What's the difference between a pro triathlete and a large pizza?

A large pizza can feed a family of four.

-Jot

LOL I am sure it does not cover their medical bills , dental and all else. If so not much left after.

---

__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ

Speak for yourself son. I can drill a large pizza in about 20 minuntes time, but thats probably why i cant lose that last 5 lbs or so. But damn pizza is THE BOMB.

---

Jonathan
USA Triathlon Coach/Adventure Extraordinaire

This is my next major topic once the Pro Drafting at 70,3 World Champs has been dealt with but I will speak of it now too;

I have finished in the top 50 Professionals at 70.3 Ironman for the last two years (37th 2008, 48th 2009) I have not won any money at all in professional racing.

I have no salary/bonuses from sponsors. I receive no money from the sport. I am not funded. In England sponsorship is a joke. Comparable athletes to myself will typically have 10 product sponsors on websites in the US.(I do not know if this includes any salary/bonuses) The only free sponsorship I get is from whasp gels, the others are discounts. http://www.tritom.co.uk

In truth, professional triathlon is not a professional sport. I work to earn a living. Going to the Worlds cost me 800GBP of my own money. I would not see that back if I finished 8th in the World. Prize money is a joke and has not changed in 15+years.

Incidently the WTCs pro license is going to wipe the legs from beneath most pros. I know I can not afford a 750USD pro license then pay 300USD to race at the Worlds. When just getting there costs me 1200USD. I will not and can not afford to pay 2,000USD to race in a corrupt World Championships - see posts about Pro Drafting at World Champs or see my blog - http://www.tritom.co.uk

---

http://www.tritom.co.uk
Pro Triathlete

My guess is 90% of the posters here make more than the average pros.

I'd like to hope they are all smart enough to know the sport is a huge sacrifice in the chase for glory.

There, I fixed it for you.

The "average" pro makes almost nothing, if I understand correctly. I would hazard a guess that there are maybe a couple dozen in the world who make a large amount of money (say $100,000 per year?) from the sport. But that is just a guess.

I also don't see anything wrong with that.

A talanted young triathlete figured that out about 20 years ago, and decided bicycle racing was where the big bucks were. He did pretty well. You may have heard of him, Lance Armstrong.

---

"It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster"

Whatever they are able to earn from their day job?

---

----------------------------------------------------------

If it's a YMCA pool, the lightning wanders around the locker room naked for an hour, then uses the blow dryer on its junk. -lunchbox

Here's the breakdown:

There are a handful at the very top who are living the truly Professional triathlon life and making a very good living directly off the sport of triathlon - $6 figure+ earnings. Athletes such as, Craig Alexander and such. It's a small group - perhaps with a maximum size of 10 in the whole world.

It then starts to drop of pretty preciptously from there. You then have a modest sized group that is covering expenses to doing "OK". But that's it. They live pretty precariously. Maybe 40 - 50 world wide in this group.

It then drops down to a group that really makes pocket change( a few thousand dollars a year) it's not really a living. How can you live off of that?Typically these folks supplement their income/needs from other sources - more have full time jobs that you think, totally supportive spouse/partner( big with the Pro women) or family. In this last group you'll find people who have finished top 5 in IM races around the world and in some cases at IMH as well. Perhaps 50 - 100 plus in this group.

Below, this there is the group that makes nothing from the sport of triathlon, but they are still good enough according to the current standards to get a Pro card.

It's interesting what the new WTC Pro Rules are going to do. I am guessing the all of those in the last group and a good portion of those in the 3rd group, may just start racing as age-groupers, or just pass completely on any WTC races next year.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I kind of envy the pro women who have spouses that make real money. But being a single young pro chick makes me more marketable to sponsors I'd like to think. ;)

I just turned pro in May and made about $5,200 in prize money this year so far, which is $5,200 more than I expected. One more race to go this weekend at IM Cozy.

I live at home with Mom & Dad when I'm not overseas at training camp. Not exactly glamorous but at least I'm only 27 and not 37 so I don't feel like *such* a loser. :) I also work part time at home when I am at home and make at most $2000/month from that. woohoo....

so where does a pro chick go to find a rich husband that wants to be her #1 sponsor? Slowtwitch or something?

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

here here oooh oooh!!!!! im not rich yet, but I will be!!!!

Paging Chip. Paging Chip.

-Jot

I actually lied, ill never be rich.

like how I'm not fast yet, but I will be! sounds perfect ;)

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

heck yeah, off to a good start!!!

Imagine if people cared about triathlon as much as they do nascar or nfl. That would be awesome. Is that the gist?

I know right...I am trying to sell logo space on my race kit and wondering if it will be effective to start with "Well logo space on me is waaaay cheaper than on race car drivers. I am pretty cheap, I just want $10,000."

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

I was a pro bodyboarder from 1987-1998 and our sport, at the pro level, closely resembles pro triathlon. Very few making a good living, more making a basic living, and many making NO living strictly from the sport.
Look at Greg and Laura Bennett. I think they raked in the bucks last year doing the ITU circuit. That seems to be the cash cow for pro triathletes right now, but even that was prize money earnings, not salaries per se.
By the way, most contracts have confidentiality agreements in them. As a pro athlete, you are forbidden to share what you get paid or receive because it can cause dissension with other athletes who get more or less, not to mention start driving up the contract values with competitors who will "one-up" the other guy to steal away an athlete.

---

------------------
My business-eBodyboarding.com

My brother is a professional surfer, my entire family pretty much works in the Surf industry as did I for a number of years growing up. It's more of the same really, very few make good money but I think the numbers are still a lot higher than Triathlon. My brother is no longer in the top tier levels but I'd say he still averages more than 10k a year in prize money alone, but there are a lot of other perks as well like essentially all of his clothing, boards, accessories as well as the majority of his travel being covered. He also gets a monthly salary from each of his sponsors plus photo incentives for magazine appearances.

All of that being said, he has been able to live the life as long as he has most likely because his long time girlfriend is a highly educated working professional who is making enough to cover the rest.

I was supposed to be the 'smart one' of the family. Went to college, got my masters, work as an Engineer for defense contractors, etc. I'll tell you, when I'm inside an office building for 12 hours straight and he is out surfing I certainly have a different opinion of who was the smart one.

Jocelyn....you and many female pros actually have it pretty good. Many guys will actually support a female pro athlete while they earn the real income. Very few women would be willing to be the primary bread winner while pro trigeek husband goes about making $5000 per year. Plus if I recall, you have a medical degree to fall back on after the gig is done.

I saw that Rappstar and Sam both won $8,500 for WINNING this weekend. That's just hideous and is a direct reflection on the completely incompetent marketing done by the WTC and companies in the industry.

Spectators drive sponsor dollars and I haven't seen a single initiative from within the triathlon community to drive meaningful growth. Some of the tier-one athletes need to be made into brands and those brands then promoted to a wider audience. Damn it, generate some excitement.

As a marketer (not related to tri), this is something that bugs me to no end and is brought to the surface by these threads and every time I pick up a triathlon magazine.

$8,500 to win a professional competition is simply unacceptable.

It think pro golfers make more for just making the cut.

on the other hand though, 8500 bucks is about what a grad student gets for a semester worth of loans, getting 8500 that dosent need to get payed back and getting to train as you please.....
....well its hard to feel to sad about his payday.

awesome job rappsatar BTW!!!

Supply and demand. I know he worked his tail off, I'd even wager the average pro triathlete works harder than the average athlete in leagues that have a 1 million veteran minimum. Triathlon just isn't popular right now.

Maybe there's hope though, its not like golf is entertaining, yet they make millions.

 
I couldn't agree more with you SCB.

I know most pros live like warrior monks, happy in the pursuit of their passion. It's about as benevolent as it could be. However...I think about these folks when they enter their 40's / 50's. What are their options? What bankable skills? How much money has been tucked away and managed for those golden years? It drives me nuts. I know many average to slightly above average sales people that would consider $8,500 an "ok" monthly comp check...plus they draw a salary, have a 401K investment match, health insurance, some have company cars etc... The pros in our sport get so fucked it's insane. I'm glad to hear that many of them are starting to fully understand the implications and the folks who see the big picture are starting to mobilize. You're right...$8,500 for winning a M-dot, 2,000 person field major race is insane, especially when you consider the actual check in the bank is a fraction of that number.

The Spartan life many of these pros lead make me support and root for (and envy) them more and more, but the financial imbalance against so many other sports is just shocking. (and I'm not saying driving a car, hitting a golf ball or kicking field goals is a trade less-worthy) Most of us have a passion for this sport to the point that it can be consuming, it's a healthy hobby, but one that effects our schedule and that of our families every day. It's more complex and demanding on several more levels than that of a runner or somebody who simply lifts weights at the gym for THEIR "exercise". That and several other elements produce tremendous bias in us towards the athletes we love and strive to be like. My opinion is that the current situation is a combination of a lack of union between the athletes and (MUCH more so) a lack of proper marketing / sponsorship / mass appeal / support of the sport's best athletes by the leadership in the sport in general. This isn't a confirmed fact, but everything I read says this sport is growing at a pace above almost any other. It's expensive to participate in from an equipment standpoint as well as the fees we pay at the races. The better races sell out almost every time. They are obviously more expensive to put on that a 10K running race, but something has to give. The upper quadrant (and I mean well beyond the top 10) athletes in our sport across the distances both sacrifice enormously to get by and give back tremendously to the sport it's self. It's time for those athletes to step it up a bit (and some help from the very upper echelon would help too), but it's also high time for the sport and those guiding it's direction to start thinking long-term. Do I think many of will stop doing races because some of our favorite pros leave the sport? No...I do not. Do I think the sport could grow even more, become more mainstream, attract better sponsors, secure more TV broadcast time and extend the appeal to the masses further and set up some decent purses that pay more than $500 for 5th fucking place at a big race...hell yes. I'm typically anti-union primarily because of the abuses I've seen in the automotive world, but our pros need to band together and craft a unified message to the folks you control the money in this sport. And us age groupers need to pile on our support for them by voting with our money too. I think Rev3 is a perfect example of something disruptive in a positive fashion. I hope to see more of that.

Holy shit....did I just type all that. My beer is freaking warm.....

---

ADW

Why not Lancelot?

Are you from the Garson family in Florida? If so, I've stayed at your Dad's old surf camp in Costa. Rich is a GREAT guy.

---

------------------
My business-eBodyboarding.com

Macca seems to be doing very well. If you follow his tweets, he is jetting all over the country in a Gulfstream.

Congrats to both!


Give WTC some slack ;) The company that bought WTC most likely overpaid for it so it's not like that was a great investment IMO. And why would they have to please the pros. They have no other obligation than to make money for their shareholders. It's World Triathlon CORPORATION.


How many other sports that consist of three individual sports are receiving much viewer attention? When was the last time you watched winter biathlon or the decathlon? And while I do like triathlon, it's just not a spectator friendly sport. If not even the wifes and husbands of triathletes can't hang around all day, why should regular folks tune in to watch tri on tv. I agree that lack of marketability is a problem for the sport, especially for the "pros" as they don't get a wide audience that follows them. That said, a pro can always do more and stand out. Remember, Chucky V, he was about the only Tri guy that I remember on a Gatorade commercial. It's not just about athletic performance but about the marketability of the individual athlete. Maybe WTC should give the pros a marketing/advertising 101 booklet for their $750 entry fee...


A triathlon pro is as much in the advertising/marketing business (if not more) as they are in the athletic business. Up to them to some extent to do more and get better deals. Not easy, just saying. And maybe, just maybe too many young guys live in a tri-bubble without realizing that pro-triathlete is to some extent an oxymoron.

---

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

$100k/yr on top of base salary and benefits is only "ok"?

Damn, dude...

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Since you ask, I'll be in your neck of the woods in about week.

Want to get lunch?

I'm not really a spectator for any sport, but are you sure that Triathlon is a spectator sport?

Outside of family members, wannabe participants, and people who happen to wake up one morning with their house on the race course, does anyone really watch it?

was that in response to my post about finding a rich husband or buying a logo for $10k? ...or both?

(hint: the right answer is "both")

I'll be in Cozumel sipping fruity umbrella drinks next week. but feel free to PM me ;)

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

ITU races can be good races to spectate. It's the longer non drafting events which are a bit of a snore fest for the general public. I know of a fair number of people who will tune in to watch ITU races on tv...but then triathlon has a fairly high profile here in NZ.

Go easy love....

I know someone who is 38...has earned well into the 6 figures from the sport you're trying to break into for the past 4 to 5 years..and would stick kick ya butt now at 38.

Age isn't a factor and it sure as hell doesn't affect the numbers.

---

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

Hey Jocelyn,how about a little reality check,breaking ten hours twice as a pro female does not make you a superstar on any continent!I just read you blog and bragging that "only one pro male could beat you" means nothing when you are at some race that means nothing.
Sorry dear but you may well be the darling underdog of your team but please give the "superstar" tag a rest until you have done what so many other female pros have done to actually earn that tag.


Flame away ST,flame away.I have no problem in this case.


.

The difference, of course, is that people actually watch golf in meaningful numbers.

Hahaha,sucks to be a tri-pro but that is just popularity and marketing.In Australia last weekend we had a seventeen year old girl win 10,000AUS($9,178USD) for winning the national cell-phone speed texting competition.

In 2005 a friend of mine won Ultraman Canada in Penticton (I was second) and he won $0.00 but,on the same weekend, the guy that paid $10CDN for a rubber duckie in the charity rubber duck float down the river channel won $6,000CDN when his duck crossed the line first.

Life 'aint fair.

.

Haven't seen his tweets, but if that is so then he ain't paying for it out of triathlon income! Not at $4k/hour minimum.

Triathletes will make more money when someone other than a triathlete becomes interested in them.

Would imagine for most pros the sponsor income for important positions (hat, front of jersey) has very small base guarantee with substantial bonus income based on performance and therefore positioning of the logos.

Golf comparison: Titleist will give free equipment and merch to just about any touring pro who will wear their stuff in pro event, no matter how lowly. Said pro then can receive high five-figure bonus if he wins tourney wearing the logo, with lesser bonuses for top-5, top-10, etc.

I think the change will start in Europe. Very saddened to see such horrific funds for the pros. I don't get it - at all. Place part of the blame back on the athletes (please don't flame see below) and the other part on the rds.

That said, doing a very obscure event here's what u get from ultra land:
France, Austria and Germany the towns come out. They throw whole parties that go into the nights - late. Think to some extent the event 'race' is the entertainment. Freakin parades and songs written (France and Hungry from what I hear). Quite the spectacle. THE RACES ORGANIZE this and the people get it. It's a different lifestyle over there. From some of my friends it sounds like rev3 might be on that path.

FROM the ATHLETE side: When I was in school and had to get sponsors most of my races were covered - for the excess I did motivational speaking - still get asked but man is that draining (easy $$ though).
Able to raise 4k in 2 days last year all without asking. It came from my regular people I deal with daily wanting to help. Very humbled as I was in a bad bind. Saved me from having to dip into the rainy day fund.
Made several contacts with agents (line of work - I work on many pros of mainstream household name status) and was easily offered 15k for clothing and shoes but I can't run in their shoes so I had to decline (trust me I tried as I go through gear!!).

Granted I'm very social and I 'pimp' products that work. If they hold up to my abuse I show everyone! I even show the competitors why I like a different brand and then the 30-50 athletes I have on my table every week. The pros all we do is discuss products (infinit u can thank me for even introducing our future swimmers and bball pros and stuffitts just about every pro knows about your product - love ur new zipper one! H20 audio got handled by 100s of people this summer and now in office and Zensah even turning some bad ass ultimate fighters onto u - some of these sponsor some don't it's just how I share what works)

I sponsor several athletes and in turn I'm sponsored by other companies. As my businesses grow I'll continue to sponsor more. My website hasn't been updated in 4 yrs and it's not my job as it is with the pros and yet the finances are easy to come by. I think there's plenty of funds out there if it's worked.

Sorry I rambled but as an athlete - and not a pro just an endurance playtime athlete the funds are easy if u get creative. If there was more time in the day I'd like to create an ultra USA team as raising funds seems to be the limited for the USA to be represented at the European races. Perhaps that'll be a project down the pipe.

Check out my buddy http://www.rowingtheatlantic.com they raised a ton of funds in 1 yr all while working and training - in this economy.
Ok vacation time the beach she awaits.

"Hey Jocelyn,how about a little reality check"
---------------------------

Let me help you out with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek


Haim

---

-------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

Yeah, that's my dad. We don't run the camp anymore unfortunately but half the family is still in Costa pursuing various things. Spent most of my childhood at that camp.

While I do envy the ability of someone to throw down a near 8 hour IM or a less than 4 hour HIM time, I think I envy my bank account more.

I will stick with my day job. :-)

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Haha, professional cell phone dialer...

Here's another: Some dude in the US won the World Championship rock, paper, scissors event. He earned $50,000 USD!!!

Triathlon has numerous issues that need to be fixed.
1) The name is stupid. Sounds like a geometry shape, not a professional sport. The name has grown on us, but to the laymen, its just draws a stare.
2) The sport needs rivalry. Needs a point system going into the World Champs to determine who the World Champion is (like NASCAR, Golf, Tennis). Points lead to rankings, which lead to rivalry. Which leads to viewer interest. World Champ shouldn't be decided by who has a good day in a single event.
3) The sport needs unilateral support. (Starting with the bias shared on this site by its forum moderators.)
4) Don't allow the pros to be quitters. As soon as the going gets touch and they are out of the money spots, they quit. No other sport allows this crap. Give them season accumulation points for finishing the race.
5) Stop dressing so gay. Pointy helmets and compression wear is gay. Period. You might think you look cool, but you don't. You look gay wearing that crap. No one is going to support you if you are wearing that crap.

I really don't think this is unique to triathlon. Yes, there's obscene money for relatively few in baseball for example, but how many guys struggle in the minors? Volleyball, swimming, running, badminton, softball, ping pong, gymnastics, archery, the list goes on and on of sports with very few making much money, if any at all.

You mention growing non-participant interest and that's a really tough nut to crack. As much bashing as NBC's Kona coverage takes around here, it's enjoyable to watch. Having watched NBC's show and Versus' (I think) IMOO coverage the difference was night and day. Even as an interested viewer, it was hardly riveting.

The issue with triathlon is that it is the worst spectator event in the world- most triatetes don't even watch it when it's on tv, let alone non-triathletes...

---

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Cartels: Serotta, Zipp 2001, Guru, eh?
-"It was kinda long and then i got really tired"

oh boy nick

that wongstar concept pass 10 feet over your head this time!!! But that is ok, your a good guy so it s ok if you didnt get it.

Jocelyn dosnt take herself seriously, it s more of a fun project and she is really aware of where she stand in the food chain. That Wongstar name is a fun name like Rappstar as had for 4-5 years now. You just didnt realise the superstar tag is a ironic play of word...

but she will get there...she sure have impress me by her results so far coming from very very very far....

---

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

It sucks to be a pro athlete and make something like $20,000/year.

But if the pros band together an dform a union or something similar, think pro mountain bike racing, only pro triathletes never go tto those financial heights.

In other words, their salaries will never be on par with pro ball sports, auto racing, etc.

You need butts in seats, so to speak. In the US, how many people do you see lining the course who do not have friends or family participating in the race? In Europe, it is different, but still not the numbers that show up for a bike race.

So how much value does a pro triathlete bring to a corporation outside of the sport of tri? That is a tough reality. But that would be where the money would have to come from. The biggest coverage for our sport comes from NBC's coverage of Kona. And it seems that more time is spent covering feel good stories than seeing pros get their logos on TV.

Knowing a couple of pros, I have a lot of respect for what they do. One guy quit an engineering job to pursue this dream. It takes a big pair to quit a good paying job to enlist in a Spartan lifestyle with meager pay.

Interesting thread...and vaguely familiar sounding...

I gave up my pro card over 10 years ago and kind of wandered away from the sport for the last decade...Returning this year, I was excited to see all the changes that have occured. With the inclusion of triathlon in the Olympics (something that was touted in the mid/late '90's as crucial to "legitimizing" triathlon in the mainstream and bringing a windfall of sponsor dollars.) I assumed we would be a bit farther along than it seems like we are...

Crowie and Macca are a couple of huge exceptions in our sport...How much has a guy like Tim O'Donnell made this year? How 'bout Derek Oskutis?

My biggest prize money year was 1997 at about $21k (as little more than your average pack fodder "pro")...I spent about $10k in travel to do it...I knew age group guys who made more...and I knew "pros" who made less...I had to work about 20-25 hours a week at a retail store to pay the rent...

It doesn't sound like things have changed much...I talked with a few of the younger guys in Tuscaloosa this year...they all seem to be in the same boat I was..."Team Mom & Dad"... The strategy is still the same for most of 'em...run up the visa during the season and pay it off over the winter.

However...I would respectfully say that triathlon as a whole is in far better shape than the fringe sport I found myself in for the last 10 years...adventure racing...you want to talk about a sport with no sponsorship, no prize money, and not many participants anymore? There you go.

Comparing triathlon to NASCAR is inaccurate, though... car racing is ALL spectating and no doing...Triathlon is the exact opposite. It's more analogous to golf...the spectators are also the participants. What Triathlon needs, to jump the shark and become golf (producing everything from Sportcenter coverage to top pros raking in millions) is convince all the executives out there to stop inking deals on the golf course, sell their Calloways, and discuss their multi-million dollar ad buys while out on the nooner lunch ride...and then you have to convince the same number of people that have an Amex in their wallet, or use Viagra...to go out and drop a few $K on a new TT ride.

Somehow I doubt a hard set of hill repeats is going to become attractive enough to overcome a hot girl serving icy colds on the back nine...


The 100th ranked golfer on the PGA has made $839k so far this year. I wonder what Joshua Maeder or Sasa Franic have banked in 2009?...

If Americans can watch baseball and not get bored, they can surely watch triathlon. But I do agree.

I really don't think this is that difficult to understand. It is a numbers game. If I am big sponsor, and I am looking to throw some money into something, would I put my money into

A. A sport that has a pretty small participation population and only a few big races during the year?
B. A sport that has races/events every single weekend and is televised all the time and has it's own channel and has a HUGE population of people playing?

Wouldn't' be that difficult a decision for me. Until triathlon REALLY gets the numbers and can show the networks it is worth putting on the TV a lot more, I would be pretty surprised it will change. At least in North America.

That really wasn't very nice. You must have missed the self deprecating humor and the joking way she uses "Superstar"

you suck

---

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

I am not writing it like I own it. The OP asked for some information and I gave some facts, not complaints. Whilst I am not happy with my earnings and the state of pro triathlon I happy with the decision I choose to make every day to try and be a "proper" pro triathlete as you see it. I have a very good degree and could get a well paid job but I choose not too and I ask no sympathy personally based on my decisions. Perhaps some sympathy for the state of a sport that calls itself professional, but whether you feel any is of course up to you. All I was trying to do was dispell the common misconception that pro triathletes earn a living from the sport.

I appreciate your suggstion to get better, and get in the top 10, thanks, I'll get on that, incidentally top 10 will not earn you a living either. A friend of mine is top 10 and is back in full time work this winter.

---

http://www.tritom.co.uk
Pro Triathlete

EXACTLY!

On a big news day here in ST, you get maybe 20,000 views for a sport that is pretty accessible.

I am an aspiring film maker also. On the Red Digital Cinema website, a website for very high end movie camera, they made an announcement on Oct 30 about a new product. Now most people here have never heard about Red or the Red One. Very exclusive product, yet they had 1/2 million views within 3 days and over 1,000 responses.

Triathlon is still a very small sport.

In response to Uli saying " -[/reply]

you suck[/reply] "

Thanks that was really constructive.


I think you will find things are completely different in the UK to America. Pros who place the same positions as me have products sponsors for everything under the sun. It is simply a different culture/mentality over here. Why do you think so many UK Pros move to the US? There are 2 races over half ironman distance in the whole country that offer prize money. Thats it. There is no down the road race where you can pick up a $1000 and no-one else will turn up.

I know I am not very good. I never claimed to be. But considering I do it off my own back I am content with where I stand right now.

---

http://www.tritom.co.uk
Pro Triathlete

I always thought it was the weather. There are places here in the US that you can train all year round including outdoor swimming pools. In the UK, in the winter, there is hardly any daylight hours at all even before you talk about the weather.

I know why they do it. I just can't afford it.

---

http://www.tritom.co.uk
Pro Triathlete

I think you will find things are completely different in the UK to America.

I've been around. Stop fooling yourself, mate. Get any good before calling yourself "pro". You make an ass of yourself.
I never knew there are even races with more than 50 "pros" out there. And how many AGers beat you in those two races you mentioned?

---

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

I don't see a Usain Bolt in tri. 10% behind second fastest? That's sth like 10.6s. Yeah, they suck just as well.

---

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Most of the top pro's make MOST of their $ from sponsors, not race winnings of course. Everyone is talking about the $8500 win for an IM, but likely they (the athletes who can win an IM)
are making $ from sponsors, not just tri-related companies, but random businesses who support them. A few of my friends have won 70.3 & IM World Champs in the past, while asking them about salaries, yes those victories bring in a lot since they're World Champ races, but that's 1 race in a lifetime (maybe 2, or 3 if you're great/lucky). Most come from their sponsors. That being said, I've known short course Olympians who have said they've never rec'd any cash from any sponsor, just product, which I thought was odd. I think half is your talent, half is marketing yourself. Why do you think Macca, Lieto, and now many others (who aren't as talented) update their Facebook, Twitter, etc every 30 minutes. At first I thought to myself, these people are quite self-centered, assuming everyone wants to know their every move. They're that special. But really they are great people, doing a great job at marketing themselves. Getting a following is HUGE. That's how you have to market yourself nowadays, using all modes possible. Your sponsors will love you if 5000 people see a tweet about your product.

---

---

Ryan Borger - Denver, CO: Realtor. Former pro triathlete/coach. Cancer survivor. podiumproperties.com

and play it in meaningful numbers.

and buy golf clubs, Jack Daniels, Toyotas, American Express cards and airplane tickets...in meaningful numbers.

about 5 million people played golf in the US last year...many, many, many times that watched golf on TV

Triathlon is tiny and insignificant in the world of media impressions and relevant promotion opportunities. Period.


to the guy that thinks the pro that comes 48th sucks and needs to give it up? 48th on the PGA tour has made about 20% of the top guy (Tiger Woods)...If we estimate Crowie as the biggest money winner in our sport (I don't have the patience to sift through results and prize lists, but I'll guess $200k or so in prize $)...That means the 48th guy in the world makes about $40k...which sounds a little high, but close...

The question is "How do we get both of those numbers up?"

The answer is "We don't."

I'd say look to the promoters. Something isn't right. When you have tris costing $300 and up with 2000+ participants, that's a half million draw. Yes there are logistical issues with cost, but $500k+ to put on an event? I'd have to wonder about that.

To put it in perspective, consider a typical USCF bike race. On any given weekend in Texas probably 200-500 participants spread across numerous fields. $25-35 entry fees and the winner in a P12 race could walk away with $500 or so for winning. A recent race in Texas had a $4k payout across all the fields and 200-300 participants. Income of around $9k and $4k payout. Do you think tris are paying out nearly 50% of their gate?

For the record, biathlon is HUGE in Europe, with major sponsors, massive TV coverage, and fans in numbers that rival football (soccer). The viewership is huge, and the money in the sport is also huge (for those that make it).

Aside from the Olympics triathlon is never broadcast on live TV. Biathlon competitions are scheduled around European prime time slots.

Just because most Americans don't get it doesn't mean that it isn't hugely popular. (the same could be said for football)

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Comparing putting on a cycling race to a triathlon is pretty silly. Sorry.

Both are logistical challenges. Both require significant support from volunteers and law enforcement. Agreed they have unique issues, but I'd have to think, based on the bike race and tri promoters I've met and spoken with, that the tri side tends to hold back more money for winnings.

Although originally from Europe I thank you for correcting me and I didn't know how HUGE it was in Europe. What kind of price purses and sponsorship deals are we talking about then?

---

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

I've promoted both, as well as a bunch of running races...there is not an appreciable difference in administrative or logistic cost beyond timing (although a photo set-up for a finish line is a bit spendy.)

Triathletes have a wacked out level of expectation for timing though...We want full results posted before the heart rate drops below 100...that takes money (chip timing, computer access at the venue, etc.)...For some reason, cyclists don't give a rat's ass beyond the podium and GC standings...There is very little timing involved...

I would agree that Ironman races are killing it in terms of money...The average quality local triathlon entry fee is about $65...the average Ironman fee is $500...I don't see an ROI that equates to an 850% spending increase on the backside...

Supply and Demand.

HAHAHA! my first hater! I love it! Superstars must have some haters in addition to the fans. So thank you, Ultra-tri-guy, you too have now contributed to my triathlon superstardom.

because being a triathlon superstar is much more than just getting the results.

as for the reality check, I have one of the harshest coaches in our sport and train with really fast girls that can kick my butt on a daily basis at training camp. Every day is a reality check.

I see you might be doing IM Malaysia & IM China next year. Feel free to come up to me and say something to my face. If you can make it through the hoards of fans. I'm kind of a big deal in Asia.

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

That's not really true. Biathlon is only big in very few countries in Europe and virtually non existent in most. Not many people actively do biathlons and even in places like Sweden with a strong skiing legacy broadcasting and viewership didn't really catch on until after we got one athlete that was world class and could take olympic medals.

Money is quite small in lots of individual sports for everyone but the very best. I know of decent athletes in bigger sports than triathlon that are struggling just as much and only lives of support from the olympic federations. Triathlon has a few things going for it at least since more people get in to the sport, events are selling out and more races are popping up all over the place. It seems like that would mean there is at least a good platform for things to improve on the professional side as well in the future.

---

---

BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Any Pro athlete's salary is relatively equal to a part time when it comes to income; even if you're Tiger Woods (just on a larger scale). Although, I'll take Tiger's PT income any day- Nike...?

---

___________________________
http://www.SBRshop.com
http://www.facebook.com/sbrnyc

Bingo - cyclists don't care about timing because they're racing, not 'participating' or trying to 'acheive' a 'personal best': you get dropped or lapped, you're pulled from the course... All pro sports segment the activity from the money-making sport aspect: no one that plays in a beer league softball (or touch football, or weekend soccer etc., etc.,) truly believes that they can actually play at the level of pros, and, if they're deluded enough to think that that they can, aren't allowed to, by the nature of the sports - you can't just show up with your car at an F1 track (or, more to the point, at a local Pro/Senior 1 crit) and be allowed on the course. The 'inclusive' nature of Triathlon makes it a definitional amateur sport. Have a pro-only circuit with swim/bike/run primes and bigger prize money, then you might start getting more attention from media and sponsors.

As for salaries for Pros, I'm agnostic - I don't think there's any real aerobic sport out there where anyone makes 'real' money - there are probably only four or five ProTour cyclists making more than $1M US a year (before you jump on that, what's the mandated minimum wage for a Major League baseball player, or, as mentioned above, for the 100th best golfer on the PGA tour? I'd say $1M a year would be the baseline in professional sports for success): very much a function of supply and demand and percieved (and actual) return on marketing investment dollars - can't imagine there are too many mass consumer products out there that would get much of an uplift from identifing themselves with Triathlon.

Awesome response, Jocelyn! I think I love you, and I make decent money. The downside: I'm already married to a mean Asian. ;-)

Seriously, this thread sure did bring out the assholes...

---

Kendall Frederick

Orange Park, FL

So it's an Asian Ironman smackdown in Malaysia then.Excellent stuff and for the record I'm not a hater as I'm very impressed that you have come from a 13hr irongirl to a sub 10hr irongirl but ÿou can save the superstar stuff until you at least learn to swim or smack me down publicly at the after party in Langkawi.I'll be the loud guy going beer for beer with Rhodesy.

As for IM China,I'm trying to get there to race it as I have a couple of personal reasons to back to Hainan Island.One of them is triathlon related and the other is a bit more personal but whatever the reasons it will give you a chance to smack me down for the second time in a month......if you can that is.

.

The "tongue in cheek" thing often goes 2 ways actually

Ok, I have not read this thread (cause I have stuff to do today, I'll try to weed through it later) but I wanted to respond.

First, there are the haves and have nots in pro triathlon. I would go as far to say 5% are haves 95% are have nots. Maybe its not quite that bad. But, I would define a have as an athlete who makes an average American living wage, ie. something like $30k a year. I am a have not.

Yes, triathletes make nowhere near what other pro athletes make. That said, let's not even consider the "major sports" (NBA, NFL, MLB, Nascar, NHL). Just considering other similar sized sports (action sports, US cycling, perhaps running, etc) triathlon has a few issues:

1. It's difficult to sell tickets for spectating. Thus we don't have a "stadium" per se so we loose the centralized marketing venue. Hell I was at a Broncos game this weekend, everything is sponsored, the scoreboard, the replays, the cheerleaders, even the cheers (there's this Go, Go, GO, GOOO! cheer thing they do, brought to you by the GO auto dealers of Denver). When we loose the centralization we loose many opportunites to get outside the industry. But, one could argue that our lack of these things could open us up to other opportunities that centralized sports don't have. This is something we have not explored.
2. Carrying on from #1 we need to get outside the industry. We can't rely on bike, shoe, and wetsuit companies for title sponsorship. We need to see the Subway's, Starbucks, Target's, and so on getting into our sport. We see this more in Europe then the US, like the Commerzbanc team etc. Convincing these non-endemic companies of triathlons value and potential is the trick.
3. Which brings us to media. Triathlon isn't actually that small. There are around 130,000 licensed athletes, probably another 100,000+ non-licensed participants, and in all about 1 million athletes (foriegn and domestic) competing in the US each year. That's not terrible. But we only have one (maybe 1.5) magazine covering Triathlon. We have TV coverage but it's shotty, and burdened with human interest stories, which love em or hate em take away from the coverage of the pro race. It will be interesting to see how the progression of online coverage effects things, but the problem there is that is directed at the "enthusiast" where as network TV is more of a catch all. But, the fact is we need more TV time. Look at the little rubber people on the X-Games with their Gillette, and Target stickers on their gear. Hell, half of 'em don't even shave yet but they're hawkin Gillette. That is the trick and where the real sponsorship dollars are.
   
4. Last (for now, I could go on) we need to get away from the dueling event producers. We have the ITU, WTC, USAT, Xterra, etc. all fighting for athletes and exposure, and it muddies the water to the potential spectator or sponsor outside the sport. Hell, WTC will have 40+ 70.3 events next year. That volume dilutes the pro fields and makes for boring competition among the pros. Either you have two good guys and 5 others, or you have 10 mediocre guys and half of those being beat by the top AG's. Which gets you all on Slowtwitch talking about how much the pros suck etc. etc. We need a better defined schedule of "PRO races". Events focused on the top level competition (yet still with AG races) which feature big prize purses, good TV coverage, high quality fields, and real opportunity for the athletes and their sponsors. When the pro field becomes diluted it undermines the influence and importance of the pro race. Imagine with only Tony Hawk (although he's too old now) and Shawn White, and then just a bunch of those skater kids outside your local bank who fall over all the time. Nobody wants to watch that, but put out 10 Shawn White level guys and now it's interesting. Triathlon has the same issue, we have too many paying events and it takes away from the overall image of the pros.

I gotta get going, I'll check back on this later.

Jimmy

---

Jimmy Archer
Pro Triathlete/Coach/Freelance Writer
http://www.jimmyarcher.com
http://www.dirttri.com

If and when the day comes "they" start paying $1MM salaries to triathletes is the day we get rampant doping, returds changing their name to Biff Ironman and paparazzi reporting on which athlete looks fat in their speedo. The reason I do triathlon is I know it takes dedication and a lifestyle to achieve your goals. Golf is huge because guys like John Daly who drink a qt. of whiskey a day and smoke a pack of Camels are heroes to 90% of the white guys in Indiana. 99% of the American consumers who eat up TV adds have no connection with what a triathlon is and what it takes to get there. And that is just fine with me. Sorry pro's. If you want to make some big money look elsewhere. The "consumer" dictates how much you make and unfortunately they'll never be able to do what you do to get what it means.

---

If I wasn't livin' I'd be dyin'.

Post:

In Reply To:

I kind of envy the pro women who have spouses that make real money. But being a single young pro chick makes me more marketable to sponsors I'd like to think. ;)

I just turned pro in May and made about $5,200 in prize money this year so far, which is $5,200 more than I expected. One more race to go this weekend at IM Cozy.

I live at home with Mom & Dad when I'm not overseas at training camp. Not exactly glamorous but at least I'm only 27 and not 37 so I don't feel like *such* a loser. :) I also work part time at home when I am at home and make at most $2000/month from that. woohoo....

so where does a pro chick go to find a rich husband that wants to be her #1 sponsor? Slowtwitch or something?

Go easy love....

I know someone who is 38...has earned well into the 6 figures from the sport you're trying to break into for the past 4 to 5 years..and would stick kick ya butt now at 38.

Age isn't a factor and it sure as hell doesn't affect the numbers.

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"

Snatch, 2000.




But I think she is saying, she still has time to get better. It is a problem if someone is still trying to be a pro and only making say $5200/year total salary at age 38. That is unless you can supplement the $5200 prize money with other income sources or a very supportive spouse. Not many people will be able to become a professional triathlete at age 30(or so), in future and do as well as your wife/partner. Well some people will but not so many.

I believe all triathletes will need some money and a lot of family support to reach the top from now on. Either that or heavilly subsidised government support and training for the individual. Just getting to the big races and paying for accomadation is costly enough.

Also I think there are many ways an individual can market themselves and make money. Building a good brand around oneself will give the best rewards.....if you can do it.

G.
www.TriathlonShots.com

---

http://www.TriathlonShots.com
Full event coverage of triathlon/ironman in photos.

I have been following this post and had a thought. Why do we even have "professional" triathletes? Most of the events, even the Ironman events, cater to the participants who pay to participate. The prize winnings and sponsorships opportunities for the pros are pathetic. So why do people become professionals?

Why would a company sponsor a pro? If a company sells swimsuits and swim related stuff, wouldn't they sponsor a professional swimmer? I'm sure the top pro swimmers are faster than the pro triathletes. Wouldn't a bike company prefer to sponsor a pro biker over a triathlete? How many people in the USA can name one top professional bike rider? How many people in the USA can name one top triathlete? Wouldn't a running shoe company want to sponsor a professional runner? I think the top marathoners can probably run circles around the top triathletes.

Why would spectators watch triathlons? Is it because they will see the fastest swimmers in the world like watching olympic swimming? Is it because they will see the fastest bike riders in the world like watching the TDF? Or is it because they will see the fastest runners in the world like watching olympic track events? I don't think they will see any of these things. They will just see people who are pretty good at each event. While that is really nice, it doesn't seem particularly exciting. Nor does it seem worthwhile of being a professional at it. If you want to be a professional, shouldn't you specialize in the event you are best at?

I'm not bashing triathlon or the professionals. I really enjoy racing in triathlons and I enjoy the health benefits I get from doing it as well as the comraderie of my other triathletes. I also enjoy seeing the pros on the race course and meeting them. I am sure they enjoy the sport as much as I do and I certainly wish them the best of luck in their chosen profession. I just wonder why we really need pro triathletes.

Oh, one other thought. I have seen several posts from "professionals" who say they haven't earned any money doing this sport. Doesn't the definition of a professional say that it is someone who derives his living doing that task? If you are a triathlete who earns his income delivering pizza, aren't you really a professional pizza delivery person, not a professional triathlete?

See, now this is marketing yourself.

I am now a fan.

I think both Ultratriguy and Jocelyn are somewhat right. Jocelyn is a superstar in my book for helping kids in the Phillipines with prosthetics (or something to that effect). UTG is correct that Joc need to work on that swim to really be considered a pro :-). As for an ST smackdown in Haikou, I would dearly love to go. My main problem is figuring out how on earth to haul my bike case around from Haikou to Shenzhen to Shanghai to Chengdu to to to between planes, taxis and hotel rooms.

UTG....don't be so hard on Jocelyn. She's like a little ST sister who is living the dream life that most of us stuck to our middle age lives can't live....so someone needs to do it for us! Actually I'll admit that after going through some tough years in my late 30's the last 5 years have been as close to the dream life that most working dudes can achieve while keeping all ball in the air during the perpetual juggling act of life.

Dev

Yeah, I'm pretty much with you on this. Why can't we just accept that triathlon is fun to do but inherently dull to spectate? Watching guys throw darts in a pub is more enthralling.

To offer a offer very good income potential, a sport needs to be able to sell lots of tickets and/or have good broadcast licensing. How would the snooze-a-thon that is IM racing meet either objective? ITU is closer but still not too likely to catch on big in the US.

Just becuase we would like our sport to have more mass appeal doesn't mean it ever will or even should. I'm sorry if this means more people can't chase their ego-centric dreams of training 40 hrs a week and living handsomely from it.

I would like to offer you a sponsorship deal! I'm about to launch my new matrimonial sponsorship program.
Please email me for details!

I would like to offer you a sponsorship deal! I'm about to launch my new matrimonial sponsorship program.

I've already trademarked "Pro, with benefits." (tm) so don't try to use that in your marketing material.

-Jot

I think the average pro dont make much at all. They make money at the end of the year when they sell their bikes and stuff.

---

Formely stef32

Most likely it was owned/rented by the AGers he 'coaches' that both KQ'ed

---

-- Aaron Davidson

that's what I'm saying, being a triathlon superstar isn't just about being really fast. If I was going around marketing myself as a superfast pro triathlete, that's DIFFERENT. ;) It's like how Britney Spears is a pop superstar but she is obviously not a great singer.

that's right... I just compared myself to Britney Spears.

As for my comment about age, I was not knocking the 38yo pro women at all. I am well aware there are many that can kick my ass. BUT if I was still living with my parents in 10 years and only making $5200/yr, and sleeping in the same twin bed, then well...enough said. And whoever the 38yo pro chick is making 6 figures, I really hope she is not still living with her parents. I mean, unless she's the one supporting them, that's cool.

And please continue to heckle me about my atrocious swimming. I know I deserve it. Everyone should heckle my swim!

living the dream! :D

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

stop posting on ST and get in the pool.

:-)

---

__________________
JP

my twitter feed

I'm right about to leave, I swear. hehehe!!

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

I have been thinking about RASTA's original question. How can Triathlon as a sport could get more attention? How does this sound:

#1 - we need to make the sport more exciting. What do football, baseball, NASCAR, etc. have that triathlon doesn't have? How about lots of physical contact and opportunities for injuries? How can we do this with triathlon without actually hurting people very bad? How about if we rename triathlons? Instead of boring names like Ironman Florida you could call it the "Swim with the gators, Florida Triathlon" or "Run the Gauntlet tri" or something else that would draw interest. Some people may watch the Tour de France to see bike crashes. Maybe we need to turn triathlon into a team event. Allow people to draft or be in pelotons. Make the bike courses really hilly with lots of twists and turns. If there is an occasional crash, make sure the media is aware of it and that it gets lots of exposure. Make the run a short, fast sprint.

#2 - the events need to be shorter so they can be televised.

#3 - make triathlon a team sport. Call it the SuperFastTeam Pro triathlon. Have, say 5 team members and 10 teams per heat. The winning team has the shortest average time of all finishers and you have to have at least 4 finishers on a team. Here is how I would set it up:

Rather than have the mess that we have now at the beginning of the swim, each team starts in its own starting area and swims around it's own buoy. The distance can be 1/4 mile out, round the buoy and come back in. It will be easy to figure out which team is in the lead and TV coverage would be easy. Spectators can see which team is in the lead from the beach You can have lots of folks cheering on the shore to add excitement. They can ride together, so if they have an especially strong rider, that person can pull the group, drop off after the bike, then let the rest of them finish the run. The bike should be about 20 miles. It should be hilly and twisty as stated previously. There should be names for the hills and curves, like heartbreak hill and deadmans curve. Bleachers can be set up at these locations for spectators to cheer and increase excitement. Multiple loop courses or out and backs would be best. The run can be a 5K sprint to the finish.

Something like this would be easier to televise, sponsors might like it because their advertisements might get better airtime, it would be easy to run because it builds on the triathlon experience we already have and if there was prize money, there is an abundant pool of fast triathletes who would want to participate. The races would be over in an hour and a half or so, and with the magic of television editing, could easily be covered in an hour. Television spectators could watch a bunch of fit, athletic men and women racing around the course. I think it would be very attractive to the viewing audience and could be portrayed as very exciting.

After doing the professional men and women's waves, ameteur waves could follow at intervals of every 5 minutes or so. This could be a whole series held throughout the country. Finishers earn series points based on their finish positions in each race, then at the end of the year, they could have a final worlds type event to decide the winner with the highest point winners being invited.

Thoughts?

Wow, I had no idea that they made so little. Thats kind of sad.

---

Bike Racks Never leave home without one.

You mess with Wongstar, you mess with her gang ;-)

I admire all the athletes on her team, but she is special.

As for Pros or semi-pros pursuing the sport with mostly minimal financial returns. If it was just about the money, most people would not get into track and field or triathlon or any of these sports that are not mainstream.

I know someone who was a professional runner in the 80's, with a 2nd at Boston, 2 LA Marathon wins, and ran in several Olympics. He lived a VERY frugal lifestyle for many years, and still does. Does he regret that choice today? NO. Would many of us trade our lifestyle to have lived the experiences he had? I know I would. Of course, lacking his talent would kibosh that idea. You only have one life to live and if you can pursue your passion and dream regardless of it being financially rewarding, that is great.

m but please give the "superstar" tag a rest until you have done what so many other female pros have done to actually earn that tag.


Flame away ST,flame away.I have no problem in this case.


.[/reply]

---

Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike

sounds like you are stealing a few ideas from ITU.

I find it amusing that despite the lack of love for ITU events on this site, that many of the suggestions made in this thread are suggestions the ITU has already put in place or which they are trialling.

This is such a crazy place.....I love slowtwich

I said 'don't write it like your owed it', not 'don't write it like you own it'. Sublte difference.

Lets face a few facts. There are British triathletes who are making good money because they are winners. Try Alistair Brownlee or Stuart Hayes or Chrissie Wellington, or Mr & Mrs Bayliss. Yes they race in the US, but not just in the US, they race all over the world. They are the 'true' professionals. They are not looking to slope off to their local sprints and work their way up to the (terribly organised) IMUK, they travel, and race where the money is - because they are good enough. They showcase their sponsors worldwide. IMO there are way too many 'second tier pro's' moaning about how much money there is in Triathlon. I think the WTC pro's licence is a great idea. It gives sponsors the opportunity to identify licenced pro's, helps identify competitors who need drug testing and brings about an air of realism to the term 'pro'. If you have not got a name on the global scene in Ironamn how much do you think your are worth to a sponser as a second tier athlete??? If you can't cut it in your local Oly, how do you think your are going to do in a series race for big money where the really fast people racing! Try asking Jonathan Hotchkiss.

As with all things in life you have to prove your worth before you are worth it. When I joined my current firm I did not as the chief Executive and with 23 years here I still have a way to go. I have been steadily promoted though and based on my career past and current fee producing activities you can easily see what I am 'worth' to my firm. Same thing applies to athletes. Your only worth what your exposure and finishing position dictate. A lot of that is also dictated by the sport you choose - golf mega exposure - triathlon very very limited exposure.

If your doing it for love I applaud you (so am I ;-) If your doing it for money I applaud you even more - god knows hard that must be training, travelling, organising and racing especially if you need a part time/full time job for support. But I am sorry I just cannot stand people whinging 'oohhh its different in the UK' or 'I have a degree and could get a well paid job'. If you want it do - I admire you, I really do. If your not good enough tough. Sorry, but that's my attitude.

As for the WTC argument I agree that WTC need to up the ante. But not just in the prize money stakes because lets face it that is not where the bulk fo the money is. The real money is in exposure and media, and that is where we should be pusing WTC to make big investments. Exposure lasts for years and benefits the spost as a whole, another £500,000 in the race purse lasts 1 race and benefits the top ten.

By the way - triathlon is pretty much my life, I just don't think you can start comparing circumstances and earnings - you either want to earn shed loads and live your life accordingly, or you want to lead a particular life style which usually means you are precluded from earning shed loads. A few very very lucky people are talented and gifted anough to do both. The Bastards.

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

The money for Pro's is in sponsorship, and if you're Crowie or Macca the sponsorships will come to you, if you're a guy who wins a few local tri's and maybe a top ten here or there at an IM then you'll probably have to go to the sponsors. That means you would have to do alot of 'cold calling' for sponsors, and go out there and sell yourself. Many just can't or will not do this, and they draw in no revenue.

Its not something I would want to do, but my guess is a pro who could sell themselves could actually pull in some cash.

I think the thing lost in all of this is when its over, said pro is in his / her mid 30's with no retirement, no equity into any career, and no real workplace experience. I think that in itself is the biggest loss any pro has. This goes for all sports. Triathletes though seem to be a smart breed and many seem to have a good education to fall back on.

"I think the thing lost in all of this is when its over, said pro is in his / her mid 30's with no retirement, no equity into any career, and no real workplace experience. I think that in itself is the biggest loss any pro has. This goes for all sports. Triathletes though seem to be a smart breed and many seem to have a good education to fall back on."

I think you make really good points in your last paragraph. I have no idea why anyone would want to be a professional triathlete. It makes ZERO sense to me. The risks are huge and the rewards are almost non-existent. I just don't get it. Someone please explain to me why anyone would be dumb enough to go this route. I understand wanting to do something you enjoy, but I would hope there would be other options / interests other than triathlon or s/b/r for just about everyone.

I think one of the very things that make triathlon appealing to the average athlete -- the way that there's no real separation between pros and AGers at race check-in, on the course, in transition, at the awards banquet -- means that the above-average AGer finds it way more "realistic" to dream of being a "pro" than he/she might in any other sport. I can't think of another sport where someone, after racking up a few minor achievements at amateur level, could suddenly deem it credible to turn pro the following season and try to make a living at it. I mean, the first thing people say to me when they hear I won my AG is "so when are you going to turn pro?" That kind of attitude would never fly in cycle racing or marathoning, yet it's common in triathlon. And I just raced a regular IM, I didn't win my AG at Kona!

But triathlon is full of people who have taken a leave of absence from work, saved up and quit their jobs, and/or got the spousal okay to go at it full-time in the hopes of "making it" as a pro. Heck, it's full of people who are full-time amateurs (and I fit into that category myself) who had the financial and family wherewithal to take a year and see how well we far we could go. Personally I'd rather be winning my AG as an amateur than lolling around the bottom half of the rankings as a mediocre and anonymous pro, but I'm mid-30s and realistic; I know I don't have what it takes, either physically or mentally, to fight my way to the top. It was fun while it lasted, but the real world beckons again.

By the way, I don't begrudge anyone for having a go at being pro, best of luck to them. I do think, however, that the new WTC rules for pros will weed out those who shouldn't be there and who are dragging down the rest in their mediocrity. I said it in another post, but 60% of the male pros in Kona were beaten by the top dozen AGers. That shouldn't be happening. Glad to see the WTC is taking steps to improve that.

---

---------------------------------
https://twitter.com/smaryka

I do think, however, that the new WTC rules for pros will weed out those who shouldn't be there and who are dragging down the rest in their mediocrity. I said it in another post, but 60% of the male pros in Kona were beaten by the top dozen AGers. That shouldn't be happening. Glad to see the WTC is taking steps to improve that.

Agreed,

And I think that an option for many of the lower ranking Pros will be to now race AG - my sense is that is what the WTC wants them to do and is encouraging them to do based on the new rules. Guess what - certain AGs just got a whole lot more competitive and Kona slots a lot more harder to get!!

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

LOL..... well, if you ask for a explanation, you most likely would never understand it. What a ride it as been so far....i would not change a thing from the start......it s call life and DAM.... it s been amazing so far!

---

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

+1 Jonnyo!

Sure it's financially stupid, but believing in yourself and having the balls to go after your dream is something money can't buy. I'm not going to be someone who sits in an office hating my job and always wondering "what if?"

I was lucky enough to be recruited on a sponsored and very well-coached team when I was 26 to help me on this journey, but I always said when I turned 30 I would re-evaluate, and I do in fact have an advanced degree in prosthetics that I can fall back on.

Just this year has been the best year of my life and if I decided to go back to a "normal life" next year (which I won't), it was all worth it!!

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

If many of the pros in the lower ranks choose to go AG next year. They will be shut out of all the US based IM race as most are sold out. So many AGers will not feel the wrath of fast ex pros jumping back into their AG till 2011. Sound like an accurate scenario?
S

This is a great discussion, but the reality of it is pretty sad. While I take my training and racing very seriously, I personally would never give up my career in order to only focus on triathlon. I just don't see that as necessary for me (but respect others' decision to do so) . Like some of the others have commented, for me it is important to have good benefits, a 401k, and a steady income. I am fortunate to not have a 60hr a week job, though, so I know it's not as easy for everyone to do both. But for me, triathlon is and always has been an awesome hobby, and the ability to race in a pro wave was just a really cool bonus. I love it and wouldn't trade it for anything; but I already did my traveling around the world (and working for free) in a former life (peace corps)! It's awesome to be able to race at this level w/o sacrificing the career. Some advanced degrees may be easier to fall back on and jump back into the work force, but others (business-related) are only as valuable as your steady experience. So everyone's situation is different.

I'm just not sure if I'm missing something regarding the WTC's implementation of a new Pro Membership. How is this "upping the ante" or "taking steps to make the pro field more competitive?" From what I understand, it looks like just another way to increase revenue for WTC, hiding behind the guise of a "doping control program."

It's just gouging the pros who are living on peanuts as it is, w/o offering up additional prize money opportunities or media exposure.

---

-----------------------

Amy Kloner

I've highlighted it: basically the pro field is too weak, even at the World Championships. There's absolutely no way that more than half the pros should be getting beaten by the top AGers. The fact that that's happening means that the ability-difference between the two categories is too small. And it's become far too easy to become a pro. When everyone can be a pro, the label suddenly carries a lot less importance. And that's a problem for triathlon in my opinion. At the moment pro doesn't equal elite, but it should, as it does in every other sport that wants to be taken seriously.

Note that I don't know who you are, so this isn't a personal opinion of your accomplishments as a pro triathlete. But I would point out that one of the sentences you wrote actually supports what I'm saying. You said "for me, triathlon is and always has been an awesome hobby, the ability to race in a pro wave was just a really cool bonus." This is exactly the problem facing pro triathlon today. Too many FOP AGers see the pros racing and think "I could do that" and then become the 60% getting beaten at Kona and diluting the pro field because they see it as a fun hobby and the sport allows them to do that to its own detriment. I think this new WTC rule will help clear that up, at least for Kona, because nobody will be able to cruise to a Kona slot without being within 5% of the winner's time (which is how elite is being defined now).

---

---------------------------------
https://twitter.com/smaryka

I disagree with you regarding me viewing the sport as a hobby as supporting your argument that athletes who compete "as a hobby" weaken the field. As long as the athlete is competitive and not dragging down the field, who cares if they look at it as a hobby? How can it be anything BUT if they work full time but they still stay competitive (i.e. not getting passed by large #s of age groupers-- by your previous definition)? Is that really a problem? Viewing the sport as a hobby does not equate to being less competitive.

I see what you're saying about the WTC limiting the field at Worlds with a req't to finish w/in 5% of the winners time. In that case, YES, it may somewhat improve the field at Worlds. However, it'll be interesting to see by just how much. At most IM qualifiers, it requires a very competitive result to get a Kona slot (maybe only a couple offered per race). Now the roll-down slots to C'water seem to be easier to get. But by claiming that this is going to support doping control and give us complimentary entries is not calling a spade a spade. (Most pros don't pay entry fees anyway.) This is already discussed in another thread at length.

The fact that our sport has so many fast age groupers who COULD race pro (and consistently beat pros) is another interesting testament to the sad reality that there isn't much motivation to GO PRO. Many don't want the extra pressure, and the fact that they aren't making any substatial money as a pro makes it much less attractive.

I liked the one guy's list on how to make the sport more marketable! That's where we need to start if any of this is going to change (more competitive World Championships and more pros truly being able to make a living at the sport).

---

-----------------------

Amy Kloner

+2 Jonnyo.

While we have a difference of opinion on your team-mates "superstar" status I do applaud all of those people who decide that they will trade the safe life with a safe job to try and live the dream and see just how far they can go.It takes a different view of the world to be able to do that and not many people these days would be able to deal with the sacifices required to live that kind of lifestyle.

Life is short so go out and live it.


.

Wish I'd jumped in on this sooner.

1 The Professional Triathlon Association was approved and given a 64,000 grant from USAT for starting money going into 2010. In order to get a pro license from USAT we now will be part of of the PTA, which is to say our annual dues remain the same, but $61 goes toward the association, and our usat dues are lowered to the same $39 that AGers pay. The point of the PTA is to popularize the sport, and to work with athletes, sponsors and RDs to make our sport more marketable, and to promote pro athletes.

2. Ironman is boring to watch on TV because it's incredibly long and there's very little interaction between athletes (the drafting, and riding in packs may be illegal, but it makes Kona much more fun to watch).

3. ITU is fun to watch. Fast, multiple laps, and it takes strategy to win an ITU race. Just look at how Chrabot won Huatulco - everyone thought he was committing suicide in a solo breakaway in 103 degree Mexican heat - he had the best runner in the sport chasing him down, but his bet paid off.

4. Checkmatetriteam.com is going to make it even more fun to watch, by sending a whole team to races, just to help each other win. If we can get the media to understand the sport, and get some better announcers, ITU could be far more exciting than watching 15 second passes on the Queen K. ITU Teams are the future of the sport, with teams, World Cups will be more exciting than Tour De France.

---

Ben Collins
Amateur Swimmer, Amateur Cyclist, Amateur Runner...
...Professional Triathlete.
It's not the length that matters, but what you do with it.

Hi Ultra-Tri-Guy and Jocelyn, Ive been following this discussion and being (another) Wong, my thoughts are like so:

First of all, are you from China or California? I am not able to follow *why* you are a big deal in Asia if you are born and brought up in California? I have several cousins on that side of the world and no, their opportunities are not the same as I have here, in Boston.

Ive looked up TeamTBB and it seems that there are probably maybe four *real* Asians on there, one is the amazing Phillipino and the other is a guy from Singapore. Is this an Asian team or a make-believe?

I have all the respect for what you have done Jocelyn, going after your dreams, however I also think this whole "team" is really lop-sided.

Ultra-Tri-Guy, they say the loudest competitor wins. I am with Jocelyn on her marketing skills. I am waiting to see someone pay her $10,000 to wear a few logos.

Hi Jen.

I have no doubt that Jocelyn will do okay sponsorship wise with the current way she is marketing herself if not for her performances but for her chosen charity work.Personally,I didn't want to mention the "Äsian representation" thing as everyone would jump down my throat for being a racist dick but you have to wonder as she is an American racing under a US pro card.Her dad is from Hong Kong but I wonder if she is eligeable for a Hong Kong pro licence or for a Hong Kong resident I.D card(like me, she probrably is).I do find it strange that she would say she is representing China and not Hong Kong.

No doubt we will find out once everyone gives me shit for picking on her again.





.

 

4. Checkmatetriteam.com is going to make it even more fun to watch, by sending a whole team to races, just to help each other win. If we can get the media to understand the sport, and get some better announcers, ITU could be far more exciting than watching 15 second passes on the Queen K. ITU Teams are the future of the sport, with teams, World Cups will be more exciting than Tour De France.[/reply]
Much as I love your attitude Ben, a question for you...

The three featured athletes on your site are from 3 different countries. How do you intend to send a 'team' to ITU races "just to help each other win", bearing in mind Olympic Qualification begins in 7 months and NF's all get a set quota of entries and would surely be reluctant to give spots in order to support your team? Or do you all intend to race as "ITU Athletes"? I know you used to be able to do that, although not sure if it's still the case with the new WCS?

Triathlon is a participation sport, not a spectator sport. Triathlon is not a mass participation sport but a niche' sport for those who love it. It doesn't matter what other sports are doing; it's how we manage our own sport that counts. For some Pro's that I know, that work to support themselves anything from 20hrs a week to normal full time occupations and don't make a living from Triathlon (they actually pay to compete) it is just a matter of getting an opportunity to compete the best they can against the best at the pointy end of the field whilst avoiding age group congestion.

I will stand on my soapbox and say that the "X-Factor", the something special that could be sold to sponsors, was removed from the sport with the push for regular TV coverage (and inclusion in the Olympic Program), draft legal racing and the introduction of 200m/10km/2km races that didn't require any level of training or experience to complete.

Well.. I know how difficult it is for women here (in the USofA) culturally and otherwise. Given the attitudes world-wide, we still have it pretty good here, all said and done.

I actually don't think that sentiments on this forum really extend past observations, I have an avid triathlete in the family so, I stay involved but, never to take anything too seriously (as I often tell my son). We have been following Jocelyn's amazing progress and personally applaud it. However, it does seem that people take the races in Asia lightly. Or the RDs there want participation and go to any lengths to get any pro to get there (not that there is a shortage, but, that seems to be the prevalant attitude).

Jocelyn seems to have raced Ironman China in the first year, as a "Pro" without an actual US Pro-Card. How the WTC allowed this is not clear. Perhaps she used her HK status then, that is also not clear.

In any case, we did some more research into TeamTBB and its very entertaining. Most athletes are self-established (some with beach houses) so, by no means is the average house-hold income comparable to the average "Asian". I have the same roots, although I consider myself American, having been here for so long... but this is a very interesting team.

So can you explain exactly HOW having a "diluted" pro field is a detriment to the professional status? In what ways are sponsorship, salaries, and prize purses altered for the people that make a living in the sport effected by having a slower athlete in the field?

It sounds like people are making statements, yet I still have not heard any logic behind it.

IMHO, if we keep on eliminating players from the game, it will eventually turn into a game of 1 on 1. Seriously, who wants to watch a race with only 3 athletes starting? I know that the professional women's field at most races is pretty lean in the first place. Especially for the women, I don't see the purpose of making that field any smaller.

As for the WTC and their WC 5% rule, I'm not sure how many of the IMH slots for the pro's were actually over 5% of the winner's time for the qualifiers. I did some spot checking on the results and I didnt find any that rolled down past 5% of OA time. Kona is a long and tough race, so if a bunch of pro's get beaten by an AG, I don't think it's a real indicator of anything. Some people had good days, some people had bad days. At Kona, it's usually pretty easy to have a bad day.

As for Clearwater, that's a different story. I think WTC trying to "legitimize" that race is nothing but a joke. If people took that race seriously, then you would not need the 5% rule. As it stands right now, I've seen Clearwater slots for the Pro's roll all the way off the board. No one wanted them. I think all that's going to happen differently from 2009 in 2010 is a smaller start. I don't foresee Crowie, Macca, Stadler, or Potts going "Sweet! They put the cutoff at 5%, I'm totally going for to Clearwater now." Clearwater will become "legitimate" when the racers and sponsors take it seriously, not when a corporation decides to.

"I actually don't think that sentiments on this forum really extend past observations"

Sentiments by definition are not simple observations. You can look that up. Clearly you have things you want to say but are unwilling to own them. I'd be willing to bet your supressed rant would make a great stand-alone thread here on Slowtwitch.

As for Clearwater, that's a different story. I think WTC trying to "legitimize" that race is nothing but a joke. If people took that race seriously, then you would not need the 5% rule. As it stands right now, I've seen Clearwater slots for the Pro's roll all the way off the board. No one wanted them. I think all that's going to happen differently from 2009 in 2010 is a smaller start. I don't foresee Crowie, Macca, Stadler, or Potts going "Sweet! They put the cutoff at 5%, I'm totally going for to Clearwater now." Clearwater will become "legitimate" when the racers and sponsors take it seriously, not when a corporation decides to.

Key!

It says something when many of the absolute best mid and long distance specialists take a pass on an event. It's unfortunate that we don't have a true meeting point race in the sport that attracts all the best who would and should do well at that distance - something close to the current 70.3 or 1/2 IM distance would be perfect - an event with enough prize money and on a challenging enough course that would attract the likes of Craig Alexander and Simon Whitfield. Imagine!

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I am the director of Checkmate Triathlon Team and it looks like I got to Ben's post first so I will reply.
Our team currently has 3 members and we are interviewing for the next 3. We will have a team of six athletes from different countries. It may be to from the USA, 2 from Canada, and 2 from Mexico. We will shortly see.
This makes it easier for the team to work together. If we had 6 Americans competing for 3 Olympic spots how well do you think that they would work together?
Our team is doing something that nobody else in the ITU is doing. People race selfishly at the moment because they have no other option.
I wish that Matt Reed could have stayed ahead at Hy-Vee after his massive bike. Imagine if he was pulling a teammate! It worked for Matt Chrabot at Huatulco this year.
We hope to get attention for our sport. It would be great to see more people attending races as spectators. This would increase sponsor exposure for the race directors, athletes, and businesses.
We call our approach intelligent racing.

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

I agree with this, but I am not a pro. It will be interesting to see if pros enter WTC races as age groupers. Will this whole $750 thing backfire? Time will tell. Vote with your wallets!

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

Wow, look at me, now I'm becoming a big deal on Slowtwitch too. :D

Seriously people...why so serious?

If you want to get technical, I am Chinese by blood and American by birth. My dad was born in China and raised in Hong Kong and my mom was born and raised in Burma; both sets of grandparents and prior generations are from China. I do race with both American and Chinese flag stickers on my bike. I am proud to be American and have only represented the USA at races, but I am also extremely proud of my heritage and all the values I grew up with such as the hard work ethic. As far as I know I'm also the first Asian-American woman to get a pro card. I think until I win a world championship, China wouldn't want me but I only ever plan to race for the USA.

Team TBB is not an Asian team nor a make-believe team. It's an international team.

I'll be the first person to tell you I wasn't ready to race in the pro division that first year in IM China. I was still a "pro development" athlete on teamTBB back then and under the race rules you didn't need a pro card to race pro, only if you qualified for a Kona slot.

There are not very many pro women of Asian descent racing on the Ironman circuit (a handful of Japanese but I think that's it), and one of my goals is to focus on the races held in Asia. I identify with the people there and find they also identify with me and are inspired seeing an "Asian" women doing well, even if they know I am an American of Asian descent, and not a "REAL" Asian.

Why am I big deal in Asia: while it has been mentioned ad nauseam that I do not take myself so seriously, what I do take seriously is using my triathlon superstardom to help raise awareness for the prosthetics social projects I volunteer for in Southeast Asia. The funniest part of this whole thing is I never actually expected to go pro or improve as much as I have, as I originally approached the team to help out on these medical missions. I am learning that the faster I get and the more famous I get (thank you ST), the more people I will be able to help.

So it is really not about me as much as it's about trying to help more people through our sport. But thanks for helping to make me a controversial triathlon superstar. Now that's publicity. ;)

---

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

I don't think that it is incompetent marketing by the WTC. They market themselves very well. It doesn't say that they have to give all of the money they raise to the prize purse. I agree that the prize purse needs to be bigger. The bigger the prize purse the more talented athletes?
Look at what a great job Hy-Vee has done. $200k for the first male and female across the line! Plus they build bleachers to hold 10,000 people, bring in Budwesier Clydesdales, Blackhawk helicopters, Olympic gymnasts, and have a huge expo! This is all from a grocery store. If you have never been there, get there and watch the race. The course is spectator friendly and they bring in 3 giant jumbotrons like you would find at an NFL game. I think that this is what triathlon needs.
WTC is keeping the money from sponsors. Hy-Vee is spending money out of their pocket to keep this race going.

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

I have been watching this thread and am finding it hard to believe how much shit you are giving Wongstar. As for the first line above, I think it was up to the Race Director as to who can race Pro at their races. I believe that was the first year for IMChina so I would assume with her being on Team TBB and having a resume built up that she was allowed to race pro off of those two things. If you were the RD of IMChina and a Chinese-American athlete asked to race in your pro field and had a worthy resume I would assume you would consider. Maybe the RD already had heard about her an approached her to race in the Pro division, ever think of that? I mean look at what that does for the race, the locals have someone to root for and cheer on. It could only bring good things to the race and the sport so why not let a developmental athlete race in the Pro division.

Now for the second comment.............Just because someone comes from a wealthy family what does that have to do with them? How do you know if that family supports the athlete financially? I am sure whoever you are referring to has worked damn hard to establish themselves as a person and athlete. So you think just because their family has money that it is easy for them to succeed triathlon?

And for the team being very interesting, YES they are a very interesting group of people. They are just like each one of us, they all have goals and dreams and most of them are living their dreams out right now. I would assume since they are one of the top teams in the sport that must mean something,they show up day in and day out and bust their arse every second of every minute...........

AND FWIW nice of you (Jenwong) to show up and have two GREAT first post. You have really contributed to ST from the beginning!

---

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

I can easily guess one of two ways the WTC's "pro membership" will do. It will either cause a lot of pro's not to race WTC (either drop out of Pro, or simply not opt to race WTC). The other direction would be a fire sale on entries and a ton of no shows, DNF, and slower times (why go hard on a bad day when you can just race again next month for no cost).

What I am really curious about, is what do the Race Directors think of this. I have not heard their opinion and I think it would be great to hear what they thought about this pre-membership and now. Did race directors get upset about no name pro's showing up, or did they just want a good field? Were they happy with the relationship they had with the pro's before and is WTC new policy helping or harming that relationship? Do race directors feel they can raise the pro purse, or is already more than they can afford?

Ultra-Tri-Guy

This is what Bella Bayliss has to say about Jocelyn. I guess you probably think she is a poseur too.

Race favourite, Bella Bayliss and a Team TBB teammate had this to say about Wong: “Jocelyn joined our Team at the beginning of 2009. She was a real novice then. Over the months I saw Jocelyn’s' mentality of a real hard working girl. I saw the determination in her.”
“Every day I saw her give her all at each season, and not scared to stay behind when everyone else had finished their session and gone home.”

“Jocelyn is someone I really respect. She really trains hard, listens to our coach then gives it her all in the races too. She has improved so much over the year. I have enjoyed giving her some of my support and I would love to see her continue to improve over the coming years.”

Some great words about Wong from the 12 – time Ironman Champion Bella Bayliss.

---

Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike

I love this idea. Let's call it the ITU. Become a Checkmate Sponsor and help keep this idea going.

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

I realise you are being protective of your mate Jocelyn but I really think she is doing a great job of sticking up for herself.

I do have one question though,why would I think Bella is a poser?

.

Athlete from different countries is a big part of the strategy. How can you have a team of six athletes from the same country when that country only has 3 olympic slots? How do you decide who gets to have a shot at the team? Likely at the actual games we would all compete for our own country, but the team works together to get there.

---

Ben Collins
Amateur Swimmer, Amateur Cyclist, Amateur Runner...
...Professional Triathlete.
It's not the length that matters, but what you do with it.

 
Sorry I should of been a bit more specific..

How are your athletes even going to get entry into WCS events? If a NF has a quota of 6, why would they let one of those spots go to an athlete that is part of some other team?

I think you'll find very quickly your idea is flawed.

Objective selection. Meaning all of our athletes are already qualified for WCS events based on their ITU rankings. Furthermore, Checkmate Triathlon Team is doing World Cup and Continental Cup races in the Americas. You'll notice our team schedule doesn't include WCS races even though our athletes can still go to those races in our uniforms.

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

Wow I can't believe "the beach house" has made it on slowtwitch, my parents will be so proud. Lets get this straight, it would be very difficult for me to chase this dream of mine with out the support of my family. I am about to turn 30 and thank you Cervelo Van for pointing out how hard it is in todays world to say no to the "real world" and go after something you believe in, it would be way easier to quit and get a real job. By know means are my folks richie, rich. They bought the beach house 25 years ago for $60k, saved money for 20 more years, and then rebuilt their dream house! Because of way inflated real estate here in NJ, it is now worth a ton more!! I am blessed to be able to have a great place to live when I am home from camp. I am in the middle of my own little swim camp here in, as The Doc calls it, "The Tony Soprano Beach House" anyone care to come join me is welcome to see how hard we Team TBB Athletes train. I have always believed you should either go big or don't go at all and I will carry that same philosophy with me when I move on from triathlon.

As for The Wongstar, you have know idea how great of a person she is!!! If you don't think she is a super star, go see her in Asia because they love her over there!! Word is quickly getting around about this Asian Super Star and she is now becoming famous here in the U.S. and her results are now getting recognized, stay tuned!!!

Pro vs. AG debate: We have had this discussion on our forum and we could go on and on. For me I was probably not ready to race pro this year but the reality was I am training full time so why am I going to race age groupers who have to balance so many other things in their lives. I have learned alot, it's a totally different race from racing as an age grouper, especially when on a flat course, but this year was about learning and getting the miles in the legs!! I got it handed to me in every Ironman I did this year but no regrets because it will pay off down the road! It's not about the money for most struggling pros, its personal, each one of us is has a burning desire inside to how far we can make it! YOU MUST LOVE TO SWIM,BIKE, AND RUN, to do this!!!

Cheers,
Scott DeFilippis
Team TBB

---

Scott DeFilippis
Professional Triathlete
Coach and Co/Founder
KIS Coaching

 
Sorry, didn't look at your schedule, just noted Ben talking about educating media and figured he was talking WCS events as they're the only ones now that really gain any media coverage.

I'm guessing you have some other bigger names on your team that aren't listed on the site? As these guys won't qualify you for any form of automatic entry, it'll come down to how there NF's perceive your concept. As for WCS they're not in the Gold Group (auto entry), they're not top 30 WCS, or top 20 World Rankings. And for World Cups such as Huatulco etc auto entry is still pretty specific, 25 best rankings on WCS get priority, and then 45 with most points from the ITU point list. So realistically your guys 'should' get an entry, but to say they've got auto entry is stretching the truth abit, unless as I say you've got some big hitters that you've not released as yet.

Aside to the details of entry, I like your concept and wish you well, definately see team racing as the way of the future for ITU racing and hope it goes well for you.

We are in negotiations for the rest of our team, but these guys are our up and comers of the sport. They are definitely not auto entry, but I have high hopes for them. I really want our team to get more attention to the ITU races. With WTC buying Olympic distance races and Lance making a return to the sport, I think that the future is bright. Let's just hope that we can all get enough funding to hold overseas training camps like TBB!
Thanks for the well wishes and please come introduce yourself at a race. Your profile doesn't say much about you!

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

Does your team pay for your overseas training camps? I think that most pros that are not on a team have to pay their own way to do any sort of training. They might even have to pay for their coach.
I really respect the idea of a team taking care of athletes. That is why we started an ITU team. Don't worry we are focusing on ITU races so we shouldn't compete with TBB too much! Maybe with more teams, companies will see that their investment in sponsorship is a good idea. Let's hope so!
Good luck.

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

 
Alot of the more successful NF's (Oz, NZ, GB etc) all support their athletes by way of performance enhancement grants etc for training camps / coaches these days. But the trade off is again, you'd have to support 'The Programme' and be committed to the goals of the federation, which invariably is gaining the maximum three spots for Olympics. It's all about that 3rd spot for the next two seasons.

I'm not sure what the set up is with Team TBB, but I'm guessing it's very much 'user pays', I'd be very surprised if there's a federation in the world that'd pay you to go on one of their camps (but that's a whole other issue).

The athletes on TeamTBB are own their own to pay travel, housing, food, etc. when away at camp. When they have a coach like Sutton there on a daily basis doling out the workouts, it's enough impetus to get athletes to make a major financial commitment. I should know.

-

---

Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

I have heard the same rumors about Sutton that everyone else has, but I have no first hand experience. Of course, you probably have more experience in the tri world than most Jay. I wish that teams could offer more (financially) to their athletes. I think that teams offer sponsors a better ROI than individual athletes. Well 95%. Crowie has his own iPhone app and Macca has his own brand, MaccaX. These guys are doing a great job of marketing themselves. As a team of younger guys (and maybe a dark horse or two) it is tough to get financing to support them. Do we need support from non triathletes? Larger groups of spectators? More TV coverage? People spend a lot of money on Nascar logos to advertise. Does being one small logo on a car covered with 30 different brands actually increase sales of that product? Would buying logo space on my athletes (or any others) increase awareness of a brand? God let's hope so.

---

Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.

Well, you gotta give lots of credit to the team manager, Alex Bok; he's the one selling the team to sponsors, creating an infrastructure for athletes to interact with fans at their forum, posting frequent blog updates, etc. as well as integrating a social component with an interest in identifying and working with Asian athletes to grow the sport over there. (While Jocelyn is the vocal American, there are quite a few quiet, unknown Fillipinos—like a great local duathlete named August—that Brett has done amazing things with in teaching to swim.) Race results are important to Cervelo, Avia, etc., but so too, evidently, is the social component. Macca and Crowie can market themselves, but the team has created a platform for otherwise lesser-known athletes to market themselves as well, which is pretty valuable.

-

---

Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

What salary? I made @ $1500 one year and a $400 ITU bonus. Should have kept my day job.........

Ruthy V.
www.irondevilgirl.com

Are you from Australia?

Oh my gosh!! People in triathlon just don't get it do they? It's not the sport that determines how much an athlete is worth, it's the athlete! The athletes are the ones that need to make themselves marketable and not the sport. Right now the WTC and everyone else doesn't need the pros to get people to the races or to purchase product. However, if there was a time that came where a triathlete actually decided to make themselves marketable by being marketable in some way then they will make money. They need to stop waiting for the prize money and endorsements to come to them and become a commodity that will want to make the NON triathlete turn on the tv and watch them. I don't know about many others but I think I watched 5 minutes of the Tour D'France until Lance came along and I certainly as heck never watched a swimming race until Michael Phelps came sreaming through. The UFC had Tito and the Ice Man and Randy "The Natural" Couture to make them marketable. I'm new to the sport but have found the addiction and love it and it gives me accomplishable dreams to go after. However, it was never the "Pro" triathlete that inspired me but my 62 year old mom who did Kona in 85 or my father in law that has 16 IM's under his belt. That is who got me to "turn on and watch," not any pro. Therefore, until there comes a day when a pro triathlete actually becomes a marketable commodity and helps to bring other non athletes out to watch or turn on the tv then I will say they should get more money but I won't have to because they will be making it then. Lance made himself marketable in his sports largest race as did Michael Phelps in his sports largest event. Unfortunately, triathlon doesn't have a Lance or Michael running around anywhere. I hate to say this but I think it would be a huge lift to all the other Pro Triathletes if they allowed Andy Potts to dominate for awhile to bring more attention to the sport. You think ESPN is going to show an Aussie winning the IM WC? Why would they care? BTW David Beckam wasn't the greatest soccer player ever but he knew how to market himself....................unlike most triathletes! Now if we had a pro triathlete that came out and was brash and cocky and said he was going to "win" Kona............and did.....or whatever then everyone would bash him in our sport. Yet we all loved Muhammed Ali? It's just so amazing to me how so many of the pro triathletes push themselves to the brink physically so often yet they are so lazy about marketing themselves. As Rich Dad says.............Be an entrepeneur NOT an employee!

In replying to Salmon Steve:

The three featured athletes on your site are from 3 different countries. How do you intend to send a 'team' to ITU races "just to help each other win", bearing in mind Olympic Qualification begins in 7 months and NF's all get a set quota of entries and would surely be reluctant to give spots in order to support your team? Or do you all intend to race as "ITU Athletes"? I know you used to be able to do that, although not sure if it's still the case with the new WCS?
------------------------------------------------------------------------


As I would see it NF's would be all for Team Checkmate. A countries quota starts at 1 athlete M/F for the Olympics. The more athletes the country can get highly ranked the better their chances of being able to send the maximum three athletes.

Take the USA in the 2008 Olympic qualification. THey found themselves in a dog fight with 3 other countries (Russia,Canada,Australia) for the final two 3-member teams. Matty Reed had to travel the world, literally (South Aftrica, Madrid, Israel, Vancouver..) to try and secure a 3-man roster for the USA. With his great early season results he did just that. Problem was he was spent...he had built his season up around peaking at Vancouver when he should have been able to peak for Beijing.

A team such as Checkmate could have benefited him and the US in getting better results at Beijing no questions asked!

dude, you have to get out more ..Phelps, Armstrong, Potts . The sporting world is bigger than just the USA. Believe it or not the TDF has a 200 year history (not a 10 year one)

If Potts can't win, then he's not good enough!
And besides there are a lot more charismatic triathletes around the world doing some great work

Hey, I like Ultra Tri Guy, but in this case, my friend, why don't we give young Jocelyn big kudos for finishing in the money for the second time in 3 weeks...first Florida and now Cozumel. 3 IM's in 2 weeks and both times top 10. That's a pretty solid month for any pro...granted the prize money is still a joke (to address the title of this thread), but those are quite solid results that most people would kill for!

Welcome to the forum Miss Jen and demonstrating that two Wongs do make it right.

Sure it's financially stupid, but believing in yourself and having the balls to go after your dream is something money can't buy. I'm not going to be someone who sits in an office hating my job and always wondering "what if?"

Do you pity the people that are stuck on the societal-work gerbil wheel? Being told they have to work this job because that's what you do once you leave school. That if you don't you'll never amount to anything. That if you don't throw yourself at a career you'll have nothing once you are done with your first career. Then you find yourself living out your days confined by four walls and flourescently lit from above. I like your line... "having the balls to go after your dream is something money can't buy" ...and it's something those so struck with fear about their own demise will never experience. Live life with no limitations or confines or stipulations.

Live YOUR life... make it happen.

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

There is help for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkVYDo8vVLc

Born and raised in Hong Kong to Australian parents.My family lived in Hong Kong from '59 thru '80 before heading to Tianjin,China where they worked until my dads retirement in '93.My eldest brother had been working and living in China for the past 20 years adding his own Chinese family to ours.Sadly he died of a heart attack at work in the Sheraton Sanya on Hainan Island five weeks ago at the age of 49 and we had an amazing Chinese funeral for him.We have spent the last month making sure his widow and her family are going to be looked after properly.

Here is a little insight into why I have been questioning Jocelyns claim that she is an Asian athlete.It was during my trip to Sanya and Hong Kong last month that the topic of foriegn athletes claiming Hong Kong representation came up among my circle of friends in HK.We have always been heavily involved in one particular sport in HK and during a weekend with a couple of them being on the Olympic committee for that particular sport.It seems there is a bit of infighting among the administrators because they have allowed one particular athlete to represent Hong Kong at the recent Asian Games when this person was not born in or has ever lived in HK.This athlete has a weathly relative in HK and as anyone in HK knows,it's not what you know but who you know that counts and as a result he has recieved a huge grant to compete and has attracted local sponsorship.Our problem is that his grant and sponsorship money was allocated to some local athletes who have contributing to this sport for years and now they will see none of it.His family has the money to support him but he is taking the sponsorships instead at the expence of the development funds for others on the fringes of the team.Too often,poor Asian athletes who have little chance of earning the money to compete internationally have their sponsorship opportunities dashed by slick,media savy westerners who claim Asian representation by ancestry and move to Asian countries in order to compete in their chosen sport.More often than not those western "Asians" return to thier country of residence after the seasons end and contribute nothing to the development and growth of the local association that supported them.That pisses me off!!

Thankfully it would seem Jocelyn is not like that and she is most certainly giving more than she is asking by way of her great prosthetic charity work.She is obviously a popular member of team TBB and is a talented self promoter so I wish her well with her athletic aspirations.My only issue with her is that she is marketing herself as "the original Asian triathlon superstar" which is just plain wrong.

.

So are you telling me that none of the TDF participants made more money because of the increased popularity of the tour in the USA because of Lance? USA has more endorsement revenue than all of Europe combined. Just because something has been in existance for 200 years doesn't mean that someone can't bring it to another level. If I remember correctly the TV audience almost doubled this year compared to last............

Thanks for your kind help,dickhead!

.

In what .. it's not exactly spread broadly across all sports. Forget the 'World Series', Gridiron and B'ball, there is a lot more sponsorship money for cycling, football and other global sports in Europe.

Don't know where you get your TV figures, but I suspect they are domestic, as just as you like American athletes, Germans like German athletes, French like French athletes etc. It may come as a bit of a shock but the world will not suddenly go triathlon mad if Potts stumbles to IM victory. I suspect more Germans would tune in to German world champ than Americans would to an American world champ

Enough talk ......................... heres a goal :



Time to get back training.


G.
www.TriathlonShots.com

---

http://www.TriathlonShots.com
Full event coverage of triathlon/ironman in photos.

Now there you have a superstar.Great pic of a great champion.

Now that you have gone and motivated me I'd better get training so I don't get chicked too badly in Malaysia.



.

I think we should have a tri event where you can drink beers and tell Bill Murray jokes while competing. Then we start to get sponsor dollars.

---

Sheldon Brown is my homeboy.

"Alright, virgins to the left, non-virgins to the right..."

Now where's the beer?

Pro's look like NASCAR cars. They're covered in logos.

Pancake's 3 steps to triathlon fame:

1) Stop bitching about lack of money until we (the pros) can market ourselves better

2) Let Andy win to promote sport

3) Act cocky and back it up

Does anyone else have better ideas for what we pros can do to add value? What pros do you look up to, and why? Are there pros who you follow? Do you follow pro results? Where?

---

Ben Collins
Amateur Swimmer, Amateur Cyclist, Amateur Runner...
...Professional Triathlete.
It's not the length that matters, but what you do with it.

The only difference is the Pro's don't receive any money for it (with a few exceptions).

---

--------------------------------------------------------

http://vistica.wordpress.com

Does anyone else have better ideas for what we pros can do to add value? What pros do you look up to, and why? Are there pros who you follow? Do you follow pro results? Where?

Thought it was about time I tried to sum things up with a posting on my blog:

http://stevefleck.blogspot.com/...nal-triathletes.html

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Bump from the archives.......

Love this post and agree entirely !

Terry

---

"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

If you had the choice between a job here :

LondonDetailed forecast Thursday
White Cloud
Max Temperature: 23°C 73°F
Min Temperature: 15°C 59°F Friday
White Cloud
Max Temperature: 25°C 77°F
Min Temperature: 17°C 63°F Saturday





Or chasing endless Summers in pursuit of triathlon stardom,


what would you choose? You can always retire in London or such like if you miss the grey kies and short Winter days.





G.

---

http://www.TriathlonShots.com
Full event coverage of triathlon/ironman in photos.

My 2 cents.
I don't belive triathlon will ever generate big money for the pros the way some other sports do. Here is why:

1. Triathlon does not have the participation numbers of golf or skiing. We're growing but lets face it, most Americans could never participate in a sport that requires such a high level of dedication, fitness and funds (TRI is not a cheap sport).
2. Triathlon does not connect to the average 'Joe' the way Basketball or NASCAR does. Every 'Joe Beerbelly' thinks he could have been a NASCAR driver (based on how well he burned donuts in the school parking lot with his '85 TransAM), or a forward for the Lakers based on the 10 baskets he made in his driveway.
3. As an endurance sport its not suited as well for mass audiences on TV. Two to eight hours of solitary swimming-biking-running is exciting for the participant but not as much for the observer.
4. The sport is too international for mass appeal in the USA - too many 'foreigners' keep winning.

Nevertheless, its good to see big cheques at events like the ITU HyVee. Big money like that should stimulate some very good competition. Its a win for the pros and for fans.