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Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant)
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You may find this highly offensive. You may not.

People have freaked out.

The city of Houston is gone. Not destroyed. Vacant. People are no where to be found. Everyone has left. Frankly, I don't know why. I am 50+ feet above sea level and I am better than 60 miles from the coast of Galveston. I live west of downtown. I am the only person on my block that has stayed. I am not in a mandatory evacuation zone. I am 10+ miles from a voluntary evacuation zone. Again, I am the only person left on my block of over 50 houses.

Everyone that has paid an iot an iota of attention knows that the freeways have been gridlocked for over two days. Let me tell you why.

The city and state government have done an incredible job of getting the people that need to leave town out of town. For every one person that needed to evacuate, there are probably five that left that didn't need to. As I said before, there are over 50 houses on my block. Since I'm the only one that left, that means probably 40+ cars got on the highway that didn't have to. And they got to the road ways before and at the same time so many others needed to leave. ad to leave. This is the reason the freeways are gridlocked. This is the reason there is no gas. This is the reason why people have run out of gas on the freeways. It sucks.

I live 60 miles from the coast. People heard the hurricane might come to Houston and they dropped everything and left. I picked up baby joggers, swings, flagpoles, benches and rocking chairs, baseball bats, 2x4's from homes being built down the street (tons of other things). So many things that could have been turned into 50+ MPH missles and put them in my garage. People didn't take one minute to think about the process. It was complete pandemonium.

Is it any wonder why so many fled? After seeing Katrina? No. Please. For those of you who ever find yourselves in a situation like this-----Maintain your composure-----Think about the benefits of your actions versus the costs, to yourself and to others---Think about how your actions affect those around you-----Do not, in your haste, forget that others may face far graver danger than you and need the right and time to leave before you, to get what they need before you or ask for it first.

This is just a rant.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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All no thanks to the media and the 'horror' stories... and an administration that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Having gone through a Category5 last year by the name of Ivan, and losing a lot of stuff I would not evacuate, but I would have my family out of here in a flash. Simply for their own comfort, it is no place for two kids and an adult to be if there is no power, running water or sanitation.

Hope all goes well for you- FEMA... should stand for Fu*#ing Emibiciles Missing it All...
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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P.S.

Houston Mayor Bill White for president. Not only did the guy NAIL the execution of absorbing the city of New Orleans in every way, shape and form. He has stood fast in Houston's greatest time of need in arguably 50+ years.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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I too am waiting the storm out in Spring, near The Woodlands and am amazed at the amount of people that have left my neighborhood. The oldest houses in this subdivision are 4 years old, and in no danger of blowing apart yet this place is a ghost town. Driving down 45 was a little eerie as there were very few cars. I agree with James, people have lost their frickin minds. I contemplated an evening bike ride as the winds have picked up and thought it would be a great training session, but unfortunately the wife vetoed it vehemently. I guess one of us has to look out for me.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Jerrodg] [ In reply to ]
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The oldest houses in this subdivision are 4 years old, and in no danger of blowing apart yet this place is a ghost town.
That's where you are mistaken... they are in the greatest danger of blowing apart. On any city on the Gulf Coast or East Coast it's the older houses with their superior craftsmanship that suffer the least damage... the ones that were built with 2x4's that were actually 2 x 4 inches and made of hardwood and not the 1 3/4 x 3 3/4 soft pine that you can drive a nail in with one blow. Solid core hardwood doors, not the lightweight crap on the new houses. I can go on and on... the old houses are built better... that's why hurricane after hurricane they're still there.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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wow, I kind of wondered what it was like down there.

Don't loot TOO much...


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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Diablo-Advocato] [ In reply to ]
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Well, here in hurricane country people are building their houses with hurricane straps. They go through the roof and the framing of the house to keep the roof from blowing off. Our house is also made of 2x6's on the exterior framing with brick siding.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Jerrodg] [ In reply to ]
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thank God I live in Maine....all we have to worry about is freezing our butts off in the winter and black flies.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Jerrodg] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, because the houses built in the 70's were loosing their roofs at the hint of high winds so building codes were enacted in the mid-70's requiring them. Makes you wonder why the older houses didn't need them, huh?
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [peethreeguy] [ In reply to ]
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I moved here from Utah, where the only natural disasters were the politics.. Oops, sorry. Lavender room comment. Seriously though, in Utah near Moab all we had were cold winters and windy days.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Diablo-Advocato] [ In reply to ]
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I am not countering the fact that some old houses are built very well, I am suggesting that the houses where I live should be built as well. We live 80 miles from the coast and 90% of the subdivision has evacuated. Even after the projections showed it dropping to a class 3 (which it has) and moving east putting us the the better side of the eye, people were still heading out of here into traffic. At one point it was taking 17 hours to drive to Dallas which is 225 miles from Houston.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Jerrodg] [ In reply to ]
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On another note, on Thursday my wife had a chocolate craving, but there was no way she was going to drive to the store. I hopped on my bike, rode in the opposite lane of traffic (not on the freeway of course) down to the store about 7 miles away. I bought her Oreos waiting in line for 45 minutes, loaded them in my backpack and rode home. The looks I got from people as I passed by there idle cars at 30 mph (tailwind) was priceless. Coming back I tried to suppress my grins as I saw the same people 1 mile further down the road. I felt bad for them, but did see humanity come out. People that lived along the street (Rayford road for those that know Spring) were bringing water out, and I saw one lady with a HUGE bowl of fruit salad dishing it up to give to people stuck in there cars.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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Ok let me just throw this out there, and of course correct me if I'm wrong.

In the LR there was a bit of discussion on how far inland one of these babies can go. According to some source, can't remember where, a CAT 5 storm that took a bee-line to Dallas feesibly could still be a CAT 1 by the time it hit Dallas.

A few Calculations later I came up with roughly 1 Category lost per every 75 miles or so. So if you're only 60 miles off the coast isn't quite possible a CAT5 storm would still be a CAT5 by the time it hit your nik of the woods? I don't think your home is rated for a CAT5 storm.

Again maybe I'm wrong, and I agree people should keep there wits about them, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Right now it looks like you'll be fine as it's no longer coming directly at Houstan and it's settled down to a CAT3, No? However had things been different and it held it's strength and did go directly at Houstan....did you really want to ride out a CAT5?

In essence this is exactly how NO happened. Many years of "misses" and people becam,emore and more complacent. Then one day Wammo! Instead of the town being a ghost town like it should be EVERY time it wasn't and we have a HUGE mess and a HUGE cost. Both alot worse than it needed to be.

~Matt
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [MJuric] [ In reply to ]
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It is downgraded to a CAT3 storm by landfall, and the eye has moved 40-60 miles east. The west side of a hurricane is the mild side, and isn't as severe. Wind projections as of yesterday morning had winds at 75-85 MPH in my area which is strong, but not enough to obliterate a neighborhood.
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Post deleted by astrotri [ In reply to ]
Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Jerrodg] [ In reply to ]
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Again this time. However had you still been there now and it was CAT5...you'd be SOL. Add to that you can't predict whether it was going to stay CAT5 or go lower, so you would have had to wait to find out. By the time you find out...you're SOL.

Point is you and people like you got lucky this time. Next time, as been proven in NO and countless other places, mabey not so much.

Posting, saying and expressing things in a manner of "Man those people are idiots fro leaving" will only encourage people to stay. Then 10,15 or more years down the road we'll only half the city responding to a mandatory evacutaion and thousands will be dead.

~Matt
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Post deleted by astrotri [ In reply to ]
Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [astrotri] [ In reply to ]
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"Your 20/20 hindsight is fucking infuriating. Do you have a time machine or something, because if not, then your sarcastic, righteous indignation is totally out of line."

Hey I thought I said something like that already...not quite so eloquently though.

~Matt
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [astrotri] [ In reply to ]
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I guess I miss the source of your infuriation. I don't think it is hindsight when on Thursday morning the tracking center tells you that the storm has shifted east, and was downgraded to a CAT 4. By late morning these same experts that you say should be listened to say that it will continue to weaken. Seems to me there is nothing sarcastic, rightous or reeking of indignity about it. I made a decision to stay based off of what experts told me, and am just pointing out my reasons. I'm entitled to the opinion that other people in may neighborhood are overly skittish as much as you are entitled to one thinking I am a jackass.
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Post deleted by jameshinton [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: jameshinton: Sep 23, 05 18:33
Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I think some people missed the point that we weren't under evacuation orders where we are at.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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Well James, our thoughts are with you. You are an unselfish and thoughtful person. I am sure you will make it through this well.

Dev
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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James, my wife's father lives in Houston. He's staying. He's located over by the Summit, if you're looking for someone to hang out with. He loves to talk boxing.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
Last edited by: TripleThreat: Sep 23, 05 18:43
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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perhaps someone left behind a now limited edition P3SL? eh haha

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Personal Training and Sports Conditioning
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW This is the same scenario that was played out dozens of times in New Orleans over the last 25 years. Quick haull ass, big'un headed this way..... just missed us next time we'll stay. So many of the people who had to be rescued from rooftops had the same mindset. I have had numerous folks state to me that they didn't leave because they had left so many times before for no good reason. It's hard to make the choice between and "inconvenience" or your life. And yes your house can take 85mph gusts of wind from time to time . But it most likely would not stand up to 85mph winds sustained for 4 or 5hours which is well with in the realm of a storm like this one. I was in Houston a few years ago when a tropical storm completely flooded certian parts of town. YOU GOT LUCKY
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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Lets get an update...
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [MJuric] [ In reply to ]
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Norleans happens to be BELOW sea level. That is a huge diff. from 50 ft above sea level!
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [astrotri] [ In reply to ]
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If I may interject my opinion, JamesHinton is somewhat correct in feeling this way. The emergency services, mayor, county judges, etc. did not call for an evacuation of all of Houston, Harris county, or the surrounding areas. The evacuation was called for Galveston and all areas in the 100 year flood plain. The fact that 2.5 million people hit the road is simply amazing and more than the infrastructure could handle. The people in Galveston and the low lying areas needed to evacuate starting Tuesday night and did. Everyone else evacuating, which is well within their right, created issues as the storm track moved and more areas needed to be added to the mandatory evacuation lists. The fact that the storm was going to weaken was not speculation, it was forecast two days in advance of landfall. The storm had no choice but to pull dry air from the mainland which was going to weaken it. The only thing not known is exactly where the storm would make landfall. Houston and the surrounding areas is a completely different story than New Orleans and Katrina. The majority of Houston and the area are not below sea level, the densest population is 20 miles inland and there is no Lake Pontchartrain with weak levees sitting above the city ready to dump its contents on the city. New Orleans survived Katrina, it did not survive levees giving way and a lake looking for a new low point to exist in. Houston also doesn't suffer from the abject poverty that surrounds New Orleans, there are areas that need our help, but we dont have parishes that are nothing more than shanty towns. More people than needed to have evacuated, that is a fact and it has been a learning experience for the local government. Issues arose, issues were dealt with, and hopefully everyone that needed/wanted to get out were able to do so.

I'll be in my house, my horses have been evacuated and my house has been secured as much as can be. I'm 80 miles inland, northwest of Houston and quite happy that the storm continued to move East. We were prepped and ready to move if it looked like we needed to yesterday, but the information that was available as early as yesterday morning was enough that folks on the west side of Houston could breathe a little easier.

Mark
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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Not really...only 75 feet or so.

Point is a hurricane is freakin' dangerous and unless the weather channel purposely screws everything up, pretty unpredicatable. Had the damn thing stayed a CAT4-5 and not veered the OP would not be in such good shape right now.

~Matt
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [MJuric] [ In reply to ]
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You're assuming that wind velocity drops at a constant rate once a storm makes landfall. It doesn't. Instead you normally get one pretty big drop when the storm makes landfall, and then a period of gradual weakening.

I'm surprised at how many people 40+ miles from the coast in high elevation, built to code homes are evacuating. In these parts, 30 miles inland and at high elevation is the place you evacuate to, not the place you leave from.

And as long as you've practiced good tree maitenance, 80 mph winds for 4-8 hours sounds pretty scary, but really isn't that big of a deal for a built to code home. We got that for Ivan, and the homes came through okay unless they'd been hit by one of the fucking non-native shortleaf pines that went down.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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Wow this is an interesting thread filled with paranoid media comments.

1) NO was not nearly the worst damaged from Katrina. Check out Miss. Beloxi is GONE.

2) NO was flooded out not because the concrete levys broke. The dirt and sand underneath them got washed out and the concrete simply had nothing supporting in, then the city was flooded. NOTICE THOSE BUILDINGS ARE STILL THERE JUST FLOODED. The winds of a CAT 5 did not destroy the city it got flooded. Its hard to flood a city thats 50 ft above the water levels in the areas.

3) Houston was not under an evacuation NO was.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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3) Houston was not under an evacuation NO was.
Huh?
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Diablo-Advocato] [ In reply to ]
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This is correct. Only Galveston, Galveston county, and those areas of Houston/Harris County in the 100 year flood plain were part of the original call for evacuation, this is essentially southeast Houston and those areas near the ship channel. That was modified to include areas further east of Houston as landfall predictions were modified.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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those areas of Houston/Harris County in the 100 year flood plain
That's almost all of Houston proper...
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Diablo-Advocato] [ In reply to ]
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Not really, it's actually probably less than 25% of Houston proper. Here's the original evacuation map: http://www.khou.com/...vacuationMap2005.pdf
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Not really, it's actually probably less than 25% of Houston proper. Here's the original evacuation map: http://www.khou.com/...vacuationMap2005.pdf
While that is the evacuation map, it does not represent the 100 year flood plain according to a distant cousin who is an engineer in Houston.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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As a matter of fact, to point out how inaccurate your information is, each of Houston's many bayous are in the 100-year flood plain and that is not reflected by your map.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Not really, it's actually probably less than 25% of Houston proper. Here's the original evacuation map: http://www.khou.com/...vacuationMap2005.pdf
Looks like more than 50%: http://www.westurealestate.com/floodplain.htm check the FEMA links and look at the different parts of town. Regardless, most of Houston floods when it rains...
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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James,

Let me guess, you are white. If minorities run around picking up their neighbor's stuff and putting it in their own garage they call it looting. All the people in New Orleans were just trying to make sure all the stuff didn't float away from the stores.

I wouldn't have left either, in your situation.

A hurricane, even a cat 5, becomes a tropical storm very quickly after moving over land. The problem with New Orleans was the below sea level deal, not the wind.

Katrina, when it hit NO, was a cat 3. Here is the saffir-simpson description for cat 3 (just moving across the Mississippi delta dropped the wind from 150 to 125 mph):

Winds 111-130 mph (96-113 kt or 178-209 km/hr). Storm surge generally 9-12 ft above normal. Some structural damage to small residences and utility buildings with a minor amount of curtainwall failures. Damage to shrubbery and trees with foliage blown off trees and large trees blown down. Mobile homes and poorly constructed signs are destroyed. Low-lying escape routes are cut by rising water 3-5 hours before arrival of the center of the hurricane. Flooding near the coast destroys smaller structures with larger structures damaged by battering from floating debris. Terrain continuously lower than 5 ft above mean sea level may be flooded inland 8 miles (13 km) or more. Evacuation of low-lying residences with several blocks of the shoreline may be required.

If I'm 15 miles inland or more (like Houston, for example) I'm staying put.
Last edited by: kdw: Sep 23, 05 20:16
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Diablo-Advocato] [ In reply to ]
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Correct, this is the evacuation map, not the 100 year flood plain, that would include the bayous that run through the city and would include areas of downtown, Bellaire, bear creek, astrodome complex, etc. While I don't have a distant cousin that is an engineer, I have lived here all my life and have been here for all the major storms since the early 70's. Nothing flooded the city like Allison. A stalling of the storm could cause flooding of the same magnitude, but the weather forecast is for the storm to continue on its track into northeast Texas. They've also piled $600 million into the system to help alleviate the flooding issues that Allison showed us.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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They've also piled $600 million into the system to help alleviate the flooding issues that Allison showed us.


But as my cousin said "no matter what you do to try to aleviate flooding in Houston it's hard to get around all the concrete and clay soil..."

For you guys I hope the model that has it parked over Harris County after landfal is incorrect.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Diablo-Advocato] [ In reply to ]
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Houston is an impossible city to drain. The concrete, the redirection of the bayous, and the soil base make drainage a problem throughout the area. If the storm parks over the county or just north of the county, it will flood again, no question. My decision to stay, and James' is based on the fact that we live well outside of the city proper. Myself, I'm 80 miles inland, 45 miles northwest of the city. Allison flooded my pasture, but it was dry within 3 days.

The point earlier was just that there wasn't a NEED for everyone that did evacuate to evacuate. It led to problems for the people that NEEDED to evacuate to be able to do so. That and the fact that the evacuation routes were not supplied with extra gasoline.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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Dear Mr. fiddlesandbikes:

In case you were not aware, there are a few inviolable rules on this forum:

1) Pics...or it didn't happen;
2) Your seat is too high;
3) Posted messages may not contain as much as a scintilla of common sense or they will be subject to immediate excoriation;
4) If aren't ripping someone apart in your posts, please refrain from posting at all.

It has been brought to our attention that you and several others are responsible for posts to this forum which are in violation of rule #3. We must ask that you refrain from posting any message containing "common sense" in the future.

Sincerely,

The Management

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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The majority of the city of Houston's population lies north, west, and southwest of downtown. From downtown to Kingwood, downtown to Woodlands, downtown to Champions, downtown to Katy, downtown to Sugar Land.

None of these people are within the 100 year flood plain. None of the people were under voluntary evac. It is not the same as NO. We knew Thursday that the storm would be downgraded. The experts knew it so we knew it. We knew Friday morning, more than 12 hours before landfall, that the storm had a 95% chance of landing more than 100 miles east of Galveston.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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The fool confuses luck with wisdom.

The fool damns the media and government if they do and damns the media and government if they don't.

There sure are plenty of fools around.

Bob C.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Local Star] [ In reply to ]
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perhaps someone left behind a now limited edition P3SL?
Good idea. You should check all of your neighors homes to make sure they are secure, and that their valuables are still safe. Plasma TV, jewelry. In fact, maybe you should take them back to your house where you can look after them.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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lol 50 mile an hour baby jogger. That's one happy kid i'll say :D

Sorry didn't mean to poke a joke at such a serious manner.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [jameshinton] [ In reply to ]
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I have evacuated 3 times this year so far. It was a good move in every case even though we did not get a direct hit as the power was out for several days. Being without power when it is 95 degrees with 90% humidity is not fun and I have no desire to experience that. However, I got out early and did not have to fight any traffic. The key is to make a move early. 1 day before the storm is not a good time to hit the road. I still think that evacuation is a good idea. You never know if a tree is going to fall on your house and kill everybody inside.

Mike
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Haim] [ In reply to ]
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I think I'll stick to Tri-DRS.

The storm is passed us, although it is still a little windy at times. We didn't lose power, we got less than .25" of rain, and I just had a nice waffle for breakfast. Wisdom, luck, foolishness, whatever, we're safe and I'm thankful for that.

Mark in Houston
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Diablo-Advocato] [ In reply to ]
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I live in St Augustine, FL. My home was built in 1918. The walls are 2 full sets of brick and 15" inch!! I couldn't even hear 80mph winds last year standing in my parlor!!

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Paul
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [zipp] [ In reply to ]
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Also please remember that the wind speeds posted on the Weather Channel, and as far as I can tell, every other news channel in the USA are wind speeds at altitudes of 3-5 thousand feet above sea level. the last time I looked my house was no where near that tall. When Rita passed a bouy as a cat5 in the middle of the Gulf they were reporting winds of 175 mph, yet the bouy near the eye wall was reading less then 100.

They love to scare people. I'm really sick of the BS that the Weather Channel reports. Its all for ratings. they scared way too many people and it caused lots of problems in Texas.

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Paul
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [astrotri] [ In reply to ]
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Sort of agree with your points "reality" but the original
post mentioned he wasn't in the mandatory evacuation zone so he did listen to authorities. I just heard on news a question from some guy in charge if people coming back in would cause traffic jams and should they come in by zip code or stages. He said the problems with the evacuation and traffic jams were caused by people who were not supposed to evacuate and were not in the mandatory evacuation zones mainly because they were scared out of their wits with Katrina and by the media which jamesshinton was pretty much making that point. So actually jamesshinton did listen to authorities and did exactly what he was supposed to do stay put.
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [Casey] [ In reply to ]
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Now watch the pople that left ignore the state and city gov't's plea to stay away. Watch all the traffic jams happen all over again...
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Re: Rita and the great freak out of 2005 (rant) [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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I'm happy to hear you're safe Mark.

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"
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