Sounds like me. I try to eat quality foods and I never gain weight unless I dont work out for more than 3 weeks.

That used to fit me fairly accurately. But, now, sometimes I have to forego the nightly ice cream for a few days in a row in order to keep my % body fat at my goal.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

when I training I can eat whatever I want but I tend to crave healthy when my training volume is high, In the off season I start to crave the bad things, consequently I put on about 15 lbs last fall. This year I scheduled a mid dec. race to keep me on the skinny.

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

If you burn more than you consume, you'll lose weight

If you burn less than you consume, you'll gain weight.

If you balance what you consume with what you eat, your weight will be stable.

Look at your weekly input/output as a better guide.

Calorie types don't matter for your purpose, but those trying to lose weight need to get the critical nutrition.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

That is exactly the type of myth I'm trying to make people see is total malarky. If you exercise your body throws away any excess stuff it doesn't need. Regardless of whether you eat 10K more calories than you need every day of your life you'll not gain any weight.

So what is minium amount of training for your theory to work?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

How many of you don't care how many calories you eat?

>> I do. I have X hours weekly to train, so I only burn a set number of calories per week, and to maintain a set w/kg power output, my goal race weight has to remain at 72.6 kilos (6'0" tall). I have to consume a set level of calories.

that's not a myth...
ride 4h every day and run 1h and swim 1h and eat 12000kcal a day and you'll gain weight.

That isn't a myth that is the simplest realism in diet.

You get your energy from the calories, you store what you don't burn. Period.

Different people burn them at different rates during rest, and their individual needs are extremely complex, but you cannot maintain your weight if you consume more than you use.

That isn't a myth.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I don't mean to be rude, but how would one eat 12,000Kcal a day and still do anything else, including exercise? I think most people would get bored on their 4th bowl of cereal in the morning.

Eating never gets boring my friend. It only gets better.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

because when every says I eat so many calories a day, it's wrong...
an apple is about 60Kcal not 60cal...

12000 kcal is what curm. had chosen in his example.

but then assume
4h of cycling at 1000kcal an hour (meaning you are pushing already quite a bit)
1h of running at 6'/mi for someone about 70k that's about 1100kcal on the flat
1h of swimming say 1000kcal

total: 6100kcal

eat 10,000kcal a day and you put on weight. eat 9,000 you may get away with it as all the training will increase your basal metabolism

I agree, but that is my morning meal. I will down around 5-10 bowls of cereal in the morning. People think it is funny that I fall asleep while eating, they just don't understand it is a 1-2 hour process.

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Reverend Dr. Jay
Lake of the Pines Triathlon fastest bike course record holder - Golden State Super Sprint fastest tri course record holder - Wildflower Long Course slowest run course record holder (4:46:32)

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"If you have a body, you are an athlete." -Bill Bowerman

I don't think people realize just HOW MUCH food you can eat if it's "eahlty food". Eating healthy, it actually takes quite a bit of effort to gain weight. People look at my lunches and ask "how can you not be fat?". I point out that I exercise ~10 hours a week and that my huge lunch has half as many calories as their little "from the cafeteria" lunch.

The difference is that I am willing to prepare a meal for the next few days ... they aren't. I still can't see how folks are not willingot prepare a healhty meal for 2-3 while they are watching TV ... it's not like the food won't cook unless it's being watched.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Good point. Some foods use up more vitamins being digested than they put back in ... regardless of calories.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

You should start a diet for unsuspecting Americans, telling them they can eat a million calories per day and still lose weight. After you get their money, you tell them you're not talking about "dietary" calories (ie kcal's).

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I started doing triathlon's just for this reason. I was overweight, I needed some sort of sport to keep me motivated to exercise, but allow me to eat anything I want to... a'la... triathlon. I hit a low of 177 this season, which is about 28 pounds since I started training in Nov '02. I've gained a few more back since my "A" race, but looking forward to the upcoming season and another year of weight loss.



I'm convinced that I can get my 21 year old physique back!!!! It just takes this 34 year old a little longer then it used to.

You go out and run, fast as you can three times a week for 5 miles, and you can eat as much as you desire. Something about the shaking up of your body, as is done by running fast, tells your body to flush the excess food. So the calories never get absorbed. Further more it tells your body to get rid of the fat if you have any. This doesn't take long to see results, maybe 3 to 6 months. I've done this for 45 years off and on. Sometimes I can't and I get a bit fat. (Because I never stop eating.) However as soon as I start running off goes the excess weight. Now this wouldn't apply to people doing things like lifting weights. There it's probably a function of calories vs work. And that would be time consuming.

So all you people who can run go out and run and eat like you have always wanted to eat!

That's total nonsense. Like SuperDave said, your caloric balance determines whether you gain or lose weight.

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Well then don't believe me. Go count calories. Your loss.

kcal = 1000 cals....

(k) is an abbreviation for one thousand....

kcal, Kcal, Cal and cal are not the same animals, kcal is NOT the correct abbreviation for calories, due to massive missuse, including by me, you see it done everyday...

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houstonadventureracing.com (H.A.R.T.)
houstonracing.com (Houston TriClub )

"You get your energy from the calories..."

False. A calorie is a unit of measure, a way to describe an amount of energy. This is like saying that you get your weight from kilograms. Sorry to be literal, but this entire subject is a pet peeve. When talking about food, a calorie is a measure of the potential energy of food when processed by the body. You get your energy from your body oxidizing the food you eat, this energy can be measured in calories.

"...you store what you don't burn. Period."

Ever eat corn or peanuts?? Why does crap have so much damned potential energy in it?

Food that is eaten is either "processed", stored, or excreted. You can consume more than you "use" and still lose weight.

The vast majority of what you consume is absorbed, absent some pathology like pancreatic insufficiency. While this might be technically true, for practical purposes it's useless

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Ok, the measure of what is capable of being used is the calorie. I don't think anyone wants to read my dissertation on obesity. I'm aware of the "calorie" as a unit of potential energy and have used a bomb calorimeter to measure and record countless samples.

I was speaking in laymen's terms when I said you need to consume less than you use to lose weight. Yes, a small amount will be lost in excrement.

I don't like to talk about feces.

I would also concede that there is much about biology that I don't know, that mitochondria even within the same organism have different "metabolisms" and that some react positively to stress (increased E output) and some negatively (fatigue). I'm not really clear on the whys and hows. I'm just a dumb bike geek.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

"I don't like to talk about feces."

Ahh that gave me a good laugh. You might be too mature for this board.

I know nothing about biology and I'm happy to admit it. But my BS meter gets pegged whenever topics like this come up. I think what gets me is the tendency to oversimplify the whole thing. The fact is that nutritionists know very little relative to all there is to know about how the human body works. In an effort to make things easy, oversimplifications are made and people end up taking these things to extremes. One need look no further than the current carbs are evil craze as an example.

I [i]was[/i] trying to oversimplify. These were the terms laid out from the subject.

"Calories don't matter" is what we are talking about here. There isn't much thought in that is there?

reducing your carb intake may help you lose weight, but not nearly as much as increasing your heroin intake.

Not too many bloated heroin addicts. That's the miracle diet drug.

Belgian cocktails for all.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

"Calories don't matter" is what we are talking about here. There isn't much thought in that is there?


Touche.

"reducing your carb intake may help you lose weight, but not nearly as much as increasing your heroin intake.

Not too many bloated heroin addicts. That's the miracle diet drug. "

Bingo, an excellent example of taking something to an extreme.

It depends on the season for me.

During training season, I can pretty much eat however much I want...providing it's "healthy".

However, during the off months, I REALLY need to watch my quantity...I like to eat.



Either way, once a week I PIG OUT all day. A large pizza in one sitting, a pint of whole ice cream, rack of ribs, 12 White Castles...whatever I crave for the day. (Sometimes I get an upset stomach) I really do feel that is keep my system in check by saying "oh shit...I better start working"

I'm at 175 now and will get down to 160 before IMAZ.....or 165 if I hard hitting the weights.

Yep. I expect many of us train year round minus a few weeks. Just a way of life. And it allows us to eat and eat and eat and eat. For us calories have no meaning. Let those who don't exercise by running count carbs.

>>The vast majority of what you consume is absorbed, absent some pathology like pancreatic insufficiency. While this might be technically true, for practical purposes it's useless

Is it really true that we absorb most of what we consume? From personal experience there comes a point when I "feel" like I am not able to process any more food in a day. Common sense would lead you to believe that your body has a limit to the quantity that can be absorbed in a given period.

How many kcal can I absorb if I eat 5,000 in 24 hours? How much will I absorb if I eat 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, etc. in a day? I guess the question is are you capable of eating more than you can digest and that you will pass the rest through. That is my guess but I have no facts to back up this guess, has anyone ever seen any reasearch on this?

I haven't but look around at athletes through history. I don't think many were watching their calories if they even knew what a calorie was. Instead they eat until they are happy. Their body passes the excess on through and grabs what it needs. Simple as that.

This ludicrous idea of counting calories is a fad that should be laughed off forums where athletes reside. Leave calorie counting to people who can't exercise or nutritionists dealing with the general public.

I would agree that counting calories is laborious and I don't do it. However, that said, some quite extraordinary athletes, like L.Armstrong do it (or the equivalent--he weighs his food, or so I read).

If we are healthy, humans do process most of what eat. And related to this, is that there have been a number of very, very compellling studies that have gotten results that indicate a moderate level of caloric restriction (on regular average folks not fat ones, and on all kinds of mammals) has profoundly postive effects on numerous important and visible health markers. If you want references, let me know.

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Where would you want to swim ?

How many kcal can I absorb if I eat 5,000 in 24 hours? How much will I absorb if I eat 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, etc. in a day? I guess the question is are you capable of eating more than you can digest and that you will pass the rest through. That is my guess but I have no facts to back up this guess, has anyone ever seen any reasearch on this?

I read an article years ago on the theoretical limits of endurance exercise and from what small amount of that brain sludge that I can still draw on I seem to remember an argument that there was some limit of 10-12K of calories that a normal size person could process in 24 hours operating under some ficticious percentage of their VO2 max. But I don't recall that there was hard research as much as ancillary evidence that the article was based on and from what I recall the article was mostly a thought experiment prompted by the RAAM bike race.

JJ

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Every night that I run, the thought crosses my mind that there's no way in hell I'll still be running a month from now.

Well, you're right - there has to be an upper limit on what the body can handle. I'm postive that limit is not 5000cal, nor probably even 10,000.

If you're not 1) vomiting or 2) noticing dramatic differences in your stool quality, you're probably aborbing the vast majority of calories consumed. I'm not sure how you are able to "feel" that you cannot absorb calories, unless you mean you feel like you can't eat any more.

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Gee, why do you think athletes don't need to count calories? Maybe because they are expending lots of energy in training so that their overall caloric balance is even.

You're observation is correct, but your explanation is lunacy. Did you just make it up? It's pretty obvious you're not a nurtitionis or doctor...

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You go out and run, fast as you can three times a week for 5 miles, and you can eat as much as you desire. Something about the shaking up of your body, as is done by running fast, tells your body to flush the excess food.



Sorry not true. I was running that much for many years, and my weight had gotten to 200lbs.When I first decided to start training for a triathlon I lost 10 lb pretty easy.My second season my goal was to lose 10 more lbs.But to do it I had to watch what I ate. I'm at 180 and I'd like to get down to 170. Right now I run 25 to 30 miles (+swim & bike)a week. I never eat fast food.No sweats. And I've cut down on the carbs.Yet my weight will drop to 178 one week and then go back to 180 the next.

On another note I work with a women who eats nothing but junk food all day every day and is as skinny as a rail. But she cant sit still or shut her mouth. The only time she puts down her cigarette and cup of coffee is to put more food in her mouth.

So my point is we are not all the same when it comes to calories.

Dave

So, for one reason or another (becasue of just too many calories in your stomach at any one time, or just that your body "senses" that you don't need anymore calories) some people don't just crap out their excess calories?

Sorry for being gross. Any studies done on feces to test the ubiquitous of the calories coming out? LOL Do we as humans digest all of our calories, or does some of it pass through to one degree or another, and does if vary between people?

   

Let me just say that if your body could magically sense when it didn't need calories, there'd be no fat people.

There'd also be a lot more death in years past when storing up fat for the winter was advantageous.

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"This ludicrous idea of counting calories is a fad that should be laughed off forums where athletes reside"

While it is true from my post above...I can eat pretty much anything I want. I do count calories when training....

So...laugh all you want, here's a little snap of my spreadsheet for a Friday/Sat in June.

Net result is this is what helps me reach my goals. I'd be the first to admit there are "errors" and "assumptions" in the math, but it's all about the behaviors to reach your goals....not always the end result.

Well yes, it's well known that predators don't digest all their food. Only some 30% of it. That's why their are many other animals that eat Lion crap. They can live on what the predators crap out.

Humans also don't digest all they eat. Take a look in the toilet after you take a crap. You'll see corn and many grains in just about the same state as when you eat them. Doesn't take rocket science to figure out those sunflower seeds didn't get digested.

As for there being people who run. I said hard running. Where your whole body shakes. If you do something like ride a bike, lift weights, or something else that doesn't shake up your body you'll get fat. Hence all the fat people who are fast yet ride their bikes all day. You don't see that with runners, gymnists, sprinters, etc., because there is obviously some feedback to your digestive system that you need a lean body.

Use some common sense and think about these things.

Some of the things you say do make a lot of sense. Fiber doesn't get digested (by us, but cows do fine with this). Items not chewed don't always get digested, or get limited digestion.

And, yes, some fat people ride bikes. But most pro bike riders don't do sports that 'shake up your body', but there is no way you could say they are fat or anything close.

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Where would you want to swim ?

I give up.

Enjoy your fantasy world.

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That is a funny retort. I guess we all feel like that somedays...

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Where would you want to swim ?

It's a little like arguing with a 2-year old, or Cousin Elwood.

Things are a certain way to them because, well, it's just that that way in their heads. Facts be damned.

(I'm mostly kidding about Elwood, I kind of like the crusty old goat)

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 [quote id="jhc"]
You should start a diet for unsuspecting Americans
That's total nonsense
You're observation is correct, but your explanation is lunacy.
Let me just say that if your body could magically sense when it didn't need calories, there'd be no fat people.
Enjoy your fantasy world.
[/quote]

Can't say I'll miss your snide thoughtless remarks if you do manage to move on.

1 word: TROLL!

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I wasn't trying to personally attack you. But when you make statements like:

"That is exactly the type of myth I'm trying to make people see is total malarky. If you exercise your body throws away any excess stuff it doesn't need. Regardless of whether you eat 10K more calories than you need every day of your life you'll not gain any weight. "

and

"You go out and run, fast as you can three times a week for 5 miles, and you can eat as much as you desire. Something about the shaking up of your body, as is done by running fast, tells your body to flush the excess food. So the calories never get absorbed. Further more it tells your body to get rid of the fat if you have any."

and

"Instead they eat until they are happy. Their body passes the excess on through and grabs what it needs. Simple as that. This ludicrous idea of counting calories is a fad that should be laughed off forums where athletes reside. Leave calorie counting to people who can't exercise or nutritionists dealing with the general public. "

and

"Hence all the fat people who are fast yet ride their bikes all day."

...to a forum where a lot of scientifically-minded people hang out, you are going to called on it. If you can provide any evidence to back your statements up, I invite you to do so. Note that the presence of corn in feces does not in anyway support the idea that runners (but not cyclists) can workout hard 3x per week and the body will automatically absorb only the calories "needed". If you cannot cite any evidence, I would ask that you 1) do not tell me to use "common sense" - I have plenty thank you, and 2) consider the possibility that your theory is incorrect.

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