Yeah, he's quite the "victim."


ST. LOUIS • On Tuesday, two people in a group delivering gifts to a needy family in the 4000 block of McRee Avenue were shot; one was slightly injured. The incidents began about 5:30 p.m. Tuesday, when five people arrived in the inner-city neighborhood with carloads of gifts. They were robbed before two of them were shot.
Shortly afterward, a neighborhood woman was abducted in her car, robbed, fondled, then let out. Sometime later, her car was found abandoned, and the two teen-agers were caught by two police officers.

Donald Hutson, 18, of the 4700 block of Thrush Avenue, and Bobby L. Bostic, 16, of the 4100 block of Blaine Avenue were charged Wednesday with 18 felony counts apiece. The charges include robbery, assault, sexual abuse and kidnapping.
Bostic was charged as an adult because he already had been certified as an adult on a previous unrelated drug charge.

http://www.stltoday.com/...56-fac44aebd730.html

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Why don't you offer to take him into your household and split punishment for any crimes he commits?

"Yeah, he's quite the "victim."

Never said he's a saint but 241 yrs at age 16? Compare that to other criminals and their sentences. And nobody was actually killed. But it is Missouri and the first thing that enters the mind is if he was a white 16 yr old do you think the sentence would have been so harsh? You tell me. You're the lawyer.

It makes little sense to me either. Many aspects of the US criminal justice system don't.

Our country doesn't have the death penalty. For the most heinous crimes a criminal can have their file stamped "never to be released" - (technically no "non-parole" date). They are to die in prison. Nationwide, there are no more than 15 individuals with that sentence. Their crimes are all utter horror stories (mass murder, serial murder or rape/murder). In this case, that is effectively the sentence given to a child for non-fatal offences.

Put aside the human rights issue. Put aside the argument about Constitutionality. If nothing else, it lacks all proportionality and consistency. Even in the US, most murderers will one day be paroled.

This month the "Angel of Death", Genene Jones is due for release. She murdered about 60 children.
Leslie Van Houten, one of the Manson gang, has been eligible for parole for some time, and is likely to get it this year.
David Berkowitz, the "Son of Sam" serial killer is also eligible for parole, to be reviewed again this year.

These and hundreds of other "bad hombres" get at least a chance at parole. Yet a kid who killed nobody* is to never even be allowed to apply for parole, let alone be guaranteed release? Indefensible.




*It seems that Bostic's (adult) partner in crime perpetrated the worst of the offences, including doing a Trump on a female victim.

Maybe they were Canadian teenagers and thought it was all good because it's erased on their 18th birthday. Ahh, too bad, stupid choices have consequences.

Well, a Supreme Court ruling in 2010 outlawed life terms for minors convicted of murder. Given that this didn't involve murder and the adult co-defendent was sentenced to 30 years, it seems that 241 is a bit out of line (as in "unconstitutional").

Wow the replies here are amazing, if nothing else in there dichotomy.

Simply amazing. (to which I am sure both sides will agree :0 )

a good example, of how as a country we are getting more and more divided, which if you believe that United we stand, doesn't paint a good outlook to this longest running political experiment.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Maybe they were basketball players and thought perhaps someone might intervene on their behalf... /pink

Adult crimes should have adult consequences. I know of kids that have outright said that they have to all the bad shit before they turn of age so it doesn't follow them through life. So, basically they already know the consequences and how to avoid them. There's also this going on. Just the most recent example of Vancouverites training for their next Stanley Cup run.

How many life sentences should those kids who trashed the house be given?

Jeez, the kid should just have committed manslaughter and he would be out already.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Obviously I'm not saying the kids should be thrown in jail for life but there certainly needs to be stronger consequences for shit like that. OTOH, you are a contractor and you know, follow the money...(sarc / sard / bad humour)

Good one.

What an idiot judge though. She claims that science has discovered in past 20 years that 16 y/o brain is still maturing. Most folks with any common sense knew that 20 years ago and /maybe even earlier/pink. She should have just written in WaPo that she was an idiot then and is an idiot now.

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Fair enough, but I think your example of kids saying they need to do all the bad stuff before hitting 18 is a bit of a stretch. Something tells me those kids aren't going to stop breaking the law at 18. I don't know many people who spent significant time in the juvenile detention system that ended up being law abiding adults.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

When you commit armed robbery, shoot two people and kidnap one I would expect you to be tried as an adult, but what precedent is there for 241? I'm assuming he was offered a 30 year plea deal like the 18 year old.

I tend to agree, I'd just prefer it be simpler.

By simpler I mean if we can say that the new lower age limit for an adult felony is 16, let's just call it 16 and be done with it.

But I still think there should be some hard age limit. 14? 12? 8? At some point it's just not an adult.

You realize the judge who imposed the sentence is African-American, right? In fact, she was the first black woman appointed to the Circuit Court. So, she must be a racist ...

You REALLY need to check your facts before you spout some of this shit.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Co-defendant plead guilty. Judge (an African-American woman) begged Bostic to plead guilty. Instead, he acted out during the entire trial. He blamed the victims. He took no responsibility and showed no remorse. He showed no signs he was capable of reforming. As a result, he was found guilty of 18 separate counts and was sentenced for each of them.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Not only was he offered a plea deal, but, the Judge begged him to accept it. She even asked him, again, to consider a plea deal before the jury came back with a verdict. He basically told her to go to the corner and self-fornicate. So, when the jury came back with guilty verdicts on all 18 counts, she sentenced him each count.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Why do you hate SCOTUS rulings so much?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that juveniles sentenced for crimes other than murder must have "some meaningful opportunity to obtain release based on demonstrated maturity and rehabilitation."

The judge who sentenced him argues that her sentence is unconstitutional, based on the 2010 ruling. Why doesn't Judge Judy think so?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

She's much smarter than the original judge, I guess.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Does Judge Judy think that this sentence will be overturned?

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2017/12/21/bobby-bostic-sentenced-as-a-teen-to-241-years-appeals-to-us-supreme-court

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What is Judge Judy trying to say? I can't understand!

He chose to put the prosecution to their proof. The right to do so is pretty foundational to the rule of law. If that, and other matters, indicated a lack of contrition then, sure, he might expect a slightly higher sentence (although 30 years is pretty savage as a starting point).

What happened here is that she added more than 2 centuries to his sentence, to guarantee that he die in jail.

We're all used to the "lock em up and throw away the key" bleatings from far-right talk-back radio (though not usually addressed at children) but I am astonished that anyone with any legal training would adopt your position.

As a side wager, I'll bet that the SC agrees to take an appeal, and overrules as unconstitutional. I don't think they'll be overly taxed to see through the "It's not a life sentence, he could get parole when he's 112" argument.

technically trump only spoke about grabbing them. clinton did grab them, and more.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
we're doomed

What's your stake in this? Seriously

Huh?

Here's a list of allegations about Clinton: http://www.businessinsider.com/...-11#leslie-millwee-4

Here's a list of allegations about Trump: http://time.com/...nald-trump-accusers/

You're free to judge the credibility of the women as you want, but saying that Trump only "spoke" about it while claiming as fact that Clinton "did grab them" is a pretty extreme viewpoint given the available evidence.

You bet. They had him dead to rights. There was no defense. None. There were multiple witnesses, surveillance cameras, gunpowder marks on his hands, and a confession by his co-defendant. He was given a gift. He chose to flip it the bird. That's his "right." Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

What happened is she sentenced him to each of the 18 counts for which he was found guilty. Perfect within her purview.

I'm a former prosecutor. This guy tried to end the life of individuals who were doing charity work, after they had given up their wallets. What on earth would expect from me, to defend him? If I were the prosecutor, I would not have asked for 241 years. If I were the judge, I would not have sentenced him to 241 years. But, the law allows it and I am not going to second guess this judge, even if she wants to second guess herself.

I'm also not going to sit idly by while guys like cerveloguy claim racism when the judge in this case was African-American and was the first black woman to serve on the bench in this circuit. I'm certain he posted this story believing this was some old, white, male, racist judge from Missouri. That's not the case. This sentence was handed out by a well-respected judge with a solid career who just happened to be a black female.


Because of the publicity this case is getting, that very well may happen. If it does, the law will work. It is doesn't, the law will work.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yes, but it is more likely the Court of Appeals will overturn and SCOTUS will let their ruling stand.

BTW, I would respect the judge's re-evaluation of her ruling. It's not a matter of second-guessing, it's hindsight. Folks should use it more often. This item is newsworthy only because it is so egregious.

"Plead"?? Are you resorting to ebonics??

Fix that shit!

Yet we've been told by the media, that when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, we should obey the wishes of these wise, judicious 16 year olds.

i'm pretty sympathetic to JSA's reasoning here. i'm also pretty sympathetic to the parkland students' viewpoints. (david hogg is, as i recall, the son of an FBI man, guns in the home, in favor of preserving the 2nd amendment.) in the end, when it comes time to vote, the choice is almost always binary. in the goodwill discussion leading up to the vote the ideas, opinions, negotiations, are legion. i wonder why we so often get this backwards. carry on...

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

OK, my bad and I own it for not having all the facts, but it wasn't an unreasonable assumption to make.

http://abcnews.go.com/...dy/story?id=51203491

I don't you make a strong case for the fact that the teenage brain is still developing and this kid was clearly not thinking straight, and his mental capacity should have been brought into consideration.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

That goes towards sentencing, not guilt. That’s a bargaining chip for a plea deal. Isn’t going to help you if you go to trial on 18 counts. One or two, maybe. But not 18 separate counts.

His attorney cannot force him to take a deal, but he tried with the assistance of the judge.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Not to get OT but my understanding was that controlling for money -- i.e. using a public defender vs a hired attorney -- is a huge factor in sentencing, and that wasn't controlled for in this study.

https://journalistsresource.org/...egal-respresentation

Simple fact is the economic disadvantage of many black people, especially those most likely to be in trouble with the law, needs to be part of the equation.

This 241-year sentence is ridiculous and I think on appeal it makes sense to overturn, but it does look like Bostic made his own bed on this one. I do think it's 100% appropriate to look at this through the lens of hindsight and say it's unethical to sentencing a kid to almost 100 years before even seeing a parole hearing, and on charges that didn't involve murder to boot.

So it would be impossible that an African American judge would intentionally take a harsh punishment approach on a AA defendent in a high profile case to improve their career prospects? Racism isn't as simple as the judge was black the defendent was black and therefore race had nothing to do with it. It totally ignores all the externalities that lead to implicit racism.

Who is more likely to be selected (and capable of being confirmed if necessary) to a Federal bench position?

A "liberal" "soft on crime" African American judge or a "conservative" "send them to pound-me-in-the-ass prison" African American judge?

The black conservative is a much easier compromise, the right can accept them (heck I think the right must love Clarence Thomas) and the left basically can't oppose them without being labelled as racists. I can't believe than any judge these days who ultimately wants to end up on a high court doesn't think about the career consequences of every decision they make and how it could be used for or against them later.

You would be wise to follow your own council;)

Careerism and racism aren't the same thing.


Where to? Is his council traveling to Panera for lunch or something?

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Here's another 16 year old, doing your typical 16 year old hijinks, like beating his friend to death with a baseball bat.

Do you think they should try him as an adult or is his brain not developed enough for that?


A 16-year-old Florida boy is suspected of beating his friend to death with a baseball bat, authorities said, alleging that the teen was jealous of his friend's relationship with a girl.
Police say the suspect persuaded friend Giovanni Diaz, 15, to go into a wooded area Monday afternoon, where the teen "viciously beat and killed Giovanni with a baseball bat," Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said at a news conference Monday. He hit Giovanni at least nine times, Judd added.
. . .
Police say the suspect told someone several days ago, "I wonder what it's like to murder someone," Judd said today.
. . .
The alleged victim "has absolutely no previous run-ins with the law," Judd said, but the suspect was charged two years ago with two counts of battery for allegedly battering two people, including Giovanni.
The suspect also was charged with domestic battery last year for allegedly battering his father, Judd said.
The suspect has been charged with one count of first-degree murder and one count of possession of marijuana. Police are requesting that he be tried as an adult; the State Attorney’s Office will make that decision at a later time, Judd said.

https://www.yahoo.com/...news-topstories.html

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I like that idea.

Edit: what I mean is that I like that you're proposing that an apologist offer the kid room in their house and to be jointly criminally responsible for any crimes the kid might commit.

I would hope the white kid would get the same punishment.

"Yeah, he's quite the "victim."

Never said he's a saint but 241 yrs at age 16? Compare that to other criminals and their sentences. And nobody was actually killed. But it is Missouri and the first thing that enters the mind is if he was a white 16 yr old do you think the sentence would have been so harsh? You tell me. You're the lawyer.[/quote]

You realize the judge who imposed the sentence is African-American, right? In fact, she was the first black woman appointed to the Circuit Court. So, she must be a racist ...

You REALLY need to check your facts before you spout some of this shit.[/quote]

So it would be impossible that an African American judge would intentionally take a harsh punishment approach on a AA defendent in a high profile case to improve their career prospects? Racism isn't as simple as the judge was black the defendent was black and therefore race had nothing to do with it. It totally ignores all the externalities that lead to implicit racism.

Who is more likely to be selected (and capable of being confirmed if necessary) to a Federal bench position?

A "liberal" "soft on crime" African American judge or a "conservative" "send them to pound-me-in-the-ass prison" African American judge?

The black conservative is a much easier compromise, the right can accept them (heck I think the right must love Clarence Thomas) and the left basically can't oppose them without being labelled as racists. I can't believe than any judge these days who ultimately wants to end up on a high court doesn't think about the career consequences of every decision they make and how it could be used for or against them later.

You would be wise to follow your own council;)[/quote]
The person most likely to get nominated and approved as a federal district court or circuit court judge is a person known to the senators of the state and who belongs to the political party of the POTUS. This is tempered by whether or not the seat was previously occupied by a republican or democrat. This judge is not at all concerned about how "tough on crime" she is perceived to be.

Why are you asking me? I'm not a a lawyer nor an American. I just thought 241 yrs was a bit excessive in relation to "normal" sentencing.

Never stopped you before ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

PPPFFFFTTTTTT, :-)