Are the roads closed to traffic/public use?

I will play Devil's Advocate a bit here:

There is a reason that the ride has a max participant limit. Sure, a lot of it has to do with aid stations (assuming there are any) and the supplies necessary to support the riders. So, if you are completely self-sufficient, you are not draining that resource.

However, I would be willing to be there are a host of other reasons for the cap. While all the roads may not be closed and every intersection may not have police, I would be willing to be there is some law enforcement support. In addition, in order to obtain permits from the various municipalities, I would be willing to be the organizers had to place limits on the numbers. Insurance for the event likely relies on numbers as well. Finally, those who actually paid for the ride have a reasonable expectation that they will only be surrounded by so many other riders.

By banditing the ride, you are disrupting those factors (and many more I am likely overlooking). Sure, 1 additional rider likely makes no difference, but, what about 10 or 25 or 50 ...

From an etiquette standpoint, IMO, totally uncool. From a legal standpoint, you are likely placing the event in jeopardy. (Again, not "you" as 1 additional rider, but, where does it stop?)

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Just my opinion.. if you are NOT partaking in ANY support of ANY kind and the roads are fully open to traffic. I see no reason why someone should not follow a course.
That being said.. perhaps doing it the day before or day after, as the roads will still have their markings, would be of better etiquette.

When presented with an option, always take the high road, unless you can care less of your reputation.

That's what I would do. If you are just doing it for the route with no support, it's better not to have a thousand other people swerving around you.

a century ride for charity? or a century ride/race? don't bandit, it's not cool.

if it's just 100 unsupported miles on a bike you are looking for, that is offered um-teen million times throughout the US on a daily basis for free!

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Tim

You could do it in the opposite direction and wave at all of them.

Winner.

If you truly ride 100% self supported, do not set foot into one of the aid stations/start/finish, or use any of the port-o-pottys then I wouldn't have an issue with it. I don't understand doing it, but I wouldn't have an issue with it.

Some rides actually have checkpoints for bracelets to prevent bandits.

I'm planning to do it at the Collingwood Centurion on Sunday! I will be totally self supported though!! I don't see a problem with it seeing as it is on public road/hwy? I pay my taxes and I ride the roads all the time and have a right to do so. The org did not rent the road or close the road for their riders, they only got permission/ permits to hold there event on the roads. I won't be at the start line, take any awards, get an official time, medal or aid, that is what the riders pay for to ride the event! ...I'm just going out on my weekly long ride which happens to be on one of my riding routes! ; )

I happened by luck to do exactly that, only on a 40M stretch. Although I am always polite and wave to each rider I come across, I was really fed up at the end ;-)

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Francois-Xavier Li @FrancoisLi
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." George Bernard Shaw
http://www.swimrunfrance.fr
http://www.worldofswimrun.com

If the roads are completely open to the public, and most likely they are, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as you do not partake of the aid or nutrition stations, etc. And if you really want to get out of the grey area, start well before or after the official start of the event. Really, what's the difference between you and the schlub who might happen to be riding out there that same day and has no knowledge of the century ride? Nothing. Should that person immediately suspend his ride and call it a day? Of course not.

All good points-that's how I was thinking...hmmm....public roads, etc...but then again ride capped.....so I will either do it the day before, or start VERY early Sunday---both says look great weather wise so think I'll opt for Sat. Thanks!

Yes, you would and yes, you are.

As a former century coordinator perhaps I can add some insight. Call your city/county government and tell them that you and 10 friends are planning to go on a bike ride - they'll tell you to have a nice day and don't bother calling them again. Call them and tell them that you and 1000 friends are planning a ride - they'll tell you to bring a $1000 deposit, proof of insurance, and they'll initiate a four month permit process for your event. Repeat that process for every major city/county you travel through. Bottom line is that, especially in a metropolitan area, there can be a lot of work and expense behind the scenes to create an event. I've spent $3-$5/rider and only have a handful of signed documents to show for it.

While I'm on the subject of $$ going out the window, I'm sure you understand that not all motorists are happy to see 1000 riders impeding their progress and littering/relieving themselves on their property. Some of them write letters to the editor and attend city council meetings. To counter this I have to create some goodwill, e.g. positive press, usually through donations to local civic organizations.

If the event fee is $30/rider, I'll spend half of that on food and food delivery, $10 has gone to create the event and $5 is our profit. I understand that a lot of riders don't need or want to pay for food on an organized ride and I've proposed a non-supported rider category for the events I've been involved with. It never received much support but I still believe that some form of discounted fee is the best way to accommodate more experienced riders.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the information. So what do you recommend if you are just out riding your normal route which turns out that day to be included as part of an organized century ride?

I pay my taxes and I ride the roads all the time and have a right to do so.

You can say that about a lot of things that are not courteous like driving the speed limit in the fast lane or taking the entire lane with your bike. Are you going to tell people you are riding with that you are a bandit but you pay taxes? What is your purpose? Why not just ask the ride director if it is OK?

You enjoy your ride. That's different than planning to ride the same route and at the same time as an organized century ride.

I've been a ride marshall for the Coast the Coast (MS in NJ) 170 mile ride for the better part of two decades. Part of what I do, besides fixing flats and stuff, is ensuring that everyone on the ride obeys the road laws, wears a helmet, and other things that are necessary for the charity event to be allowed to ride through towns in the future. The last thing I need is bandits who I can't tell from registered riders.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

My company is helping produce a marathon this weekend. Yesterday I got an email from a person that is planning their long run on the same day and partially on the race route. They wanted to make sure they didn't get in the way of the runners or take away from the expierence for anyone. They even sent me a file of their planned route and offered to run someplace else

I wish all athletes were that considerate.

Next time you are doing a race, do you want a bandit possibly taking away from your day/experience just becasue they can?

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

It's tacky.

Just show up on Saturday or Sunday in Morristown, New Jersey and go straight to the Reg table to see if you can still register. They might take you in, last minute.

If not... then good luck in whatever decision you make.

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The insurance aspect is immaterial. If you need to have insurance coverage, it only applies to your entrants - you're not liable for every Tom, Dick and Harry out on the road that day, unless it's a closed course obviously. I've never done a paid cycling event (casual, not races) that had any law enforcement assistance or any closed roads.

I don't really see the point in banditing the entire course, other than to be a cheapskate. I've bandited parts of long rides, like CTK, because I was doing a ride that day anyway, but didn't want to do the entire course. It's nice to ride with different types of people and chat up new folks, that's half of what makes cycling so enjoyable.

ok WHOA I said I was NOT going to do it-settle down!
just wanted some different points of view--thnx!

TriDave wrote:

Thanks for the information. So what do you recommend if you are just out riding your normal route which turns out that day to be included as part of an organized century ride?

Just ride your route as planned. I'm here in NorCal and my typical routes are part of one century or another almost every weekend (this weekend it's the Echelon Grand Fondo). I just do my thing; not gonna get kicked off "my" roads every time there's an event. Likewise, I don't use their support (porta potties, food stops, etc.).

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I would do it. Roads are open and free - and you pay for them with your taxes. You merely can't get support and you won't be covered by the high-deductible insurance so if you get hurt you can sue them.

I am of the camp that it's cool.

I don't see an issue with it, as long as you're completely self sufficient. Problem is, you can't guarantee that. What if you get into an accident with somebody? What if you just go down solo - and the emergency crews are there to aid/help riders in the event that need rescue. Then you're really not being self sufficient. Lucky, yes. But not independent (unless you decline help). Even then, they're responding to you, when perhaps they should be responding to somebody else that paid to be in the event.

Not attacking - just wondering "what if"....

.

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"I ain't never been nothin' but a winner"
Paul "Bear" Bryant
Roll Tide!!!!

Next time you are doing a race, do you want a bandit possibly taking away from your day/experience just becasue they can?

How does a bandit take away from my day or experience?

x2!

x3. And if they don't take you, ride the course but stay out of peoples way.

I just did an organized century ride. I came across numerous people not involved that were out cycling. No big deal. As long as roads aren't closed and you don't "steal" food then go for it. And for those that wonder what happens if you tangle with another registered cyclist? well the same thing that happens to that cyclist if they get hit with a car or dog or deer. People will offer aid and those covered will not have to pay for it. Those not covered will. Ride responsibly and don't interfere, same as you would any time you came across a group of riders while you are out.

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Ian

Ask the person who had the run in with a bandit at IM Canada, nearly ruined the guys day

or maybe the bandit crashes and takes you out.

or maybe they ride like a D-Bag and the city cancels permits for all future years. It took nearly 15 years for a local town around here to allow tris to take place all because of an incident with one person (and that person was not a participant)

How about if it ws a tri and the bandit just sits on your wheel for the whole ride. I bet that might frustrate a person, maybe lose a bit of focus. maybe you try and speed up to drop them and blow up and have a crap race. maybe you lose out on Kona

Would any of those things take away from your day

I'm not saying the OP would ever do these things but man there are a lot of places to go for a ride, show some respect and ride the course on another day.

Just becasue you can do something, doesn't always mean you should

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

what's the IMC story? I can't imagine anyone trying to bandit an IM? that'd be pretty obvious-what happened?

While I'm not a supporter of bandit riders/racers, have you thought about having a friend of family member volunteer for the day at the event? I put on a local charity ride and we comp riders from organizations who provide volunteer support. At least, you're giving something back.

this is a great idea-even without the comp..

what's the IMC story?

It was a jackass on a bike pretending to be a marshall and yelling at people.

The IMC story is on here someplace, guy out riding the course just being a total tool and screaming at people. Just zero respect

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

Let me follow up on this briefly because it's related to a point I tried to make in my earlier post. An organizer incurs a substantial expense to create an 'event' and all to often, everyone wants a piece of the pie. The emergency services that you referred to are an example of such an expense. I, as an organizer, have to arrange for and/or insure that emergency services are available from all jurisdictions along the route. In many cases this requires additional staffing, (police/fire/ambulance), that I have to pay for. Why? You paid your taxes!! Please feel free to discuss that with emergency services but they'll tell you that they need to provide additional resources that exceed their regular staffing requirements. You might not be able to see them but they're out there and they've been paid for.

Hopefully I'm also providing a resource that you can see. I'll have a fleet of sag vehicles on the course that might be the first to respond to an accident.

Another quick follow up relating to my original post. Perhaps I wasn't able to make my point:

Are the roads open to you? yes
Are the roads open to you and 10 of your friends? yes
Are the roads open to you and 1000 of your friends? NO, they're not and I had to spend a lot of time and a lot of $$ to create an event to open them.

Of all the roads out there, why choose the one the event is on? Probably because it is a good event and you want to be part of the group.
I say just pay the entry fee on ride day, I'm sure there will be a few entrants that will not be there for whatever reason, and they should have some spots open. Have fun, I'm doing the Collingwood Centurion this weekend, looking forward to it!

Nonsense. No insurance > no permits. No permits > no event.

How about you do the self supported ride, but give the entire normal fee to the charity organization. The event director does not want it since you can't register. You are taking nothing from them, but still give 100% to the charity. Normally I would say no for a race, but you really are on open roads. etc. Plus the Charity makes out as they get 100% vs the piddly amount the event manager was going to give them.

IMC guy wasn't a bandit, he was some tool trying to f*** with people. Bandits just ride along for free, they're not trying to grief anyone.

Someone who paid can take you out. On open roads, you "take your chances" every single time you go out.

Banditing a tri is completely different. I can't see anyone condoning that under any condition. It's a race. The OP was asking about a century ride, presumably a casual one. If it's a race with timing and such, I wouldn't do it.

But he wasn't bringing 1000 friends. He wanted to ride the route himself, self supported, on open roads. Again, how does that affect the event being put on. Those riders are getting support, probably an after party, and for that they are covered by insurance. He wouldn't be. Just because he knows there is an event on doesn't mean he can't ride on open roads, with himself, or even a group of 10 friends.


If a bandit actually tries to get involved in the running of the event then no, of course they shouldn't be there.

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Ian

I just do not understand this mentality. I really do not. I gave you the multiple reasons why a bandit interferes with an event. If none of those issues sink in with you ... well ... triathletes are stereotyped as being self-centered for a reason ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Banditing a tri is completely different. I can't see anyone condoning that under any condition. It's a race. The OP was asking about a century ride, presumably a casual one. If it's a race with timing and such, I wouldn't do it.

_____________

I would think the difference is money paid for said event. Whether a race, or "ride", whatever. If you havent paid for it, common courtesy says stay out of it. All this "well the roads are free" is just trying to justify it. By all means if you want to do it, do it and use whatever reason you need to justify doing it. Sometimes though, we really do lack just basic courtesy, it seems.

Edit: If you want to bandit it, than bandit the ride. Just STFU and do it and dont come up with cute justifications for why you did it. Just do it.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

The fact that he knows the event is going on and as a result chooses to ride that route on that day means he sees some value in riding as part of the event. Threrefore, he is taking advantage of the work the promoter has put in and others are paying for without contributing himself. There's a word for taking something of value without permission. I think it's called stealing.

If one guy wants to do it, what stops 2 guys? What about 10 guys? 100 guys?

What happens if the bandit causes an accident that injures participants? Will the event's insurance cover it? (Think careful and remember you are dealing with insurance companies).

What if the bandit litters, which results in the local municipality canceling the race next year?

What if the event was limited to 10 entries? Does 1 more matter?

What happens if word gets out that the bandit did not pay and next year 20% of the field decides not to pay, but do the ride anyway?

Why does the bandit have to ride WITH the ride? Why not ride at a different time?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

No, I'm not self centered triathlete, I'm not good enough! ;) Just going out for my weekly long ride. All I know is there is an event going on the same day as I am riding my weekely long ride, I'm not complaining that 1600 paying riders of the event are riding "my" pubic road ? it's a public road!! the more the merrier! ...I just hope non of them interfear with me! ;) ...And chances are most of the faster field ( 5%) will be ahead of me and the rest will be eating my dust! :)

I don't see how any of those are different than if a registered rider/racer did it.

I see no issue with riding on public roads if you don't take support. Would you have paid if it wasn't full? If so, then give a donation to your local food pantry in the amount entry fee.

No I won't tell anyone anything? I don't need to explain to anyone that I am riding on a public road for any reason? but I will gladly chat with anyone willing and able to keep up my pace! ;) My purpose to ride is for a healthy lifestyle! why do you ride? ....I could ask Graham, but I don't feel I need to ask his permission to ride a public road! :)

We all knew the answer to situations like this by the time we were 5 years old.
It's only in adulthood that it has become such a confounding conundrum for us.

5 year olds would want join in the fun of another childs birthday party even though they were not invited. So I guess you point is enjoy the ride.

I thought you were a lawyer, surely you know the insurance is to cover the event management and city/county employees/elected officials. Insurance cover this group being sued. They are generally not covering peoples injuries after all they signed wavers. Its not like you get hurt and submit a bill. You'd have to sue if you want money and prove negligence or something.

Oh boy ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You can throw what ifs, I can throw what ifs. But guess what it is life, things get in the way sometimes. You deal with it and move on. I doubt this ride, with or without a bandit, won't have its ups and downs.

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Ian

That's a lot of maybes.

I did that once.
There was a LanceStrong century that took a lot of the same roads that my 'normal' route takes. At that time I was doing a 65-mile route most weekends. I'd guess that on that day, 20-25 miles of that loop was part of the organized ride's century route.
It was convenient and all - roads closed to traffic - but I wound up feeling kind of dumb. I didn't feel guilty, just kind of awkward, if that makes sense.
It's something I'd avoid doing in the future. But if I had a route in mind and stumbled upon an organized century or other group ride, I woudln't change my route.

Wow. No wonder being a RD is such a bitch.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Um, no . . . it's not at all anything like that. He's not stealing an event t-shirt, or taking advantage of the fluids and/or nutrition stations. There is no moral conundrum whatsoever. Sorry, but choosing to ride your bike on a road open to traffic is no different than choosing to drive the course in your car. (Probably much safer for those doing the century if you rode the bike though.)

Um, yes ... Damn, WTF is wrong with you people? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing or do you guys really believe the shit that is trickling out of your mouths?

And, your analogy is absolutely ridiculous. You cannot possibly really believe it is the same, do you?

I would think a group of people who claim to love the sport would have more damn respect (and a better moral compass).

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

So your saying it's justified to start at the same place, the same time, ride the same course/distance and with the "group" because it's a "public" road? I guess for me, it's funny how we want to justify the action. Just bandit the damn race, and be done with it. I've never seen the truth have to be "justified" or explained. I guess to me it's kinda silly what we now want to justify. Is common courtesy just not used anymore?

Can someone just not stay clear of an event if they didnt pay for it?

I guess if someone is out riding and they ride up on a "group" event, that's excusable, but to basically knowingly ride in a paid "group" ride when you really have no business being part of, just is a bit silly to me.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

What part of 'the road is not open to 1000 cyclists' don't you understand?

I agree with you in part. (see one of my earlier comments) If you're gonna start at the same time and place, and socialize at the rest stops with the other riders, it may be quite douchy, but it isn't theft. If one's weekly bike ride happens to coincide with a century ride taking place along the same course, oh well.

If the road is open to vehicular traffic then it's open to all, cars and bikes.

Hate to be late to the party. It just seems odd that an adult that is riding the exact same route, on the exact same day, at the exact same time does not see that they are infringing on someones event. No you are probably not doing anything illegal, but at some point in time we all need to look at the "spirit" of our deeds. For as picky of a group as Slowtwitch is about other moralities ie drafting, cheating, taking drugs ect. I think in the spirit of their event, you are cheating, and in some ways it is just wrong.

Back in the old days when races were expensivo at around $10 with a shirt, myself and a dozen or so runners used to "Rogue" runs. (Same as Bandit) That is run the 5k and peel off prior to the finish line. We thought that was pretty fun and funny to see the top two or three finishers slide off the front. Then one day a friend of mine asked me to help at the finish line. Watching places 1-9 peel off and about 1/3 of the field not go thru the chute just seemed wrong as we were trying to raise money for a youth track program. Justify smustify all you like, but you are stealing . At least if you are going to ride the event donate to the cause the amount of the event. I have ridden parts of century rides without paying, but I didn't start with the group or ride their route. Out of my 50-60 mile ride I have been on the same route maybe 20% of the time and were usually ahead or behind a most of the group and didn't ride "with" anyone in their group. I have no problem with that, but starting with the group, riding with the group, and doing the exact same course is just wrong.

Extremely lame and self centered in my opinion.

The tax argument people make is ridiculous. Do you guys also bandit events at public parks too, like family reunions? How about public school/university classes? How about public transit?

There needs to be some respect for social order and rules.

Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.

Yep! when ever I can! Public property is public property! ;) Ususally when I'm at a park when a social event goes on the people always invite me over for food an drink? lol

On that note! I don't think I will be banditing the Centurian after all! ..NOT because of your arguments! Hell no!!and really you don't have an argument! I would do it anyway's because I can, being a public road!! and one of my riding routes! ...but I decided it's to frigging cold to ride tomorrow as the morning temp will be close to freezing! and I'm a whoose when it comes to cold! Good luck to all the other bandits! Do it because it's your public road and right to ride! ;)

1. It's most commonly spelled wuss.

2. I think the term or phrase you were looking for though is Troll

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

    Did you win?

I have 1000 arguments, one for each registered rider that paid to join an event. It's always disappointing when some of you are too dense to understand that however.

Bawahaha, as you are a newbie on ST, I will give you that! lol!...Yea I am a wuss when it come to cold! people who know me know this! lol

Nope! does not apply. LOL

"The insurance aspect is immaterial. If you need to have insurance coverage, it only applies to your entrants - you're not liable for every Tom, Dick and Harry out on the road that day, unless it's a closed course obviously. I've never done a paid cycling event (casual, not races) that had any law enforcement assistance or any closed roads. "

It seems people truly do not understand how insurance works. Let's say someone bandits a ride. Then let's say a car makes a legal and safe right turn only to have the cyclist ride into the back of the car, causing damage to the car.

A lawyer is hired and he realizes the event has insurance. He does not care if the accident was caused by a bandit. The insurance company probably looks at the amount of the claim versus potential legal fees and they choose to settle. And the lawyer knows this.

Now the insurance company raises the premium for the event organizer.

And by the way, the police, police cars, and other emergency personnel are typically rented by the event. So your tax dollars are not being used for the emergency personnel on course.

But hey, insurance is immaterial and these are public roads, so go right ahead and bandit those rides.

low of 5 high 19

HTFU and ride... you are an embarrassment to your fellow canucks

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

-Lol, I know I should HTFU! but I really got used to the nice hot summer we had! and I hate cold! I may snap out of it one day? but in the mean time I'm a wuss! :)

If the roads are open to traffic an I really wanted to ride (unsupported) I would ride.

With that in mind, if the ride is sold out it probably going to be pretty crowded out there so I would get going early.

jaretj

Even if you don't stop at a rest stop you're not riding unsupported Jaret. The people you're riding with have paid for route marking, sag vehicles, permits, additional emergency services, and 'goodwill' to appease the general public among other expenses. Bandits are also depriving the promoting organization of the profit they've earned from creating the event. It just ain't cool.

Ah yes....I can see it all now....just sit back imagine Phil and JGP at the county clerk's office:

Phil: we'd like to apply for an event permit
Clerk: certainly sir, please fill out these forms, attach proof of insurance and a check for $1000
JGP: but the roads are free!!!!
Clerk: I'm sorry sir, in this county any gathering of over 100 people requires an event permit
JGP: you really don't have an argument!
Clerk: would you like to discuss that with the county attorney?
JGP: we will do it anyways, because we can! being a public road!
Clerk: oic...perhaps we should have you talk to the county sheriff?
JGP: nope...does not apply!!
Clerk: ROTFLMAO

What's even funnier is the fact I used to work at the county clerks office!! lol

I ended up riding about 45 miles on the course and the 70 off the course...the part I saw on the course (from mile 10 on) I did not see many people at all, no police, all quiet backroads and nver saw more than groups of 3 riders at a time....

Phil,
I see your point, but I think you are a bit over the top with it. Just because you decide to have an event doesn't mean everyone on 'your' course is a bandit. It doesn't mean that everyone has to change their riding schedule for YOU and YOUR event because you bought a permit. We have at least a dozen rides that depart from the small town I live in and almost every single one of them go right through my neighborhood. I have participated in just about all of them as a registered, paying participant over the past several years. I frequently ride the same roads and same routes and sometimes hundreds of riders that are part of some organized ride that I didn't know about show up on my route. Am I a bandit? Hell no. I am just a guy on a bike on my usual ride. I'll be damned if I am going to feel guilty because my route is being used by 1,000 or 1,500 riders for some ride that I didn't register for. Around here, the cyclists know the best roads to use. You know, the roads with minimal traffic and smooth pavement. So, we all tend to use them. I don't need refreshments (carry my own), route marking (I know where I am going), sag vehicles (I carry my own tubes, tools, and cell phone) or hopefully, emergency vehicles. If I DO need an emergency vehicle, then I will rely on the 911 dispatcher to determine who will respond. If they assign one of YOUR 'paid for' responders, then you need to take it up with the dispatcher. I don't care if there are cops stopping traffic at the intersections, I didn't ask for them to be there and every other morning I make it through the intersection just fine without them.

Although I think there are people that actually plan to participate in an event at some location where they normally wouldn't ride and I agree they are taking advantage of the organization of the event, there are some of us that just happen to be there because we are there EVERY weekend. If the roads are not closed, then I will be riding my route just like I always do and any organizer can KMA if he doesn't like it.

JMHO.
Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

Most of your points are unsustainable and the last sentence is over the top.

  
Intent is really the issue here. If someone intends to ride in a group ride that they didnt pay for, it's a tool bag move. If your just out and just happen to cross paths with a group ride, fair game. Even then I dont think I'd actively get in the middle of the group, but that's not really banditting and what the OP was talking about I dont think. He wanted to show up and ride a group ride he didnt pay/register for (or atleast see what the respectful/right thing to do with that situation).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Are you riding the Lighthouse ride? if so you can still but tickets.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

What do you mean that my points are 'unsustainable'? And the last statement was provoked by some of your equally over the top attitudes and extremely strict viewpoints. Wouldn't normally tell anyone to KMA.

I agree that bandits are jerks, but you seem willing to classify a LOT of people as bandits that don't deserve it, that's all.

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

I respectfully disagree.

If there is a ride going on near my place and it's time for me to ride I don't care about their routes, I'm going to ride wherever I please as long as the roads are open to the public.

Also, it's interesting how you just quoted part of my sentence to suit your needs.

jaretj

I won't speak for Mr. Bandit, but you just don't get it. It's time for you to ride and there happens to be an organized event on your route? Fine, enjoy your ride. You know there's an organized event nearby and you decide to ride that route at that time? You're a bandit.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

So, you believe that if a person 'knows' that an organized ride is taking place on their route, they must pay the organizer of the ride so they will have permission to ride that day? I have ridden many mornings when I knew there was an organized ride going on and some when I didn't. Are you saying that if I 'know' there is a ride going on, I need to go find the organizer and pay him for alleged services or enjoyment that I neither want or need. What if I don't care to support the charity he is raising money for? Any organized ride relies upon voluntary participation. You can't force a person to pay or call them a bandit just because they are doing what they always do on Saturday mornings whether they know about the ride or not. I can't schedule my long rides around these charity events when I have a full time job and the temps go into the 90's after noon. I am riding in the morning and if they want to run a charity ride while I am on my ride, fine. But I am not paying them. In fact, if I catch any grief or am labelled by anyone a 'bandit', I will take an active role at our town's next monthly meeting and suggest that we not allow any more organized rides to take place that chastise the locals for using the same roads to do their own rides. Would hate to do that, but I would if I experienced some of the attitudes I have seen expressed in this thread.

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

I stopped reading here. I never came close to saying what you wrote.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Really? What am I missing?

"You know there's an organized event nearby and you decide to ride that route at that time? You're a bandit."

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

Am I supposed to drive to another place to ride instead of riding my bike from my place?

I'm not saying that I'm going to drive to the ride site 20 miles away and start with them, I'm riding from my place. The roads they choose are the only ones I'm able to ride on safely and are part of my normal routine.

jaretj

Are you all really that dense? One word: intent.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I just want to know how many times you ride from your house and somehow end up in the middle of the group rides? It seems like it happens to yall every other weekend.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Since I ride on a park road near my place almost exclusively...about 4 to 6 times from June to September.

So 4 to 6 times in 16 weeks

What do you do in those situations? Just sit in in the middle of it or get around them? I guess it depends on what type of pace but to me it would be more of a hassle than anything. Almost makes you want to pull a u turn.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

It appeared to me at first that you were saying it was a black or white situation, I must have been mistaken.

Since you are looking at intent, I clearly don't intend on riding anyone else's route. They just put their events on the most popular roads around here and I can't avoid them all of the time.

It's definitly a hassle, I don't like it at all.

I have to alter my route but am still stuck with riding ~12 miles to get away from them, then ~12 miles to get back home. Hopefully by then most of them are done.

There's nothing wrong with you riding your normal routes whenever you wish.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

brooks,
I understand what you mean, but I wasn't responding to the OP. Some of the posters on this thread have applied the bandit label to people that I don't consider bandits at all. Additionally, they have insulted some of them by calling them dense, etc. because they are riding the same roads at the same time as if it was malicous or something. Sometimes, people are on the same roads at the same time because that's what they do every Saturday morning. Cycling is very popular in my small town and a lot of people drive up from the large, neighboring city to ride up here. From the comments of some of the posters, they would consider them bandits even though they are doing the same thing they do every weekend.

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

From an etiquette standpoint, IMO, totally uncool. From a legal standpoint, you are likely placing the event in jeopardy. (Again, not "you" as 1 additional rider, but, where does it stop?)

Joel,

Agreed. Your last statement is key. Again we get out onto a slippery slope - 1 extra rider, no big deal, but what if a hundred people in a 500 person event think/do the same thing. Then what?

I watch/read these threads with interest, not with regard to the topic at hand - to bandit or not bandit, but the way our society as a whole is drifting that seems to be more or all about ME, and much less, or not at all about anyone else, or the collective good of a group or our society! If I want to do something - that's all that matters, full stop!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Scenario 1: the paid-century ride happens to be on the same route, day, and time that you are going to do your century ride. You know there is an organized ride, you start down the street from that ride, instead of waiting another hour you wait for the group to arrive unti, but you don't use any support or get an official time. Clearly you are banditing the race but why should it matter? Who cares? Because there are people who paid to ride on a public road that day?

Scenario 2: You're out and about on your normal ride, which happens to be on the same course as an organized century. You either knew or didn't know there was an organized ride that day. Group comes by so you decide to tag along for the rest of their ride. Clearly you are banditing the race but why should it matter? Who cares?

Scenario 3: It's your first day off without work, kids, and family. The only day you're had in ages to squeeze in a century ride. And there is now an roganized century ride with a bunch of yahoos right on your course. They happen to be leaving at the same time as you. So you tag along and suck somebody's wheel for 99 miles. Who cares?

I love how on these threads, that the scenarios you sketch out seem to happen all the time to so many people - that there is almost always some form of race/event( Tri, cycling, running, whatever) going on right around the corner from just about everyone's house, typically that they had no idea about, all the time. Why is it in 30 years as a cyclist, triathlete and runner, this has never happened to me? - and I live in a reasonably large urban area that has a lot of events going on!!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I'm sorry...but I gotta toss the BS Flag on the idea that someone just happens to be riding a full 100 miles on the exact roads at the exact time of an organized event. Sections of the course? Certainly. A good percentage of the course? OK. The whole ride? Ummmm........not so much.

At least own up to what you are doing and stop with the mental gymnastics in order to justify your actions.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I did once "bandit" part of a Century ride, but it was unintentional. The ride was on my weekly long ride course, and set out on a Saturday morning and noticed large pack of riders. I went on my merry way. I was offered refreshments at feed stations, but refused. Otherwise, I felt the roads are public, why should I be forced not to ride. I did not clog the start or finish. I rode the middle 60 miles.

"I watch/read these threads with interest, not with regard to the topic at hand - to bandit or not bandit, but the way our society as a whole is drifting that seems to be more or all about ME, and much less, or not at all about anyone else, or the collective good of a group or our society! If I want to do something - that's all that matters, full stop!"

Funny, I enjoy these threads too because it is interesting to hear some of the opinions. And I got the '...it's all about ME...' feeling when I read some of the comments on this thread from an organizer of events and one or two others. I live in a small town full of triathletes, cyclists, and runners. You wouldn't believe the number of people on the local roads on bikes and on foot around here on any Saturday morning. I can join any one of at least five group rides or two or three running groups. Many of these people come from other places to ride or run with other people in this area. Just last weekend, while on my LBS ride, we had to alter our route and eliminate a section of bike path we normally use to avoid a local half marathon. These people are not adopting an 'all about me' attitude because they come up for their regular ride and find out there's a local charity ride going on on the same route and they are not bandits. Those people were riding those routes when the organizer picked that venue for their ride. If an organizer labels them as 'bandits', it is the organizer that is displaying the selfish attitude for thinking that everyone should stay off of HIS route while he runs HIS event.

And if you are curious as to where this nirvana of fitness is located, move to Davidson, NC. ;-) Shameless Chamber of Commerce plug over.

Greg

ETA: In response to your comment about how you find it hard to believe that people live right around the corner from all of these organized activities, well, yes, I actually do live about 1/3 mile from a corner where almost every local footrace and most local organized rides pass. Since my street is a dead end, I can't even start my ride without being on most of the local organized ride routes in less than a minute. I have to go around THAT corner. Last weekend, I rode past the leader of the half marathon and the bike escort just ahead on my way to my bike shop ride (the guy was absolutely FLYING too, ran a 1:10). That's the way it is around here. Although I still participate in most of the local charity rides (as a registered participant), sometimes I just don't feel like it. Sometimes, I just want to do my thing and all of these people show up to ride the same roads. I don't mind, but I am definitely not a bandit because I am out there too and I am not going to change my route because of it.

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

The rides around my place start early ~7am but it's not a group ride. People start from 7 to 9am and are in groups of 2 to 10 people riding 20, 50 or 100 mile routes.

I've never seen one where everyone stays together.

And if you are curious as to where this nirvana of fitness is located, move to Davidson, NC. ;-) Shameless Chamber of Commerce plug over.

Greg,

Indeed, it sounds like you live in an endurance sports nirvana. With all due respect, I suspect that is the exception and not the rule, where most people live. I to live in an area with lots of cycling, running and triathlon events - but as stated never in 30 years, have I ever just "happened upon" and event in progress. If an event was going on around the corner from me, and I knew about it, I would offer to volunteer, help out or spectate!!

The Centurion event that took place near Collingwood Ontario yesterday has been brought up on this thread. It's the biggest event of it's kind in Ontario. You would have to have been living on the moon for the last year to not know it was going on. Plus, there are about a hundred or more other rides and routes in the area that you could have taken. Why would the persons personal ride, even if they lived in the area - have to be on that course/route??

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I happen upon events(5-6 a summer) that I have no idea are going on. Why? well, because I have no interest in them, so I do not bother spending my time researching them. I do not, however, join in. No desire to join the cluster*.* I sometimes alter my route to escape asap, but then again, I don't like tag-a-longs on my rides either. I enjoy the solitude and time to think

In 2010 I forgot about the Tour to Conquer Cancer event held right on my normal training roads. It's a 2-day event where they ride south 100k camp there and ride 100k back north the next day.

I'm out for a ride on my normal route heading south on the Sunday and start noticing more and more cyclists heading north. The closer I get to my turn around spot in Longview, AB the more cyclists I see. After I see a rest stop on the other side of the rode being set up, it finally clicks that it's the charity ride. Unless I change my route drastically, I'm going to be riding with these people on my return. The cyclists for the event were stringed out and were surprisingly without any large pelotons. Anyway, I make the turnaround and just ride. I'm probably in the middle of what seemed like 2000 people.

The kilometers click by and I start picking up wheel suckers. I look back after some time and I must have been leading a train of 15 guys plus and it keeps getting longer. Beyond this, I'm constantly having to negotiate around other cyclists - who aren't exactly staying to the right. To pass, I often had to move out of the shoulder into traffic. But, now that I'm pulling a train I have to not only do this safely for me but for the entire chain of cyclists on my wheel. It was annoying to say the least. In my opinion, these guys were the bandits of my training ride more than anything else! I rode about 55k with these fools and was hating every minute of it.

These charity rides are full of novice cyclists with no handling or safety skills. I'd suggest you don't really even want to bandit it.

Now, was I in the wrong because I happened to be in the right place at the wrong time? Nope. I never considered what I did bandit riding.

fleck, yep, I am aware that the situation in my town is an exception to the norm, but many responders to this thread have expressed a very strict and intolerant view of people that are on the same roads as THEIR ride at the same time. When I read some of the comments and their characterization of what THEY consider a bandit, I realized they would put me and a lot of the people I ride with in that category. I don't hold a grudge against them for bringing hundreds or thousands of riders into our local riding area, but they need to accept the fact that other people use the same roads and routes whether they are there or not and they aren't self serving 'bandits' trying to join an organized event without paying. They are simply doing the same thing they always do.

All that being said, I agree that there is a problem with people banditing races. Going to a specific place that you don't normally go and joining an organized ride with a bunch of people so that you can avail yourself of the comaraderie, services, etc. isn't cool. However, some respondents went well beyond that interpretation.

Greg

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

Funny you mention this because some of the locals wouldn't even give a flying hoot if there was a race going on or not. They ride their rides irregardless. I remember doing a Half Iron race a couple of years ago wherein during the bike portion I chanced upon an old timer riding his bike along the bike route. He was a decent cyclist who seemed to be riding the same pace that everyone riding. I couldn't help but assume he was doing a weekend ride that's been part of his riding routine for years. We had a very brief conversation which ended with him saying "Take your Fuc*^%$# race out of my town." Let's see if anyone here would dare to go up to this local and call him a bandido to his face.


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I think douchebag would be enough for it to cover all the basis with that guy.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I know what you mean but you wouldn't want to call a local guy who wants to ride in his town longer than you've been alive a DB just because he is opinionated.


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If someone is telling me to fuck off and get out of their town because I'm racing an "interupting" his Sunday morning fun ride, by all means he's deserving of the DB comment.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

hes not saying hes going to bandit a race to not pay the money the event is full so he couldn't pay if he wanted to I'm sure hed sign up and pay if he could.

 I think from the etiquette standpoint the thing to do would be to contact someone from the event..... explain the situation and see what they say. I would be curious to know what the reason for capping it is. ( Logistics, ordinance? ) Usually events like this want as many people as possible. The OP was not trying to get out of paying or use any of the events resources........ If they say sorry..... can't register you and we prefer you not do the course.... as a question of "etiquette" ( Being uninvited and not wanted ) I would not ride the course.

He's definately not BS'ing. It's literally impossible to keep up with everything going on in the area. Every corner around here had every color imaginable symbol/arrow painted on it. Someone has gone as far to set up TT mile interval markers on one road with a turnaround. Part of the issue is the 40 mile long lake to the west and huge urban center to the south sending every ride/race out to the east and north.

While I would go out of my way to steer clear of a "race" that I stumbled across, I'd definately join in with friends riding an organized event if I met up with them. I've participated in many of them and volunteered for others so if they don't catch my coin this time they'll likely get it another time.

I have intentionally bandited one charity event that I have done for several years since a friend had signed up and was driving 8 hours to do it. I didn't expect it to sell out in days since it typically had been months. I didn't feel the least bit guilty about it.