Shows once more that training trumps equipment every time. I think he was actually coached by Triatlon Taren. If that is the case this is a good outcome for Taren as well.

---

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

He's very annoying. But that's a pretty good time.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Dude ran a 5:3x all-out mile a few weeks ago at 200+ lbs bodyweight on the track, it's on youtube.

He does look awfully superbuff to me though, having lifted quite a lot myself, I do wonder if there is physiological x-over and that's ALL I'm going to say about that!

He did sound like he trained legit for the IM, but yeah, that's a heckuva a 1st try.

He also weighs 195 lbs

I followed almost his entire Triathlon training series. Better than a lot of other things out there. I'll give it to the guy, he set a goal, and accomplished it. He also has a pretty fantastic drive. I was watching him live on the Ironman app during the IMFL day.

---

- Jordan

My Strava

Also, can't believe his nutrition plan held up. He barely had a plan a few weeks out. During some of his videos he was drinking gatorade zero. Although he did 10,000 calorie challenge fasted so maybe he's pretty fat adapted. Just unbelievable to me.

I actually do the same thing. But not for the same reasons as him. I just prefer to get my carbs through clean sources and not pure sugar.

---

- Jordan

My Strava

His bike was next to mine in transition. Seemed super nice. Glad he did well.

He was one rack over from me and I didn't realize he was Nick Bare until people started going up to him and asking for pictures. Extremely genuine and nice guy, he talked to every single person I saw go up to him. Especially considering it was his first Ironman, it was my first as well and I was a nervous wreck running around like a chicken with my head cut off. I wouldn't be able to interact with dozens of people while trying to get my final prep in

It was his first triathlon ever

Wait, what? I did not know that part. Now I am seriously impressed! He crushed it

Wait what’s wrong with Gatorade Zero? It has zero sugar/calories. I’ve switched over to that a couple of months ago and I’m feeling great and managed to keep sugar cravings at bay with it

---

swim.bike.run.soccer

My understanding is he has a history of running but started swimming 5 months ago. Is he an Army Ranger?

Looking at pics of him on the net there is no doubt he is chemically enhanced...

Why don’t you follow his history on YouTube before you bash him for steroids...cmon man you’d be surprised what people can attain aesthetically when bodybuilding and lifting consistently for 10 years. Don’t be jealous

I don't care what his history is, as someone who has been involved in BB for many years I have a pretty good idea of what natural looks like.

Well same here being involved in and also competing in bodybuilding...but you “don’t care what his history is,” so there ya go lol. Hell, you’d prob think I’m on the juice too ha

This is only meaningful if you add his height. I went sub 12 at 220 lbs and sub 10 around 190-195 lbs, but I'm also 6'3". It makes a big difference. If he looks like that at 195, he must be very short.

WHAT?
This guys annoying but Sander's isn't. Give me a break. Now if you said taren is annoying I would agree. Don't get me wrong I wasn't thinking he would go under 12 but come on.

Never heard of him before today, and no idea what natural does or does not look like. All I know is in every picture it looks like a regular dude’s head photoshopped into a He-Man toy 😂

---

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Kinda funny his company sells supplements and "gear"

Btw, it doesnt matter what his history is if hes able to carry more muscle than people who compete as natural. Plenty of others out there on the internets don't think he's natty.

Maybe all of us PA boys look like that

He’s 5’ 10”. So at 7lbs per inch his 190 would be your 225

I enjoyed following his videos. Seems like a hard working guy with tons of self motivation. Power to him. Great performance. Not surprising after watching him put the time in to train. I also enjoy watching triathlon Taren. Both very motivational and I appreciate the YouTube content.

Long story, and yes Taren jumping onto the fake fitness influencer market just feeds into the thing I hate about the bodybuilding influencer world.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Saw his vids pop up all the time on my youtube feed. I didn't follow his story but it seems like he was talking his training really seriously. Not surprised he did really well since he probably had crazy army like discipline from all his body building training. I know some bodybuilders and that shit is not joke with all that goes in to it. Seems like he just applied it all to completing an Ironman and he smashed it...good for him. I wonder will he stick to triathlon though or go back to the gym and continue to be huge.

Followed the whole series and thought he would do well in the race as taren prepared him well.

Happy for both of them. Nice job guys.

I did 11:37 in 2007 in Switzerland after having started training in 2006 without background in swimming and biking (only jogging) with 46 years old so what's the point?

Don’t worry, most people who know a thing or two about a thing or two know the guy “probably” is enhanced. That said, I think it’s really cool he did what he did as it gives another (likely skewed but still solid) data point for big guys/lifters getting into triathlon. I just crossed over from powerlifting/bodybuilding this year and would love to have more information and resources out there for people coming from that direction. I treated my entire first year of tri as a science experiment and got some really good insights that simply don’t exist online because nobody is really making this kind of shift. I hope we get more data points like him in the future.

Not really a suprise is it? He has that mentality to stick to a plan and go through with it. Also did the work of sorting out hydration, nutrition etc. so mostly a mechanical could have stopped him.

Actually, it's a big surprise. IM is no joke, and add on rookie 1st timerness and all that bodyweight as well as ongoing commitment to bodybuilding, it's even harder. Not impossible, but definitely farrrrrrr from average.

I'd bet most top tri coaches can't even get 5 of 100 typical bodybuilders to run a 5:35 mile after a year of run-specific training while still bodybuilding to the degree Nick did, and that's just the run. And that's not even before working on swimming and running.

[quote Nick2413

Don’t worry, most people who know a thing or two about a thing or two know the guy “probably” is enhanced. That said, I think it’s really cool he did what he did as it gives another (likely skewed but still solid) data point for big guys/lifters getting into triathlon. I just crossed over from powerlifting/bodybuilding this year and would love to have more information and resources out there for people coming from that direction. I treated my entire first year of tri as a science experiment and got some really good insights that simply don’t exist online because nobody is really making this kind of shift. I hope we get more data points like him in the future.[/quote]
Same here man. I came from a gym rat background. Treated the first 6 months as a big experiment. Signed up for IMTX 18 and started working with a coach. I got fused at a lot because i'd still lift 4-5 days a week. The hardest part for me is piecing together the nutrition. Not the race day nutrition but the day to day nutrition.

The day to day nutrition is definitely one of the hardest parts. I find that’s something that ends up being very personal. As long as you’re getting in enough calories there’s almost infinite ways to do it. Once you find a rhythm it’s not too bad though.

Great athlete! Hopefully he doesn't get tested though. Some grade-a anabolics pumping through those veins.

see that's the hard part. what is enough calories. my maintenance calories are around 2800. on any given day, between strength work and endurance work I may run 2k cal in exercise. eating 4800 cal of real, quality food and not being to full to train is impossible. you're gonna be in a big deficit. how much is enough to recover properly and still fuel the next days work. I can say the I've found running my macros at 50/20/30 or 40/20/40 seems beneficail

Finishing an Ironman is incredibly easy.

On the other hand, racing an Ironman is very very hard.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

This doesn't go to show that. This goes to show that finishing an Ironman is very easy.

Training doesn't trump equipment and equipment doesn't trump training. They are not mutually exclusive, you can do both at the same time.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

this is a version of "the uncanny valley" IMO and there's probably a very good lizard brain reason for it.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

It's not a surprise... he's a grown ass healthy athletic man. He merely finished an Ironman, something Sister Madonna Bulder and some 80yo men do with regularity.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

You're reading me wrong. I am saying I do NOT have a problem with Gatorade Zero, and I drink it all the time. If we are being specific, I actually prefer PowerAde Zero to Gatorade.

Also, FWIW, I do not think Nick is on any illegal PE drugs. I think the dude just honestly works out in the gym that much, and has been for years.

---

- Jordan

My Strava

I don’t think it’s too hard to eat that much and feel fine. For some people it may be harder but with dense enough food it shouldn’t be an issue. I’ve been in the 4-5k range (along with most other people on here) for the last decade and have actually struggled to cut weight because of cravings being so high otherwise, but training quality has been incredible.

looks like he's tabbed Infantryman, which is slightly different to serving in a Ranger battalion, although to an outsider it probably seems the same.

I'm speaking to the "social" component and the added distance from the mothership, not the service component. Infantry Platoon Leader is Infantry Platoon Leader in that respect.

Take my comments with a grain of salt... I'm quite a few years removed from keeping tabs on the social aspect and was the exact opposite of a tabbed infantryman.

E

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Doing a sub12 as your first tri with no endurance sport background and in a year of training while maintaining bodybuilding is NOT easy.

This ain't some 16 hr IM. Not impossible but would be a tall order.for most coaches.

I think going sub 12 in your first Ironman is impressive as nothing can prepare you for how your body will feel after that many hours of continual exercise. In my experience, it takes several years of the right training and experimentation to figure out what you need nutritionally in a variety of conditions and paces to be able to execute an Ironman well.

If you look at Nick's Marathon PB (3:58 in Feb '18) and compare that with what he did at IMFL (4:04), that's pretty much spot on pacing / nutrition without a power-meter and months of trial and error. It is far more common for folks to have sub 4hr marathon PRs and end up with a 5 hr IM marathon due to GI issues, cramping or other factors during their first IM attempt.

You went Ranger battalion or Green Beret?

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Neither, which is why I qualified my statements. Is there an issue?

E

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

This is patently false. Any reasonably stubborn, able-bodied person could complete an Ironman. Doubly so for this particular person, with his background.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

You're seriously telling me you could take any typical 200+lbs bodybuilder who keeps training in bodybuilding, that you can get them to a sub12 IM and 5:35 1-mile run time in 1 year of training?

We're not talking 'just finish IM' here. Not some 16+hr IM. Sub12.

If you think you can get over 50% of such big athletes with no endurance background to get there, definitely let us know what your special sauce is.

No issue. I thought you were making a jab at non spec ops personnel .... it’s all good -

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I was prepping for the Murph challenge last year and found a video on him doing one. Been following ever since.

I’m a skinny runner type and wouldn’t know a juiced physique from a natural one, but he seems legit to me. Just a lot of determination, work ethic and a shit ton of hard work. His IM prep was no different.

Hats off to TT for helping him out.

Yes


There's no special sauce... finishing an Ironman is easy.

But...

Why do you think only the coach got him to a 5:35 mile? Why aren't you attributing some of that to latent talent?

Why are you discounting the potentially 8 years of endurance training he did during his cadet and Army years?

Why are you giving so much emphasis to the 12hr mark at totally flat IMFL?

94 women went sub-12, including 12x W50-54 and 2x W55-59

567 men, not including pros, went sub-12, including 1x M65-69 and 5x M60-64, the winner of which who went 10:27

So that's like 25% of the field that went sub-12, and 50% of the field went sub-13.

I have no idea what his training was, or how good his coaching was, but I stand by the statement that the vast majority of reasonably stubborn, able-bodied males with his background could finish IMFL in 12 hours, *especially* if they're following some sort of structured training from a coach, with bonus points for being an former Infantry officer.

E

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Ok, if you are that great a coach, you really need to be a pro coach.

Seriously, if you can take any young male with no endurance background (which is definitely what you're claiming - you're not here saying nick bare has some special endurance talent that lets him outperform the vast number of his peers) and get them to sub12 in ONE YEAR, you will literally be the BEST coach on the planet. By farrrrr. Even if you could get 50% of your non-cherry-picked young male athletes to sub12 in one year, you woudl still be the best coach on the planet.

Sub12 is eminently doable for most healthy young males after more than a year of training. If they've done endurance sports, it makes it faster. But if you're going to claim Nick Bare falls in that category of 'has done endurance sports' or 'has significant talent in tri', that's a farrrr cry from what you're claiming that it's literally easy for any random young male to do that in 1 year.

If however, you're saying what I think you're saying and saying that:

- "Finishing a SLOW IM is easy" (like 15+hrs and NOT sub12 like Nick Bare), we agree.
- Finishing a sub12 IM is easy after only 1 year of tri training if you have some degree of talent (like Nick Bare might) and your 8 yrs of military training has a lot of overlap in IM so you have a big head start (I honestly have no idea if it does, I've never seen the details of his military training), we agree.

this has nothing to do with me! This is all about a) finishing and Ironman is easy, b) finishing IMFL in 12hrs is easy, and c) this dude being a Ranger-tabbed former US Army Infantry officer. He should have gone 10:30 with that background IMO. He got beat by a 65yo man I think.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Tell that to the over 25% DNF rate of IMCHOO this year.

---

- Jordan

My Strava

they weren't sufficiently stubborn...

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I don't know what the Ranger-type Army training entails, but if it has significant triathlon overlap (meaning you're wayyyy farther ahead than the typical young male starting IM training), it totally discounts your concept that finishing IMFL in 12hrs with only one year of training is easy, as it pretty much makes the point that you have to have significant overlapping background to make it possible.

I still think it's total bunk that finishing IMFL in 12 hrs after 1 year of training as a nontriathlete, will be easy for the majority of young men. If it were that easy, literally every male one-and-doner under 35 would do it just for the bragging rights. What is the sub12 finish rate at IMFL anyway?

I've seen some of his videos. For a dude his size, he can run quite well and efficiently. I was skeptical of his swim, but he's got the "don't panic" mentality to get through it, and he did put in the training needed for the rest of the race.

Now, he was in really good shape to start with. Hi story is a far cry from a couch-to-Ironman. His job, the nutrition/supplement company that he owns, looks like he doesn't have to do much work-- like he's got partners/subordinates that do the heavy lifting, and he can devote lots of time to training-- and has a fantastic gym on site that he can use all day long. Plus he's already well versed in nutrition and takes a considerable amount of supplements. I'm not going to accuse him of anything illegal, but he's way ahead of the average triathlete in terms of those supplements and general nutrition knowledge/practice to start with.

anyway, congrats to him, his results are well deserved. It will be interesting to see if he wants to continue in any other endurance sports.

---

-----

This is where you and I will continue to butt heads. Finishing an Ironman when prepared correctly is "easy". Especially for someone who did enough to turn professional for a small part of his triathlon career. But for the vast majority of Triathletes, finishing Sub 12 is impressive.

Now, onto Bare and his athletic background. For everyone else that doesn't seem to have an idea. If you're in the Army and you're in combat arms, you run a metric fuck ton. Now, the mileage isn't Marathoner level, but when I was a Recon PL my platoon ran 20+ miles per week. So then you do all of that for four years straight at varying levels. Then before he ever thought to do this Ironman Challenge, which based on his whole business aspect stuff this was just content for his youtube channel to help drive his bottom line (which is certainly ok). But I'd be surprised if he continues to do endurance stuff, although that I'd like to see because the lifestyle youtuber bullshit that permeates that portion of the internet is dumb.

But before the Ironman stuff he spent 6-8 months of doing serious run training building up to a marathon. Had to change up his overall physique and drop weight. But he still maintained significant mass (yet I'd say he looks more like he did when he was on active duty)...which I also found impressive considering the time he put down.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Good info, thx.

I would still say that he had a great result for 1 year of training if all that marathon training he put in (I don't know how seriously he did it though) only got him a 4hrish marathon - even WITH all that ranger running background.

To run your IM marathon nearly as fast as your open marathon time in your first IM is almost unbelievable unless you were totally sandbagging on your open marathon.

Based on what I could see, I'd say he was carrying at least 10lbs more at that marathon than he was for his Ironman. He probably talks about his weight on his videos, but I haven't followed it that well.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I know. This isn't the first time I've said this. Once every few years for the last 12 years, and people get uncomfortable every time. People wrap their entire identities into believing that finishing and Ironman is a thing in which their entire self esteem hangs in the balance, but it's not and it shouldn't.


Exactly. And he's like 25! Prime of his athletic life.


Depending on the command climate and his own interests he might have even run from 15 to 30 miles per week for 8 years, including cadet time.


Agreed. But the base was still there. And he lived an athlete's lifestyle


I dabbled in bodybuilding once... got to 195lbs and then ran a 3:12 marathon, on probably a similar training schedule to this guy. Weight adjusted it's probably my best result ever. I'm sure all of my bodybuilding/running peers in the Army could have done similar. 6-8 months of training for a marathon is a long time, or rather a lot of low hanging fruit can be gained for a newb like him.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Riiiiigggghhhttt - any 25-30 yr old dude running 30 mpw for a short period of time and who wasn't doing serious endurance sports beforehand, can run a 3:12 marathon.

You can believe what you want, but I doubt even the Dixon, Sutto, or even Salazar could even approach half those results given those limitations.

Pretty cool result.
But I don't like the message he's trying to deliver with this whole project.

To become a lifelong endurance athlete is a worthy goal. It's a huge self-actualization project and fun at the same time.

To complete an endurance challenge without proper training is not the same as become a lifelong endurance athlete. It's wrong and a bit stupid.

It reminds me of all charity Boston runners who have just started doing their runs on Washington street in Newton preparing for the next year. Many of them spend 6 month preparing for a marathon, finish it, have a horrible 5-6 hours and don't ever do any endurance sport after that.

you keep focusing on coaching... why? Also, if you're referring to the OP guy, 8 years of running isn't that short of a time.

I'm not the only one who feels this way. Back during the first running boom, influential people thought every American male who put the work in should be able to run a sub-3 marathon.

As for me, I had a) the same running background for the OP, b) followed a 20 week program from the internet (no coach!!!) for the first time ever, and c) had a relatively high VO2, which I bet is similar to the OP guy with his mile time at his weight. That said, 3:12 is horribly slow for someone with my genetics. I suck at running in other ways I guess.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

He’s run a couple marathons.
I believe he was 225 for the marathon and 195 for the triathlon

Approx 2 seconds/mile/lb = roughly 25 minutes

I think you need to recalibrate your sense of what 'average' is.

Your statement gives it away - if 3:12 is horribly slow for someone with your genetics (entirely possible, it IS horribly slow for most pro triathletes with pro genetics!), your sense of what 'average male' is will be hugely skewed given how easy it is for someone like you to hit those paces.

And that's where coaching comes in. It makes you put your money where your mouth is. Any n=1 moderately gifted runner could run a sub 3 marathon on not much training and say it's easy, anyone can do it like me. Zero of such people can successfully coach a group of 25 random young men with limited endurance background to ALL run sub3 marathons on 30ish mpw. It's a lot different if you're dealing with someone else's genetics, and not your own, and much more of a reality check on how broadly your ideas work for everyone else.

Solid point.

---

- Jordan

My Strava

Uh, for four years he ran a minimum of 20 miles per week. At a fast pace. Only since he got out did he limit how much running he did because "cardio is bad for gainz".

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I had a 200lb friend with NO endurance background race IM WI with 14 total months of training and two triathlons under his belt (sprint, HIM) and he went 11:06.

I raced the same year at 199lbs and my second full year of training in tris (ran high school XC) and went 10:38. I have to agree with Eric, especially given the course at FL.

---

Blog: https://davidkoppeltriathlon.blogspot.com/
Coaching: https://dkendurance.com/

Eric may be taking liberties with the word "easy" if you really want to nitpick, but your perspective on this subject is badly skewed. You might consider not projecting your own inabilities to a larger population of athletes. You have no clue. None.

Belief:
1) That many, many people could have gone faster with higher BMI's and less time training.
2) That this is true for most FOP AG triathletes and for all pros.
3) That better than mediocre athleticism is not, in itself, worthy of much thought.

Questions:
1) So what makes this guy noteworthy?
A) Disabilities:
I) Bodybuilding- is this an indication of below average athleticism?
"Fast for a bodybuilder..."
Is that like "fast for an old guy?"
Is this like being old, fat or disabled?
II) Self absorbed- is making videos and talking about your awesome health regime an indication of limited athleticism?
Is this guy "fast for a self absorbed fitness guru?"
III) Army (something or other)- is this an indication of a disability?
Is "fast for ex-elite Army" a thing?

B) Does he have some unique insight into the activity?
I missed this.

C) Does he have some special way of integrating the activity into his life or society at large?


Comment:
There should be more to talk about than athleticism, hard work, training, and the achievements of people who overcome obvious disabilities.

Still, this guy doesn't do much for me.

The answer to your questions I guess. He's a former infantry officer that is a fitness influencer/entrepreneur. That is the best way to describe him. He used his personality to start a supplement brand named Bare Performance Nutrition. Has a youtube following of 300k and instagram following of 160k.

That's pretty much it.

As I stated above, I doubt he becomes a lifelong triathlete and that this was just content for his business.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

So to summarize:
1) This guy is less talented than me and most long term ST posters?
2) This guy didn't train much and didn't overcome any noteworthy difficulties?
3) He doesn't have any particularly interesting philosophical observations?
4) He is wasn't particularly fast?
5) He is not especially committed to the sports?

6) But he does have some commercial interests that he is trying to hock?

Ok, feel free to enlighten me and clue me in on what I'm missing!

Yeah he doesn't look natty.





https://www.reddit.com/...ms_he_is_ex_us_army/

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I agree, I'm 48 years old 195 lbs and could easily break 12hr at IM Florida. And that's with two flat tires and really hungover.

People in here talking like he's 300lb, lol. He's like 35lb more than I am, and I'm skinny, and he's jacked.

Good for him. I bet he single handedly got hundreds or thousand of people to say, "Damn, maybe I could do a triathlon," and that's good for all of us. Dude's fit, worked hard, and got results.

---

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

You have no idea what it takes (and doesn't) to finish an IM sub 12, specifically 2019 IMFL in the day's conditions. You ascribe genetics to athletic failures to perform at performance levels well below where it's a significant factor, much less a determining factor.
1:30 swim. 6:00 bike. 4:15 run. Nothing remarkable about any of those either separately or when done in succession. Think you can change clothes twice in less than a combined 15 minutes? There's your sub 12. The reason more athletes don't pull it off is not lack of ability but poor execution in both training and on race day.

Ask yourself this question. All that advice you've been throwing around in swimming and running threads on this forum over the years...how's it playing out in your own race results?

I’m in a weird vortex right now where I see that forum members don’t realize how fit Army officers tend to be and also remembering how Army officers didn’t realize how unfit they were compared to even average runners, some of whom are forum members.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Ok, I admit that I didn't know that IMFL was SUCH as fast course - just looked it up, and it is considered very fast. So that does make his sub-12 less of a feat than compared to say, a challenging IM course. Still a solid result.

I'm perfectly happy with my own race results, thank you very much. Not that it should matter - the CONTENT of what's being posted is what's important, not how fast or slow one is, unlike what you seem to be implying. I'm not setting the world on fire or KQing, EVER, but I hit USAT 84 last year and the year before that in my mid40s, which is a respectably FOMOP which is is actually great for me given my life and genetic constraints.

Well, the minimum Army PT standards are a joke as to running. Maxing out the PT test is not bad.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

It seems weird to me.

The guy is not that fast.
Even for a heavy guy who doesn't train much.

People say:
"But the guy was an elite Army officer and body builder."

So what?
Are those things disabilities/excuses?

The fact that he was an Army officer and got his Ranger tab depicts some sort of tenacity to me.

The fact that he was a bodybuilder makes it seem like he may struggle with the run somewhat, but he got by.

All in all, he 'finished' a full IM. It is an accomplishment and seemed like an effective marketing ploy for his supplement company.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Yeah that’s the half of it... it seemed like 75% of everyone’s mental energy was spent harping about how important PT was and how tough everyone was with zero self awareness or context with the outside world.

OTOH, some people on this forum don’t appreciate the fitness/stubbornness/willingness/stupidity/craziness/planning and execution ability of any random Infantry Soldier/Officer who would do an Ironman drunk in the middle of the night on a dare and still make it to work the next day.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Well no, you didn't hit 84.xxx last year. You did that once in 2013 and then again in 2017. You went 85.xxx in a race last year. With your training volume (as described in numerous posts to this forum) you should be bumping up against 88-90, maybe better.

What Eric is saying is correct and should give hope to many athletes. He's not knocking the athlete's performance, just trying to reframe people's perception of what's possible for so many more than just the genetically gifted.

A friend of mine was a Troop XO at the time, I was the SQDN S1 at the time so we PTd differently...I ran four miles that day. I didn't see him until after lunch when he was in my office when he told me that he ran a half-marathon for PT that day...in the middle of the El Paso Summer. I know a lot of Infantry Officers, they're go-getters, many of them are mutants. I know guys that are bigger than Bare and run faster than Bare. They're just not triathletes and also can't swim for shit. But could they if they had the time rather than be in a Company Command? Certainly.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

haha yeah I’ve been around these military types for years - it’s hilarious.

It’s like a ‘failure is no option’ light switch in their mind - drunk or not - that flips on and they are just on it, no matter what.

I think the military draws that type. People that can do anything if needed, no matter what. Because the military is about war and war is unreasonable. To face the unreasonable, a soldier must be firm in values, which are typically God / Country / Family, in that order. After you are willing to face the unreasonable and are standing up for what you believe in, there really isn’t anything to stop you.

That’s the mindset.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

If you're now the expert on ME, then please enlighten me on what I should be doing with my current training volume to hit USAT 88-90, compared to what I'm doing now. Seriously, I'm all ears!

Lavendar???

lol

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

He's clearly athletically gifted. I don't mean to take away anything from anyone, but 11:30 at IMFL isn't exactly difficult for someone with any sort of athletic base. I walked most of the second half marathon and managed a 10:35 at 215lbs (none of which look like his weight). In 2013 I did my first at Florida at well. I went from a fat 280 to fluffy 230 that year and finished in 11:35. I followed him a bit and honestly thought he'd do better.

I don't see any kind of special feat by this person.
Well, not different from many, many people that got into the sport and are doing very well because they worked hard.
Except most people don't make as much self promotion of themselves, aesthetics, skin, "blah,blah" lifestyle, etc...

Louis :-)

Not surprised by the result.

You take an athlete that is successful in another sport and you bring him to triathlon.

He didn't need motivation.

He had the desire to train intelligently.

He knew how to prepare himself for the race.

He stood a better chance than many AG'ers that are first timers or recreational because of his background. Yeah it's not an endurance background, but still the point is that he is an athlete and knew how to get himself to where he was. It's the same process just in a different sport.

I was his weight/height when I got into triathlon although my bf% was a touch higher and although hes jacked, he is easily in the realm of potentially natural. He could be juicing, many in the industry are but his physique is not unrealistic naturally.

Although I had done a few triathlons before my first Ironman I was 5'9 185 and finished in 10:10 in Louisville within a year of triathlon with no swim, bike or run experience. Don't get me wrong it took dedication from his part but I feel like we are too easily impressed since the vast majority of people in this sport slack on their training and are happy with finishing. Most males are capable of a 1:20 swim, 5:30 bike and 4:00 run with a year of training.

Not interested.

That's what I thought. Pure speculation

The Bare is on the juice crowd is kinda funny. Some of us can pack on a bunch of muscle and keep it while endurance training. It’s genetic. Deal with it and except the fact that you are a skinny ass that can’t accept that people can be big and perform at an endurance event. To the douche canoe “coach” that keeps insisting that finishing a full distance tri is “easy”, just shut up. You sound like an endurance sport elitist prick. For most who enter, it isn’t easy to balance a real life and prepare for a race of that distance.

Guess I'm too easily impressed, or maybe I under valued the advantage of having the luxury of total dedication to Ironman training. I think most people are satisfied with just finishing because they aren't truly dedicated to triathlon and maintain their work commitments, family commitments, etc. Yes, Nick's life and experiences are more suited to meeting the consistency/tenacity required by Ironman, so he's probably not the "average" first time Ironman.

I do think he's bridging the triathlete / cross-fit divide as to what's better for fitness. I still get agitated when they cross-fitters say their the fittest athletes when most of them can't do any endurance event beyond 1 hour.

I'm not "insisting", I'm telling you how it *is*. Hear me now believe me later. If I sound elitist, that's just you projecting yourself onto me.

The point is, people need to reframe their thinking. If they buy into the marketing hype, and convince themselves finishing an Ironman is hard, then it will be hard. But if they frame it differently, looking at it objectively that finishing an Ironman is easy, then it will be easy.

If you insist on your limitations they are yours to keep.

Good day

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Triathlon. Where 200 lbs is considered really big.

smh

His videos have been popping up in my recommended. I might give it a watch. It's a good result, but not something to be blown away over IMO. I'm 32yo 5'11" 190lbs. An average guy with average athletic ability. I went 6hrs flat at Traverse City 70.3 (slow course) with 8 months of training off the couch with no coaching or outside help. Prior to 2019, I'd run a total of 300 miles spread over 4 years, swam 0 yards in my life, and maybe road a total of 200 miles with no training goals. I road an endurance roadie with clip-ons. I think if I had 6-8 months of run training in the bank before I started tri training I could've gone 5:30. I know I shoudn't compare a half to a full, but it just seems like his finish is what most would expect for an exceptionally healthy young guy with a high level of training discipline.

How much faster could he have been with a better bike fit. Alot of waisted energy.
Fun to follow none the less.

What an odd conclusion you've arrived at!

When USAT scores for IMFL come out, maybe you could have a look at the scores for athletes just getting in under the 12hr mark. Then take your own best ever USAT score and find an athlete who scored about the same...look at their finish time. That's not a complete picture but will give you a good starting point from which you can become better informed on the subject being discussed.

I'd make one more suggestion. Figure out what your primary limiter is in terms of triathlon performance and get about the business of addressing that limiter. Hint...it's not S, B, or R.

It's not ME that was speculation - it's YOU that are the one that assumed out of the blue that I should be an 'All-America' AA-score 90+ USAT athlete despite me never getting there before. And then I asked you why you made that assumption, and you passed. That's not an odd conclusion for me at all to say it was speculation on yor part.

And you clearly say my limiter is NOT S/B/R, so you clearly DO have something in mind, so I'm also right about the speculation part.

And for the record, my USAT scores would correlate to plenty faster than 12hrs @ IMFL (I did look it up), even though I continue to make the point that one's race speed is irrelevant, and one's concepts/ideas being discussed are the relevant ones. Almost all of us can smoke a 60-year old nonpracticing ex-top triathon coach far out of their prime, but they obviously would be better judges than us. Similarly, a gifted 16-year old runner can throw down 15:xx 5ks with <30mpw of almost random training, but would be one of the absolute worst resources to go to and emulate for training as an adult athlete without their gifts.

Well one thing's perfectly clear. Neither of us knows what you are talking about. I'm OK with that but it should bother the hell outta you.

No, I know exactly what I'm referring to, specifically your ad hominem and weirdly detailed posts about me that clearly imply I'm some clueless newb that doesn't know how to get decent results in any tri.

That's what I responded to in my last few posts.

From your own recent posts that I responded to:

You have no idea what it takes (and doesn't) to finish an IM sub 12, specifically 2019 IMFL in the day's conditions. You ascribe genetics to athletic failures to perform at performance levels well below where it's a significant factor, much less a determining factor.

Well no, you didn't hit 84.xxx last year. You did that once in 2013 and then again in 2017. You went 85.xxx in a race last year. With your training volume (as described in numerous posts to this forum) you should be bumping up against 88-90, maybe better.

Ask yourself this question. All that advice you've been throwing around in swimming and running threads on this forum over the years...how's it playing out in your own race results?

Is there something special about the backstory? I dunno, not really impressed at all without more backstory? How about Kevin Taddonio going 9:07 in his first Ironman (AZ), shortly after doing his first triathlon, in 2009 when bikes weren't as fast. No swim background, no cycle background. Takes 1st in the very competitive M25-29, qualifies for Kona. I believe Ian Mickelson had a similar story although I think he had some swim background.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

This is impressive.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

How did you manage to use accept wrong and right in the same sentence? The training isn't easy, but he clearly did it. You can watch it all on Youtube. The fact that an already athletic individual dedicated time to train for an Ironman and completed it, isn't impressive. His time isn't bad, but it isn't exactly worthy of its own thread here at all.

There's no backstory.

It just happens that us MOPish AGers are very interested in long-term training chronicles that are excellently documented in detail, in high quality audio and video, with a good, experienced presenter, and who is NOT some obviously gifted triathlete or endurance athlete.

I think nobody was really expecting him to do really well in this race - that was kind of the point. He specializes mainly in a sport that's diametrically opposite to the triathlon body type, has no swim/bike background and very limited run background, so it's quite entertaining to follow how he does as he tries something totally different out and documents it carefully.

I had no idea who he was until near race day, but I did find it entertaining to go and watch bits of his well produced training videos chronicling his buildup as a tri rookie. And yeah, I expected him to go a lot slower just due to his lack of tri experience (1st tri) - apparently his coach Taren did as well so I'd say contrary to the few folks here who say "pfffh...ANYBODY can go sub-12 in their first IMFL without trying too hard", it was impressive enough to most AGers.

Agreed. Seems like Ashley Horner.2 to me. I’ll give him some credit for apparently actually doing the distance and not making outlandish, ridiculous claims, but doesn’t the world already have an adequate number of “influencers?”

You've hit it on the head here. When I went into the officer pipeline for the Army I was a collegiate triathlete, and had raced a bit on the draft legal/junior elite side at the tail end of high school.

I met people who exceeded my best expectations for how fit an officer could be, and others that made me question everything I previously perceived about fitness culture in the military (incredibly unfit...22yo men not breaking 16min for 2mi). One of my closest friends was a freak, not unlike Nick Bare...deadlifting 405 and cranking out sets of 20 pullups, but also running his 2mi in 11:15 at 5'10"/200#. He's infantry now. Those people exist, folks. I have no doubt that if he cut 20# and ran more than 1-2x/week (I recall him once referring to a 15mi week as big mileage for him), he'd be sub-10 for 2mi and under 16 for 5k.

I was not a prodigy of any sort, and certainly not for anything shorter than 30min, but I can count on 1 hand the number of people who have outrun me in the Army. If you run under 12:00 for 2mi as a male officer, you're freaky fast by Army standards.

The transfer goes the other way as well, just like you say. Those sub-12 "freakishly fast runners" get whooped in any open event.

---

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"

Which would be fine if there was any self awareness but instead everyone harped on PT and idolized “fit” soldiers.

By that time in my career i was hitting PRs on the PT test or had met *real* PT studs but also had become sort of stealthy about it. So I would just listen and chuckle and drop the odd feat of strength.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Looks like Nick has the endurance bug. New youtube video he said he is going for a boston qualify with a sub 3:00 marathon in 14 weeks, and then he said after that an ultra marathon.

I have to admit, I found myself hating his videos, but still coming back to see what he had to say.

The one thing I couldn't understand was his bike fit, it was terrible! Where was Taren at on that one? I do not know how he even managed to sit like that for 5:48.

I'm gonna say his chances of BQ in 14 weeks are slim and none.

Ridiculous, but glad he's sticking with endurance stuff.

I'll give him well over 50 percent chance of the bq. He's got enough run miles now to do a proper 14 week marathon build and he already has the leg speed to do it (he ran a 5:36 mile recently).

I just watched his mile he ran, and no way that translates to 26 miles at 6;51 pace. His HR was 178 and did not drop much right after, which would have indicated some endurance fitness for running. In 14 weeks if he loses 25 lbs and can get his body to somehow run 50+ miles a week at 7 minute miles, then maybe a couple % chance..

Oh shit, did I just weight shame him, sorry dude. But that body is not going to run 26 straight 6;51 miles, not in 14 weeks anyway. I dont mind him setting lofty goals though, once he misses them he can then sit down and actually figure out how he can achieve them, just not in the blink of an eye on a sports timeline..

I forgot what his bq time should be.

If it's 6:51 per mile then yeah that's a tall order.

I forgot and was assuming he needed to run a 7:10 to 7:14 which I think he might be able to do

So in the Army...we know how to run a mile fast, two miles fast, four or five miles pretty fast...but we never have the time to train to run 10 miles fast. So he's had the engine to run sub-6 miles for a hot minute.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

He can't do it now but with his Ironman base and 14 weeks of good marathon training he should get pretty close given his leg speed. Still, if it's a sub7 mile he needs it's gonna be tough.

He said in his video that in 14 weeks it's going to be his first attempt - he was already signed up for the Austin Marathon back before IM training. His company/brand hosts a group of people for it or something like that. But he said he was going to keep signing up for marathons until he got it, and only then would he make the switch to an ultra. So he's not necessarily saying he's going for one and done in 14 weeks, just that he already had signed up for the Austin Marathon, so he was going to try then.

He's working off his IM base. He had a video where he was running 7:4X's or something for 13 miles chilling in z2. Switching his focus away from swim and bike, losing some more weight, and putting in more miles, he's going to be setting himself up for at least a shot a success in Austin, definitely beyond with his mentality and drive.

---

____________________________________________________
Ever Grateful, Ever True.
Boiler Up.
Hammer Down.
Hail Purdue

You're probably right, but there are guys over 200 lbs who run sub 3 hour marathons.

More power to Nick Bare, nothing against him, but he's not that big and not that fast and I kinda don't get why he gets attention for being middle of the pack. I guess he looks good and is good at youtube.

I'd bet there were guys who finished ahead of him in the ironman and were heavier and had less experience.

Again, good for him. At least he does real events instead of clearly making up outrageous times with no evidence like some other guys.

You're probably right, but there are guys over 200 lbs who run sub 3 hour marathons. //

Of course there are, that is not the only reason this is a pretty out there goal for him. Watch the video, it is an almost all out effort to run that higher 5 minute mile. To run 26 6;51's, he would need to repeat those high 5 minute miles as intervals, probably at least 10 0f them. There is nothing in his form that looks bad, its just that stringing together that many sub 7 miles is not just a matter of a 14 week focus. Unless of course you are an ex top runner, then it would be a practical plan, which I dont believe he is.


But I'm not here to throw water on his goals, I'm just commenting that they may be a bit aggressive. But ok, he seems like a real plodder, and if he misses, he will keep at it. At least he will have his benchmark in which to go forward. It really is hard when you have never actually done a racing marathon to know what it feels like 20 miles in. Just one of those things everyone has to experience for themselves, kind of like relationship advice..

I know a guy who, in his 50's, was a ripped 200 lbs body builder type, and qualified for Boston on his first marathon. He was an ex-NHL player with a work ethic that would make david goggins look meek, so, kind of an outlier, but still... some big guys can run (and suffer).

All that being said, I would be surprised if Nick qualifies in 14 weeks. It's just not enough time. However, he did say that he will continue to lose weight, and if he doesn't qualify in 14 weeks, he will keep training until he does. I think the likelihood of him qualifying is pretty high, he just may not get it on his first crack.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

lol nice one

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

It sounds like Nick has developed an endurance base - he has the engine - he needs to cut more muscle in 14 weeks and likely gain sustainability at 6:50 pace.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I wouldn't bank on him cutting that much muscle. Contrary to what people think muscle does not melt off from endurance exercise. My first year in the sport after leaving bodybuilding I was training 20hours a week and I lost zero muscle and it wasn't until I dropped my protein intake down and cut lifting completely that I started to shed upper body muscle.

He was an ex-NHL player with a work ethic that would make david goggins look meek


Kelly Buchberger?

I know a guy who, in his 50's, was a ripped 200 lbs body builder type, and qualified for Boston on his first marathon.//

But isnt that a 3;30 to 3;45 time? A lot different from breaking 3 hours, and 50 really isnt that old for someone that has been, and stayed fit their entire lives.

He ran something like a 3:05. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see him cross the line myself.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

Ya, 3;05 is super solid, for a thin 50 year old too!!

A sub 3 marathon would be MUCH more impressive than his IMFL time. I'm about his size, albeit most of mine isn't muscle, and it took a lot more for me to go sub 3 than it did to go well under his time.

He did a mile yesterday in 4:53 at 194lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/...;feature=emb_rel_end

Given how muscular he is, I think it is pretty impressive. It looks like he did it in a pair of pink Next%.

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Strava link?

Are you guys really on the OMG this is so impressive train? There are guys like this in every battalion in the Army. He's not that special, but I do like seeing another big dude killing it in Triathlon though.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Unfortunately he doesn't post to strava. I'm a little dubious of some of his workouts but it does appear impressive. An 18:28 5km and sub 5 min mile are likely faster than many (most?) on here can do. Having not been in the Army I can't comment on 'he's not that special'. But for being 6ft and 200 pounds he's doing pretty well.

He seems like he's got a good bit of speed but I still don't see him getting sub 3hr any time soon.

A sub 5 mile is a pretty strong indication that a sub 3 marathon is achievable with appropriate training.

I know exactly where he did it if you want a google map screenshot, although it's tough to figure out precise stopping point. Very flat area inside Zilker Park, maybe slight uphill at the end. While it is impressive, not sure he can do it without a pacer since was much slower on a track recently. (Also I think he gave up tri's just to focus on running since that's what he is good at. His swim and bike were pretty garbage)

I like the commenters on his video that point out he's a dick for running in the middle of the road and then just sitting in the road when he's done (he's literally right next to an open field/ parking lot).

---

-----

I'm a sub 18 5k, and really don't think I could get under a 5min mile right now. Him doing that is pretty crazy and I only weigh 155

---

IG - @ryanppax
http://www.geluminati.com
Use code ST5 for $5 off your order

I personally wouldn't take anything away from him for having a pacer, he still has to run it. I do wonder about doing it on roads using GPS as the benchmark. He had a nice little cushion on the 5:00, so probably fine, but if you ran 4:59 using a gps watch would you really count it?

---

Dimond Bikes Superfan

We had several freaks in my Cavalry squadron that were his size or bigger that could run under 11-minutes on the Two-mile run for the APFT. So the running isn't really that impressive because I know how much running he has done in his prior life. He had a strong aerobic base. I'm more impressed by the cycling and swimming and maybe because I suck in the pool.

You then go look at the upper echelon units in the Army or elsewhere and freaks in your line unit are a dime a dozen and aren't the freaks of those units. EricMPro will also attest to that. The guys at the upper tier of those units workout twice a day with heavy aerobic loads in the morning and then heavy strength training loads in the afternoon. It's impressive, but they're also treated like professional athletes with nutritionists and athletic trainers assigned at the unit level. Whereas nutritionists don't touch line units and only come into play for the guys on the fat boy program.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

194 is not that heavy. My son ran a 4:28 1500m (~4:49 mile) at 230 lbs at the end of a decathlon without doing any distance training. I would think a guy 36 lbs lighter doing distance training could run under 5.

nick symmonds on track with spikes = 4:39
nick symmonds on road with those pink trampoline shoes and down hill = 3:54

There is nothing remotely normal about a 230lbs guy doing 'no distance training' and running a 4:49 mile. The vast majority of folks on this forum and even letsrun who train exclusively for fast running can't even do that even with maximal training and 150lbs or less body weight.

He is, admittedly, a freak of nature.

Imagine what Slowtwitch would have been like when Armstrong landed on the moon... "its really not that special, I know a guy who flew to Mars on a hang glider, and held his breath the whole way"...

Congratulations on your incredible sperm.


Why do people think triathletes are so elitist and pretentious???

This thread. This freaking thread right here is why no one wants to start this sport. Bunch of pointy end assholes tearing down someone down for no reason other than they can.

"My son ran a 4:28 1500m (~4:49 mile) at 230 lbs"

Really? I am not sure I believe that.

---

________________
Adrian in Vancouver

Pretty much. This place is great isn't it.

I was pretty surprised and impressed with his sub 5 mile.

However, go back and watch his 5 KM video on the track, look at where he starts and then look at where he stops, I caught this immediately when watching. He measured his distance based on his Garmin, but clearly stops probably 50 meters short of running a full 5 KM as he was somewhere down the back straight.

It doesn't change his time that consequentially, so those that are impressed with 18:28 would likely be equally impressed if it was actually 10 seconds slower, I guess my beef is that he refers to this as a PR as it isn't accurate.

If he runs a sub 3 marathon at 195 lbs, I'd be impressed, as fit as he looks, he's still carrying a ton of extra upper body weight that isn't making life easier for him as a runner.

Ok. You are impressing me. You came back with irrefutable evidence. Was he 230 pounds there?

If so, imagine the time he could pull off by dropping a ton of weight and becoming a runners build? He would be world class.

2 seconds per mile savings for every pound lost has always seemed accurate from my perspective. Naturally that would place him under the world record, but at that level the algorithm breaks down. But clearly he would be world class.

I am 226 pounds and my best 10k was 32’13” when I was 168 pounds. At 226 pounds, I move very pedestrian speed.

---

________________
Adrian in Vancouver

My point wasn't that it wasn't impressive. I was always impressed by what some of my guys and guys like him could do. My only point is there are a lot more guys like him in Army. That's why I called him a freak, he's exactly the type of guy physically and genetically the Army needs in leadership. But he chose to be entrepreneur which is cool too.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Yes, he said he weighed 230 the next day, which he thought was a bit heavy. By nationals a month later, he said he was closer to 220.

He had no interest in distance running. That body worked well for him in the decathlon even though he was much bigger than most.

Here's a shot of him at nationals:

height? still impressive. what is he up to now?

6'5" (higher BMI than Nick Bare)

He's been coaching.

My roommate at the FBI Academy was a big guy. 6’3” 220+ kind of guy. Also 33 or 34 years old at the time.

We did our first PT test on day two, which included a two mile run. I just figured I’d run with him. He takes off like a maniac. I kept pace with him for two laps. Then I need to walk for a lap, and I had to slow jog the rest of the way in for like a 14:30. He finished in 10:03. Turns out he was a former D1 cross country runner for a well known Big 10 school. Then became a USMC sniper, and weapons expert. He was also the two best shots in our class. Him left handed was the best shot, him right handed was the second best. He was a better shot than any of our firearms instructors and some of them were high level competitive shooters, including an Olympian.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Damn, how Greg Hughes didn't make his way up from the boathouse and tranq your son and force him to row, I don't know!

That is one genuinely impressive athlete.

*Skips forward to 3:40: "That dude (in the white) is in no way 230lbs"
*Skips forward to 4:55: "My god that dude (in the orange) is a tank!!"

Yeah when you said 230, my first thought was that he had to be 6'5" or more. He was carrying a lot of muscle in that race. The ending was awesome! He was booking it - great race.

Cheers

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Story:

At an indoor meet, coach had him running a 1000 or 600 or something. He was in there with a bunch of middle distance runners. I'm in the crowd gathered around the track. The crowd of course is 99% athletes from other teams. Anyway, as they're lining up, someone says "that guy looks like Shrek". Everyone laughs. The race starts start and I start hearing "look at Shrek!" and by the end as he's winning his heat (not the fast heat) lots of guys going nuts and screaming "Go Shrek, Go Shrek!".

Why is this even a thing?

I ran 10:40, twice in a row, at my very last PR test. Big whoop. It’s no reflection on me, just genetic. Random luck.

Second and third, given that this is the year of our lord 2020, anything anyone like this guy says should be taken with a huge lump of salt, or just disbelieved outright. Those who know *know* exactly what kind of gear IG influencers are on and we all know what’s going on at the Ranger and Infantry and Cavalry gyms... it’s all there in plain sight of you know what to look for.

Finally, either he’s genetically gifted, in which case good for him, genetics, or he’s the only one of his anabolic influencer friends who had discovered blood vectors, in which case also good for him, influencers gonna influence.

Unrealistic body image BS is so insidious. Enough.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

There’s nothing special, don’t feed the machine. Instagram unrealistic body image supplement complex.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Alternate take: Given that you can get T from any random doctor and given what’s going on in masters amateur sport of late, not to mention the depth of talent historically on this forum, maybe Instagram influencers can go somewhere else with their unrealistic influencing?

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

It’s not surprising someone like him would short a 5k and call it a PB

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Leadership?!?! That’s laughable. They’re completely unrelated.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Must have missed the part where Bare posted here.

Although true, not the overall point.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

i think the point is more that nick bare is new to endurance training, period.

but watching him run, he actually looks pretty good. nice turnover, good recovery and knee drive.

Some guys get ALL the genetic breaks. A bike racing buddy played O line college football (granted he was small for it), is an FBI agent & was on SWAT team and a hostage negotiator, did 10 hours at IMLP, holds a 40k ITT national record, and won a geezer ITT world championship. I'm happy to get out of bed without falling on my face.

You must not understand “influence”

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Dude we were sold a shit sandwich. The “fitness” they tried to cram down our throats in the 90s and 2000s was laughable, and as we now know because we have been exposed to the outside world they weren’t even that fit in the first place. Kids coming back from downrange in the 2010s were all jacked and swole from 8hrs sleep most nights and no PT and no formations. Even for the actually fit people, the ones you and I are thinking about, zero correlation between Big Army fighting and being some sort of exercise fit.

I’d imagine fitness is thru the roof right now though with the Coronavirus lockdown and PT on your own.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

No, he has YEARS of endurance training, specifically Running.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

well his solid run form makes sense then.

I think the trick is to be lucky enough to be exposed to someone like that so you can gain perspective. As mentioned up thread there are "freaks" in the Army that are visible to all and you might think that's as good as it gets but then you meet someone completely unassuming and anonymous that is competing at an elite level in some hobby or doing things way beyond what all the braggarts in your circle are doing and then you realize what's really out there and what "talent" really is.

My favorite anecdote about this sort of thing is triennial rising from the couch my Cat 1 buddy does... he's old and out of shape and haggard and brittle and slowly but surely knocks the rust off and posts the Velodyne workout files. He *starts* at 320w at 155lb, something that took me a lifetime of training to get to and makes me pretty OK on a bicycle. That's his *floor*. The watts keep going up or the 320w keeps getting extended out and pretty soon he's back to "normal". Once he gets there he goes back to the couch for another three years.

And that's just a single skill guy, not some athletic polymath.

I've met a former D1 O-line guy turned skinny endurance athlete too... those guys are just out there.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Yeah, and the issue with triathlon is that it self selects a bit...there's a large cost associated with being fast in this sport, so the somewhat fast guys are usually pretty certain they're great athletes. Truth is, it's a small pond and there's an ocean out there.

I've met some pretty incredible athletes in the Army - one of my best friends in college was a lightweight rower in high school (6:30s for 2k), also played hockey, went to college and packed on 40# in 4yrs, dude was built like a bodybuilder. Usually ran 11:20-11:30 for the APFT 2mi at ~200#, and his only consistent endurance work was a weekly 30-45min run, sometimes a cardio workout that alternated a stairclimber and the erg for 90min, and occasionally I'd get him out for a 7-10 miler. He did some HIIT finishers for his lifting, but largely trained like a bodybuilder. Watched him run low 18s for 5k at that size. Was able to do 10x10 deadlifts starting at 315 and progressing to 345-365 (not a ton of weight, but the hybrid nature of the guy makes it crazy to me). He's getting into triathlon now, and I'm going to guess he'll pick up the bike pretty handily with his rowing background.

There's a whole world of impressive athletes out there, and a lot of folks on ST hate acknowledging the existence of true athletic talent ("I could never do that - there's no way anyone could!").

---

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"

That is not just here on ST but in the triathlon community in general because there is this ongoing narrative that somehow all Ironman triathlete are one step away from being superheroes.If you look at Nick Bares general training history and his years of consistent workload then moving to Ironman and knocking out an 11:28 at the end of a focussed training block is not really that amazing.Yes he carried a lot of muscle mass into the event but it is most likely that muscle mass which gave him the strength to hold it all together on the day and not end up doing the slow Ironman shuffle while crying into his Gatorade from mile 10.

I'm still confused about this 'muscle strength' thing translating into terms like "Yes he carried a lot of muscle mass into the event but it is most likely that muscle mass which gave him the strength to hold it all together on the day and not end up doing the slow Ironman shuffle while crying into his Gatorade from mile 10."

As far as I understand, the ability to go ironman-long and slow is almost entirely a feature of endurance. Having bulky muscles, even a little bit of bulk, is detrimental to that.

I've heard coaches throwing around the concepts of strength training so you can 'last the distance' at racing such as IM, but aside from a last-second burst of speed, I'm not understanding how all that short-rep strength and muscle bulk does anything whatsoever for the IM endgame shuffle.

(I understand how it would be super helpful for the end sprints in short or even long tris - just watching the Brownlees get smoked beyond belief in a track sprint on that old TV show by the boxer was enough proof of that!)

..

Yes,having bulky muscles will affect performance in endurance sport and that is most likely why Nick Bare went 11:28 and not 10:28 or faster.Lets not forget that he raced Ironman Florida which is flat so he really only had to "fight" his weight on the run.If he had raced on a hilly course he would most likely have been much,much slower.

Holding your form while at the back end of an Ironman is important to successful performance and that is why athletes continue to add "strength training" to their programs .It is the ongoing debate over definitions and what constitutes endurance strength training that is the centre of all the debates (especially here on ST).

If you look at Nick's split times for that race,again a flat one,you will see that they are not that amazing..
Swim: 1:17:57
Bike: 5:48:23
Run: 4:04:53
+ transitions..

The amount of 1-uppers on this site is crazy. Everyone’s a ceo banging 10s

haha... in my 20th year in the Army I took my final PT test and maxed and PR'ed the run... 10:40. Came back into the office and started talking to my old E7 and we got to talking and eventually I pulled it out of him that he did a 9:30 at Basic or AIT or something.

There's always someone faster.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I don't think it is that, I think this a fantastic effort, but genuinely just not that impressive.

In my view, people on this forum greatly over emphasise the important of weight for non-competitive age groupers, probably because they are naturally smaller or at the sharp end of their age group.

I became interested in the idea of doing a Ironman, I was muscular and 210 pounds at 6ft 3.5, had never done a triathlon, had just bought a road bike, had never swum OW, had never run more than a half marathon. I downloaded a plan off the internet, read some books, spoke to people I knew were quick, committed to training and prepared diligently. I did some halfs for practice (4:51 and 4:45) and ended up doing a 10.35 in Italy on a road bike with clip ons.

Now I have some experience, I'm slightly lighter, I've got a TT bike, I'll be aiming to get to the sharper end of my age group. But I still see strength and height as an asset as opposed to a hindrance and it is probably one of the factors allowing me to be strong on the bike and quickly get up to a 357 FTP which is still rising. I know on the run it is a different story.

Once you take away the weight element of Nick's story, you have a guy who is new to Triathlon doing a 11:28, a great effort, but not spectacular.

I recognise this post might come across as massively self indulgent but hopefully that background illustrates my point.

The irony of this post.... Oh my lordy
..

It wasn't lost on me, refer to the final sentence. My point still stands......

One interesting point is that Nick Bare never said he finished fast. Never even bragged about finishing.

He just made a video journal of his training and the race.

Typical ST going on the attack on a guy. At least he wasn't using fins.

He just ran a sub 3 hour marathon

Pretty, pretty, pretty good.

Time? Was it an official sanction race?

---

__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

I have to say I’m not.

I'm a MOP athlete, my first year of any sport was 2007. I was running from January, bought the bike in May, ran a M in June, did an Oly July, HIM in August and two weeks after that my first IM in 11:18

No heart rate or power, no training plans, just training for enjoyment.

I then took over ten years to beat that time despite having loads of gear, training plans and tools.

Far too much is made of the distance and training / equipment requirements.

If you’re just active and healthy, you’ll do ok.

No, its a course he set up, largely down hill, we don't know for sure if it was the distance

Do we know it was largely downhill? I would have expected a 4x10km course kind of thing?

It wasn’t largely downhill. It’s on strava. Net 50 feet downhill. It does look like most of the downhill was in the second half of the race. That was smart.

Honestly unsurprised at his running ability. He was an Infantry Officer and a Ranger School Graduate. I was an Armor [Cavalry] Officer, and the amount of running I did was a lot. The amount of running the Infantry tends to do, even in an Armored Infantry unit is A LOT to BIZARRE.

EricMPro and I have talked about this a bunch on the board. The guy has YEARS of running stimulus in his body.

Also, looking at his rig now, he's downsized significantly. He may look huge, but he's just shredded. Which takes a lot of work. But it's great marketing for his supplement company.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

he did it in the nike % bounce shoes. for lightweight runner maybe makes someone 5-10 min faster in marathon. for heavy runner like him prevents more degradation, making him 20 min faster. He is a 3:15 guy, which is still a good effort.

i came from the world of powerlifting. these shoes are akin do the bench press shirt days. where the records broke over 1000lb, yet unassisted bench press stuck at 700ish for decades.

what the powerlifting world did is make different categories.... raw, equipped, tested/untested.

we get it. you dont like the nike shoes. horse has been dead for a long time

give it a rest

I don't have skin in this game one way or another, but I checked the course after he completed it.

It was an official "race" and was USATF certified, TX21008LAB

https://www.certifiedroadraces.com/...e/?type=m&id=760

you can run a certified course, but if its not sanctioned result doesnt count for certain things (records, boston maybe real lax on this)

There’s zero science that states the shoes improve running economy to the tune of 11% which is what you’re suggesting with those numbers.

And the original 4% was not 4% more than other shoes on the market either it was a couple of percentages over other current racers.

But I’m sure you know this.

Please post several results of runners who dropped their PR from 3:15 to 2:56 by wearing Vaporflys.

Thanks. I'll wait.

What's your PR for running to your computer any time you hear someone did anything in Vaporfly's?

If you ran in Vaporfly's, I bet you could get there faster. ;)

So he actually just did a fair effort on a fair course, and people might be a bit jealous he can do it, have a multimillion dollar company too. Basically just living the dream.
He has that elite .entality dedication to succeed.

This.

And also the conditions of the day were less than ideal. 35+mph headwinds for at least 12 miles and some brutal crosswinds throughout. Upper 60s-low 70s temp with humidity.

Fair effort. Fair course. 100%.

---

Team Saunders on YouTube

They are people I know in person, so I will not publicly shame.

Regardless.. would you people not give him as much credit for running 3:05--3:15 non mechanical doping shoes?

lol...okay.

Your argument is compelling.

You know a couple of people that ran faster in new shoes. Solid.

Likewise you can google the scientific studies. Kipchoge went from 2:04 to 1:59 with shoe change. I used to be part of usatf board. Saw the times drop with introduction of the shoes

I don't want to derail this thread which celebrates Nick's awesome achievements.

But....

I imagine there were no other changes Kipchoge made between running his 2.04 and his 1.59. I believe they were on exactly the same course, exactly the same weather conditions, with no pacers and no support, he hadn't done any extra training. The improvement was directly and solely related to his shoes.

Major marathons have pacers too

Of course they do. Just not 27 of them on rotation every few minutes.

But as I said, his improvement is all down to the shoes. Nothing else.

I agree with you. people are just jealous. Good for him to show with the commitment to hard work you can improve. Hope he kicks ass against all the platued athletes that just buy new $hit and train less and expect to be faster.

But I don't think they are jealous of his time. They are jealous of the attention he is getting for his time when they are as fast or faster, or have also improved. EVEN weirder.

---

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Not responding to anyone specifically, but it was a legit sub 3 hour marathon. I live in Austin and know all the people involved. He wasnt the only person running the course. Course was set up and measured properly so that people could run marathons and half marathons on it since so many races have been cancelled. To be honest the weather conditions were awful, wouldnt be surprised if all the people who ran could finish a few minutes faster with better weather.

Im the first person to call out BS when I see it, but this was legit.

---

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

.
.
Yeah mate ,I am with you on this as the dude has been over the top open with his prep for this thing and has YouTubed the shit out of it.

I think guys like Nick are great at doing what they do and that is marketing themselves as fitness guru's and that is a legit career.No claims of being the worlds greatest or fastest or Guinness record chasing or any of that shit so good luck to him.I sure wish I had the cash rolling in that he does for doing what I love.

What I do find amazing about guys like him and IronCowboy and Taren and Rich Roll and countless others like him is the army of rabid followers.It is such an interesting example of tribalism as people who,for the most part,have never met and will most likely never meet their chosen one,will model their life around what that chosen Guru says and does and defend them like they are part of their family. It fascinates me. Then we take that fan or cult like perception a little further and we see that these amateur level Gurus become seen as on par or even above the talent level of the top professional athletes in their chosen sport.I see this in our sport all the time and specifically in our little corner of the world in Ultra-Triathlon.As the fame grows then the perception of excellence grows and the hyperbole starts.If you dare to correct the false facts then God help you as you are now a hater.Apparently reality doesn't need to be a part of what reality style influencers do. Again, fascinating stuff.

So good on Nick for doing what he does but I really wish the dude would put his bloody shirt on a little more often! His video of this marathon challenge will be dropping on his YouTube channel on Sunday 7th Feb..Meanwhile here is a fun "Ironman Prep" video from him posted last week. That should infuriate enough people here to keep the thread alive..Hahaha.
" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Here I have some stats for runners pre shoe era (2015) and after. their training plans the same.

1. 3:00 -> 2:33
2. 2:45 -> 2:37
3. 2:44 -> 2:28
4. 2:56 -> 2:43

do you not notice how runners in these shoes finish the race, standing and smiling? before they would keel over and die at the finish.

With the exhaustive research you have attached i recommend you reach out to nike and have them rename their shoes 25% instead of 4%. For the conclusive 25% gains, im sure they will thank you. Maybe i just got duds because i own every 4% shoe and i didnt get those gains.

---

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.