I saw two guys with snorkels and dive masks come out of water................are these allowed I wasn't sure?

sean

They could've just worn a wetsuit.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I heard the same stuff went on last year which is why no compression socks or sleeves were allowed during the swim. Why the F would you sign up for a nonwetsuit IM. Just do Florida or Arizona. It's the same type course.

second on the snorkel...ive seen someone use snorkel at ITU..... what is the result?

Snorkel is legal I thought with WTC races.

Wouldn't you at least paint it a different color?

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Snorkel is not legal.

Snorkels ARE legal in USAT-sanction races.

---

Habitual line stepper.

My first thought was why that person did not paint it black......

Not in ironman races. Who cares about USAT? Read the rules. Every race has specific rules. In most races: snorkel is not legal.

Yep, snorkels are legal in USAT stuff. Not sure about ITU AG.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Rules IM Texas:

SWIM COURSE RULES AND INSTRUCTIONS
• Athletes must wear cap provided by race.
• No fins, gloves, paddles, or flotation devices of any kind are
allowed.
• No Aqua socks (neoprene booties) unless the
water temperature is 65.0 degrees Fahrenheit or
colder.
• Compression wear may not be worn DURING nonwetsuit swims, but may be worn upon completion of
the swim.
• Swim goggles or facemasks may be worn.
• No individual paddlers or escorts allowed. The
course will be adequately patrolled by boats, canoes
and paddleboards.
• Any assistance required during the swim will result
in disqualification if forward progress was made.
Athletes are permitted to use kayaks and boats as
aid, as long as forward progress is not made. Special provisions are made for Physically Challenged
(PC) athletes. Course officials and medical personnel reserve the right to remove athletes from the
course if determined medically necessary

No mention about snorkels. In IM Cozumel and IM Brazil it´s forbidden.

How would you even sneak that into the water without anyone noticing?

Is the water there really dark?

Premeditated cheating is especially sad.

thats what im wondering.

why would a person sign up for an IM and not have the confidence to finish the 2.4 mi swim without that device? stay classy 'ironmen'

I've always wondered what would stop someone from taping a modified foam chestplate of sorts under their wetsuit for extra flotation. Aside from ethics and sportsmanship I mean.

can you say Kona spot. I keep hearing all the time from folks that some cheat to get in.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Let's see, you say that it's not legal in Ironman races, you pull out a quote from the IMTX athletes guide that makes no mentions of it and you are on your high horse to correct folks?

I've done 3 WTC Ironman 140.6 races, and two of those they mentioned during the athletes briefing that it was legal. I'm not sure about the third since I didn't attend the meeting.

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

I suspect he wasn't worried about completing the distance. More likely it was to improve his swim split.

"Is that a pull buoy in your shorts or are you just happy to see me?"

OMG!!! Everyone! get your torches and pitchforks!

Damn. But without the medals, the video and the marathon the day after it just doesn't have that FinMan panache.

Anyone have any idea what the reshaping is all about. They obviously took the time to make it look like that for a reason.

Saw one today at Florida and have seen them at other WTC races. Never talked to the people wearing them. The drag and fact that you still have to raise your head to sight must outweigh any benefit.

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__________________________________________________

Looking for a place to swim? check out http://swimradar.com
Mountain Bike and Adventure Guiding - http://fivestaradventure.com

To better conceal it, duh. A PB sticks up like a sore thumb. Trim off the top and it's less obtrusive.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Unless he shoved it up his ass I don't see it being easily concealed even with the trim. Do you?

A guy at the pool I use uses a snorkel for iron distance racing, he had a neck injury and can't comfortably rotate to breathe for that long of a race.

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______________________________________________

In the US, snorkels are legal in USAT sanctioned races, including Ironman brand races.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I'm simply trying to present a reason as to why the PB would be altered. I still think my reasoning is valid. You can't hide it entirely, but it is far less obvious if it remains somewhat below the water.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

As I understand it, the people who use them have neck issues that prevent them from turning to take breaths without pain. I don't think people use them to get an advantage, otherwise they'd be outright illegal.

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

I've got $20 says this person probably didn't podium.

Snorkels are almost always legal (unless specifically banned) and there really is no speed to be gain from using one.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Yeah, I agree. I don;t see this low rent form of cheating where getting caught is at a rather high probability being amongst the AG ranks trying for a Kona slot. This was someone just trying to finish. The guys who are so desperate to qualify wouldn't resort to this nonsense, they would just get drugs and be done with it.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

While it's sad - I agree.

For someone who has the desire and means to cheat to chase a kona spot - this is decidely amateur. We're talking little league here.

I'm fairly impressed with his ability not to get caught.

My guess is that the perp put the thing in the front of his one piece tri-suit around his belly. When the race started, he probably moved it down to his hips for floatation assistance.

I sure hope someone has a picture from the start a finds the guy with the funny gut.

---

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

Yeah, that's the only way to provide any advantage. And a 1:10 swim isn't really top caliber.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

OP collected this thing?

But it looks to me like they trimmed off the sides not the top. Or maybe I just don't know how you use a PB

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

I believe they were illegal for WTC races for the brief time when WTC and USAT were having their little spat...

Not the top? Are you serious? There is NO top. Turn it over.

How the heck did he even get this into the water crossing the mat? Or is there somewhere on shore he could pick it up from after the timing mat, before the start line?

They stuffed it in the swimming trunk?

I think everybody in that swim could take some notes from the guy with the fastest amateur swim. Dude caught and passed most of the pro's. Such an unbelievably efficient stroke! No pull buoy, no wetsuit, 2 beat(if that) kick, and doing it right getting a very efficient pull.

Sad to see people pushing the limit with things of this nature. But after watching the start and seeing people floating on their back less than 100m into the swim, I can't say that I'm surprised to see people trying to sneak these things in.

Here's a photo from the start.. Can you find the pull buoy?



jake

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Get outside!

Not sure if its on the list but itu has a blanket rule that says in the abcence of a specific rule for swimming fina rules apply and they are banned by fina

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Let me be the first to point out the obvious: if that pen was found floating next to the pull buoy, the perps fingerprints are probably all over that pen.

Crime solved

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

The Legend of Buoy Boy

---

Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

The perp should be easy to find...someone who owns a Buoy Knife

---

Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

There's a Star Wars marathon on TV and you are on Slowtwitch!?

I did not collect it and it is not in my possession. The photos were posted on a Facebook discussion thread by locals in the Woodlands area.

---

__________________________________________________
STRIKE FORCE RACING
QR Cd.01, HED 3, Rudy Project, Cobb Saddles, DeSoto

I actually know the guy who did this...and he feels terrible...in fact he shed a Tyr

---

Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

The Legend of Buoy Boy

The Mystery of Loch Ness IM Texas.

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Use your words to describe the part that was cut from the pb.

Woodlands Woody

---

Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

My grandfather told me the cheaters were coming with their pull buoys.

This is just the beginning......

There's just one pull buoy cheater we know of.......and just look at the devastation. Next thing you know there are 100, 1000, 100,000, one million or more. Think of the damage they could do.......

This is a dangerous new species for sure. More stealth than even Finman himself.

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Dev, there were a couple spots where you could hide contraband. There were a dozen or more people hanging onto the dock, it could have been hidden under the edge of the dock the day before.
I also noted at one point it looked like the start buoy was getting pulled down by folks hanging onto it. I'm all for an in water start but they were asking age groupers to get in the water 20 minutes beforehand (6:40 am). For some that's not an issue but there was reluctance from a great many that just didn't want to tread water that long without a wetsuit.

I wish they'd number swim caps. Having no way to clearly identify swimmers (via photo or eye witnesses) makes rules enforcement impossible.

Overall IMTX was really well organized and the courses were great.

I am currently developing a full body scanner that detects flotation devices and other swimming contraband. If you're hiding water wings in the crack of your ass, even under a 10mm wetsuit my machine will find them.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

mojozenmaster wrote:

I am currently developing a full body scanner that detects flotation devices and other swimming contraband. If you're hiding water wings in the crack of your ass, even under a 10mm wetsuit my machine will find them.

Just get ready for.. thats not water wings .. I had Mexican for breakfast. ..

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

mojozenmaster wrote:

I am currently developing a full body scanner that detects flotation devices and other swimming contraband. If you're hiding water wings in the crack of your ass, even under a 10mm wetsuit my machine will find them.

As long as we have the legal right to opt in lieu of a groping.

I was wondering how this might be used to cheat and why the modifications.

If you wore baggy swim trunks over top of your spandex tri shorts could you slide this up one leg of the baggy shorts? the cut off side would go against the fabric of the shorts.

increased drag would likely nullify the advantage of the floatation though.

They've been numbered at every other IM that I've done (not 70.3's though), including IMTX last year. They weren't numbered this year because the caps apparently came in late and were not available at packet pickup. I didn't get mine until I was at the transition area early Saturday morning before the race.

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------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007

There is one DQ listed in the official results and the swim time was 1:11:xx.

Perhaps that was the reason?

I can't believe you STers are actually in arms over the PB.

If you can swim a 1:10 IM swim, I guarantee you are not needing a PB. It's not fast, but it's not like you're going to miss the cutoff.

If someone does want to 'cheat' with a PB, that's their loss. I seriously doubt a KQ bound aspirant is going to be rockin' a secret PB.

Cheating is totally lame, but being up in arms over something this trivial is nearly equally lame.

The PB has quite the water line on it. Looks like it was in the water a lot longer than a couple hours. Was it even involved in a 'crime' yesterday?

It could have been concealed by a woman in her top. Weird looking boobs, but easier than a guy stuffing it in his speedo...

Yes, either that water was extremely dirty or the pull buoy had been floating in water for some time either on this or another occasion. How far was the swim exit from the start? Is it possible that someone used it prior to the race to help conserve energy treading water? If so I'd say not only is it probably not against the rules, it's actually a pretty good idea! The cut-off section is confusing though. I can see no reason for it other than concealment on entry into the water which would suggest that if it was used prior to or during the event whoever did so thought it was illegal, even if it wasn't.

I got my swim cap on Wednesday no issues. To everyone out there who says 1:10 isn't close to being someone who could qualify think again. In my age group 9:40 something was the last spot. If you can hammer the bike and run you may need a little extra help in the swim. Hence the cheating. My guess it was shoved into a one piece suit at the belly level get into the water then at the start put it on ur back. Hence the water line or inside the leg inside the short to allow for kicking till. Bet doing it this way could save 5-10 min. If anyone is curious no I was not the culprit nor do I know him or her. I swam a 1:21. I suck at OWS. Hahah

---

Kirk Noyes

Downtubes are for Dinosaurs

It could have been concealed by a woman in her top. Weird looking boobs,

Or by a huge load of yesterdays Mexican Seafood brunch in davhamms shorts. Either way, the crack detectives (no pun intended) of Slowtwitch will figure this one out within the next 96 hours or less. For sure!!

.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

I wonder if it was even used. Could be someone was worried about being able to finish the swim if wetsuits were banned so he/she hid the pull buoy somewhere to use if necessarily. When the race confirmed as wetsuit optional, he/she did not use it.

I cannot figure out any other reason. If you were worried about finishing, why not wear a wetsuit? If you were going for a Kona spot, I cannot believe he/she would need a pull buoy or that it would provide that much of an advantage.

Just weird.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

but putting a pull buoy up there wouldn't speed you up. It would likely slow you down as it would drive your hips down...more drag. Not to mention the actual buoy

Whole idea gives me sadface. My first IM will be Zurich next year and I can't imagine feeling the same sense of achievement I'll feel after it if I cheated like that. What's the point??! You'd just get your ass handed to you even more brutally if you did con your way to Kona!!

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----------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

I can't believe you STers are actually in arms over the PB.

If you can swim a 1:10 IM swim, I guarantee you are not needing a PB. It's not fast, but it's not like you're going to miss the cutoff.

If someone does want to 'cheat' with a PB, that's their loss. I seriously doubt a KQ bound aspirant is going to be rockin' a secret PB.

Cheating is totally lame, but being up in arms over something this trivial is nearly equally lame.

Are you serious? I'm not worked up about this, but cheating isn't the loss of the cheater. The others lose, the ones who followed the rules and get bumped back a position or two by people who cheated.

Basically, you're saying that if a person isn't trying to get to Kona it doesn't matter. Let them use pull buoys, fins, draft, pacers, outside help, etc.. Who cares?

I actually think people shooting for a Kona slot may be more inclined to cheat. Competition is tough and if you're a weak swimmer losing a few minutes in the water could put you out of the running. I qualified for Kona at IMWI 2010 with a 1:12 swim. I felt trained to go about 1:05 which I felt still put me a little behind, but I thought I could make up for it on the bike. I had a bad swim and when I came out of the water and saw 1:12 I immediately felt like Kona was off the table for the day so I just decided to have fun and make the best of it. I fortunately made up time on the bike and got 9th in my AG. There were 8 slots and one rolled down to me. I missed 8th place by about 3 minutes, which was the difference between what I thought I could/should swim and what I actually did swim. My point is that a couple of minutes matter a lot when trying for Kona. I targeted an hour swim in my training but prior to the race none of my swim sets indicated I could swim anything faster than 1:05. It was frustrating and I was afraid the swim would keep me from getting a slot. I personally wouldn't cheat but I can see where the temptation to cheat would come from for a person who wants a Kona slot and is weak in the water but really strong on the bike and/or run.

I'm still just amazed.
Not that someone is cheating, but just that I never in a million years would have thought of doing something like that.

lol.

You people don't even know if this was used in the actual swim.

If we go on that theory that it wasnt actually used in the race, what in the world are they using a modified pull buoy in training for?

ETA: You could be right and it wasnt used in the race, just seems weird to modifiy the pb to that degree.

---

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I honestly don't have an answer for you.

Just seems pretty risky and stupid to try and use one in the race.
*shrug*

Which is why to me it would be *easier* to use an modified pb. I guess I was saying, it seems silly to use a modified pb in training. It's stupid and risky to cheat, but people do it all the time in athletics, because the reward is usually greater than the risk for certain people.

---

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

A few weeks ago we got a post from someone, who knew someone, who does this.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...pull%20buoy;#3929988

Said they did it at St George.

I just find it sad that someone would put this much value into their identity as a AG triathlete that they would cheat. Good lord, it isn't like these people are winning races and making money.

I bet they are a fantastic person outside of triathlon as well. Typically, people that want the easy way out in a sport, do the same in life.

At first I was surprised but I've read way too many stories about folks aiming for AG glory and cheating and doping to get there. Go get some EPO and Test and dope your way to a kona spot, or use a modified PB

and the person who posted it only posted once. hmmmm.

Yup, I'm serious. The seriousness some folks are talking this alleged infractions is unbelievable.

No, I know of and have met, people that have done stupid stuff like this too. I find it a very sad state for someone to be in. How low must one's self-worth and esteem be to cheat at a HOBBY? That is just pathetic.

People get hypothermia WITH wetsuits on for IMAZ. November gets pretty darn cold~!

Is this an observation from a one time ad hoc cheat! ;) (Pink and smiley as I am in no way intimating that you are)

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

C'mon...people are freaking DOPING in the AG's. This is pretty tame in comparison.

Note - I'm not excusing this stoopid little fook. I'm just pointing out the extremes some people are going to in this sport to "succeed" and none if it should come as a surprise.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

He brings up a good question about the modification to its shape. If you planned to put it between your legs you would cut off the top third so only the small, thin neck was visable between your legs from a surface view.

The two cuts on both buoy ends actually make it a better fit for your tri top, chest area. I'm going to throw out that a girl probably used it. Maybe a guy, you never know, but a girl could get away with it easier. I bet she either swam with it in her top or maybe moved it down to her legs after the start.

I was talking more about overall course difficulty. I agree the swim was cold a few years ago.

Ah, apologies. Yeah the swim is pretty simple in a straightforward format. High likelihood of almost no waves~ Thinking it'll be my first IM whenever idecide to sign up for one!

and I am agreeing with you. I am not surprised and I still think they are pathetic.

Were wetsuits allowed at this race?


My questions though:

1) How would you be able to remove anything from your wetsuit while still in the water...swimming?
2) Do we know if this "thing" wasn't just dropped in the water or carried into the water by a volunteer or spectator?
3) For someone to swim faster with a pull buoy...their kick would have to be horrendous and they are concerned about having their low half - sink. Wouldn't a wetsuit help this regard - even without a pull buoy - and then I bring first question - how would you stuff this into their wetsuit?


So I am left with:
1) User most likely had a skin suit instead of a wetsuit. (even though it would be interesting to see how this could have been done)
2) If said user had a skin suit, I would assume they were not an age grouper - because then they could have had a wetsuit (assuming it was legal) and just use that buoyancy to keep them afloat somewhat.
3) Most likely the object (if it even was used by a racer) was just carried into the water and then tucked between their legs. Doubt anyone really saw it or if they did, probably didn't know what to say or who to say it to.

why do it at all if you're going to cheat? This is crazy.

in a race this weekend guy was running off the pavement of the run and cutting corners across grass and dirt, sometimes gaining probably 5-10 seconds each time- he did it at least 6 times I saw. I wonder if he thought he was still running 10k- because my Garmin said 6.21 miles and I never stepped off the pavement. I should have reported it, but I was too happy with my race.

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____________________________________________________
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it--

and my first thought was why anybody would opt to swim with a pull buoy? LOL!

Snorkels are in fact tolerated due to the USAT rules, however they are discouraged and were banned for a couple of years due to different insurance/ sanctioning as stated after your post. Navigation is next to impossible for these athletes and they tend to spend more time correcting their line than most, even the guy with a compass attached to his in Haines City this weekend!
Most federations tell their athletes what is permitted rather than what isn't so this tends to do away with some gray areas, compression wear falls fall under the swim suit regulations of covering body areas and aleviates one more oppurtunity of hiding floatation devices.
Despite the few isolated incidents like this or fin man I believe most people view the swim as a fair playing field, now if they would just carry this ethic onto the bike and run and stop drafting etc......... Oh yes and everyone please stop throwing trash anywhere you see fit, I still can't understand that one!
I'm done, carry on the good work.

Why is this cheating? I cut all the corners I can on a run or bike course. I try to get to the finish line in the shortest, "legal" distance. Unless he jumped over yellow tape the RD put up, why did you say he was cheating?

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You honestly cut corners? If say there is a turn at a stop light right beside an empty parking lot, you'd cut through the parking lot, when the "course" was designed to turn on the road at the stop light?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I was being broad with my comment about cutting corners. He was making a blanket statement on the running section. Biking is different.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I think what he's describing and what you do are completely different... "cutting corners" and taking the best line (in your case i assume) isn't the same thing.

I agree and race directors typically cut all angles when measuring.

He said "running of the pavement" as one comment. That statement w/o data does not say the person cheated.

Then he said "cutting corners across grass and dirt" was cheating. Again, depending on the course, there may be nothing wrong. I have been in many run races where some could accuse me of cheating, while others say that is the race course and you take the shortest line.

I still go back that if the RD did not put up something like yellow tape for some of these corners on the run, you could judge anyway you want.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Maybe (giving someone the benefit of the doubt) it came from a disabled athlete. If you're paraplegic I'm pretty sure you're allowed to attach flotation devices to your legs. Chances are this isn't the case...but you never know.

more detail: it was a paved bike path/ rail trail, he cut across all the grass that was mowed on either side, between the trails, exiting and then entering back onto the trail, between corners (sharp or not- sometimes he'd be on the grass for 20seconds or more) on the trail. That's cutting course, period.

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____________________________________________________
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it--

exactly

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____________________________________________________
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it--

see comment above

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____________________________________________________
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it--

Sorry, your details still do not show to me he "cheated" But again, what does it matter, your opinion on what others do is all that matters, right? :o) Did he take an award away from you? Did you report him to the RD?
Did you speak up at the awards and call him out in public that he was a cheater?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

so you'd cut through someones lawn then if it was on a corner? Or if there was a corner with a 90 degree turn you'd cut through a parking lot that was on the corner? That's exactly what he was doing, except it was on a rail trail.
I hardly think this is a matter of opinion; that is cutting course.
and no I didn't report him; for reasons I both partly divulged in the original post, and others I didn't.
My point was, why do it if you're not going to do it in such a way as to accurately (aka fairly) be able to compare yourself to everyone else. Isn't that the point?

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____________________________________________________
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it--

You were behind this same guy for that long? Why not just pass him and mumble as you go by "No cuts. Cheater".
Seriously though, if someone is within striking distance like that, I either pass them or they pull away from me. (I'm not saying I'm fast. But I like to be faster than people that are near me).

He actually caught me- I was with him for a while, he slowly pulled away- when I'm doing all I can do, how can I do anymore?
But more to the point- I would catch him on the ups, he'd pull away on the downs or corners (wonder why), and then he gased it and I couldn't respond in the last mile or so.
I do always call people out on drafting on the bike though, but I don't mumble it I yell it :)

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____________________________________________________
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it--

I am not trying to say for certain if, in my opinion, he was cheating, I would have to see it.

All I was trying to offer is I have seen enough things happen that are clearly legal, but some strongly feeling was cheating.

And yes, I have seen folks cut the course big time, first hand. And in all the cases, I called them out on it while we were on the course. Since these were top racers doing it, I was pretty shocked. And boy where they embarrassed when I told them cheater basically to their face. I remember this gal who was the leader cutting a trail run big time and calling her out. She said she was sorry and have never done anything like that before, etc. I just said to myself, yea, a cheater once is a cheater always.

So again, you may be 100% correct. But I know folks have said I was cheating just by hugging the inside corners on a run course, which is totally legal. Is it worth the emotion? Nope, but I have yet to be able to ignore it when I see it. :o(

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

ah, I see where you're coming from then, and agree-
Like I said, I also will switch sides of the road, etc. to get the best line- and when I did that yesterday, I had almost perfect race distance 6.21 for 10k

And I also say that I, like you say you have, been called out for what people thought was an illegal move. In a tri once there was a climb of 1 mile at the end. I was a very slow swimmer at the time (as opposed to now being just slow) and got jammed up behind all these folks riding 3-4 wide on the hill, for almost the whole length. I did not hesitate to cross the yellow line at least 3 times, and was yelled at for it once, and reported to the RD by some old grump. The RD asked me what happened, I told him, he said that it wasn't an official rule, that he would have done the same, dismissed the guy, and I got my age group award. So yes, there is some things that maybe grey- but to me this was not.

As is a pull buoy on the swim hahaha

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I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it--

How the hell is that thing going to make me faster in the swim?

Go kick his butt next time and if you see him to it again, call him out. But so many cheat in so many things that is it worth it? Best we can do in life is lead by example. And even then, I know I am not perfect. :o(

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

If he/she was going to such lengths to get an advantage, why was it not painted black as well? Had to laugh though. I am a weak swimmer and have dreamt up more complex methods (air bladders sandwiched between inner wetsuit fabric and neoprene in legs along w/ a CO2 cartridge), but only dreamt. Kind of funny. If I remember right, one of my teammates spotted swim fins washed up on shore at one of the IM races...........

Why go through all that trouble when you can just buy a pair of neoprene shorts (if you need some lift).

I still can't imagine an application requiring the sides of the pb to be cut off like that.

Come on now, let your imagination go wild. Heck, we dont even know that if maybe just fell out of someones car - but, surely someone must have been cheating! ;-)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Yeah, the guy could wear neoprene shorts under a Tyr Torque skinsuit. But if you are stupid enough to cheat, you're probably not smart enough to come up with an optimized method....just look at finman as our shining example. After the entire finman episode I measured 100m times with and without fins and it seemed (at least when I tried fins, that the fins were barely saving 3-5 seconds per 100m......call is 5x38 which is barely 3 minutes....seriously, at finman's speed, was 3 minutes going to make a big diff....why did he just not stuff more neoprene inside his wetsuit if he wanted to save 3 min that badly....these guys are idiots!!!

Dev

Maybe it was a female competitors "time of the month" and all she had handy was a buoy.

dude...

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Um....."Go Team"? !?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Sadness all over news like this. Sadness for all the competitors that finished behind the cheater because they missed their goals (regardless if it is a podium finish or top 50 in their age group) after grueling and diligent training, and their actual results ARE better.
And sad because behavior like this triggers the sportmanship paranoia that leads into cumbersome but unavoidable rules/requirements (some jokingly mentioned some airport security type checkpoint at the start, or the body scan) that makes the organization of events harder and more expensive. It also affects the behavior between competitors as well ( being mindful of keeping an eye open to call the cheater out, and then report it, then the other guys call it whining.... it goes downhill from there....)

Actually this reminds me of the Encyclopedia Brown story, "The case of the big @$$ swimmer", in which Encyclopedia identifies the cheating swimmer as the one with the baggy swimsuit with a larger than normal butt. Seriously, look at the way the thing was cut, it looks like it was made to be placed in the back part of their swimsuit. I'd look in the pre-race photos for someone wearing regular swim trunks instead of Jammers style. That will be your culprit.

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Underground Race Team
http://www.OURtri.org | Twitter | Facebook

Excellent point. I did not think about the rear end. It would go there too and never have to be moved once you started swimming. I would love to see a pic of 50 swimmers about to enter the water and some random 6 foot 155 pound dude with a Sir Mix Alot rear end trying to hide in the group.

Just find out where a marathon is being held the next day and cross check the entry list. If your going to cheat I believe the standard is to run a marathon the next day.

This belongs in The Womens.

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

Cheating? Maybe. But in another direction. I think it was a challenged female that had a flat ass and she was trying to pick up guys at the local tri race and she decided to give herself a hoochie ass. When she noticed all the guys she wanted were actually checking themselves out instead of her, she threw the fake hoochie butt into the water in disgust.

Was J-Lo racing?

Dont they make special underwear for that?


And still, no onw knows if cheating was or was not occurring.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Snorkles and dive masks are allowed, at both IM and 5150 events.