and culture-specific, but the alert tone is a perfect mimic of "watch out" (with the second syllable stressed), while the clear tone matches "all clear" (first syllable stress). They're readily distinguishable, and I find it easy to keep track of what's behind me without even looking at the display. Wahoo also has a separate danger tone for rapidly approaching vehicles, and it's impossible to confuse with the others.

You're dead on with this, and we're going to add more video (and audio!) to our series to show these differences you describe, and add offerings from other manufacturers as they come on line.
As we wrote in the first piece on the Varia, we were surprised to discover just how much the implementation of this protocol can vary from head unit to head unit, and it's worth talking about/showcasing these differences, especially for people who will be purchasing new head units in the future.

Next vid up will be a side-by-side of the Roam and the 830, and we can do a dive into the display/audio options available with the different units as well, as folks seem very interested in this!

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

I use the Varia with the Bryton 420 head unit. It syncs with no problem every time and quickly. The sound notifications work, but it lacks the scrolling vehicle view as they get closer and ultimately pass. I did like this view when I was using the Varia with the Ridewithgps app on my phone.

I was excited to hear Bryton was working on a radar that would offer that feature on my head unit, but it seems like that product launch did not go as well as planned. I would be interested in a review of that unit, the Gardia, as there have been software enhancements to make it much more on par with the Varia, but at lower price point.

thanks -- Barry

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Great things never come from comfort zones.