Those replies are hysterical....ever actually said them?

Roadies are a funny sort...never, ever meet up with this attitude in the pool or running. Only cycling.

And at least once or twice on a weekend day, I'll see a super-Fred with his Saeco team gear on, belly sticking waaaaaay over the shorts, knees sticking waaaaay out on either side of his Schwinn and I laugh. He'd probably fit right in with the rest of the roadies. ;-)

LOL.

That's what makes us sexy. Were not roadies.

In 20+ years of riding with a mixture of triathletes and roadies I have never heard any of, what you said, said. Part of the problem is too many triathletes, showing up for two many group road rides on fully tricked out tri bikes and the nearly naked apperal styles that seem to appeal to the tri crowd. Next time, try blending in a bit more - show up with a road bike and wear normal cycling apparel. That's what I always did, and as I mentioned, I have never had a problem in 20+ years of riding. Actaully, there seemed to be a tremedouns amount of mutual respect.

Having been exposed to what goes on mid bike pack in a triathlon, recently, There is a moderate amount of truth to what those roadies where saying

- Bottles are launched from behind the seat cages

- triathletes do tend to weave all over the road

- triathletes don't seem to know the basics of how to corner, climb or descend

My apologies if I offended anyone. Just my observations.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

And roadies TEND to be stuck up and think they are all high and mighty. Not apologizing...my observations as well. But maybe they tend to be like that in Southern Ontario.

You wouldn't have to ride it down hill since tri bikes can't climb up the hill in the first place. *grin*

That's BS. It's the only bike that I have. I don't know where you've been riding but I here that kind of stuff at times even b4 I've showed up. Once I let the cat out of the bag that I have a tri-specific bike I here IT and plenty more. I ride with a helmet, shades, jersey and shorts just like everyone else. One bottle cage. I KIS. NEVER launched a bottle, and I have seen my share of roadies bite the BIG one in pace lines. They don't swet the guy with the cargo pants, camelback, and 2 water bottles on the titanium special. That's too easy I suppose. Plenty of the roadies are showing up waaayyyyy more decked out than I see with the tri-groups.

I've seen aerowheels on the back (I thought the advantage was to place the aero wheel on the front), T-mobile from head to toe including the bike, us postal out the yen yang, but I don't clown. $400 dollar shoes, 6K colnagos you name it. I actually like to see this kind of stuff. It would be boring if we all had the same style ques. Once I ride with them they are more than respectful but all of that extra that goes on is way redundant.

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

Enough of the roadie b.s. already, they are lots of us on this board, we are friendly, even if we don't appear so when you run across us out training. More than anything it comes down to comfort in riding with a group you can trust. Aerobars are ok for some rides, like TTT training, just don't expect to be sprinting around in a group club ride with aerobars sticking out, ouch! I was on our club training ride three weeks ago where 3 riders went down hard and all went to the hospital, one is just now coming out of a coma and may have brain damage. Road club rides are more intense for the most part, and it really comes down to safety. Bring your road bike.

I hear/see this rant a lot.

I have been exposed to SOME of it, usually with regards to the bull horns and bar end shifters. I can understand why these items would put the uninformed or unfamilier a bit on the defensive. But I have generally avoided group rides for this very reason for the past few years.

I think there is an ''air'' about those who ride strictly road bikes vs. those who do triathlons. The ''air'' that I refer to is that of the cool kids on the football team. Cockiness, arrogance, and inability to immediately accept the new guy seem to dominate. There is usually a few who seem to be willing to forgo this mindset and accept the new guy, or in this case the triathlete. Triathlon on the other hand seems to be more of a more-the-merrier attitude. Just an observation.

I have been around sports my whole life and have seen this in one form or another. Soccer, swimming, track, football, wrestling, triathlon, even golf all have their elite crowds. Though I never played golf in an organized team/fashion, just the attitude in the club houses.

We are lucky here in AZ to have a new shop that is dedicated to multisport athletes and is working on bridging the gap between roadies and triathletes. This past saturday I did my first major group ride in years. (My workouts are usually with no more than 4 to 5 other riders) This ride had a combination of ~35 roadies and triathletes with none of the abrasive comments and stares.

That said, I don't think I would show up at a group ride, outside of this one most recent ride, with a TT bike. I am working getting a road bike for such purposes as I enjoy riding in a group. Just not subjecting myself to some of the baggage that seems to come with group rides on a TT bike.

I did enjoy your comments, especially the ''wash and repeat'' after climbing, downhills, and turns.

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Formally azclydesdale, back in Northeast Ohio.

They do have a point when a trigeek shows up on a TT bike to group ride and insists upon riding mid pack on the aero bars. Don't laugh - I've actually seen it happen. How stupid can a guy get - it's dangerous.

We have quite a number of trigeeks in our roadie group. Many of us have aero bars on our road bikes but we never ride on them with the group unless you're at the front pulling or have been dropped and are trying to catch up. Those of us who also have tri bikes leave them at home for the group rides.

The other day our group ride was stopped at the half way point and some solitary trigeek on a Cervelo Dual rode by. We waved at him but he totally ignored us with a scowl on his face. Quite funny because a number of us also own tri bikes. One of the roadies made the dig, "Good thing he didn't wave back. Wouldn't want to see him crash".

Maybe they give you a hard time because they can sense the rage inside of you.

I think Fleck makes some valid points...FWIW.

, "Good thing he didn't wave back. Wouldn't want to see him crash".[/reply]

Nope, can't see why any triathlete would think poorly about a roadie.
I would never even think about riding in my aero bars if on a group ride, however, if someone goes down in front of you...right in front of you on a group ride, the guy immediately behind him, is going down no matter what. I don't care if you are riding a tricycle, you are going down. Maybe 1% of the guys won't but you will.
Cut the garbage talk about triathletes. They are far more embracing than Roadies are.

Too bad roadies can't go over to Europe and get a taste what it is like to be thought of as a joke.

Greg,

Last weekend - two long rides two totrally different experiences:

Sat- Road with a great group of roadies from the local bike shop. We had an awesome double pace-line working for most of the 100K ride. Pace was solid 35 - 40K/h for most of the ride. We Eased off at the top of a few long climbs for some people to get back on. Great conversation about, cycling, politics and business.

Sun - Out by myself. Passed by four triathletes. I Jumped hard to get on. Got on the back, but it was clear that they were playing let's-drop-this-guy, but I just kept hanging on. No talk. Quite a bit of weaving around. A bit disorganized on the change-overs at the front, so it was heads-up for me at the back. I could have kept going, but I grew tired of the game after about 10 minutes and a bit nervous of the riding ability and backed off. I saw them later coming back towards me as they must have gone out and back on the same road. I waved and said, Hi. They did nothing - heads down and hammering. Nice friendly triathletes!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

First off I am a triathlete first, it is what I spend most of my time doing, almost more than working a job. Although I have not heard many of those comments, cyclists are very elitist about there sport so I know where you are coming from and cyclists don't want posers (my observation) however, the majority of triathletes are not very skilled bike handlers, they are out there alone with a 2m by 7m buffer to anyone else, it is a lot different than doing a group ride. Also you loose a lot of handling ability with a bullhorn set up especially on decents, the aero position isn't the most stable as well, and bar end shifters make riding in a group a little sketchy also when you have to shift.

A question why would you join a cyclists group ride as a triathlete anyway, AG'ers complains about drafting and how ITU pros aren't real triathletes so why would you ride with cyclists that a group that races that way where as probalby 99% of you race non-drafting only. Start a group ride of triathletes it would look pretty sweet looking like a TTT out there.

Branden

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"Here's to the finely tuned athlete on the verge of greatness"-Romeo, Tin Cup

Fleck...did you ask if they minded you jump on? Did you give them any warning you were back there or did one guy look back with surprise and low and behold you were there? Cause that has happened to me and that pisses me off. If you were nice enough to give a heads up and tell them you were there, then I agree, they were dicks to not say hello.

Maybe they felt the disdain you have for their cycling skills.

I don't think I understand all the generalities on this thread. There are friendly and unfriendly roadies and the same for tri. I have ridden with tri riders on our group ride, and always have a great time. People do not mix up with a group of road bikes when they are on their aero bars. I believe that is dangerous. When we ride, the guys on aero bars tend not to draft. If they are training for a TT, what is the purpose of drafting? It gives them a much tougher workout, but that's goood.

They knew I was there. Perhaps, it's just me. I think of the road as being open, free and social. If you can keep up, you are welcome.

I told the story, to illustrate that the old sterotypes are not as set and clear as everyone thinks.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

i ride only with roadies on my road bike. when I do get on the TT bike, its to go fast. Sure people can handle any bike (TT, Road, Recumbant, Track, etc.) but a lot has to do with what it was designed for.

A great many Tri people can not handle their bikes in a pack or in traffic. I race clydesdale and usually go off at the end. I have to pass lots of the women and 'lap traffic' and it can get really ugly back there, especially in climbs when they are weaving all over the road on a 200ft roller.

COnversely, I've been part of packs of people on TT bikes that did great. double pace line, long hard pulls, good work sharing. It all depends. But in my expereince, its few Tri people that can handle this.

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-zakk

Death Squad Cycling Club
http://www.ridethedeath.com


"Why is that people will drop $2000 on race wheels and a few c-notes for an ugly tattoo and then balk at the race fee?" - Blackie

Stephen,

The reason I started group riding in the first place was because I started doing triathlons. I realized during my first ever triathlon that my bike handling skills were sub standard and the best/fastest way to improve them was to ride with the roadies. I was never going to get better on the bike by riding by myself. My first group rides were terrible - I couldn't hold a strait line, was afraid of the rider's wheel in front of me, was generally clueless and got dropped off the back regularly at first. Fortunately our group had patience with me, helped me along and now these years later I'm an old pro on the group rides.

The best way to improve your cycling skills is to ride with roadies. You just will not develop as good handling skills riding solo. I just don't understand why so many triathletes are in denial of this. It should be obvious.

I understand your point of view especially with regards to handling and so forth, pace lines can be hairy. To answer your question in short, to get better. I want to be a better cyclist and I think to do so you must be able to ride comfortably under a wide variety of circumstances. Solo, group, wet, dry, climbing, descending. You need it all. And you're right, I don't dig drafting because I feel like I become stronger when I am pushing against the elements on my own but it is a very useful and technical skill to have. Ever ridden downhill in a race while being tight with other riders? It's defnitely a good thing to have in your arsenal. ITU is a whole different ballgame with regard to tactics. I actually want to do crits and stages once I can get a hold of a road bike.

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

"Roadies are a funny sort...never, ever meet up with this attitude in the pool or running. Only cycling."
I've been bumped into in the pool and on the track by people not paying attention to what they were doing. Didn't hurt much. Got taken down by a clueless rider in a pack. Hurt a lot, cost a lot in damaged equipment too. I'm a lot more careful about who I ride near than who I swim near. So if you show up for one of our team rides be prepared to show you have the skills to ride in a pack or else sit in at the back.

We might be in denial for a number of different reasons:

We don't have a road bike would seem to be the obvious.
We don't feel like we belong or aren't made to feel like we belong.
It doesn't fit in with our schedules.
Don't like riding in packs.

To name a few :)

maybe your group rides are a little different. I was a tri head until this season and the group I ride with tend to very structured. Most of us ride for the same club.

We do have at least 6 or more active tri heads training for either CDA and IMC who ride tri bikes with bar end shifters. Everyone is welcome, being able to ride straight and safe really helps. On the whole we do not have any problems but there are 2 basic rules a) dont use the rear water mount on group rides and b) dont sit in aerobars in a pace line. On average the group is about 30 strong depending on time of year.

And before you get defensive about the rear bottle cages - I have been on the receiving end of a flying water bottle in a double paceline going in excess of 35km. Scared the crap out of me. We all got out of the way by riding into the inside lane of the highway,which in itself was not the smartest thing to do.

On the issue of aerobars there are times when its encouraged but not when we are in a double paceline.

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__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

sounds fairly typical, fleck. I've tagged along with quite a few teams and was always welcome as long as I took my turn pulling and knew how to ride a double pace line. roadies aren't elitist, they just don't want to ride elbow to elbow with people who don't seem to know what they're doing. I road with a group in Bend, last week that was a mix of pro and amateur cyclists and triathletes and we all got along fine.

"We might be in denial for a number of different reasons: "

Fair enough, but it doesn't change my point that riding with the roadies on group rides will improve your bike handling skills.

Of course it depends on the group. I'm fortunate to ride with a small but hardcore group that includes some current and former road racers as well as a couple of mountain bike racers. These guys really know how to handle a bike and have taught me a lot. And I'm still learning.

SS,

This is a rant but I generally find this humoruos, unless my evil twin fireboy shows up. I thought it would be common sense to not use aerobars in a paceline no matter how skilled you are. That would bother me too. I'm not offended or defensive about the water bottles. Like I said originally, I usually blend with the exception of the aerobars. Even when I'm on my own and use the rear-mounted system, I don't launch bottles. Lucky I guess.

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

Too funny - we had a similar thing happen. We caught up with a local tri club group, both groups were in double pace line.

When their group leader noticed we were gettign close to coming up right behind them he came up to me and told us we could not ride with them! This was fine let us over take be gone instead he called his entire group to pull over to the side and stop! Which they did literally going from a nice easy double paceline one minute to a disorganised mess the next.

This almost caused a massive pile up. Bear in mind the combined groups totalled about 26 riders at the time. My partner in the pace line at the time was an Aussie who was quite shocked at the whole goings on. We were both ready to get off the bike and start a fight!

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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

Some good points by Fleck and asgelle on the topic of bike handling skills, etc. I would venture to say that most of us that meet up with roadies, whether by intentionally starting a ride with a group or coming across one in the middle of nowhere, will have some skills slightly above the average sprint-triathlete-newbie whose idea of a long ride is a 12 mile per hour jaunt for 3 hours. (I know folks like this...)

Typically when I do come across a large roadie group, no issues are to be found. They're cordial or for the most part don't pay attention...and I'm not out there to grab attention, either. I'll ride with them for a while, until we at some point go our separate ways. But I do also dress the part and ride like I know what I'm doing as well, which I'm sure goes a long way towards on-the-spot credibility.

Only once or twice in my riding career have I met up with "roadie attitude", and a quick acceleration past a pack of 30 riders in a few seconds usually makes me feel better.

Now, a better rant might be along the lines of bike shop employees...*much* more of an attitude in the shop than on the roads in my experience.

well put, it is nice to read that there are people that post hear that can think things other than "seat is to high" or "cervelo is the only bike to ride" (btw buy a bike that fits you correctly so you are the most powerfull and comfortable you can be)

I agree that is is a great way to get better, just take off the aero bars (if u can) or since you are a triathlete first get a cheaper road bike you aren't trying to be spectacular there so you don't need the lightest most high tech bike in that department.

Training tips, a great way to get the best out of a group ride as a triathlete is to take pulls at the front on a road bike, that makes you strong. Also spend a day a month where you work on your technical skills by yourself, cornering, decending, find a few friends and ride ez and try to get comfortable riding closer and closer together. And for group ride practice find a friend and practice bumping elbows/shoulders/handlebars, it happens in group rides on occasions so it is nice to be comfortable with it. Also a big thing is to beable to bump wheels, at a park have a friend slowly ride in front and gently let your front wheel tap their rear wheel, you will go down practicing (I have) but it is on a soft surface and you are moving slow so you can learn how to correct it and not go down, btw the person in front barely feels a thing.

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"Here's to the finely tuned athlete on the verge of greatness"-Romeo, Tin Cup

manonfire,

They are looking at you the same way that most triathletes look at the guy who shows up for a triathlong group ride on a mountain bike, or the guy who comes to swim wearing a woman's one-piece swimsuit (yes, there is one here in Tukson), the guy/chica who uses a wetsuit for pool swims, etc. You are simply out of place, not to say that you may be in damn good shape to keep up their cycling pace.

Additionally, aerobars are extremely dangerous in group rides, that is why they are outlawed in most organized group rides/races. While you may be well in control of your bike, when you are in a peloton you may end up going down because of someone else and it is then that the aerobars could inflict unnecessary injuries. Aerobars are also not necessary in a group ride anyway. Take them off and you'll be much more welcome in the group. Remember, it is a roadie group, so you might have to accept their "rules". Otherwise, if you do not want to hear/speculate what they are saying/thinking, just don't go.

Imaging a peloton crash, 20+ people going down and have those bikes had aerobars... the injuries would be much worse than if no bikes had aerobars.

In the meantime, enjoy some BBB... beer, burger and boobs. Cheers,

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Dickie Fernández

"Life is not about arriving to the grave in a well preserved, nice looking, smooth as silk and fresh body, but instead skidding in sideways in a overused, abused and rugged body with a martini in one hand, chocolate in the other and yelling 'woo hoo! What a ride!'"

eeeek - I know you know better than to jump onto a stranger's wheel.....

That drives me nuts!



IMO, "tight" group rides are for road bikes only. "Loose" group rides, anything flies.....

Why do you care if they tag along without asking? I almost always ride alone on a road bike ... no aero bars. I might ride with a friend on occasion but we don't draft. Often times someone will suck my wheel for a while ... it never bothers me. I am always aware enough of what is going on around me that I am never caught by surprise. But even if I did not know someone was drafting, it still would not bother me. When someone is behind me I signal hazards on the road and advise when an intersection is clear. If I did not know someone was behind me, I would not do that and it would be bad for them ... not me. Even in an emergency situation, I would react the same regardless of whether I know someone is behind me or not.

[/quote]dont know about you, I spent the first month of riding with a road group hanging on for dear life and 8 month late its only marginally better

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__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

Maybe this will help.



Roadies don't dislike triathletes. Really.

It is just a bad idea to ride your TT bike or Tri bike (or whatever you want to call it) in a group training ride. TT bikes don't handle the same as road bikes. Usually you can't stop very quickly (unless you have your brake lever on your aero bars)

My left shoulder was pretty much totalled out by a guy who decided to do our group ride on his TT bike. The guy is a roadie, and should know better. the ride started getting fast and people were making attacks. I was following an attack. Dipshit on his tt bike thought he would join the fun. he leaned like he would on a road bike, the bike swerved and took out my front wheel. We were going about 30mph.



I woke up in a hospital. My last clear memory is seeing my potato chipped wheel wobbling down the road. pretty much mangled my shoulder. to this day, my shoulder will just flop out of joint occasionally. All thanks to Gary on his TT bike. It wasn't intentional. TT bikes just aren't nimble enough for the silly shit roadies do in a pack.

When we are on group rides and someone shows up on a TT bike, I always ask them to ride at the very back or the very front. I try to explain my concern without being a dick.

So, if you want to ride in a pack of roadies, ride a road bike. If you want to go practice TT work or handling your TT bike around other TT'ers go ride with people with a similar objective. don't crash (ha!) a road ride on your TT bike and expect everybody to be glad your there.

If you have a problem with roadies, don't ride with them. You will all be happier. It's so simple. try it!

If being told that your TT bike doesn't belong on a group road ride makes you sad, I say just go ahead and cry. let it all out. It's ok to cry. crying won't make you look any more ridiculous than your batman ballhanger and jogbra.

that is signature material right there, folks

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-zakk

Death Squad Cycling Club
http://www.ridethedeath.com


"Why is that people will drop $2000 on race wheels and a few c-notes for an ugly tattoo and then balk at the race fee?" - Blackie

>>I play nice, trust me, you'll see.<<
Why should I trust you when you show up to a group ride on a TT bike? Cycling is a different kind of sport. If you swim or run in groups, no other swimmer, and no other runner can inflict the kind of damage on you that a cyclist in a pack can inflict. You have to trust that everyone in the pack is safe enough not to ruin months of training and bodily injury. That’s the difference. That you don’t see this nuance in cycling really is the problem. Aerobars and your TT position, even in a small paceline as in a TTT, are dangerous. In fact some teams are going away from aerobars in the TTT, as the bike is much less controllable.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/jun05/protourttt05/?id=nld-gero-83

When a guy shows up for a group ride with aero bars you know from the start that it isn’t the safest of situations. It’s like pulling up to a gas station with a guy filling up his car while smoking. There are some risks at a filling station anyway, so why increase it? It doesn’t mean that the guy definitely will blow the place up, but it shows that the guy either doesn’t understand the risk, or doesn’t care. Either way it doesn’t matter, he is still putting you at potentially a large risk. I don’t care if the guy says he’s a great lit cigarette handler, I just want him to put the damn thing out. Same with TT bikes, I don’t care if you are great on your TT bike, can handle the pace, or whatever, if you are in a very forward position, and you are using aerobars, don’t show up for a group ride.

Just like a triathlete, show up to a road ride on a TT bike. You sometimes deserve what you get. I don't ride my MTB on the track either.

What group is this?

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

Several

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

Wow. This is some seriously funny shit. There is NO doubt that some few roadies are arrogant shit-heads, as are some select triathletes. At least in Central Florida, for the most part, they mix quite well. In fact, I feel confident saying that some of the fastest rides in town are dominated by triathletes, who in turn, get considerable respect from the roadies. Our wednesday ride out of Windermere Elementary has a decent mix of both types of riders. If you can't pull on the flats at 30+, you won't be in the front pack, plain and simple. And guess who pulls that front pack: the triathletes. The roadies takes some shortish pulls, sometimes skipping a pull, either holding on for dear life or saving their legs for the final sprint. The triathletes use their bull strength to try to destroy the roadies. It's a cat and mouse game, and we all love it. Many of the triathletes have road bikes as well, and are fairly good at race tactics, and therefore can play plenty of games with the roadies. It's all good. We all pursue one common love. Get over the "i'm better than you mantra . . ." And PS, my post is not in direct reply to whomever I am replying too.

Isn't it? ;-) I'm off to ride with my roadie friends on my tri-bike. It's all I got so BOOM!

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

Do you have these types of issues in other social settings as well?

The tri vs roadie thing may be real to some degree but you also kinda sound like the type of person who might have trouble getting invited back to the monthly neighborhood bridge game too.

You are not kidding. This is hilarious. This is a repetative thread, so let me repeat something I have said before:

I have ridden with cyclists who are dicks, cyclists who are nice, triathletes who are dicks, and triathletes who are nice. Triathletes are more fun at parties, by far, and the women are hotter...BY FAR.

Sorry if this offends anyone. I know there are some hot cycling chicks out there, just not so many of them.

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"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM

You got that right: triathlete chickies are definitely hotter!

>>Don't want or need your trust. I was being facetious. As a matter of fact, probably would not be able to ride with you as I don't know you. <<

That’s fair. What is your Tri setup (slam, fist, etc), and what bars, shifters, brake levers are you riding? What types of group rides are you talking about? Are they four or six corner criterium type rides or are they long open road rides?

>>Wow. You are way off base with this one. You mean to tell me that showing up to a group ride with aerobars is a danger that mirrors the possiblity of blowing something up? Are you serious? <<

No I qualified it in the following sentence. There is risk to riding in a group, and riding a TT/Tri bike with the associated geometry and position increases the risk. Maybe a bad analogy, but nothing you said changes this. If you are never in the aerobars that’s fine, but if you are in a typical Tri or TT position you will be more forward and lower in the front than you would on a road bike, which changes the handling of the bike, and I think that this is the thing you aren't understanding.

>>As if he set out on his TT/tri-bike whatever to harm someone else. I had something really crass to write but since this is the internet that would be such a waste.<<

I'm not suggesting that, so I will elaborate. If you think about it, there are only two options. Either you know that a TT/Tri bike setup is designed to be extremely stable in straight line riding and therefore very sluggish in tight cornering situations or you don’t. And if you do know that it is more dangerous and still ride it, then you believe the risk is not worth considering. OR maybe you believe that a TT/Tri bike and associated position is equally responsive as a road bike with its associated position? If that is what you believe that’s fine. I think it’s wrong and here’s why.

Typically on TT or Tri position the goal is to try and maintain a 90 degree hip angle. Once the angle is smaller than 90 degrees, most riders lose comfort. In the most basic form the TT/Tri bike is designed to maintain good body angles for power and comfort, and provide an aero position. The best way to get more aero AND maintain good body angles is to lower the rider and roll their pelvis forward. But if you roll someone forward you need to support them differently than if they are on a road bike. On a road bike your torso is mainly supported by your abdominal muscles, back muscles, your arms and a little bit by your butt. On a TT/Tri bike almost all of your torso support is provided by your skeleton (arms) which most fitters attempt to position around 90 degrees to horizontal, in conjunction with the aerobars. So if you are in or out of the bars it doesn’t matter, due to geometry and fit, more weight is going to be on the bars. You can’t think that since you are out of the aerobars therefore the entire geometry of your bike changes. This will effect how the bike will handle. TT/Tri bikes will also have a slacker head tube angle, lower bottom bracket, shorter chainstays, and a slightly longer fork rake. All of these things along with your bike fit are designed into a TT/Tri bike in order to be more comfortable and stable while in the aero position. A properly fit and built TT/Tri bike, will be very stable and comfortable while in the aerobars, AND it will minimize aerodynamic drag. However, a TT/Tri geometry frame will not handle quickly or have the cornering clearance of a road frame, which makes it more dangerous in a group ride (especially criterium) or hard cornering situations. You can't have everything, and you don't.

The other day our group ride was stopped at the half way point and some solitary trigeek on a Cervelo Dual rode by. We waved at him but he totally ignored us with a scowl on his face. Quite funny because a number of us also own tri bikes. One of the roadies made the dig, "Good thing he didn't wave back. Wouldn't want to see him crash".

This could totally be me, except I would be the guy on the Dual politely waving and saying good morning or whatever...and being resolutely blanked by every group of Lance-a-likes I encounter. Maybe I stink, or my plain coloured unsponsored bike attire is too bland, or there is some other roadie rule I am breaking.

Who knows?

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kiwipat

per ardua ad astra

Never really understood this neither. I used to occasionally ride with some guys , but often found it wasn't helping me accomplish my goals. Was often more of a " you should get one of these bikes " . Considering that I train for long-distance triathlons and have a small apartment , it and many other silly comments just annoyed me.

I ride ,how I want to ride and when I want to ride. The format of my rides is always based on me improving as a cyclist.

I have zero interest in all the chatting and crap that get's in the way of improvement. Cycling in my books is training , if I want to socialize I'll go for coffee.

I'm not a great cyclist , but welcome anybody who wishes to join in my rides under my parameters. If they don't like my TT bike then @#$# off !

Great day to all btw!

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr. Raymond Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky. Rivers and seas boiling.
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, TRIATHLETES AND ROADIES TRAINING TOGETHER - mass hysteria.

wow. people here really just can't resist the urge to make sweeping generalizations. it's as if all roadies must be alike and all triathletes must be alike. my experience: many roadies are cool and accepting. many triathletes are cool and accepting. a few of each are assholes. kind of like what you'd get if you took a random fucking sample of the general population. what an amazing concept.

I've never said anything on this topic, but it seems that every week there's at least one thread about this, that then goes into more tri vs. roadie shit. when it seems a fair number of people, including some of the long-timers on ST, are both. why? why?? @#%^ uff da. I just don't get why people feel the need to get into it, when if you stop making huge generalizations, it just isn't an issue. ok, maybe some of the roadies at X club in Y city in Z state act that way. not exactly an issue for the board. keep an open mind and think a little.

ok. I'm done.

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__________________________________________________
"At every endurance event, there comes a time when you'll say, 'What the fuck am I doing here?' And then you'll say, 'This is what I do.'"
--John Spas

>>That’s fair. What is your Tri setup (slam, fist, etc), and what bars, shifters, brake levers are you riding?<< What does that matter?

Personal questions ay. Am I riding slack or steep and what angle? Your answers are irrelevant to the point of Roadies & Triathletes coexisting harmoniously. Maybe it's too much to ask for. I will proceed anyway.

>>What types of group rides are you talking about? Are they four or six corner criterium type rides or are they long open road rides?<<

Neither crit type. Open loop, and very wide open courses. Riders can go 8+ wide with ease, very non-technical. You could turn a couple of school buses though there and still have room. Many long open road rides and due to attrition, pacelines are not maintained throughout. On some rides there is plenty of open space between riders. When I ride with the groups on open long roads I have done way more than my share of the pull. Drop back, fall in and continue without fail. Not saying that an accident is impossible.


>>No I qualified it in the following sentence.<< Not really but I'll let that go.

>>There is risk to riding in a group..<< Never refuted that. There is an inherent danger to riding a bike at all.

>>which changes the handling of the bike, and I think that this is the thing you aren't understanding.<< Please do not speak for me. I'm no fit expert and never brought that into discussion but please just ask me if I understand. I do know the differences between tri and road bikes.

>>And if you do know that it is more dangerous and still ride it, then you believe the risk is not worth considering. OR maybe you believe that a TT/Tri bike and associated position is equally responsive as a road bike with its associated position? If that is what you believe that’s fine. I think it’s wrong and here’s why.<<

Once again thank you for asking the question and answering based upon your predisposed assumptions. You really are good. Maybe you should just post to yourself and you will tell yourself exactly what you wish to hear. Initially you told me I ride in the aerobars in pacelines. I told you I don't in pacelines. Now since you see that I don't, I can't ride on the bars either and still be safe. Not true. What about the roadies that ride road bikes with clip-ons on occasion in pacelines? There are other factors that come into the equation when considering riding safely with groups pacelines/other, tri/road. You can have the proper bike but no skill and wipe folks out easily. Conversely I've seen riders on the rickitiest of steeds handle with ease because of knowing when, and how.

>>Typically on TT or Tri position the goal is to try and maintain a 90 degree hip angle. Once the angle is smaller than 90 degrees, most riders lose comfort. In the most basic form the TT/Tri bike is designed to maintain good body angles for power and comfort, and provide an aero position. The best way to get more aero AND maintain good body angles is to lower the rider and roll their pelvis forward. But if you roll someone forward you need to support them differently than if they are on a road bike. On a road bike your torso is mainly supported by your abdominal muscles, back muscles, your arms and a little bit by your butt. On a TT/Tri bike almost all of your torso support is provided by your skeleton (arms) which most fitters attempt to position around 90 degrees to horizontal, in conjunction with the aerobars. So if you are in or out of the bars it doesn’t matter, due to geometry and fit, more weight is going to be on the bars. You can’t think that since you are out of the aerobars therefore the entire geometry of your bike changes. This will effect how the bike will handle. TT/Tri bikes will also have a slacker head tube angle, lower bottom bracket, shorter chainstays, and a slightly longer fork rake. All of these things along with your bike fit are designed into a TT/Tri bike in order to be more comfortable and stable while in the aero position. A properly fit and built TT/Tri bike, will be very stable and comfortable while in the aerobars, AND it will minimize aerodynamic drag. However, a TT/Tri geometry frame will not handle quickly or have the cornering clearance of a road frame, which makes it more dangerous in a group ride (especially criterium) or hard cornering situations. <<

This was revolutionary, oh say when the folks that created TT bikes thought of it. I read many more informative passages before making a purchase. Thanks Slowman. You neglected to speak of the angle that the rider is riding 78 as opposed to 73 for a typical road bike or if on the right bike can either be achieved and how said seat angle impacts handling. You have made many assumptions without asking. As for cornering (regardless if the 2 bikes handle differently) you CAN corner safely on a TT bike. Your comments don't prove otherwise and regardless of what you think, my skills and common sense say different. Yes, tri-bikes are made to go fast and do well going straight, but they are not designed at the expense of completely sacrificing handling making them unsafe and as dangerous as you claim.

>>You can't have everything, and you don't.<<

Huh, only you know what you meant by that one, I won't assume. My interest lies in becoming a stronger cyclist, eventually racing and having fun in doing so. That why I choose to mix it up a bit. I don't see anything wrong with that. I won't enter my bike in a crit, tri's only. I will keep riding what I have until I can get a road bike. Period

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

Nope. I don't take my bike everywhere. ;-) I do just fine thanks.

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

A lot of posts and i skiped over most,i am a ROADIE my name is Randall Roadies can be asses, hell there is a group i am not welcome to race with,i have about 20 years of riding under my belt and can ride/race with the best of them,i do ride my TT bike on group rides,just spent the last six weeks riding nothing but the TT bike, i never have anyone say anything about it,but i ride with the group taking pulls instead of sitting at the front hammering for a long time. I also hook up with some tri guys when i can,and we have a blast,the tri guys i know from doing TTs the roadies really do not show up to much for the TTs.

Just show up, ride and prove to them you are not going to cause a wreak,be nice and if there still asses go ride elsewhere, I admit when someone shows up i do not know i stay clear till i see they are not going to get me killed,,, You do realise that the people you ride with can get you killed? Years ago we had a MTB rider start coming to our road rides, three months later three people had broken collarbones and another went to the hosiptal with a punchered lung,Maybe just maybe this is why us roadies are a little worried about who shows up to a ride.

I kinda agree with Fleck here. I have had the unfortunate experience of bearing the wrath of roadies- but that is the exception, not the norm. If I am going to ride with roadies I realize that I am sort of on their "turf" so to speak, and as such, I chill and try to follow their routine and idiosyncracies. Never in my aerobars in the pack, try to blend in etc. I ride with a regular group of roadies on Sunday and we have a great mix- but it I know it is "their" ride so I pretty much stick to their rules.

"I ride with a regular group of roadies on Sunday and we have a great mix- but it I know it is "their" ride so I pretty much stick to their rules."

That's it.

Actually, it's been my experience the best sort of group for triathletes to ride in, for a triathletes needs, is a smaller group of I would say, maximum 5 - 6 people that are of similar fitness. This way, in one ride you can do it all:

1. Use the group dynamics and drafting to set a high pace and tempo for extended periods of time and cover more ground than you would on your own

2. Stronger riders can take long pulls on the front and the slightly weaker people can sit in and no one really cares

3. Ride on your own for a bit to get the feel of pushing/pacing yourself on your own when off the back or off the front.

4. Not have to worry about the politics and dyanamics of a larger group.

It's the type of riding dynamics that you very often see in long, small group break-aways in professional bike road races.

Many of my best, final IM prep rides were like this: 2 - 5 of us all wanting/willing to keep the pace up( 30km/h or more) for 16o K, with minimal stops.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I do not own a non tri bike and it ain't gonna be in the budget any time soon. When I first got my tri bike, a cervelo eyre tri, a friend who was just getting into cycling invited me for a ride. It was with 8 people all roadies. I held my own and had fun. These were not hard core roadies and they asked a lot of questions about the bike that I could not answer. They only one I could answer was, "do you ride your bike with that set up all the time?", since it was my second ride ever on the bike I said yep every ride :-).

My roadie friend got much better and invited me to more rides. During one of my first hard core roadie rides a guy who was one of the stronger riders came up to me as I was dropping back after a pull and then dropped on my aero bars, and just said in a joking, but serious tone, you are gonna have to pay everyone on the ride $20 every time you get down on the aero bars. I was still in my first year of cycling so I heeded his warning. About 30 minutes later we were side by side again, he thanks for me staying off the aero bars and explains he was not trying to be a dick just wanted to be sure I was being safe.

So to me like many things its in the approach, he got his message across and was overall nice about it. I also had to recognize that I was in the "roadie zone" and if I wanted the benefit of training with these guys I would have to play by their rules. I also thinks it helps your credibality with the group to get invited by someone who is respected by the group which adds to your credablity. Alternatively, If you do not get invited I think it would be smart to sit back on the first few rides and demonstrate you can hangle the pace the group of riders are settig and demonstrate decent handling skills to have the other riders become more comfortable with your riding.

Now Ironically, I was riding with the same velo club 2-3 years later in a pace line of about 20 roadies and me the lone tri-geek. Roadie behind me in the pace line decides to take his vest off and pulls to the left out of the pace line. Sure enough he looses control of his bike and as the line was slowing to approach the intersection, freaken guy slams into me, cracks my frame, shreds my rear derailure and hed jet rear wheel. (training wheel was being repaired at the time), I later find out the dam guy is nick named "danger boy".

So I may be one of the few tri-geeks that was crashed into by a roadie.

So, yeah there are pin head roadies, tri-heads, as well as triathletes & roadies who do dumb shit things on a bike that endanger others.

Peace,

RF

I started road riding got into tris pretty quickly - after riding solo and in small groups of tri guys for a while, went back and did a few group roadie style rides and they scared the shit out of me.

I was all psyched last time cuzz this cute chick had a p3 yah man...

until her bottle launcher fired one off right in front of me.

I ride my lemond on group rides period end of story.

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_______________________________________________________________

"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

If your only bike is a tri bike, don't expect to be greeted at roadie rides with cheerful encouragement. If you are wanting roadies to stop questioning your equipment, ride equipment which is appropriate for a group ride. I think it is smart that you don't get all aero in a group. The fact that you show up on a TT rig at a group ride is a legitimate cause for concern among road riders.

It isn't going to stop being an issue. Just because you feel confident in your bike handling doesn't mean anybody else trusts your judgment. showing up on your TT rig is prima facie questionable judgment.

You KNOW it is an issue. If you insist on showing up on the TT rig, you will always be questioned. If you don't want to hear it, don't show. At this point it sounds more like you are trying to pick fights

In my area I do this Sunday morning ride where different groups come together and do a varied terrain course in a mad 56km all out informal race dash where riders basically test each other. Usually about 50 riders or so will join. One morning I had my P2K equiped with standard drops but had those hoop type Profile clip on tri bars. The brakes and gear shifters are standard fit on the standard drop bars.

A couple of aggressive elite type roadies came up to me and started hassling about the clip ons. I told them that I don't take aero position when there are riders in front of me cuz that's just common sense. I asked them if they've ever heard of tri bars being the cause of an actual accident they could cite. And I mentioned that my clip ons were the hoop type so anticipate as they might that hoop bar would very unlikely penetrate their skinny arses.

Told them to fuck-off and hassle some others with tri bars who were around unless they wanted to take it a step further. Frikkin skinny bike riders think they're super human juz cuz they got some riding prowess but don't realize that cycling prowess doesn't translate into prevent my head from getting smacked in prowess. In my area there's this group of Italian Bike owners who compete regularly in the roadie scene who think they're a cut above the rest and really get uptight especially if you out pace them. They got this bad habit of yelling at others in a group ride for the the slightest imagined infractions.Them two assholes were from this particular group. The best thing is to train to a level of fitness to leave these A-holes trailing and look at their dumb faces when they come in at the finish later than you.

Frikkin skinny bike riders think they're super human juz cuz they got some riding prowess but don't realize that cycling prowess doesn't translate into prevent my head from getting smacked in prowess.
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That's hilarious! I like roadies. In fact, I think that as a reward for racing well last weekend I'm going to ride with the roadies this weekend. All my rides for the past few months have had very specific goals leading up to the race, so this time I'm just gonna roll. Maybe get my legs ripped off by a couple of the stronger ones, but hey - it's all in good fun.

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Yes.

It is very important to win the training ride.

Every ride is a race. Bring your fastest stuff and your shittiest attitude. Bust into that double paceline and show everybody up.

I have a really crazy idea. Train alone.

If your idea of a group ride is trying to drop everybody, trying to "attack the hills," and trying to show everybody "who's boss" you are an asshole. Roadie, Tri dork or what ever.

Group rides are (at least I thought) groups riding together. If you have to hammer all the time, you really don't need a group. Just get your heart rate monitor, and your power tap and go give it hell. Then you can come home, down load your work out and box the one eyed contender while you chart your progress.

Every group has its idiots. Some groups are entirely idiots. Joining a group of idiots makes you one of the idiots. The thing is, you don't have to join a group. Or you can make your own group.



The Sunday morning group I ride with has some very fast riders. However, the group finishes together. No one is left behind. It is really easy to form a group like this. Here is how you do it:

Step 1) Get in touch with people you like to ride with.

step 2) arrange to ride with them

step 3) go ride

Isn't that easy?

Here is what you do when you think a group of people are idiots and you don't want to ride with them:

Step 1) don't ride with them.

Step 2) repeat step 1

easy, huh? The great thing about these two processes is that they can be used no matter where you live.

If things don't go to your liking, you can always revisit these processes. make a new group. make different groups. Mix and match! Sort of like the garanimals and underoos your mom is still buying you. (which explains the batman ballhanger)

"Batman Ballhanger and jog-bra"....now that's funny. I particularily love my padded cycling shorts which drastically exhaggerate my HUGE BULGE. Not to mention the skin-tight Team Telekom jersey loaned to me by Jan himself. Can't we all get along dammit!

Train by yourself....I do!



<disclaimer> I am a triathlete who can't swim <disclaimer>

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RunFAR Racing Services
http://www.Run-far.com
Team Cambridge
Hilltop Bicycle Repair

The best advise is "DO NOT RIDE WITH ROADIES" they never complain , and never try to swim with you or run with you, if they want to run, they go to the track and run, why don't you create a tri group ride, and do not go through so many problems with roadies.

Ummm...okay. Whatever you say.

Do not be a smart ass, roadies never try to hook up with us, if you go to a roadie group you have to ride under their rules, don't you think? that is what i meant.

I would agree with that. But stating categorically that me riding my tri bike and that I can't handle it as well as a roadie is utter BS. I have seen plenty of Pro's wipe out for no apparent reason. Does that make them bad riders or bad at handling their bike....nope.
Roadies shouldn't use blanket assumptions and statements as triathletes can't handle a bike well, just like I shouldn't say things like all Roadies are a$$ holes. I especially wouldn't come on a tri-related board and state things like that. What do you expect us triathletes to do? Defend ourselves and get snippy...anyone would.

"Then you can come home, down load your work out and box the one eyed contender while you chart your progress."

Never heard that one before, I like it.

These discussions always really amuse me. In my former athletic life I was a rower. For some strange reason I never fully understood lightweight rowers and heavyweight rowers (as a broad, sweeping generalization) cannot get along to save their lives, like triathletes and roadies.

We’re out there doing the same thing (more or less). Lets be friends and focus our anger on the poop-head mouth breathing $#!+ head drivers that throw beer cans at us and think that it’s funny to lay on the horn just to watch us jump.

I’m going to dispute the claim that triathletes are more fun at parties. Anyone disagreeing with me and in the Seattle area is welcome to put their money where their mouth is in order to prove me wrong. On the other hand tri-girls (women) are way hotter than roadie girls. As a roadie I find this very upsetting.

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Running is so much easier on a bicycle...

"It is very important to win the training ride. "



You have no idea.

Hey Manonfire

You say in your profile that your from “the Bay baby” are you talking the SF Bay area? I lived up in the North Bay for 7 years and is were I picked up the bad habit of Cycling. And I must say they have some very Roadie Roadie. Now I’m a roadie at heart and it’s were I started but I have a Mtb’ers soil. I was doing the NorCal District TT two weeks back and they are all a very serious bunch! I just love messing with them, say’n hi how ya do’n and most of them just looked at me like “who are you?” funny stuff.

So don’t worry too much about the people that give you sh*t just go ride and have fun! The “Bad” roadie just need to get muddy more often!

Ridehard!

Dan…

Let's see, I show up and some other person's group ride and expect them to ride the way I want them to? Pretty arogant isn't that?

 accidents happens to veteran or a new guy , a lot of us have 20 or so years riding, so we think that we can go around, what worries the roadies is what they don't know, and all of the bike raiding community wants is safe rides and if you sense insecurity in some thing is better to talk in advance.

Yes it is, i think that everybody should ride the way they wants, but if you arrive and want to ride in a organized group and want to do things your way and that way is not accepted by them, then what do you suggest?

It is what i meant, we want to go to their party and don't let them cry if they want to.

got it, read it wrong.

What a jackass discussion...I nominate this entire thread for JACKASS OF THE WEEK.

Do not be a smart ass, roadies never try to hook up with us, if you go to a roadie group you have to ride under their rules, don't you think? that is what i meant.

Sorry, smartass is my nature. I agree that if you do end up hooking up with roadies, whether by choice (very rarely for me) or by chance on the open road (relatively common) one should make a habit of essentially staying out of the way...unless you know them or know what it is they are trying to accomplish. Just like us, most folks have a particular thing they are trying to achieve with a particular workout or a particular moment in a workout, and anyone can f*** that up without really trying.

Just about all that I have met up with are pretty cool---and just like we triathletes there are the percentage share of assholes as well.

My original point was that in running or swimming you typically don't meet up with the "attitude", but as has been pointed out there are some legit reasons for an attitude on the bike as opposed to the running trails or swimming lanes.

>>What a jackass discussion...I nominate this entire thread for JACKASS OF THE WEEK.<<

Your such a classy dude. Unfortunately I've seen far worst here that consistently go un-nominated. Why did you leave the asterisks off anyway? Is that PC or something?

""What now? Let me tell you "what now?" I'm gonna call a couple a hard, pipe-hittin' n****rs to go to work on the homes here, with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.""

That discussion was much more on-topic for your liking.

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

Hey in general I get along fine with Roadies to, in fact I consider myself one too since I compete Road Racing sometimes. In fact I get alonf fine with almost anyone who wants to get along.

But them self appointed elite types ... sometimes a group forms and then they get a kind of exclusive superiority complex thingy. I guess it's just a part of human nature. It's all fine with me as long as they keep thier stupid opinions and aggressive comments to themselves. Don't find little reasons to validate themselves at others expense. Being in thier little group ain't gonna save them if they try shit!

Yeah most Roadies are good guys. But once in awhile you get these little groups forming by individuals who don't have the balls to stand on thier own and then as a groupie try and validate themselves by hassling others. This group I refer too even all ride the same Italian brand of bike, use the same expensive brand shoes and and use the same flashing lights etc. Most in the group compete and have an attitude problem to newer riders and to people with less expensive gear and to people using Tri bikes.

Bunch of wankers who deserve to get fucked back!.

Whether Tri or Roadies we should all be friendly and just enjoy what we're doing. I got no time for self appointed elitists.

I do not condone violence , but guys with arms like I had when I was seven , would have been bitch-slapped pretty hard.........and thanked me afterwards !

Have no problem with :roadies , runners , swimmers , drivers , etc. Additionally , can someone please enlighten me as to what "thrill" I am missing by riding solo ?

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

Et tu LC? haha

Although many of the comments are made in jest when I 1st head out with a new group, it's a rare few that have the rudeness that goes with them. Very seldom but memorable. For the most part I have zero issues, and if it comes up I usually see the humor in the situation and take it lightly. As I said once I ride with them or chat with folks that have a comment or 2, everything is copasetic. Sometimes the comments are made by folks that I am not riding with. For example if I'm out on a solo and make a stop in an area where there are other riders, and I'm minding my own business. That's what I don't get. In the past when I was on my old clunker of a road bike before it was put to sleep, I never heard these things. This wasn't meant to offend but I understand that many are passionate about the subject. I don't introduce myself as a triathlete or a roadie (not that there's anything wrong with that) I just go out and ride and do what I do. Done.

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

canuck,

If you're training for foundation stamina spinning the mileage or improving specifically in certain areas with intervals like hill climbs, sprints or ability to push sustained speed in anaerobic threshold then training alone is best and is the best way to improve.

If you want to be a good roadie then you'll need to take all that benefit from training sometimes and ride in fast groups. Only then can you get used to how to manouvre within a group and how to draft, pull etc and to apply your strengths you've buiklt to good tactics.

The fun in a group is that you're challenging with other riders matching pace on different terrain. Also in a group you will get the thrill of much higher speeds whilst pacing and challenging. Even as a Tri person riding in groups adds a different and very enjoyable imension to cycling and putting yourself against the roadies will help improve your cycling. Also you will meet people who are cool who share the same interests and make friends in the process.

It's all very enjoyable so long as you don't meet up with those occassional dickheads. Basically I avoid dickhead group organized rides cuz there are many others to choose from and the Sunday rides we have where it's free for all, good challenging bunch fast ride, me or anyone else has every right to participate and dickheads got every right to keep thier mouths shut unless they're willing to back it up.

Ride be happy, friendly competition, friendly to all good riders and newbies, expensive bike and cheapo bike owners alike and keep the egos in check n the attitude to oneself, I reckon is best. The sport will be better off for it.

KANGAROO

Your last paragraph is my thoughts exactly. I live and train, in a city. Hence , dealing with traffic and limited " countryside" I find the ability to go on these rides more tedious than beneficial.

Additionally :

I normally ride with a goal and hr parameters to follow.

I don't see how this can fit in to a group ride.

The only benefits I can really see are some that you have stated: - the ability to ride in group dynamic , matching pace in different terrain , spending time with people of similiar interests. As far as benefits myself , I probably should have stated that at present , my sole purpose of cycling is for completion of the cycling leg of IM and personal enjoyment.

Unfortunately , with my full- time job , family and training , social and non-specific rides are entirely out of the question.

Thanks for your response though , I should have emphasized my position more clearly.

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

You missed the point, manonfire. This puffy-chested rant of a thread is doing NOTHING to unify people. I object to that. Look, there are JACKASS roadies and there are JACKASS triathletes. Neither one are very much fun to be around. I absolutely object to the "holier-than-thou" attitudes expressed in some of the posts in this thread.

My "jackass" comment had NOTHING to do with ON/OFF topic status of the thread. As for the asterisks...that is the way the MOVIE QUOTE was written on the site I grabbed it from. I have no PC sensitivities. Its a MOVIE QUOTE on a MOVIE QUOTE thread, for cryin' out loud. Get over yourself.

Yeah cannuck8,

I get what you're saying. Not enough time and specific ride training etc. But for me when not training for a specific TT then group rides if the other riders are fast, is a good ride effort which breaks up the monotonyand is a different challenge. Besides being physically tired one can get mentally burnt out as well.

What if I trully believe that I am holier than thou art. :) I would never exclude anyone from anything just because there is a chance I may get hurt, or they don't have the correct equipment, or someone isn't as good as me. If that would have been the case, more often than not I would have been playing BY myself (not with myself ;) ) for most of my youth and teenage years. I can honestly say, the only sport I have ever seen this type of attitude in is cycling. To me that is baffling. I can get just as hurt playing hockey with a bunch of novices as you can riding with novices. Include everyone and lose the attitudes. (Not you in particular Brian, I am saying generally).

Unfortunately it is you that have missed the point. It wasn't puffy-chested at all on my behalf. I actually laugh at much of what was said to me while out and riding. I find it humorous regardless of the intent of some of the comments that I have beenmade in the past. I know that one bad apple doesn't ruin the bunch. Never made that generalization. Everyone has a butthole in them. You missed an opportunity to write something that articulates your sentiment more than just trolling and popping in with a Jackass comment. Don't try to explain yourself now. Don't preach unity when you're labeling folks jackasses. You may object and you are truly entitled to do so but others are entitled to their own opinions as well. Agree or not. It's through discussion that people see the other side of the equation, hopefully. This wasn't an attempt to bring a divide and if this thread has done so then folks are really in bad shape. If it bothers you or you just have something to contribute then post, if it pains you don't read. "Get over myself". Dude whatever. As I said I have seen far worst on this forum that may warrant that type of comment. You may be better served to direct your attention there.

Ving Rhames tied up in the basement. I have seen Pulp Fiction several times.

Peace

"When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane." (~Steven Wright)

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"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."