Come on now, is that really possible? Somebody's got to make a jump around the 4000' mark, it'd be too hard not to. I'm surprised Palomar is even open. Is it definitely open? I havn't been able to get off this here mountain range since Monday, all highways closed.

Valley Center / Palomar Mtn
Chains required above 4,500' on Palomar Mtn
Lake Wohlford--City of Escondido section-closed--mud and debris-potential rock slides
Ivy Dell dip closed--flooding
Cole Grade Road closed--flooding

http://www.sdcdpw.org/#ROAD

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"It rises just about 4000' vertically from its start at about 1200' above sea level"

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/palomar.html

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That means at that chains are required on the road, where we are riding, currently as of today.

Warm weather all week should melt it.

remember that you are at a higher elevation, Palomar should be clear by Monday.

<< Somebody's got to make a jump around the 4000' mark, it'd be too hard not to.

well since some of us racing a half marathon the day before, who knows what will be left in the legs. The thing about climbs like Palomar, you have to set your own tempo going up. It hurts almost as much to go up slower than you are used to as it does to go hard. So everyone will have to just go there own speed up Palomar and then we regroup at Mother's Cafe for hot chocolate at the top. Come prepared for cold weather though. Coming down will still be cold with the windchill. Air temp will probably be about 50 degrees on the mountain, plus the windchill.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

I thought Monday was the 17th!

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thanks

sorry, couldn't help it

:)

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Did someone check conditions of the Mt?

Is the ride still going on? If so, I'll probably be coming down with a couple of guys.

Who's showing up??

I'm envious. You guys have fun. Don't worry about the rest of us. As if!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I'll be there, and Mike, be nice to see you there as well.

There are probably others coming, Mike has more info on that.

Weather looks very good, high of 70 in the afternoon on the mountain, high 50's for most of the ride in the AM, and sunny:

http://www.wunderground.com/...Forecast?query=92060

I might cruise. Does anybody know what traffic is like on the 5 at that time. I'm not used to being on those freeways on a weekday at those times.

Its a holiday for many, so the 15 will likely be smooth all day

Outside of government employees and banks, how many of you have the day off? Nobody, but me, at my work does.

I'll be there, Pooks will be there, did anyone check with Mike Byrd? He hasn't chimed in so I assume he has to work. Jaylew, make sure you look at the map at the top of this thread, we aren't starting at the base of Palomar, make sure you go to the right starting point in Escondido. Sojo, if you are coming from Arrowhead, you'd be better off coming down the 215 to the 15 to Escondido. Email me if you need specific directions. Of course anyone else is welcome to show up if they want. We'll have a couple of regrouping stops along the way.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Plumb-fast Mike wrote: Of course anyone else is welcome to show up if they want.

I checked with the airlines, and can't get a flight over there and back for less than half a grand, or I'd be there...but, that's my entire race entry fee pool for the year. I'd want to show you guys just how much wheezing and groaning an old man can put out while actually surviving the climb. Seriously, though, it makes me want to go up to the NC mountains and spend some time on those 7-14 mile climbs. Nothing seems to work wonders for all-around riding like long climbs with other riders. Have a blast!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

We are lucky with some uncommonly warm weather on the mountain tomorrow:

In the 50's to 60's: http://www.weather.com/...Hour=6&begDay=17

Mike, I just figured out why you said to take the "15 instead". I didn't intend to type 5 in my previous post, the 5 is way out of my way. I'm struggling to figure out how long it'll take me to get down there. I've driven there on Thanksgiving, and traffic was heavy. I drove out there on Christmas Eve, I think, and it was really light. Now HWY 18 is closed due to undermining of the road and slides, and I have to take an alternate route that I'm not familiar with, the 330, to the 30, to the 10, to the 215, over to the 15. I see you've been elected for something, though I'm not sure what, so it's in my best interest to go down there and make friends tommorrow. Don't wait up for me if I'm late, I'll just go to the base of the hill and wait for you guys if things get crazy on the freeways. Will you be riding the entire hill, like past both Albertos, or Humbertos or whateverbertos taco shops, or are you coming in the backside and just doing that last ~ 7 mile section of Palomar?

Mike indicated that the ride is a 50 miler, 3.5 hours of actual ride time with the mountain, so probably 4 hours total with stops at the top and the base.

215 merges into the 15 when heading south.

we'll be doing the entire climb, 11.4 miles+/-. We'll start with the Lake Wohlford climb right off the bat, then down past Harrah's Casino to the bottom of Palomar (the taco shop). We'll probably regroup there before we start up Palomar. If we start the ride at 9:30, we'll probably get to the bottom of Palomar at 10:30 or so.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Don't know if any of you guys are still at home, but if so, don't wait up for me, I got up toooo late.

Mike,

I was in Mammoth this weekend getting in on the great snow up there. I'll be there on the 30th for sure.

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

Mike, you and Joe missed a great ride. The weather was awesome if not a little too hot. It was cool gettting a chance to meet Gary, Ashburn, and Pooks(though I didn't know it was him until afterwards) from the board. That really is an awesome climb! So much for it being an easy training ride. Right out of the gate we did another climb(I don't remember what it was called) and Plumb and Tingley start hammering. What ever happened to a warmup, guys? I'm definitely glad I went down as it showed how much I've improved. I went up Palomar about 10 minutes faster than last year on less effort than last year

Jason,

I'm pretty sure the climb you are referring to is Lake Wohlford. Probably pretty tough to start from the dog park. We usually start about 7-10 miles further down the road and get a good warm up.

I totally expect Plumb and Gary to kill Palomar on the 30th. I'm hoping another friend comes down from LA to ride with Pooks and me. Hopefully he doesn't bring his girl because she'll probably beat us too....

let's see, two weeks to get in shape...I think it can be done!

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TheBikeRacer.com

600 seconds....

No, no, no....whatever you do, put the PowerCranks on as soon as you get them. Two weeks will be plenty of time for you to get used to them!! ;)

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

Felt much better than that day on GMR. No breaks on the side of the mountain this time ;)

I went 1:15:50. I'm guessing I could go 1:08-1:11 in a TT if I were fresh.

I don't know that I will make it on the 30th, though and if I do, I certainly won't be very rested.

All this talk of a bunch of guys hammering uphill when the temperature is just a little too warm...it's going to send me into a rit of fealous jage! (ala Peter Sellers)

I really wish I could get out there so all of you could drop me like a bad habit. ;-(

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Just FWIW for other riders that fool with power meters:

My bike and I weighed about 187 pounds with full kit, spare, tools, bottles, etc.

From the 76 sign to the stop sign at the top ("store to store") I had 1:27:54 total time. Average power was 227 watts (normalized power was 229). That's a pretty decent tempo for me -- a little harder than I could ride in a half IM.

My lowest gear was 34x23. When I go back there, I'll have 34x25. I think I would have had an easier time of it with the lower gearing. I had to stand a lot over the last 3-4 miles to hold my power average up.

Anyway -- thanks to the other folks for a great outing!

certainly was a great day to be out on the mountain, probably upper 70's for a high. Jason had a great ride, thanks for bringing a crew down with you, you guys made the ride.

Pooks and I both had a rough day, don't underestimate how much racing a half marathon the day before will take out of you.

January 30th is next up, be there or be square.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Mike,

I heard a rumor you didn't ride back to the dog park, but instead hitched a ride with a certain someone. Actually, you and Pooks hitched a ride?

Saving your legs for the 30th, huh? ;)

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

I'm thinking of doing the 30th as a big day by starting in Rancho Santa Fe and doing a round trip, with 30 min run to follow. Anybody interested?

Oh, BTW -- Mike finished 7th out of 200-something in his AG in this very competitive half marathon. Pretty good for a guy with no cartilage in his knees. ;-)

well not exactly, we planted a car there for a reason. Dave and I drove back to the start and Gina rode there since she started her ride at the bottom of the mountain. I kind of thought my legs would be shot, and they were. Just trying to pace myself for the week. I think Ves has been following this and decided to really make life hard by announcing our Wednesday ride is basically going to be the Henshaw loop, which takes in the bottom half of Palomar and Mesa Grande. Thanks Ves ;-)
Then if I have any legs left, my first club ride of the year on Thursday and brick run after that. Can you tell this is a bike week?

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Good deal. I need more time to train with you guys.

See you Thursday morning. It's time to start waking up early again!!

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

What/where/when/how far is the Thursday ride?

Rick,

We meet behind B&L Bikes at 6am Tues/Thurs. Head up the coast to Starbuck's in Carlsbad. If time permit, some will head up to Oceanside and back. If we go to Starbucks, it's about 26 miles, Oceanside, maybe 36??

Speed varies within the group.

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

Jason (& co.) was an animal - I hung on at 300-330w (for the most part) for 35 mins into the ride and then blew up and limped in. I could barely manage 220w at the top. My legs were toast. I guess thats what I get for not climbing, EVER, in the past couple of years. One thing I can't get from a trainer is Palomar efforts! Geez, what was I thinking. I'm racing a flat TT on Sunday, but will give this another go on the 30th, maybe my legs will realize what hills are by then. I should have been OK with the 36/23, but it was tough!

And maybe I will figure out why my rear tire was so sketchy coming down. What PSI and tires were you guys using?

Sounds like you're saying it would be stupid for a lightweight like me to attempt Palomar with a 39x25, right? And when I say "lightweight," I'm referring to my ability, not my body mass.

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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones

Many riders (like Mike and Jason) were using a 25 or greater, I used a 23 but could have easily used a 25 or even 27.

I will use a 23 on the 30th, as long as I pace it I should be OK, some steep sections though, low cadence stuff.

As I said, my 34x23 (roughly equal to 39x26.5) was not low enough, and I'm in half-decent bike shape. That climb was very nearly a PR for power output over that much time.

For reference, I do a 40k TT in about 1:05. Anybody slower than that (and 160 pounds or more) ought to have at least 39x27 -- if you want to keep cadence above 75. More powerful (FOP-type), lighter riders will do fine with a 39x23-25.

Or you can go all scientific-like, like I do. At about 206-208 pounds depending on the wind, and 240 with bike/clothes/water, just go with a 25 cog. That and 6 watts will really impress the ladies.

If you're not used to descending fast, I bet you were using your rear brakes a little too hard. I have a simple bit of guidance about braking on twisty descents: Touch the rear brake and die. A lesson I have twice learned the hard way. Roughly 50 stitches and three broken bones.

When you're descending fast and braking, so much of your weight is on the front wheel that the rear brake will only cause the rear tire to skid and slide. Nearly 100% of your stopping power is in the front.

You have to use the front brake, and do so before each curve. You have to brake when going straight, and then just drag them a little in the curves. It's hard to resist the urge to brake in the curves, but you really have to avoid it at all cost.

FWIW -- I had 23 Michelin Pro Race clinchers at ~105 pounds. But I don't think that had anything to do with your experience.

You should take comfort in knowing that you had a higher power output than me -- and over a longer period of time. ;-)

This was your karma for last spring when you and Plumb destroyed me in the last 10 miles of that big ride we did with Slowman.

Not even. Please for the Love of all that is Good and Light, nobody avoid this because they don't think they are strong enough, light enough, or geared low enough. Everybody who keeps pedaling will slay the dragon of Pala. I believe it averages out to a 6.5% grade, with no serious walls demanding extreme anaerobic debts to be paid in exchange for a pass back to milder slopes. I"ll probably go between 44 x 18,19,21 the whole way, except on the slight downhill, so yeah, 39 x 25 is plenty.

Depends on your climbing style, but if you're a "lightweight" rider by your definition I'd throw on a 12-27.

FWIW, I used a 12-27 cassette w/ a 38 small ring as I like to alternate between the 24 and 27 during a long climb and in general prefer to spin my way up.

Not even. Please for the Love of all that is Good and Light, nobody avoid this because they don't think they are strong enough, light enough, or geared low enough. Everybody who keeps pedaling will slay the dragon of Pala. I believe it averages out to a 6.5% grade, with no serious walls demanding extreme anaerobic debts to be paid in exchange for a pass back to milder slopes. I"ll probably go between 44 x 18,19,21 the whole way, except on the slight downhill, so yeah, 39 x 25 is plenty.

Then again, remember that Joe has done a climbing ride almost every day since like, July, so he's a bit of a moutain goat these days ;)

the funny thing about gearing is that you can keep putting easier gears on, but all they do is allow to you go up easier, not necessarily faster. Of course yesterday after my hamstrings started to burn from the race the day before, I was very appreciative for having a 36 x 25 set up. On the bottom half of the climb, the first 5 miles I was holding good pace and riding mostly a 36 x 21/23 and putting out close to 300 watts. The top half was a different story. Under normal circumstances that pace was just about right, power output was good, heart rate was right on, for the lower half.

Dan, I hope you're cleaned off the dust from your Manderic!!!

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Details, details. I guess this makes a difference, (although it's more like "every day since July" minus the last 5 days of Dec and first 14 days of Jan) and the fact that I know I can bail out to my 30 inner ring as well. You can always sabotage your own bike if you are hurting too much, bring a knife if you aren't sure about your gearing ;) I have a 12-27 on a 700c mavic open pro wheel that I'm not using and could bring if anybody doesn't feel like spending $50 on a cassette for one ride. Be forewarned that I'll fill the tube with rocks though.

This is gearing up to sound like it could be an actual race. I'm stoked. Jason's obviously in good shape, Gary's talking about holding 300-330 watts for 35 minutes, which equates to what, about 300 watts for the whole climb paced correctly? MikeP sounds like he's shooting for 300 watts or so, if I read the above post right. MikeB was making me push 280-300 just to hang on around Christmas after having not trained much, I think. I havn't heard if the ringer (Francois) is still coming, anybody know? If I had any "real life" friends to add to the mix I'd invite them, but alas, there is only Monkeybump/Lutz, who has transcended sport and moved to the higher plane of couch potatoism (not related to taoism).

According to Analyticcycling, at 11.7 miles and a 7% avg grade, with a 300w avg and 195lbs for the rider/bike/helmet/clothes/gear/water (fully loaded), you could ride it in 1:10.

I ran the worn Hutchison (use it on the trainer daily) at 120 PSI, and it felt slippery.

I come from a MTB racing background and can usually fly down hills on the road, but for some reason the rear of the bike didn't "stick" like I was used to.

Of course this was like my 4th time on the road with it.

I may use a different tire and 110 PSI next time.

Yeah, I've been playing on that site too. However, I've been typing in that it's a 6.475% grade, which it would indeed be if it's exactly a 4,000' rise. 313w avg., @82kg.(minimal fluids, gear, and no cookies the night before, well, maybe one or two), has me breaking 60' (i've always been a dreamer), while 287w avg. would be 65' and 263w avg. points to a 70' ascent. This of course is unless it's windy. I love that site, it provides countless hours of virtual dreaming. I think we're the same weight Gary, where are you getting 195 from, just a generic number?

By the way Gary, the Vredestein Tri-Comp's that Jason was on are an outstanding tire if you are cyber-shopping for a set. They'll descend at 130-145psi with excellent confidence.

Hey Joe,

Will you PowerCranks have a triple??? ;) And I'm pretty sure that the ride on the 24th was my first or second ride since SOMA (Oct. 31) - so definitely no training before then.

And Mike Plumb, I'm not going to do GMR on the 29th. I've spent way too much time in my truck the last month and half driving back and forth from Mammoth. I'm going to stay local on the 29th and ride around town.

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

I'll see you guys out there tomorrow morning. Last week was my first club ride of the year and I've been sick with a horrible cold since then (a sign from the tri-gods??). I'm chomping at the bit to get out there again.

See you in the dark at B&L.

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______________________________________________
Father Kevin

http://www.churchofcycling.org

what time do they pull out from B&L these days? I've heard conflicting times.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

<< And Mike Plumb, I'm not going to do GMR on the 29th.

I'm not going to either, not since they moved the club duathlon to the 29th. Hopefully that won't take too much away from riding Palomar the next day.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Joe,

Baldy is tough. Mike and I rode it with Jaylew's crew last fall and we were zigzagging up that thing. That's crazy.

You do realize that the only reason I want you on PC's is because that's the only way i'll be able to keep you in sight.

Mike - I think we got off around 6:10 Tuesday morning. It's still DARK. Officially, the ride starts at 6.

Hmmm....I'm thinking about the club race also. But that means you get to kick my butt twice in January in two days. That won't be good for the 'ol ego!

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

Yikes! I wasn't counting on that. It definitely turns the 30th into a long ride-with-big-climb day instead of a race.

See you the 29th. Should be fast and furious.

as I pmed you, there is a very very big chance that I will be interviewing for a job the friday before or the monday after in which case I won't come. I am already interviewing the following week end.
If there is a chance for me to make it then I will. But job first...if I count on racing to pay bills, I am in trouble...gonna have to join tibbs's team :-)

Looks like rain on the 30th on Palomar:

Sunrise: 6:44 am UV Index: 4, Moderate Sunset: 5:17 pm
Moonrise: 10:25 pm Phase: Waning Gibbous Moonset: 9:39 am
Averages and Records for Jan 30 Sunday:
Scattered Showers

http://www.intellicast.com/...av=none&pid=none

That'll only make it more fun to ride. Well, at least on the way up.

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Increasing awareness for suffers of DGS (Diminished Gluteal Syndrome).

Are you going to make it? By the way, I checked out accuweather.com's page and they are predicting it to be sunny on the 30th.

I would like to be there, but my team may have other plans for me. I've just started going out to Palomar with a teammate on Friday's to do repeats and it was pretty nice. The weather predictions have been quite variable, but even if it were to it hit, it won't hit hard.

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Increasing awareness for suffers of DGS (Diminished Gluteal Syndrome).