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Garmin Varia Heads Up Display
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Saw this today, with video - http://techcrunch.com/...e-true-for-cyclists/

I'd just need watts, HR, time elapsed, and distance for racing. Would you wear it in a race?

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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Because it's so difficult to glance down at a bike computer...
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Cool! I think this could approve safety a lot, I really don't like watching down when in the tt position. I have my watch on the tt-bar (on the right side).
However, If I would by this I think it needs to be clear, I don't want a black thing compromising the view...
A back camera connected to this would be fun as well (I wonder what rules apple on race for using this?!).
Please hope we all can be spared messages ffrom facebook etc, we do not need more zombies in the traffic!
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Tech-wise that's a pretty neat little product, it looks smaller and sleeker than the Recon Jet and the swiping interface is cool. I remember hearing an interview a while ago (possibly with Larry Page or Sergei Brinn regarding the Google Glasses) and they were of the opinion that the days of carrying around a screen (i.e. a phone or tablet) and having to physically look down at it all the time were going to come to an end sooner-or-later and people would accept a more integrated approach to consuming media, such as this. I can certainly relate to that, coming from a city where most people on the street wander around staring at their phones, rarely glancing up and completely oblivious to the world around them.

However, for cycling I still think this is a solution looking for a problem, I don't need stats or maps pumped into my eyes every second. Even just watching that preview video I got quite distracted by what was going on with the little screen off to the side and not paying attention to the "road". If the subject and the traffic around them were moving at vaguely normal speeds, I think it would be a lot more alarming to the viewer. I certainly wouldn't expect it to make my commute safer as the video suggests! Sure, at the moment I have to look down at my Garmin occasionally, but I can pick a safe moment to do this and the remaining 99% of the time it's outside of my peripheral vision and not distracting me.
Last edited by: aw3: Jan 5, 16 5:31
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [aw3] [ In reply to ]
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definitely hard to use with aerohelmet
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [aw3] [ In reply to ]
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Trying to figure out if that's Lance in the video. He's got that smirk. lol.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Not particularly interested in such a device.....yet.

But this is an important step in the development process, primarily in that it is a stand-alone device that can be used iwth any glasses, not just the ones that come with the unit. Props to Garmin for that.

Still seems kinda big & bulky to me, though....which will undoubtedly be refined over time. It will be interesting to see where this trend goes now.

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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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i'd rather have audio.

and i find this kind of unnerving ... i like to know that if a person is looking in a certain direction they are actually, you know, seeing stuff.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Coverage at many outlets now, DCR, Verge, etc.

I used to be really excited about these types of products. It's not about any true need, but out of belief that augmented reality and heads up displays are the future so we are witnessing the steps in that direction.

However, unless the display has been significantly improved over that of the Recon Jet I have a hard time getting excited over such a similar form factor. I used the Jet pretty heavily for a month and found it far more cumbersome and difficult to read than I had hoped. I would have an immense sense of relief when I would invariably give up on it or have the battery die partway through a long ride and return to unobstructed vision.

I'm still excited about the future of having a true overlay on a clear display, but in my limited experience simply obstructing part of your vision with a tiny screen leaves a lot to be desired.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed, but the DCR review says it doesn't block vision anything like the Recon Jet does. I'm not getting one anytime soon, but would love to try it for a short ride for sure.

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Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Likewise, would love to try it, just not going to go full first-adopter like I did on the Jet. Ray's comments were definitely favorable, and that seems like it might be based on the ability to have the display be in the top corner of your vision rather than the bottom corner like on the Jet. Maybe that makes a big difference, I'm just still wary because I didn't expect the Jet to bother me as much as it did.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I was laughing to myself about how there could have been a greyhound bus hidden behind it at that intersection he filmed that video at. Gen 2 or 3 of this thing might have clear plastic to try to compensate some for that.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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buzz wrote:

i'd rather have audio.

me too ... in a TT, with Jens Voigt's voice in my ear, telling my legs to shut up.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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buzz wrote:

i'd rather have audio.

and i find this kind of unnerving ... i like to know that if a person is looking in a certain direction they are actually, you know, seeing stuff.

We don't trust drivers texting/reading texts on their phone while driving. Why should this be any different with cycling?

I think as cyclists/triathletes we often think about being the victims of violent crimes, being hit my accidents, etc. Just today on TTF there was a post of a UK TT rider who died in an accident. This is tragic, yes, and i do not want to take away from that, but I would like to point out that bicycles are a deadly weapon as well. There have been fatalities from cyclists crashing into pedestrians.

My stance here might be an extreme one, but I'd like to think of it more as a "prove me wrong." Are you really able to be more attentive using this device compared to looking down at a gps once in a while? I think the idea of the product is interesting, albeit I'm not quite convinced I need it. I think it's bulky, dorky, and I agree with other posters, i don't want it in my face all the time.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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BrianB wrote:
buzz wrote:

i'd rather have audio.


me too ... in a TT, with Jens Voigt's voice in my ear, telling my legs to shut up.

It'd be far easier to make that product. You could either do a dedicated ANT+ receiver or bluetooth link to a separate recorder (would probably be preferable for cost/battery life) that just plays your selected metrics at a specified interval into a single-side ear piece. I'm picturing basically riding along and having a 1 sec interval announce your current power. Could also be a phone app of course but you'd still have to deal with ANT+ if you didn't have bluetooth sensors.

I tend to think if there was a market for it it'd already exist but who knows. The app version probably already exists.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [logella] [ In reply to ]
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logella wrote:
Because it's so difficult to glance down at a bike computer...

Actually, it can be on descents and with glare.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [logella] [ In reply to ]
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I think the biggest tie in here is with their radar and being able to constantly monitor for approaching traffic with this vs having to look down at your computer nonstop.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [LOW2000] [ In reply to ]
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LOW2000 wrote:
I think the biggest tie in here is with their radar and being able to constantly monitor for approaching traffic with this vs having to look down at your computer nonstop.
Mirror.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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I came across an audio solution about a year ago. Check out http://www.terranosystems.com

Several of the bikers in our regular riding group have them and it is great to communicate regarding traffic, dogs, etc. You can also receive phone calls on it while riding. The whole unit mounts to your helmet and is pretty durable after initial installation.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Think anyone using the varia radar is also using a mirror?
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [racehd] [ In reply to ]
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racehd wrote:
buzz wrote:

i'd rather have audio.

and i find this kind of unnerving ... i like to know that if a person is looking in a certain direction they are actually, you know, seeing stuff.


We don't trust drivers texting/reading texts on their phone while driving. Why should this be any different with cycling?

Not really the same thing.....this is basically a dashboard in your glasses, not texting while riding.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [aw3] [ In reply to ]
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aw3 wrote:

However, for cycling I still think this is a solution looking for a problem, I don't need stats or maps pumped into my eyes every second.

x2.

I don't see this as replacing my current bike computer. There is no way I'm spending $400, for a product that doesn't currently solve a problem I have.

I rather have a pair of sunglasses that absolutely does not fog, does a full transition from clear to 11% depending on lighting, and repels rain drops or tire spray a lot better. To me, that would greatly improve safety while riding 1000x more than this product will.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Would you buy it for lets say $275ish?
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Would you buy it for lets say $275ish?


I guess it depends. Currently I use Rudy Project Noyz frames with the photocromic 13-62% lenses. I think I paid around $160 total for the frame and upgraded lenses and I feel they were a good investment as the frames fit my face the best out of all the RP frames I tried, and the lenses give me good ability to ride in the dark and in the sun which is important as I commute before/after sunrise/sunset.

If these Garmin glasses could deliver the exact fit I want, with the exact lenses I want, and assuming I was in the market for new sunglasses...I would consider it for $250. I think $90 is about what I would feel is "worth it" to me to have data in my glasses when I know looking at my computer isn't really that hard.

If the Garmin glasses don't fit my face well, or can't deliver the lenses I need, then I wouldn't pay $20 for them. I rather just use my current glasses and look at my computer which hasn't ever been a problem for me up to this point.

ETA: I now notice it mounts to your current sunglasses. So yeah...assuming they don't ruin the comfort and fit of my current shades, then I'd pay $90 for them.
Last edited by: Jason N: Jan 5, 16 10:51
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [racehd] [ In reply to ]
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racehd wrote:
Are you really able to be more attentive using this device compared to looking down at a gps once in a while? I think the idea of the product is interesting, albeit I'm not quite convinced I need it. I think it's bulky, dorky, and I agree with other posters, i don't want it in my face all the time.

Well, I've seen tons of bike wrecks caused by people looking down at their bike computers and then not seeing something in the road. "Just looking down once in a while" is actually part of the problem, not the solution. One of my own worst wrecks was from looking down at my bike computer on what I thought was a totally safe road, one that I'd ridden a hundred times. I hit a rock and bam, total yard sale. The Garmin one may not be the perfect solution, but this kind of stuff could be great as it progresses.

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Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
I don't see this as replacing my current bike computer. There is no way I'm spending $400, for a product that doesn't currently solve a problem I have. .


I don't think you meant literally replace your computer, but it couldn't do that under the best of circumstances since it still requires a specific model of Garmin computer to aggregate the sensor data and pipe it to the glasses presumably over bluetooth.

The biggest struggle with devices of this type is probably battery life, you can only strap so big of a battery to the side of your head before people will simply not tolerate the weight. Recon tried to compensate for this by giving you two batteries with the intention that you'd just hot swap it during a longer ride. Garmin's take appears to be based on offloading as much processing as they can to your existing head unit and keeping the display as lightweight (physically and from a SW perspective) as possible to maximize battery life.

This would also explain why it's limited in compatibility to their latest and generally most powerful head units as it needs to piggyback off of their processors and batteries to a certain extent.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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So then thinking this through... Given current design limitations why wouldn't you just move everything to the helmet?
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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timbasile wrote:
So then thinking this through... Given current design limitations why wouldn't you just move everything to the helmet?

Guessing the mounting compatibility issues would be greater. Much easier to mount to the side of a sunglasses frame which are pretty standard and may require a few different sized rubber bands than trying to mount to all different types of road or aero helmets. Some of which may or may not have vents. Also much easier to get a snug fit of the display when it's mounted to the sunglasses frame, rather than have the display mounted to the helmet and forcing your sunglasses to rest up against it.
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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That is essentially what Daqri has done in the industrial sector: http://hardware.daqri.com/smarthelmet

The reason Glass flopped is because the technology really isn't there yet to do what we feel these devices ought to be capable of. Batteries are probably the biggest culprit in all of this as they are inherently governed by the laws of physics rather than moore's law so we see marginal gains rather than exponential.

By accepting these limitations we can create products today that live up to the consumer expectations in terms of capabilities but at the expense of conceding that the form factor will not be a "discrete" wearable but rather something that favors function over form. Daqri and Hololens come to mind.

While it would be possible to do the same thing with a bike helmet I just don't think the market for it would justify the design costs. Designing a good helmet is already difficult enough and you will immediately alienate some large segment of the market in the process of balancing weight versus ventilation versus aero. Assuming you get it right, you'll then have to battle the sticker shock as your msrp now has to account for helmet + display costs.

Considering the skepticism that many already have for these kinds of products, e.g. "a solution in need of a problem", you'd really have to deliver on the user experience in order to justify higher costs.

edit: You probably were talking about just mounting it on a helmet rather than integrating it in a helmet. It's a possibility but the compatibility and/or general clumsiness of it would probably outweigh the marginal gains.
Last edited by: tgarson: Jan 5, 16 13:31
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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ttaylo5] [ In reply to ]
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ttaylo5 wrote:
I came across an audio solution about a year ago. Check out http://www.terranosystems.com

Several of the bikers in our regular riding group have them and it is great to communicate regarding traffic, dogs, etc. You can also receive phone calls on it while riding. The whole unit mounts to your helmet and is pretty durable after initial installation.

Looks pretty cool

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Re: Garmin Varia Heads Up Display [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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ZenTriBrett wrote:


Well, I've seen tons of bike wrecks caused by people looking down at their bike computers and then not seeing something in the road. "


That's odd. In 20 or so years I can't think of one crash I blame on someone looking at their computer.

Edit: And I'll add a heads-up display doesn't "solve" the attention problem. Generally speaking, humans can only focus visual attention on one thing at a time. Even if your eyes are in the direction of the road, if your attention is on your power numbers in the heads-up display, you might as well be looking down. A heads-up display does save the time and effort to look up and down, though. But paradoxically, by making it easier to give your attention to the screen it might actually reduce overall attention to the road and be more of a safety problem than a computer. Particularly with phone and text messaging features.
Last edited by: trail: Jan 5, 16 15:32
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