"You're all winners"

I was actually thinking about this today.. might not matter in the grand scheme of things but I'm a big fan of the cash prizes found at even local running and cycling races... even better (make more sense for sponsors of races, etc..) are gift certificates to Local running/biking/tri stores. The best prize I've received came after a 10 mile road race.. $50 gift certificate to LBS. Guess what? I used that and ended up spending much more than that at the store (bike tune up, etc..). I would NOT have gone there if I did not have that gift certificate but now I am a repeat customer.



spark notes --> I don't understand why more races don't give out gift certificates to local businesses (running/biking stores, etc..) as prizes.

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http://cyclussports.com/ - #ZeroPositive #CyclusSports
http://app.strava.com/athletes/355549
https://twitter.com/ryanAjoyce

Cycling has it right.....Winners / Podiums get cash money in all Cats (except 5, generally its swag)

No goodie bag or event t-shrit. You show up race your ass off and winners are rewarded. Drink a few beers and adjourn until next week when you do it again....

Triathlon / Running are participant sports now for better or worse.

I would love to see more usable goods to winners of tris, following the bike racing genre with race wheels or something cool like that. Even if you don't need or want the prize, it still might have a cash value at the sponsoring shop or eBay. I also like the gift certificate for the local/sponsoring shop. It helps get more money in the door of the shop and is something that anybody who rides a bike can actually use.

I am doing a rinky dinky local 5k this weekend with a better cash payout to top 3 finishers (after 20 minutes or less of effort) than any other race I am registered for this summer. The entry fee was modest (almost nil when you consider the "free" t shirt) and the organizers clearly are rolling some of their profits into the prize payouts. I know what race I plan on doing every year, come hell or high water.

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"It never gets easier, you just go faster."
-Greg LeMond

If I win (which would never happen), at least give me my entry fee back.

Ive only been in the sport for a little over a year now, but I already have more t-shirts and grocery bags than I know what to do with.

One thing that Ive noticed recently is that winners get some cheesy prize, and then the RD's proceed to start giving out gift cards and other prizes that are actually worth something to random bib numbers that they pull out of a hat.

exactly......

i haven't been to a cycling race that had one person bitching saying, i didn't get a shirt or i didn't get a medal

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Tim

Yup. I won a local tri last year and it took them 2 days to figure out who the actual winner was, let alone the other placing. No prize whatsoever for $60 entrance fee and probably 1000 people in the event. I win a crit and I get some armwarmers and shoecovers, and I only paid $9 to enter. WTF?

BREAKING NEWS: The Pity Train just derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On, and crashed into We All Have Problems, before coming to a complete stop at Get The Hell Over It. Any complaints can be forwarded to 1-800-waa-aaahDr. Sniffle Reporting LIVE from Quitchur Bitch-in.

Do you really race to win $hit?

YES!

what do you race for? or do you just make charitable donations to gather with bunch of friends that 'trained' for the gathering to see who trained more for said gathering?

if i just want to go really hard and time myself, i can do that at home! FILM AT 11:00

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Tim

There are lots of races, both running and triathlon, that offer cash prizes. Maybe you should be signing up for these. Otherwise, you'll have to be satisfied with the trinket your receive for your AG podium in the Cherry Picker 5K.

PS I'm pretty sure an inanimate object can't start a fight.

It was looking at them the wrong way.


i do sign up for bike race, and duathlon/tri events that pay out. i'm talking about the other 95% of the races.

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Tim

I won a race over the weekend. The year before I was 2nd overall, and I got $75. This year I got nothing, and the amount of participants doubled. What happened?

The RD got a divorce and needed the cash.

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

and that is messed up!

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Tim

Quote:

what do you race for? or do you just make charitable donations to gather with bunch of friends that 'trained' for the gathering to see who trained more for said gathering?

if i just want to go really hard and time myself, i can do that at home! FILM AT 11:00

Well Said.

i think the same goes for shirts and hats. I have a closet full of hats that still have the tags on them and a garage full of race shirts that make great rags. I would much rather see that money put into better prizes (even if I never get one). One of the local races here gave the winners big bags of coffee (one of the sponsors was a new coffee brand trying to promote) and free entry into next years race. Or at least put some useful stuff into my SWAG bag. I hate opening up my bag and all I see is coupons for places that I would never go.

I have one foot on each side of the fence here. If you train to win and get nothing for that effort it really does suck, but in a really large race like you are talking about here most people know they have no real chance of placing and do want all the free swag. Should race directors cater to the majority, minority, or both. The logical answer is both, so the key is finding those races and supporting them. There are lots of races to pick from here in New England and it is up to the individual to find what will satisfy them at the end of the race.

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Contemplating a multi-sport comeback

I race to go as fast I can go. Sometimes to beat someone else. No time trial makes that happen. If it does, then I'm not racing right. If I raced just to win stuff I would have quit racing long ago

If you don't like do something about instead of bitching about it here on Slowtwitch. Maybe you should start your own race series and offer prize money to the top 3 or so. Complaining here isn't going to solve anything.

He can keep the money then. That would suck.

i am considering this as we speak.

i like the idea of starting back at a grass roots level. everyone throws 5-10 in the hat and winner takes all.

starting a BIG series might be tough, what with the cost of peanut butter and jelly nowadays.

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Tim

in fact.

my team (read ME) puts on a Duathlon EVERY Monday night in Big Flats, NY.

it's flat and it's fast.

come one come all. $5/head winner takes all!

Tim

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Tim

Because not all local businesses are local to the prize winners.

Here's another reason it's not such a good idea: people who win prizes at triathlons usually have all the stuff they need already.

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

I think it is one of the reasons that other sports don't take triathlon competitions seriously.

I have a similar experience. I got second overall at a big expensive race, my reward was a plastic necklace for my age group. They didn't even announce the overall placing. They did proceed to give out 3 "awards" to every 5 year age group for men and women.

I know I will never sign up for that companie's events again. Cycling races will give previous winners free or severely reduced race entry, in addition to the cool prize they received for winning.

If you think that there isn't money in a races budget, wake up! Races are very profitable. It is the equivalent of using slave labor and donated food to throw a concert, and not paying the band.

See that sounds like a fun race. I am driving up to Burlington Vermont in August for AG race and to visit my cousin maybe I will swing by and take all the money.

Someone call a waaaambulance, just kiddin. I just happed to have made the podium at a mt bike race and a road race already this year and got 25 and 30 dollars on gift cards for local bike shops an I thought it was pretty cool, I did get a ribbon too.

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'STICK EM UP PUNK ITS THE FUN LOVING CRIMINAL'

My reward is the crushed dreams of the less mediocre athletes I beat

BUT, it is nice to get cool prizes, and for a $300+ entry fee there ought to be nice prizes.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

dead on!



making flyers for weekly races now.

some people have weekly card games where they throw some money in the ring, why not weekly races doing the same thing?

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Tim

and YOU could have it! that's how it would work!

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Tim

Wait . . . what?

it's ok..... i don't ACTUALLY go there! i'm not entirely sure if i spelled it correct, when i look down at my shirt it's upside down......

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Tim

Just turn pro.

As I've said before, they make tons of money.

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_______________________
Powered by Demons.

I have been in USCF races where there were fast and dangerous prime sprints for a bag of bagels or a tube. Sometimes you have to decide what you are willing to do for your sport. Let's face it, the race organizers realize that they can get away with this kind of stuff and people will still line up to race.

Its kind of funny... I raced a duathlon this weekend, and I know the drill about not receiving prizes at all. The short course men's winner (who edged me out for that spot... grrr) and the long course women's winner were both first time multisport event participants (dude a XC guy, chick a cyclist), and they both said the same thing after they received two mini trophies and a free entry to next year's event (not in a hugely disappointed way, but in a 'huh, that's surprising' way).

When a local 5k with 10-15 actual competitors, and 300 total participants can score a $200 visa gift card, and similar/smaller cash money prizes going to places 2-3, on a $25 registration fee with 90% of proceeds going to charity (example dude used), and the winner of a 4-day Cat. 3 women's stage race can win a $1,000 wheelset (example chick used), there's something wrong when the winners of a 300 person field receive a prize that costs LITERALLY NOTHING for the RDs. Work on your sponsorship a little more...

when there is an elite category in an event (that doesn't require a pro card) i sign up for it. i don't care if i'm supporting the top three contenders, i'm still racing for a chance.

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Tim

So, when you were signing up for the race, what did the flyer or web site list for prizes?

If you want to win money, register for races that have cash prizes.

So... what did the winner get? You know, the guy (and gal) who won the race?

You entered a team event and placed 3rd.

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Actually the Relay you were doing WAS for a charity. It is a fundraiser for Organs R Us, a very important charity. The fact that it is a fundraising event for ORU is clearly stated on all the entry forms. Prize money or prizes are not listed so I do not know why you would expect something for your 3rd place finish. When you sign up for a Tour de Cure ride or Rotary Club 10K, do you expect prize money or anything more than a ribbon if you win? I hope not, because that would be pretty sad.

And besides, how do I know your team actually took 3rd place? How do I know you didn't take shortcuts somewhere along the 195 mile course or one of your runners didn't hop into the van for a breather. There are no timing chips or other tracking of runners other than a cursory check-in at transitions. I'll go on record right now and say Twinracers team just drove the entire route, parked at each transition, drank beer and farted alot, watched a little porn on the van's DVD player, waited what they felt was an appropriate amount of time and sent a runner in to check-in with the volunteer. They cheated and on top of that want prize money for their deception. Man, that's as low as cheating at Sunday bingo at the local senior center.

But then he can't complain about the bad prizes........

I get what you're saying... Making winning something special.

I did a double race this weekend (duathlon on Sat with 1/2 mary on Sun). We got ZERO swag, except for that grocery bag. All finishers got a medal. The AG winners got metal pails with flowers. It would have been nice if the flowers were at least larger sizes for the 1st place. At least we got a different color t-shirt for signing up for both races. It's like racing has become elementary school PE class or little league soccer. We don't keep score and everyone gets a prize so that no one feels bad.

As Quantum said, I would have loved it if the winners got free entries to next year's race. That'll never apply to me but still be sweet.

Still, I'll probably do those races again next year (mostly due to proximity and timing).

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Tr-Banter - don't foget that

1. You recieved a long sleeve New Balance tech shirt instead of a short sleeve for doing both races
- One of the perks for doing both. a better shirt
2. You recieved a reduced fee for entering both
- if you registered early you got to do the Du and Half for $75. Not bad for an urban based event with nearly $40,000 in police fees alone
3. There were cash prizes for the top 5 overall in the half marathon plus bonus money available. Couple thousand dollars total
4. Finisher medals on both days. Might not mean much to you but it sure does to lots of others
5. Age group winners recieved a larger flower pot then 2nd and 3rd
6. How do you know returning overall champions pay for their entry fee's

Don't get me wrong, we are very glad you joined us but a couple of your "facts" were off

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

FF Boots,

I don't mean to offend you. I thought there were many positives of this event. I thought the race venue, volunteers, and organization were great. I think you people at Fleet Feet and Yellow Jacket do us people in the greater Rochester area good. From my POV, there were some things that I'd appreciate more. I am sure that there are lots of people who love some of the perks (medals for all, t-shirts for all, different color shirt). I bet I am in the minority. I got one of those age group flowers. No one shook my hand when I received it, took my picture, or said 'good job'. Or to the other winners, from what I saw. In your defense, I did show up late for the awards, mostly because they started earlier than posted on the schedule. None of the racers in the AG shook hands. I would have liked any of those a lot more than the other 'perks' that were given out that day. I'd have even paid full price. (I made a point to wear my long-sleeved New Balance shirt when I got my flower. Completely ignored. Hey, I tried.) Again, I liked the event but you'd have to be naive to think that you can please everyone in all aspects of the race. I appreciate what you guys and Ellen do for us racers in terms of quality and quantity. In the spirit of the rant by the OP, I understand what he's getting at. He wants to feel special for competing and winning, not just for signing up. I get that.

My overall feelings. FLEET FEET and YELLOW JACKET rock! Thank you for what you do for us.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Lack of any prize of value annoys me too. You know, it actually doesn't even have to be valuable if it is something interesting and memorable. It's funny that you bring this up though, I was just sent an online survey by the manager of a race company whose events I have done twice in the past. The online survey had a section about what characteristics drive you to do a race. Prizes were not even one of the factors listed that you could agree/disagree with.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Where is this crit? I might have to move. :)

weekly Seattle series in Seward Park. $10 for a number for the season, $10 per race, or buy a bunch of entries and get a discount. Road racing (crits at least) is so much cheaper than tris it's ridiculous.

"There's no poinits for second best."
Cheap Trick

"Silver is the first loser."
Nike

If extrinisic motivation is your driving force you'll be out of the sport soon enough...

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

Could Twinracer2 et all the followers please send me the names of the races in which they are the Race Director so I can come to their races and get all the good prizes? �I love it when people complain about prizes and have never put on their own race. Step up here folks and give me the names of the races you put on. I do 4 a year minimum.

i am getting annoyed (pissed really) at shelling out $$$ for RACES that are becoming nothing more than "charity" events.

Then stop doing it.

Actually the Relay you were doing WAS for a charity.

It's amazing to me how many of those who come on here and cry about some injustice done to them turn out to leave out the facts that would completely change their argument.

How do I know you didn't take shortcuts somewhere along the 195 mile course or one of your runners didn't hop into the van for a breather.

Plus with a username like twinracer2, how would you know he was even in the race?

It is a fundraiser for Organs R Us, a very important charity.

BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS PRIZE MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote Trieatalot
And besides, how do I know your team actually took 3rd place? How do I know you didn't take shortcuts somewhere along the 195 mile course or one of your runners didn't hop into the van for a breather. There are no timing chips or other tracking of runners other than a cursory check-in at transitions. I'll go on record right now and say Twinracers team just drove the entire route, parked at each transition, drank beer and farted alot, watched a little porn on the van's DVD player, waited what they felt was an appropriate amount of time and sent a runner in to check-in with the volunteer. They cheated and on top of that want prize money for their deception. Man, that's as low as cheating at Sunday bingo at the local senior center.[/quote]


this right here is what i'm starting to really hate about slowtwitch.

"hey, person i've never met, how do i know you didn't cheat?"

-mike

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Dear race directors:

Please contact every participant in your race to pre-determine what type of awards each of us would like. Then make sure you, in your spare time leading up to the race, go out and buy an individual gift for each potential winner. This would save all of us self-centered athletes the trouble of receiving awards that we don't like. You know we live a rough life and getting on the podium during the race is not enough. Most of us race to get the $5-20 awards that we couldn't otherwise afford since we spent $5000 on our bike.

I mean, it is the least you can do since you make tons of money on each race. And after all I DID pay to enter you event.

Sincerely

Trispoke

Where is the sarcasm font again?

Dear Triathlete:

I't been my pleasure charging you $100 for the privilege of using my mostly volunteer-staffed race course for 1.5 hours. As a measure of appreciation, I decided to serve you a nice 75-cent hamburger at the finish line, and give you the chance to buy a fairly chilled soft drink at a 200% markup at the post-race "party." (Note that actual partying will be strongly discouraged at the post-race party.) The "winner's certificate" that I ran through my inkjet printer last night and now hand to you is hopefully indicative of my respect for your efforts in training and on the racecourse, and, of course, for your contributions to my bottom line.


If you'd like to give me some more money, you can always buy a nice race t-shirt. After all, I DID do all that work to put on your event.

Sincerely,
dick assman

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

iron_mike: thanks for your support.

Jollyrogers: if races would post this readily that would make things a little easier

Khai: the first place team ALSO got the SAME necklace as our team.......... and the same necklace as the 3rd place all female team that finished 4+hrs later.

Trieatalot: i get your humor......NOBODY ELSE does. (it's ok)

Bmcmaster: i got other things in life lined up to complain about if this awards complaining gig falls through.

Tri-Banter: thanks for your support

LazyEp: i agree, second is the first looser! but when the 1st place team gets the same shaft, that pisses me off. i would have been happier if the first place team got $500 and we got NOTHING.

G-man: i pay damn good money to attend the races that are put on. i am starting to attend less as a result of my dis-satisfaction. i will be setting up my own 'grass-roots' type races (cliche` i know)

FJB: you keep studying for the test you never take and i'll keep training for the race i never do. and dude, enough with the username crappy attempts at defining me in this faceless internet world. i'm not hiding, you can googlebash me all you want.

Trispoke: i'm not asking for individual 'Gifts'. go back and re-read the OP. i am asking for AWARDS for the TOP finishers. You know the people you see standing on that funny box in front of the crowd at the end of the race?


can't you guys do this banter during working hours? i was too busy training for my next charitable donation to check my emails last night.





i'm NOT a twin..... my kids are.

i do 'events' that are labeled as 'races'. i don't do charity rides nor would i expect to receive an 'award' if i did.

i pay for a RACE i always complete and compete in the RACE i shouldn't have to put one on (but i will) myself in order to have it done right. there has to be some race directors that get it out there?

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Tim

Food seems to be a popular award in New Hampshire and Vermont and I prefer it over a trophy/medal. I've won big hunks of cheese, apple pie, spice breads and maple syrup. Those are the prizes my kids still talk about.

my kids loved the syrup from Mooseman. the medal..... not so much.

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Tim

So doesn't that mean they are the winner of all the losers? There should be 2 golds then.... ;)

Or do what Plushenko did after winning silver at the Olympics in figure skating last year... make your own "platinum" medal and declare yourself its winner.

Can't say I have ever entered a race as a means of supplementing my income or to win a prize above the knoweledge that I won, however I have had great experiences over the last year at races where I was the OA winner. Here's the best stuff I have won:
2010 Las Palomas Olympic Triathlon- I won a 2 foot tall super magnum bottle of tequila. It's awesome and still mostly full.
2010 DeuceMan Half Iron- I won a $350 gift card to TriSports, bought a Kurt Kinectic trainer.
2010 McDowell Mountain Frenzy 15K trail run- I won a plastic trophy handed to me as I crossed the line.
2011 Sonoran Challenge 15K trail race- I won a gift card to a local runing store worth $75.
2011 Mountain to Fountain 15K- This was the great. I was part of a Masters Team of 8 guys. Everyone runs the race, top 4 times count. Winner get's their heaviest team members weight in beer. Went home with 2 cases of Kiltlifter Ale. :)

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

i'm not kidding myself into thinking there is even a chance in hell to supplementing my income.

but those awards you won all sound pretty cool to me!

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Tim

Hey we all race for different reasons so if swag is your M.O. then there is nothing wrong with that, just make sure you inspect what kinds of toys you might be in for b/f plunking down your entry fee maybe?

If there were any zero swag races I'm certain it would be equal to me doing a solo training ride.....camaraderie and stocked aid stations are enough to get me to the starting line:/

I always wished they would drop the entry fees by 50%. If it aint money, I don't need more sh!t in my house.

I am working on a open tri and cat 4/5 TT series in southern delaware and our number one goal is having an affordable race. 3 triathlons $100 and 3 TT's $50. tris would be sprint-oly-olyplus, TT's would be 10k, 20k and a 30k. 150 entrant cap off (reserve 50 womans slots). application only to get in. top times are in first. no prizes. no crap bags. no t-sh!ts. BYOB and BYOF and BYO webber grill.

My advice, is to check the prizes before you enter.

noted.

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Tim

Just curious...how many folks in this pity party are race directors?

As someone that wins races and directs them, I have my own thoughts...but I am holding back just now...

You (particular winner of said event) are ultimately unimportant to the RD. The winner is merely the one that crosses the line first. Regardless of whether you show up or not, there will always be a winner - as long as there are enough participants to cover the costs of the race.

The participants are the important ones.

The volunteers are even more important.

You (said whining winner) make up a total of one person - you do not make up a race.

RD's go through far more effort than you can comprehend to organize events.

If your RD looks after the mass of participants, and the mass of volunteers, perhaps - if you are lucky - they will chose to do all that work again next year so that once more you have the opportunity to enter that race next year too.

Still whining?

Then go start your own race and find out just how much work it is. Better yet, volunteer to help out with this one. I'm sure the RD would welcome the assistance.

Perhaps all the money you raise can go towards prizes for the winners of this race next year - happy now?

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http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/

99+% of the people don't give a rats ass if you get a prize or not and I'm one of them. I'd much rather see a charity get a few more dollars or reduced entry fee for everyone else. If the 5 or so people who have a chance to actually win don't show then *shrug*. Guess you just need to look at what motivates you and why or running/racing in the first place.

FTR, I direct 2-4 running races a year and ALWAYS make sure the awards are something of value. Overall awards are typically a pair of shoes, AG are a $20 gift certificate to my running store. Doesn't matter if there are 50 or 500 people, there is no excuse for crappy awards.

For other races, the one thing that drives me nuts is having to pay money to have your award shipped after the fact. Race this paced weekend and got an AG award. Yippie. I paid $100 to enter and now have to pay a couple bucks more to get the award? No, $5 isn't a big deal, but damn.

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speedySTATES

I've won age groups dozens of times and got OA podium several times and the only thing approaching something of value was a couple trophies at the larger races and a block of cheese at a 1/2 marathon in vermont. I don't expect 25$+ value awards at anything short of major races. I'm not racing for an award or money, I'm racing to beat people and to see how fast I go. If I needed amazing awards to feel justified racing, I'd just run by myself like some bitter hermit.

with out that "said whining winner" it is not a RACE it is a charity event!

if it is a charity event i wouldn't have gone to it in the first place.

i train to race against people that want to win. i don't train for charity events.



why do you feel the need to get a 'race' from your charitable donation? why not just make the donation and watch the 'event'?

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Tim

2009 Black Fly Tri: three races over the weekend, got three bottles of custom-engraved maple syrup for 1st in AG
2010 ClamMan Triathlon: 1st in AG got me a clam on a ribbon, with a sticker on the clam indicating placing
2008 Riverwinds Tri: 1st overall got me a $50 gift certificate to a shop that wasn't local to me, and a plaque
2009 Riverwinds Tri: 1st overall got me a $30 gift certificate to the same shop, and a plaque
2010 Riverwinds Tri: didn't go :-)

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"Go yell at an M&M"

You should be embarrassed. That thing should be gone by now..

that was a classice response!!!!

Attention ALL RACE Directors: I race for BEER!

1st-20th place in all triathlons should be a 1 gallon groller of beer from a local brewer. I bet you will see a cat fight then...

The Relay is a fundraiser for Organs R Us, a charity that raises funds to promote organ donation. I'm sorry if my prior response was a bit harsh, but claiming the Relay is a "race" is a little weak. I highly doubt Team Google, Team Facebook, or even Team Nike go into it thinking about winning prize money. They are there to raise money and earn bragging rights. ORU puts on a relay run similar to Hodd 2 Coast albeit with far fewer teams, but still has to plan and pay for the logistics of a 195 mile event with 36 transition areas with support, porta potties, medical, and police services. That ain't cheap. They do a great job to see that 200 teams of 12 people each driving 400 vans across the Bay Area for 18-34 hours arrive safely in Santa Cruz. All that and they raise thousands of dollars towards a very worthy cause. Now you want them to give you some trophy to stick on your mantle or some cash you can go spend on booze and hookers? OK, next year, let's ask them for cash prizes and then we will just tell little Sally, forget about that kidney sister, Twinracer needs his prize money.

Sure, and we're all selfish bastards because we have expensive bikes while kids starve to death in the streets. Go monk or go home.

I don't have to race for beer. Any race In Buffalo that knows anything has free beer at the post-race party. Your reward for finishing fast are shorter been table lines and your choice of brews!

you have the race that i was only referencing as the most recent culprit wrong. the race that i was referencing is not the same.

THIS race had 21 exchange points........ 2 of which had 1 porta potty, 1 of which had 2 5gallon gatorade containers filled with water that you put in your own bottle........ there were no lead vehicles and no closed roads....... there was some sponsor swag and food at the end. i wouldn't think the cost of THIS event paralleled the one you are referring to.


as for the thoughtful 'charity', this is off the website (with minor alterations in an attempt to not call out by name):


Are the proceeds from this race going to fund some big frat party?
Certainly not! Any proceeds from registration fees will go into the "City Fund," administered under the auspices of the City Area Community Foundation as a mechanism for seeding grants to people with great ideas for City's betterment.


still feel like the charitable donation is warranted?


edit to ad: in their defense of this particular EVENT, i see no mention of awards or in this case it even being a race. i guess my original example should be changed.......

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Tim

I won $130 at my second stage race as a Cat 5. I rarely race triathlon now.
Road racing is more fun, and the possibility of a cash prize is great.
I have placed at many triathlon events and won shitty medals or plaques that now collect dust in my basement.
With cash I can at least buy a steak dinner or a new set of tires after the race...

I'm a converted road racer of 19 years and dabbling in triathlon-- well, I got a pair of Specialized Trivents so I'm told that once you get the tri shoes you've completely converted over.

I'm not here to rant, but I would like to understand the "why" in regards to the higher entry fees/no monetary prize list in triathlon.

Why is it that you can enter a crit/road race with a $25 entry fee but you have a $2,500 purse that pays 10 deep in a category? However, I'm signing up for tris that are $80 sprints with no monetary prize list. A modest goal in bike racing was to win my entry fee back. If I got REALLY lucky I could pay for my whole weekend (entry, hotel, food, gas), though those occasions were less frequent.

Is USAT insurance really high since you have one leg where your participants could drown?

Is it supply-and-demand? Road races actually use a big prize list to attract more racers. WTC charges ~$600 for an event and has to beat people away with a stick.

Please don't flame me with "if you don't like it, stop signing up for events" because I still pay to enter events and I enjoy them, but I'm just curious.

OK, my bad. I'm guilty of sticking my foot in my mouth big time on this one. From your original post, it really sounded like the Relay in the SF Bay Area which was also run this past weekend.

My apologies.

Yep, bike racing is awesome all around

Funny listening to whiny self-important amateur triathletes complain about prizes.

My...minor...athletic...accomplishments...are...not...that...important, say it five times then get over it.

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some days you're the windshield some days the bug

Listen buddy, if you don't like it, stop signing up for events.

Maybe he will get an organ someday.

i'm good, but my father and his new liver appreciate the gesture........

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Tim

my point exactly. i win races and i don't want anything at all. i usually throw out my awards or my wife does. i have never got an award that i was stoked on. awards do nothing for me. i do like money though!!!. after a tri this weekend, I gave my award to a whipper snapper who had did the kids tri. his eyes blew up and he went crazy. he loved it. i gave my race tech shirt to a guy I work with who is getting into the active lifestyle. his eyes blew up.

...and me, i just wanted a beer!

Hold on a second. Your father is an organ transplant recipient and you rant about the lack of good prizes in a fundraising triathlon run by an organ donation organization?

No, it's still a race. It just has a different winner. One who doesn't whine.

Hahaha that is one of my favorite episodes!

I have nothing else to add to this thread.

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__________________________________________________
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see posts above this....... i didn't participate in a fundraising triathlon run by an organ donation organization.

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Tim

The question becomes, why not?

well obviously it was because of the crappy awards!

(if i have to put that one in pink, you should remove yourself from the room)

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Tim

When did USACycling start allowing cash prizes for Cat 5s?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

+1

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__________________________________________________
Hunter Robinson
http://www.twitter.com/el_slice
http://www.elslicerideco.com
Sponsored by: http://www.92fifty.com

I'm not sure, but I did my first road race last year, and also won cash as a Cat 5

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__________________________________________________
Hunter Robinson
http://www.twitter.com/el_slice
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Sponsored by: http://www.92fifty.com

In the races I direct, I examine the ROI for the average finisher...not the award winners...I want the person that comes in 180th to feel like they got their money's worth...In one case, we offer a finisher's prize to all runners that cross the line (everyone that signs up gets a shirt, hat, swag bag, etc)....all that said, top runners are a valuable commodity and have a place in the formula in terms of media impressions and general "buzz"...so, we do what we can to offer overall merchandise awards (no cash) that are somewhat enticing...but, we have spent more resources building up the reputation of the event in order to give it "bragging rights" for the fast folks...

At my smaller races, we do things like shot glasses or coffee mugs for AG awards...and merchandise for overall...

IMO trophies have no place but kids races...I have boxes of little gold men and have vowed never to be responsible for the distribution of more...

OK. Well, I am glad to hear that your father is doing well. I hope people don't give too hard of time over this - your original post does have some validity. I gave up on expecting good prizes at bike races a long time ago. Haven't placed in any tris yet so a non issue. I look at races as a cover charge to kick my own ass. It doesn't make any sense - I realize that.

You are assuming I race in the USA.

For what it's worth...I like the idea of beer for AG awards...we are working on exactly that for an upcoming race...

+2 on this! Drink that thing man!

I've won money at mountain bike races - this seems pretty common even going 5 deep, sometimes more.

I won a huge bottle of maple syrup winning a local 5k run - that was awesome!

I came 3rd overall at the "Canadian age-group duathalon champs" (whatever that means!) and only got recognized as 2nd in my age group with a generic medal - I guess that's why it's called an age-group race.

As others have mentioned, if you want money, race road or mountain bike.

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My apologies. Where else besides the US do they have a Cat 5 category?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Nowhere. Any country outside the US there's only Cat 1.

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I won a 5k with about 40 participants and got a voucher for a free pair of sneaks. I also won a slightly larger 5k that gave me a voucher for a free pair of New Balance shoes. I was totally psyched about both.

Like in Lake Wobegon, right?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Lake Wobegon is in MN.

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I got a crappy award at work the other day. It was for performance achieved about 8 months ago. I was 120% of my sales quota for the month.
The award was not timely. It was a shitty piece of glass with my name on it.
I work from home, so it's not like I am going to display it on my cubicle in the office.
WAAAh- Waaaah - Nobody shook my hand. It was delivered via fedex with some form letter attached to it. Why doesn't anybody care?

how much do you have to pay the company to show up at work every day?

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http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

You missed my point in your anger. I didn't ask what the team who won your particular division got - what did the WINNERS get? There were only two: one male, and one female.

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I kinda like Paulo's answer.

I'm in Canuckistan. It's an ex-communist republic near the Arctic circle.
Our rules for Cat 5 are different I think.
We have to earn placing points to move up to Cat 4. I think the USA is a 10 race rule?
Here.. if you suck, you are forever stuck in Cat 5.
Thankfully, I moved beyond that crash-fest quickly.

Somewhere in this massive string is a question of "why don't tri's have awards like bike crits?" I ask this also. Someone mentioned insurance cost as a possibility., I have no idea. I am a volunteer RD (read - other full time job) and have RD'd running races and tris. Last year I also was fed up and vowed to start my own race series along the lines of "show up, pay $10, race, and if you win you get $$." Grassrootsmultisport.com - I got a website, course layout, schedule - all of it. My sticking point was insurance. My event HQ site, a church, required that I have insurance to limit their liability, same with the city whose jurisdiction I was in. My only options were to certify with USAT or USCF, there are apparently no other options to get event insurance. I did get one lead that thought insurance might cost $300 (per event) but that was from another state so it did not pan out. I for one would love to know how crit races can afford their payouts and remain solvent.

So here is my (very rough) math:

I live in a major metro area with many events to choose from - usually two or three each weekend. So lets say 50 or so participants, maybe a hundred. Casual paticipants (i.e. - not winners) will NOT come back after the first event because I am not offering shirts, age group medals, etc. so the "hardcore' group who think they have a shot at money will have to make up the race field. $10 a throw times 50 folks = $500. 1st, 2nd, 3rd payouts across some sort of demographic profile (M, F, old, young, etc.) lets assume at $20, $15, $10 per. Maybe a run prime for the better runners and a bike hill prime for the better bikers/combined athletes adds another $30 or so to the payout. Now we are close to $350-$400 in payouts - without insurance. Already negative. Don't take this the wrong way, but even at a net profit of $100 it's not worth my time - hell I probably SPEND more than that an hour on average. Donations and sponsors help some, but at the end of the day this is their marketing budget and they also want to see an ROI. If you jack the numbers up (over 100 and beyond) it has to be somewhere north of 150 participants to make it break even. That's a big number for where I live, most local events top out around a hundred or so due to market penetration.

As a bottom line - I am still up for running the series if someone can (constructively) tell me how to make it at least cost neutral. At this point I am not willing to spend $$ out of my pocket to support some other racer's habit...

i hear you. i've been involved in putting on 2 races, both in canada, and although i can relate, i don't have a lot of easy answers.

1-first race i did was pretty much solo - i was working as a beach lifeguard and we started up a swim/run duathlon. our beach was in a city park, with great running trails. classic old-school stuff - i was 17 years old when i started organizing it, and it went on for several years. we charged something like 15 bucks to race, and people got a t-shirt, lots of lunch, draw prizes and cash prizes. food was all donated, so were some prizes. 'staff' were all lifeguards or our buddies - we were on the clock anyway, so we didn't care. city never fussed with insurance, so that was huge, and they let us in to city works to steal pylons and stuff, and did our photocopying for us. also huge. great fun, that race.

2-i also got involved in putting on a bigger race (a tri) while i was doing my MA. in a city of 1 million. swim was in a pool, but the bike was the killer: asking the city to shut down municipal intersections was big. we needed cops controlling ALL major intersections, and those are off-duty cops helping you for cash. so you literally start looking at a map and deciding where you can afford for your race to go. 8-lap bike, anyone? you bet! tshirts were also an expense, plus we did chip timing at that one. chip times are nice, but these days everyone's got a GPS or a sports watch, and they're taking most of their own splits anyway. this race was more stress to put on, and in the end i honestly don't believe it offered a necessarily "better" racing experience/'product.'

anyway, maybe you can ditch the church? maybe the muncipality has some park space, or a local air force base or car racing oval . . . something!?! i honestly believe the sport needs more races like the one you're proposing . . . it desperately needs them. but there's no question that they're getting tougher to put on.

-mike

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I've picked up a few AG or Cat wins here and there, but the only overall win I've ever got earned me 2 things:

1) a cheap generic "gold"-ish medal, whatever
2) a PDF of the results table with my name on the first line (!)

Guess which is more valuable to me, yet costs nothing extra since they're gonna do it for everyone anyway? Even if they replaced #1 with some sort of schwag, meh... I've got plenty of schwag already, but #2 is without peer since I'm only a little better than MOP at most bigger races. Sure, a bottle of tequila would be awesome, but other than that, winning is it's own reward... just ask Charlie Sheen (sorry, couldn't resist).

I know, I'm a proud drinker but not so much with tequila, and look at the size of this mother!

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quite right, i agree

When I used to run a small local kayak race series, I'd give the winners free entry into the next race in the series as well as awards---- that way the really good people kept coming, and the B level people kept coming to compare themselves to the A level men/women. Much like lady's night at a bar that's usually a sausage-fest.

In business terms you have a money side and subsidy side, subsidize the folk that are awesome (which medals/awards are supposed to be doing) and make the money off the masses.

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There's tequila in this picture? I must be distracted by something else.

The greatest race prize I got was a bottle of wine with custom labels for the race. Much better than a medal, shirt, or flower. Shared the wine with my wife. Wine gone that night. Good night indeed.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

The one on the right is the wife. :)

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Which right, mine or yours? Should I apologize?

Because, umm, never mind. If I keep going I will have to apologize. (Pink inference here hopefully not needed)

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
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LOL! Good point. Picture right, my left. The bird in the yellow skirt. That after party lasted all afternoon with free kegs of Corona and tequila shots. I was so hammered by 5pm, I passed out on the couch and Jamie went to dinner with our friends in the pic.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Yes, we desperately need these races. What would be great is if USAT would sponsor them, or get some of the tri-related companies to help. I'm not thinking a top-down effort, more like discounted insurance (perhaps subsidized by larger races) with the intent of making it easier to put on small, cheap local races.

Small, competitive races would really improve the level of triathlon in the US, and especially if some of them are draft-legal get more people into the ITU pipeline.

Why aren't triathlon clubs putting on these "no frills" under the radar races?

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I know Tri Club San Diego does, and I for one am super grateful for it. Awesome, awesome series. Then again, TCSD is enormous, so it has the resources to do put on such races for very low cost.

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The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock

There was a 24 hour race series in Michigan that I did that 3rd place was a set of pint glasses and a beer pitcher. The following year first place was a bath robe. All quality prizes which I have used for years while all the medals and plaques remain collecting dust. Beats the cat 4 primes last year of winning expired GU product. Just couldn't get into Gingerbread flavored Gu in September.

2 big reasons:

1) cost - the police are expensive,
2) permits - town are getting very protective of "their" beaches.

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I find it funny that towns will charge for small club races but not charge for big camps which use beaches and clog up roads with big bike packs and run groups.


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I find it sad - but the bigger issue is that they won't ISSUE the permit - regardless of cost.

more mediocre?

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that IS what the WINNERS got.. i wasn't talking about division. but the division's got the same thing as the WINNERS

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Tim

You guys avg'd 6:41 min/mile for 10 miles and finished a half hour behind first place...you want more than a crappy necklace for that?

It's quite a dilemma you are in, you need worthy prizes for external validation, but aren't fast enough to win the prizes at the races that offer them. Not sure there is an easy answer for you, but it seems like you are going to struggle to find satisfaction in this sport. Easiest thing would be to do what most of the rest of us do and feed off the energy of the dreams we crush along the way.

due diligence. well done.

now go back and read where i was upset over the first place team not getting THEIR 'cooler than the rest' award for WINNING.

it seems as though the custom for 'most racing' has a podium step for the 3 that finish first, each with their own diminishing in coolness factor award, but if you are cool with a different custom, then that's cool with me.

and i would say after a run of nearly 9hours...... 10minutes off second and 30 of first isn't too bad. but that is getting to close to details i suppose.

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Tim

I know what you mean. At some races it seems like very little thought is given to the awards. I recall a few years back racing a duathlon. Paid like $75. Was the overall winner. Had to wait about 3 hours for the tri being held with it to finish for the awards to be given out. The award was a cheesy medal that probably cost them less than $2. Just a plain generic medal. Didn't have the name of the event or anything at all inscribed on it.

I do a race series and the winners get a "trophy" consisting of a clear plastic stand with a piece of paper stuck in it containing the award info. Probably costs less than $1. However, they do have a nice awards banquet/party to go with it.

Other races, even really small ones, sometimes have great awards.

If you do enough races it all seems to even out in the end.

I just like getting the award. What it turns out to be really isn't that important to me.

I don't recall ever getting cash. Unless it was a large amount, it wouldn't be that interesting to me. First place in a 50K trail race a few weeks ago got $500. Second and all other award winners just got medals. I got a medal. If I had received $10 I probably wouldn't even remember by next year, but I can look at the medal and remember.

I'd rather have the cheesy medal than a gift certificate to someplace I wouldn't go. I won my AG in a race this year and got a GC to some crappy restaurant. I gave it away.

Anyway, just be grateful you got something. I've done plenty of races where the only award was for the overall winner.

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Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!

just talked to the first place team......... they were equally disappointed! so i guess my thoughts are not so singular...

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Tim

It will be interesting to see how many fewer teams (if any) they get next year now that everyone realizes what crappy prizes they hand out.

Also, with regards to the 2 hour wait, just be glad it isn't a 70.3 race where they make you sit til 5 PM after you finish at noon so you can get your pint of syrup. An obvious attempt to get people to stay an extra night, IMO.

I have been a vendor at many triathlons and have donated awards for overall male and female winners. Typically I will have a hooded sweatshirt or an extra large beach towel embroidered with the race name, date, and "overall winner" on it. I go to local races in WA and OR with my little Tribabe booth where I sell t-shirts, sun visors, etc, usually I am the only vendor or one of a few, it's not hard to miss me.

Anyway, I have had 2 people total thank me for the awards, one of which was my good friend. The only other person to thank me was a guy who won the first triathlon he had ever competed in and he was so excited he came over and chatted with me about his race for quite a while.

So if I am a good business person (I'm not) then why do I keep supplying awards to races? Because I like to support events and help provide a little extra something special at an event that I am at. I'm not getting anything back on my investment except my own personal satisfaction that I contributed something to our community.

Race directors tend to focus on the logistics for the masses for a reason, but in my opinion, it doesn't take much to help keep the winners happy too. But if you are one of those winners who are looking for something more, you might think for a minute about the other side and why things are the way the are...

Here's the cold, hard truth about awards in this sport.

The race directors, the fans, the other 'racers', don't care about them. If you are at the point edge of the spear in triathlon its important, but for the average racer they are going into the race knowing they don't have a shot at the overall. Most go into a race knowing what time we will get within +/- 5 minutes, so you know fairly well where you will place if you look at the past years standings. Then there are the skewed AG's. In my group (M35-39) you have to be at least top 10 overall to win AG, and it seems like at races you are either in an ultra competive AG with fast people, or you get a medal for showing up.

Contrast that to cycling, where there can be a situation where an average Cat racer can win and suddenly prizes are more important because it is attainable for everyone in the field, or has the perception of that.

I'm not really knocking triathlon, but its so predictable that giving out awards is not going to attract much more to the race. As a MOP'er, there's no magic scenario that is going to lead me to win, and that goes to the other 90% of the field as well. If it does happen it will be through years of training and be gradual. I would like to for the race to have some legitimacy and give out something, but from a marketing perspective its money not spent well.

It just occurred to me that I found a dollar once while racing. I stopped and picked it up. Got second in my AG (stopping did not change my results). I got a little trophy and a dollar for that race. No idea how much the first place guy found along the road.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
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From the original post:

"BUSTED THEIR A$$ and WON the event something to be proud/happy to receive!"

Why are we always so quick to assume that the fastest guys at the race actually trains more and works harder. Ever considered that he's just more talented? He raced for less total time, doesn't that to a certain extend make his race effort easier. Also consider that the fastest guy I've seen are often pro's and don't have real jobs, wife, kids, etc. They are free to train 20+ hours a week. Us normal people are limited to 12-14 hours in order to keep a balance in life. But when I'm training, I'm still training hard.. on hard days at least.

Sorry, but I train pretty damn hard and suffer really hard in races. I'm not as talented, but I' at least fast enough t be on the cusp of being "elite" at medium size races and can win or be top 3 in a lot of smaller events. In my first race this season, if I had raced elite instead of age group, I would have gotten some cash. But instead, despite a poor swim and slow transitions, I still managed the faster AG'r time... and got a spiffy semi-mass produced medal... that I waited 2 hour for.

I'm not bitter. I'm quite pleased with the results of losing weight and having a better training plan. Just pointing out that some of us are still trianing pretty hard... but I will conceed that hte faster guy still deserves teh prize.

What annoys me is when awards ceremonies take 40 minutes because there are 20 age groups, awarded 3 deep.... which at some events amounts to 1/3 of the field getting awards. I guess that draws them in. But it's a little rediculous that in the 2 or 3 most competitive age groups, you can finish in the top 5% and not medal, while some duathlete finishing in the top 30% and gets an award. I've been as high as 15th out of 600 including relay teams and women... and failed to medal.

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I did a race last year, formula one duathlon, just for fun (Ok, it was the wife's idea). I'm not much of a duathlete. I finished 11th overall and 4th in my age group. No medal that day for me.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Okay... so you're changing your anger from what you got as 3rd place in the relay to outage on behalf of the race winners?

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
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Get your FIX today?

First (and only, so far) duathlon I did 2nd in AG and 7th overall. I was pleased as pie for my first attempt at that kind of race. Sat around during the incredibly long awards ceremony as all the tri people got their awards. When they finished up the tri and did the du awards, I think they gave out top 3 overall and that was it. Was the du field smaller? Sure but you don't put on two events at the same time and then completely shaft one of the groups, especially when the race pamphlet lists the awards and brackets but says nothing about the du people possibly getting less.

dude, since nobody else has been kind enough to clue you in yet, it was a RELAY-ONLY race. one of those long-distance point-to-point multi-person-relay deals.

-mike

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____________________________________
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http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Part of this is the homogenization of the sport that has occurred over time - they are all the same whether they are running, biking, or triathlon.

I remember back in the '80s when a race director friend called the night before the race in a panic. You see, while he was busy making sure that the post race clam bake was all in proper order he got a call from the potter who was doing to custom hand thrown pottery for the awards. The awards were still in the kiln and wouldn't be ready 'til after midnight. So, he offer me free entry if I would go pick up the awards and drive across the state for a 7:00 am start. Back then I was eating P B & J 3 meals a day, so of course I said yes because that meant the post race meal was free!


The awards were so awesome that I raced hard to make sure I got one.


It seems that back then there were some simply awesome races because the director wanted it to be special for each and every person, and along with that the awards were a big deal. They cared.


Now, the same company does most of the races. There are a lot of races, and they have it down pat. However, you can't mass produce passion and caring. So, it is homogenized.

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David
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Well, when you factor in the medical expenses, maybe not. :-)

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clm
Nashville, TN
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They haven't asaik.

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clm
Nashville, TN
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I teach a tri class, they all want to win that first medal/trophy. I know some of you will not believe this but I have Inspired more people by having the triathletes bring in the years trophies and display them in the fitness center. People see them and want to get in shape and go for it. If you have been a good athlete all your life these things probably do not mean much to you. But the people I want to see start training are the everyday out of shape group.
Myself a $20 dollar gift certificate does not mean anything to me. Hell I don't do this for the money : ) But to the average joe watch their face when they win their first medal/trophy they show it to their friends, kids, and those people might just jump into the sport.

If they let Cat 5s in a stage race it is usually as part of a combined 4/5 field, which can have cash prizes.