just for perspective, its normal to consider slowing career advancement for quality of life. so i'd be wary of framing this in terms of triathlon.

if spending time outdoors with friends doing multisport improves your life, then it may very well be reasonable to value that on a scale that equals or exceeds the prospective upside of a potential career move. im facing the same q with academia vs career, and i'm struggling to not let raw math influence me too much.

they key question might be, in full honesty, how is your relationship with triathlon? it might be great. it might be dysfunctional.

How old are you / where are you in your career?

For me personally, I would never sacrifice professional career for triathlon but that's more because there are other hobbies / activities that I enjoy more. And for those I think I would, but it would be later in life (I'm in my late 20's) once I feel a bit more established and settled.

It's kind of like the above me posted with quality of life. I think to many people put their self worth and identity into their career/what they do. Personally, I will do a good job with the tasks assigned to me, but I value my free time (time I can ride my bike) a lot more right now. I've reached a point where consistently my job requires 40ish hrs a week from me and does not have a commute (I live in a large city that can have an hr commute each way). I value not having a commute as a $25,000 a year benefit that I get in terms of time. I've also reached a point where I feel like I'm making enough to live pretty comfortably. As long as my salary increases to match inflation, I don't think trying to advance my career is worth an extra 10-20,000 in terms of time I'll be asked to give up. I kind of rambled there, but I hope it makes sense. As far as age demographic, I'm in the 35-39 range.

I turned down jobs out of college w/ better immediate pay to invest in my long term quality of life, which included having free time to train. 10 year later it has really worked out.
I would still turn down a job that doubled my salary but made me sit in a room for 40+ hours a week and commute a half hour or more each way everyday.

Good post.

I've personally switched tracks/slowed career growth (US CPA) for personal well being. It so happens that my definition of personal well being includes being able to train 15-20 hours a week as well as spend time with my family, but remove triathlon and I still wouldn't want to allocate that time to my profession in exchange for $50k more/year or whatever.

If you look at the positions you're in line to be promoted to and are excited about that prospect then it seems your outside pursuits would be good taking a backseat. If you look at your future positions and think "that dude's life is not what I want for myself" then it'd be best to reassess things regardless of whether you're a triathlete or not.

Regardless, you need to consider where you're at as far as income (because money does matter) and determine whether that's more than enough or you need a higher baseline before adjusting.

I think people can overestimate the adverse effects of career advancement and a more senior job.

If you look at a more advanced job as being a combination of a greater salary to enable buying more toys, more interesting work, a better position in the hierarchy so you have more ability to come and go as you please and take a long lunch or come in a bit later after a training session, to make up the time later then it doesn't look so bad.
You will have a bit of a learning curve and hard adjustment period in the new role for a little while but it'll become as easy as your current role in no time.

Sure, there are some jobs where 80 hours a week is going to happen to you, but many jobs don't do this, unless you are mental or trying to kiss arses. For instance I earn a shit ton more than most of the guys in the office with me, and i am out of the door at the same time as them to drive to my better home in my better car to play on my bike that cost more than their car.


so, in summary - do both. Don't be scared of progressing in life. It's rarely a binary equation.

I was at that same crossroad about 15 years ago.

I took the road that offered less money, less stress, regular job hours and more time to devote to training/leisure.
At the time it was a hard choice. As I look back, I'm pretty sure it's one of the best decision's I've made in my life.

It's not about "training" per say, it's about getting out of the stress hole that comes with job advancement, job place politics, feeling like you have to move up the workplace ladder. It sucked and was eating me up.

I found a "grunt" job i'm happy with. I like going to work. I like working out 2x's a day. The only downside has been that it's easier to become overtrained…:-)

I have friends and relatives that are locked into the spiral that comes with reaching for that next/better job and more $$. I'm a bit jealous of their cars and 10K bikes (that they only ride on the weekends), but I look at them and am glad I choose the life I live.....40 hours a week, no weekend work, when I leave work for the day, I leave work behind.

Good luck

---

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

The first question that pops in my head is "are you crazy"?????

My career has not suffered one bit because of my chosen sport. At the end of the day the job pays for my family....not my hobby.

Same spot as you. I have an opportunity for advancement. Right now my hours suck. Around 55 a week, 30 min lunch breaks, 6 days a week most weeks. I start at 5am so no group runs, no masters swim, nothing. My advancement won't change the hours required but it will allow a little later start time and an hour lunch here and there. It's more pay but more expectation. Triathlon/Quality of Life has definitely taken a back seat with only one race early this year. My wife and I enjoy the sport and our 2 youngest kids do as well. I am leaning towards taking the promotion and giving my kids and wife a better lifestyle. Let us know what you choose and how the first few weeks go.

---

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

This this this!!! Unless the new job requires more travel, which can hinder effectiveness of training, I'd go for it. My experience has been exactly as above, first few months in new role requires a lot of extra time and effort, but it settles down quickly. Coming in a bit later due to a hard morning workout, taking an extra 15-30 min at lunch to squeeze in a swim works really well, especially the more strategic your role becomes and less task oriented. You'd be surprised what you can accomplish.

This is a crazy question to ask as a means of helping choose your own path.
It shouldn't matter in the least what other people on a triathlon forum have done or would do.
It's your life, make your own decisions! For one thing, all of our circumstances are likely somewhat different, but more importantly, we have different loves, fears, and values. What do you care what anyone else thinks? (aside from partner and kids if applicable). Do what YOU consider best for YOU. There's no need to seek approval here.

well said

cheers

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

My swim coach in college told us that you can be dedicated to 2 things and do them *well* simultaneously, but no more. This was his way of telling us that we could do well in school and athletics, but if we insisted on going out / partying it would mean sacrifices to swimming or our grades.

I think that advice still holds water as I sit here at 37, 15 years into my career, where I am working 50+ hours and training 15+ hours a week. Most of my sacrifice has been to my social life and not work, so I've been able to advance in my career and train simultaneously. If I had kids or wanted to go out more though, it would require a sacrifice from one of the other two.

I think you just need to provide an honest answer to what you would do with the extra time if you stopped training. If that 20 extra hours per week would help you significantly advance in your career and you value that, it's a no-brainier. For me, I probably wouldn't work 70-80 hours a week if I stopped training, so it would just be filled with some other hobby that wasn't triathlon.

---

Strava

Check: Yes. I choose not to put in crazy hours for my job in favour of more time outside work. I'm fine with that. There's more to life than working 70h/week. Unless that's what really makes you happy. seeing your kids grow up, doing the outdoor sports you like. I'm not waiting around until i'm old and/or my body is broken by the fancy office chair i'm sitting on 12h/day :-)

No Way. I did the opposite. Although a serious injury also helped in the decision. That aside, I dumped all competitive endurance sports, to commit everything to my job... but not just my job on a daily basis, but my job as a fast track to retirement. From the age 30 on, I worked all the overtime offered, and put the money towards my house/retirement funds. I sold back most of my leave, and put the money towards my house/retirement funds. I paid the house off, got completely out of debt, and prepared myself to pounce, at the earliest retirement opportunity possible. I had friends and coworkers think I was nuts. Some of them are still working, into their 60-70's. I was retired by 50, and have returned to the endurance sports I love. The only difference now, is that I can train as hard and as long as I want to, and everyday is Saturday. No regrets. Now that I'm here, I would do it all over again. I might also add, that when I was working, I basically had enough time to train, to be a "participant"... which was very frustrating, knowing I could have been a lot better. But as a well trained age grouper, I pretty much dominate my age group locally, and I have to admit, that is much more fun.

---

Athlinks / Strava

Hey Dave Ramsey!

---

Gone with the wind

Instagram: palmtreestriathlon

I'm in the middle of the pack and in middle age; I figure if I want triathlon to be a thing in my retirement I need to make sure I have a retirement for triathlon to be a thing in. So no, no career sacrifices for me.

My career is HR (in large companies so this may not apply to you) so I can say that most companies have a path/place for those who want to stay at a certain career level, typically for those that do not want to manage people and it is usually fine, as long as you are certain that continued advancement brings more hours or off-line availability expectations. I will say that a majority of individuals that I see who work more as they advance are those that typically do not set their own guardrails early on. I see an equal amount of people advance just as fast as "hard workers" (in quotes because working more <> harder working) who balance their lives and have guardrails set that people who they work for or with just know and those guardrails don't need to have reasons (always remember, nobody you work with or for has any right to ask or know what you do in your personal time). This, of course, excludes some of those careers where the expectation is pure work like say being a corporate lawyer in NYC or working at a major consulting firm.

If you work at a small company, I can't be sure but I would guess staying at a lower level may be worse for long term career prospects given that at most small companies, everyone knows everyone and more about everyone than one would at a larger company, i.e. people will know exactly why you are staying where you are and I think more people than not will have a negative view of that. Larger companies really allow you to hide it or you stay anonymous to the decision makers who really only look at your quality of work, not how you do it.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Assuming your current job remains status quo if you don't take the opportunity, keep and enjoy your free time.. to do whatever it is, tri, family, other fun hobbies, etc. Unless a move was truly life-altering for myself, like - retire in 5 years instead of 15 or 20, forget it. If it just means more work responsibility for a little more money, that sounds horrible. Don't let work suck you in. Near the end of your life, what will mean more, that you enjoyed time for yourself (and/or your family), or gave it to your company?

I went from software developer to minimum wage bike messenger. The tri folks of my age if not younger who stayed in the industry have grey hairs or are balding. Retiring younger with wealth but lack of health not worth it. I am doing fine living a minimalist life style. Sure I cannot afford the big races here anymore. Glad I am close to the border, competition in Mexico is tougher (in the running world at least ). It is cheap to race with prize money even for AG

This probably isn't your first crossroad nor will it be your last. What you base your decision on today will be influenced by events of tomorrow. Some of which you don't control, many you will control. So whatever you decide now can be changed if you want to down the road. Or, someone else may change their decision that impairs your initial decision. Be flexible. Know what you want. Pursue your happiness. Life is short. I chose advancements earlier in the career. Actually opened opportunities I never knew existed for work, family, and triathloning. Trained and raced more intensely in shorter and fewer events when work required more time. Met new people and raced in new places. Family joined me more often than before and we experienced new everything. A few years down the career path, took lateral positions. Allowed more time for tri training, racing, and traveling. Raced at longer distances in further off locations. Experienced and enjoyed new things at different levels and different places. Some with family, some with friends established early in life and those developed along the way, some with co-workers, and some solo. Training, racing, family relations, social occasions, and more all ebbed and flowed over the years. Life should be colorful based on grey decisions, not black and white ones. Adopt polarity management to smooth out the disruptions and minimize the fallout. Answers change overtime based on your needs, wants, opportunities, risk tolerance, and how the world plays out around them.

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/
https://www.palmtreesahead.com/tactics2faster-new

One job move i would caution against is one i've seen many times: Where a technical guy, engineer etc moves into management and then spends his days looking at spreadsheets about other people doing engineering instead of doing it himself and he gradually loses his skills and becomes old and unhappy.

I always took the path of increasing techncal skills and firmly keeping out of management...

Another point to keep in mind is that if you're making the decisions from the perspective of youth without a wife and kids then you might think that you'll never really need to earn very much to be happy. Wait until you have a family and see just how fast money pisses out in all directions. It's a lot easier to be a happy dad if you aren't constantly in the shit moneywise.

I have purposely sacrificed a significant salary increase to accommodate my lifestyle, not one specific sport or aspect of my lifestyle, but the work/life balance I enjoy. I was recruited by another company and would have enjoyed about a 30% increase in salary to do so. But, the work hours were much less flexible, there would have been more travel, and it would have had a significant impact on my personal life, including my own activities as well as my ability to participate in and attend my kids' activities). I like my current job and I'm paid well, but having the additional 30% bump in pay would have been really nice. My current employer has a culture where work/life balance is important and the it is much less so at the prospective employer. I wasn't willing to make that sacrifice as I value my personal life and time with my family too much. Work to live not live to work.

I would say for me after college (was not into triathlon at that time) I looked for jobs and roles that allowed flexibility as I've never been one to sit at a desk for the whole day...I Interned and did that and knew I wanted to do something different. The one that consistently came up was outside sales. I am now in medical sales and been the past 5-6 years and its been great. Outside sales in general is a great option because as long as you're where you need to be you are mostly able to go as you please. Most Fridays are your "planning" days and at least for me (work specifically with internal medicine, family practice, etc) are not open on the weekends. With that being said...if you are not where you need to be it can be a bit difficult and you will need to put in more hours.

I was offered a job with a salary increase of about $13k. Turned it down. 13k is peanuts. Plus I currently have 28 days of PTO (not including holidays) and I’d be going back to 10 days starting with a new company. I can’t spend 13k if I can’t take time off so I stayed. To be fair, it was more of a lateral move anyway. That just didn’t make any sense to me unless I have a new title.

---

USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

I’m currently looking for a career shift to better accommodate my hobbies (tri) and my family. I work around 50 hours a week, so not too bad work wise but my commute to work is an hour both ways. So a 50 hour week becomes a 60 hour week. I didn’t realize how much of a toll that commute would take on me when I took the job, but it eats up so much valuable time. I would totally take a cut in pay just to work closer to where I live. Wish I could move closer but there’s No civilization between the city I currently live and the chemical plant I work at.

exaccctllyyyy who needs management or spelling - just run

---

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

How do you want to live today, and how do you want to live tomorrow?

The ideal choice gets you both. But only today comes with a guarantee.

I passed on working my way up the corporate ladder. Spending my life on an airplane or in an office away from my family (and hobbies) wasn't worth it for me. The one good thing I got out of my dad passing away younger was the blunt reminder that living to work and for money isn't really living. I work to earn what I call "fun coupons." I regularly cash them in for my family and I.

As another post stated here. Once I got to the point where I could come and go as I pleased, made a great living, and was fulfilled in my job. I didn't see the need to sacrifice more just to have more fun coupons. I I knew lots of people with big jet boats, giant houses, and fancy cars that they almost never got to use because they were working all the time.

I found an employer who was supportive of my philosophy of work-life balance. They might not pay as much as the other place around the corner but they also recognize that when I have 1.5 hours blocked out in the middle of my day for a workout...that it makes me a better employee and that much more productive.

Which is all a long way of saying that, yes - I could probably work more instead of having more free time. But I don't consider that a sacrifice at all.

Yes, I do. There's more to life than working all the time. I find that triathlon gives me a great balance, But, in my current role, to get to the next level requires a much larger time investment. I'm a software engineer - but the next level requires much more cross-team "collaboration" and many more meetings. To get to that level would easily be another 10+ hours a week in time. I'm already full time and commute ~2+ hours each day. To me, adding another 10-15 hours a week is not worth a 15-20% pay increase. And, I'm already in the bay area where pay is crazy high to start with and everything is stupid expensive.

"I'm not talking about whether your career has suffered as a result of your sport. I suspect everyone to some degree would agree with that."
---------------------------------


I do not agree with that. Triathlon has clearly enhanced my career advancement. I don't think they are mutually exclusive and I don't believe that is the right perspective to put yourself in. The exception would be if you are trying to race pro . . . if so, I would think the question would be different.

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

This

I have been promoted amogst other things because of tri. It have helped me priotize my time, and the training is flexible.

Age 35, manager of 30 persons, in a department I have built. I train 8-12 hours a week, and is home early most days to be with wife and 3 kids...

I'm the 42 year old dude that rolls up to the tri in a 2011 Honda Civic with a 2012 Cervelo P3 that I bought used and tricked out myself. I don't have anything fancy, but I have stuff that I made work well for racing and my bike is as good as the $10K bikes you can buy today. I also have a relatively high paying job where I work 40 hours/week and don't have to travel. Why don't I have a fancier car/bike/bling? Well it's because I spent my money on rental properties that are all paid off now. I have 15 rents coming in/month that go straight toward my retirement/kids college/buying more properties. I feel the peer pressure every day at work to aim for that next title and promotion, but I feel like I have a really nice balance at the moment and don't want to mess it up. That equation works for me and my family, but it might not be for everyone. As long as you are happy, that's all that matters.

The questions I always ask when I'm interviewing for a new position are

"Do you feel like you can leave work at work or do you feel like you are always taking it home?"
"Is there an expectation for me to be available when I'm not at work?"
"How many of your employees regularly work more than 40 hours? And how many hours do they typically work?"

I've turned down jobs where the answers to those questions weren't acceptable to my lifestyle.

I agree that advancing your career doesn't always mean more time, but I know at my company, going into management means more time and more availability. For that reason alone, I've steered my career away from management and into more technical roles that allow for (slower) advancement but less time. It has lowered the ceiling I can reach within the company, but it's still a high enough ceiling that I'd be happy.

This is an important question and could be analyzed as a part of more general question about values and time we spend on them. Usually analysis looks like this.

Assign a numeric value for how important (1-10) each of those for you:

• Marriage / couples / intimate relations
• Parenting
• Other family relations
• Friendships / social relations
• Career / employment
• Education / training / personal growth
• Leisure / recreation / hobbies
• Spirituality
• Citizenship
• Health / physical wellbeing

It's ok to have multiple 10s or 0s. Then assign a numeric value for how much time and effort you're actually spending on each of those.
If you have large discrepancies, it's not very healthy and can lead to a lot of negative stuff.

Your original question 'career vs triathlon' looks for me like an artificially reduced one, and thus difficult to answer. You most probably don't have 10 for those two and 0 for the rest.

I myself did not have to make this kind of choice. I love my work and it allows me to train as much as my body can take. If I really had a vocation that required time sacrifices, I probably would have chosen the vocation. But not money.

Those are great questions!

I turned down a promotion as the $$$ was not much more, did not give me the skills I want in 10 years, AND -- despite being assured flexibility is there -- is not as flexible as my current position. Right now, I can leave if the kid is sick, or my mom needs to see the Dr, or something else happens. That lets my wife stay at work, which reduces her stress (she teaches and doing sub stuff is always a pain).

If the raise was significant, I may have gone another direction with my answer.

I think the answer to this question varies with age. I'm 48. I am in a position now where I may be able to retire well before 60. My house will be paid off in 2 years. I raised 3 kids who are going through college with no debt (one is already done and in the workforce). I still enjoy triathlon and race 8-9 times a year. However, there are things I have had to give up such as $10K bikes and over 10 hours of training a week. I would never, ever, give up financial independence and an early retirement for more time eking out a tough existence for me and my family.

TRIATHLON IS A HOBBY! If you don't prioritize the well-being of your spouse and/or family your life will be crap. No way 'round it...

---

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

In this case your definition of well being includes drive that “better” car and ride “bike more expensive than their cars” and “buying more toys”. I agree if you can and want to do both, do both. At the same time to some the definition of well being does not include a fatter wallet to buy stuff.

100% agree with this one. Well said!

Yes, i agree, to a certain extent. - "How many yachts can you waterski behind"? or whatever the line from Wall Street was. But on the other hand being poor is no fun at all. I guarantee you that a professional wage would improve your quality of life compared to earning a quarter as much because you couldn't be bothered to put in any effort to your career. Every single thing becomes better: - a car that doesn't break down, better bike, better lycra, being able to enter races and not have to worry that it's your kids' school shoes fund you're dipping into, a house in a nicer part of town, better food, better sheets on your bed... everything.

That very much depends on how you define "quality of life". There are very many people IMO who would be happier in less prestigious, less well paid careers because the time and/or stress demands throughout or at certain points in their career have had severe detrimental impacts on other elements of their lives. I've met and worked with many miserable but very professionally successful and well paid people. In many cases I'm absolutely confident that over commitment to their career was the primary reason for their misery. I currently work with a guy in his 50s who I've heard say it would be easier to get a divorce from his wife of 25 years than move companies (despite a job offer) to get closer to his family, which is what he and they want. He wasn't joking.

I don't bear a responsibility to make as much money as I can, or even to make a lot. No more than I'm obliged to become the fastest triathlete I could be. I'm comfortable.

You say "being poor is no fun at all" and there may be some truth to that, but its' also true that wealth can take away as much freedom as it grants, and does not typically equate to happiness. The happiest people I know are not wealthy, and the wealthiest are actually the least happy. There is a pattern.

Agreed. The trick is to find something that you enjoy doing. Not everyone has that luck. I enjoy doing computer networks + it pays well + I have 3 kids in school = I am relatively happy to work lots.

I've had sucky jobs for sure and they sap my will to live and depress me, so i bail on them as soon as i find another lilly pad to hop onto and it begins again. (I've quit my job this week because it was well paid but boring and pointless and sucky and not doing what i wanted to be doing).

Certainly as soon as i no longer have to pay school fees i'll almost certainly begin to work less...

Of course the US system can be rather cruel compared to most so perhaps there's more financial anxiety and more need for a safety net as compared to countries where your family's health, education and most basic needs are far less likely to be at severe risk due to career misfortune.

Great point.

---

http://www.jt10000.com/

In triathlon, that's considered slumming. When I was starting bike racing, people would have said "What's with the flash car?"

---

http://www.jt10000.com/

I'm 43 and my Honda Civic is only 2008, was planning to replace it this year but it's still doing the job and I don't see any cars that hit the spot on the market, so it'll wait til next year. But my bike is a 2016 Felt IA14 bought new so I'm calling it a wash! Expensive cars are for showing off. I don't need to. My money can go into the house, savings, and holidays (vacations) where we'll enjoy it more. Like you I have a well paid job and currently doing 40-45hrs a week with a 15min commute. I'm contracting not staff (I like the variety and flexibility, the much better pay is just a bonus!) so this job won't last much longer, I've gotten 3 years out of it so no complaints. Hope the next one is similar!
Exactly

My 2 cents. I purposely stayed with the same company for the last 13 years - mainly because it allows me a great deal of flexibility in terms of time available to me for non work stuff. I probably could have gone to work for one of the FAANGs with a higher salary but also a significantly higher stress level and way more hours needed to answer emails. I still make a very good living, and my commute is about 30 mins, leaving me plenty of time to spend with my family, train and vacation whenever. Sure I don't drive the latest model sports car, and I race on a home built P3, but It does not bother me a bit.

---

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Money, jobs, promotions, come and go. Your 40's, 50's health & strength don't. Your kids 0-15 don't come back either.
I am 44, and 4 years ago I chose to live life and enjoy my time and my family over money and job promotion. I earn well 50% less than my work partners, but my health and energy is well above 150% of theirs. I have over 20h/week just for me while wife and kids are busy with work/school (most of them I train:FOP triathlete and top AGer), and spend almost every afternoon with my kids after they are done with school.
It is not an easy answer and you have to assess your family financial situation in the long term, but it is very much to earn lots of money to spend it on your health once retired, or earn time to have the health and strength to enjoy some money once you retired.
All the luck.

---

STRAVA INSTAGRAM

My first reaction to this post was “what idiot would make career choices based on a hobby”

But then I realized we ALL do this. Maybe not for triathlon specifically but in some form or fashion. I’m an anesthesiologist but I originally went to med school wanting to be an orthopedic surgeon. I soon realized that I wanted the pendulum of work/life balance swing more heavily toward life than work, which steered me to anesthesiology. I guess it wasn’t for triathlon directly but it was definitely to allow more time in my life for everything else which includes triathlon.

Funny I went from surgery to radiology for the same reasons. Maybe a bit off topic and somewhat obvious, but a significant underestimated pitfall of professional success is life style creep. My income increased 10 fold over just a few years and I was able to resist to a certain extent but I have friends and colleagues who went for the mansion and fancy cars (what is it with doctors and Teslas?...) and are now locked in the proverbial golden cage situation. Buying things instead of buying freedom. On the other hand I know of people who saved 70% of their income and retired at 42. Interestingly, I noticed that I lose interest in expensive things as soon as I can afford them. I guess that helped with avoiding the lifestyle creep as well.

My vote would be to put your head down for a few years and then leverage position and seniority for freedom (which is what a lot of the posters in this thread apparently have pulled off).

Yeah, that lifestyle creep thing is the silent killer! I'm not in the medical field, but I have a few friends that are MD's and I've seen them fall to the peer pressure of lifestyle creep. One of them is so far in debt I doubt they will ever have a net worth above zero despite making a massive salary. I can't imagine the misery of that situation!

By being relatively frugal and working for several years I've gotten to the point where my assets generate almost as much as I make from my job. It's great, I make as much sleeping when I'm awake. I joke to my wife that I'm a "self sponsored professional triathlete" because technically I'm getting paid while I ride my bike.

Yup. I’ve been out of residency 2.5 years and am about to pay off the last of my $112,000 of student debt. I drive a 10 year old VW and my goal is no debt at all by age 45 (I’m 33 tomorrow). No mortgage, no car payments, no debt at all.

Congrats on getting rid of the student debt!

So I was at that point 3 years ago, I had enough cash to pay off my other car (not the 2011 civic) that was still financed and my house. The car was only financed because it was a 0.9% interest rate (my money market account gives me about a 2% return right now) and the house was on a 2.25% mortgage rate. I ended up buying some more rentals with cash that return about 10%-13%. If I had financed those rental properties, I would have been looking at a 4.5-5% interest rate. So basically I used my house as my loan to buy more rentals. Because of the rentals, I will be at that point again next year where I can either pay off the house or buy some more assets. I would love to have everything all paid off, but I'll bet the temptation to buy more rentals will win out.

I know i've already posted once, but I had another thought on this. If you are at the point you have your basic necessities covered and aren't in debt, I would just place a monetary value on your time ($25/hr, $40/hr, $100/hr, etc.) then try to evaluate whether your time given up for career advancement is worth it. If you have to give up $30,000 a year in time to gain a $15,000 monetary increase then I'd not give it up.

The hardest thing about stopping lifestyle creep is having a spouse and kids! Even if your spouse works!

Yeah, I've got that too. Those little rugrats hit the pocketbook like a new Ferrari.

sebBo, I'm the same way. When I was in med school, I dreamed of having a fancy house and fancy cars. As my income increased, and I could buy whatever I wanted, I found that I no longer had the desire to do so. We use money to go on adventurous/active vacations but I have no need to "keep up with the Joneses". My Honda Pilot has 120,000 miles on it and runs just fine. I'm putting away as much money as I can, every year, in the hopes of leaving the medical field much earlier than my peers. Time is so much more important than money. Its amazing how you can blink and twenty years of your life pass by.

You got me beat there, I was weak and as my only extravaganza bought a 911 six month into my first job. Now, many years later I still have the same car and averaged out over the years the car probably cost me less than most Toyotas (zilch except for occasional new tires and oil changes/services). Rock solid car. I have a Wrangler as a daily driver, which in our hospital garage sticks out like a sore thumb ;-)

Agree with your plan, even though I did manage to leverage some special qualifications and seniority into more freedom at work and could do this for a long time, I am looking forward to the point where I go to work because I want to and not because I have to.

By being relatively frugal and working for several years I've gotten to the point where my assets generate almost as much as I make from my job. It's great, I make as much sleeping when I'm awake. I joke to my wife that I'm a "self sponsored professional triathlete" because technically I'm getting paid while I ride my bike

I want to know what stocks you’re buying!

---

USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

Bought a turbo charged viper and had a custom hose built before I got smart

Got rid of the bling, invested in business and rentals and retired at 47

I’m very blessed I didn’t have friends or relatives to try to keep up with.

Rental properties and dividend paying stocks....but mostly rental properties!!

In June, after 10 years of focusing on raising our kids, my wife finally joined the workforce and her income has been greatly appreciated by me. It allowed me to ditch the higher pay/ long commute/ high stress job in the city.

She eased into 15-20 hours a week and I cut back from 50-70 hour weeks to 35 ish and I feel Ike I’m on vacation. I feel like there is time for everything.

It was funny yesterday I was an hour into my 3 hour lunch reading this thread and decided to go for a 1.5 hour run just because I could.

I think about the question differently: how to optimize ones happiness (and sense of achievement) today, tomorrow, and in the longer term future.

So, I would weigh up the benefits of the new job (e.g greater pay, greater responsibility, greater sense of accomplishment, new skills, etc etc) versus the downsides (less time to train, etc). Then evaluate it on what is the right choice over multiple timeframes.

My experience, moving up the managerial hierarchy at a fortune 500 company has not involved long term detrimental impacts on my available times. The demands are different and so are the challenge, but I still manage to train and race quite well (eg podium AG at 70.3).

Hope this helps.

I read through many responses in this post. Both David and I have the perspective of going through the entire spectrum from young single guy doing sport, doing career stuff, to family guy, to grown family guy, all the while doing sport and career.

Today, at almost 54, I market my endurance sport participation and racing to Venture Capitalists. Its an asset. They want to fund young entrepreneurs who will have the energy to do the tech startup grind. I can outgrind pretty well anyone because my endurance and time management is relatively insanely high compared to the average tech guy.

In any case personally I have not 'sacrificed' so called career enhancement for triathlon. Rather I consider my life as one entire package. There is revenue generating part of life and revenue consuming part of life.

Firstly I measure my personal success by how much fun I have in both aspects combined and how the revenue consuming aspects of my life (family, sport, reading etc) enhance my ability in the revenue generating part of life, and how the revenue generating part of life enhance the non revenue generating part of life.

Looking at this entire package, I decide it the entire package is holistically moving in the trajectory that myself and my wife need it to move. Sport is a big part of the picture, and as it turns out in my late 40's and 50's its a huge asset having the health to bounce around the globe closing deals, beating the compeitition and making shit happen. I did that so well in one company that our largest competitior bought us...during that time I was making the most money I ever made in my life, and I was racing Ironmans all over the world. Once I was done with that, the money I made allowed me to go 1.5 years off no salary, raise investor capital, pay other guys and not myself and get a tech startup off the ground living ultra lean (in 2018, my wife and I lived off $38,000 CAD because we wanted to not tap into any retirement savings....I just swam 1200 km over the year and did cheap masters swim racing...but i was happy living off nothing starting a tech company and swimming a ton.)

My message to those of you on this thread who have not lived the full triathlon + family + career lifecycle that David and I and many "lifers" have lived, is that you should not look at this as enhancing one or the other. You are one person, not two or three.

You need to pick your own measures of success holistically and live with yourself. Don't let what cars, what houses, what vacations, what titles other people have determine what you do. Do what is SUCCESS for you.

Your spouse has to buy into the picture though. If your spouse and you have different measures of what is successful for the family and you're doing one thing and the spouse is wanting something else then you're doomed. Not many spouses will be willing to live off $38,000 in their 50's when there is a large pile of money in the stock market and we could cash at every Trump driven peak and dip and we're paying other people, just to get a company going.

I was having this discussion with one of my colleagues. She is in her early 50's. She said she would never want to re live her 30's and mid 40's and is really happy with her life now. I said, "no way!!! are you kidding??? I would be happy to relive every moment of my 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's. I never did anything where I would not want to relive that part of my life because I could die tomorrow and I'm not doing anything today that is miserable in the hope that it makes my life tomorrow awesome....that's just an endless trail of doing miserable stuff in hopes that it gets better....not worth it".

Interesting. I will have to be the odd man out. A lot of disgruntled MDs and workers in general on here. Work does not HAVE to be a chore. It can be a source of satisfaction and purpose. Personally, I love my work as an MD. The happiest people that I know, and I include myself in this group, are those who love their work AND work a lot while still having time for their family.

I gave up triathlon to focus on my career and young family. Not sure when I will come back to triathlon. I get much more satisfaction out of helping patients with clinical care and research than I ever did by crossing finish lines. I stay quite fit by run commuting to work, avoid work travel whenever possible, never waste time on TV or social media, avoid lifestyle creep and save lots of money in case my goals change in the future, provide the best schools and neighborhood for my family, and spend every moment I can with them. I plan to work until I drop dead.

That part above in bold....ST is social media. It was around in 1998 and beat Zuckerberg by several years. For slowman, the people he connects, however is a bunch of triathletes, so the market cap of ST is <<<<< than FB since most of humanity does not do triathlon. But its still social media that we're all squandering time on. Right now I am getting served up ads for Mini Cooper and World Vision here on ST.

I love what I do, as a physician, but all of the outside interference is driving me mad. Even the patients are burning me out now. A patient may have a problem you've seen a million times, but many think they are the ONE patinet who has some rare ailment. Most of this is because "I've looked it up on Google and I think they are connected". I spend so much time explaining "no, your problem is caused by diabetes because you don't control your sugar, have high BP, and smoke". It's just frustrating because I feel like I'm the only one (between me and the patient) who is actually trying to make the patient better

I agree with this frustration. I actually took a job where I care more for the indigent than for the private practice set mostly for the reason you stated--I couldn't handle the personalities. Most of my patients are just grateful that somebody is willing to take care of them. Tradeoff is of course $$$.

The bureaucracy and governmental dictates are maddening. It is still a pretty damn cool and fun profession though, with personal, financial, and intellectual rewards, I think, especially when I look at what my friends are doing.