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Let's settle this once and for all
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Draft-legal triathlon is real triathlon, just a different type. Most of the people here who say it isn't don't know what they are talking about. The ITU guys swim, bike, and run. That's triathlon. It's a lot more exciting, brings a lot of fresh talent that some day might move up to the longer distances, and it also draws sponsors (read: money) and publicity.

ITU races might not have the glamoure of spending 5 hours by yourself on a bike (which is boring as hell), but those of you who say they aren't working have obviously never raced in a real draft-legal race. You so called 'strong cyclist' who bike under 5 hours for 180k won't last 5 minutes on a hilly ITU course. The surges, attacks and strong pace will leave you in the dust before you knew what hit you. I will agree that there are some races where the main pack will sometimes sit and do nothing, but those races are getting fewer because the courses are getting hillier. You don't work you don't last.

Long distance triathlon attracts a lot of age groupers because of the swim/bike/run ratio. Most AG's suck at swimming and are glad the swim is relatively short. Running, well, running is hard. It's hard on the bones and joints, it's hard on the muscles, and it's hard getting up early when you know you're going to suffer. Cycling is totally different. A long distance bike ride is something most people like because it's easy. You eat, you chat, and let's face it, you don't work as hard as when you run. It also lets you spend money, which apparently a lot of people here like to do.

Finally you say a drafting race isn't a real triathlon race, but what about IM racing? From what I've seen on this forum and gordo's forum, IM racing is basically a long day of looking at your heart rate monitor and pedaling/putting one foot after the other. "Oh no I've gone over 120 bpm, better slow down my pace". You call that racing? In most ITU races the athletes don't even wear a watch. Things happen and you gotta react. There are breakaways and attacks and people go all out from start to finish. IM races are so unpredictable, and usually atleast one of the favorites will drop out because one reason or another. Outside of Kona, there are usually only 2-5 favorites in a race, and the winner will be the one who slows down the least, not the one who goes the fastest.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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"You call that racing?"

Ironman racing is real racing, just a different type. Most of the people here who say it isn't don't know what they are talking about. The Ironman guys swim, bike, and run to be the first. That's racing.

Your just as big a sport snob as those who complain about ITU racing. Personaly it's all tri to me.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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hey kid,

come back when you've done one and give your opinion again...deal?

"It was a really hard and lonely day out there, my legs hurt so bad" (Simon Lessing after LP...guess he knows tri quite a bit)
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I am not sure where you live but in the US we have other races besides IM that are non-drafting>sprints, olympic, 1/2 ironman, etc.... In fact most races in the US are non drafting, thats how triathlon originally started in the US. To say that people just watch their HRM's and dont push hard is ignorant. Sunday there is tri is chicago that most people and myself will go balls out for the entire race to place in age group, get a personal best, etc..... The pros will do the same and they wont have to worry about people in a chase pack saving their legs for the run, they will have to push hard in all THREE events, all day. In two weeks I will go to Ironman Wisconsin, I will use an HRM and wont go balls out, if I did I wouldnt finish, its called pacing, thats the smart way to do an Ironman. ITU and non drafting races (how triathlon was originally raced) are different and different strategies are needed. Some people like original triathlon and others like Euro/ITU stuff, not everyone will agree, both have great athletes. I think its great that an Ironman athlete won the Gold in the womens race!


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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I agree and disagree with you.

Points why I agree with you...

Why is everyone such a Lance Armstrong fan? All he does is ride in a draft legal format? Anyone could do that right? Why is it exciting to watch bike racing but boring to watch ITU racing? They are both draft legal...

Points why I disagree with you...

Doing anything for 8 or 9 hours without a break is physically and mentally draining. Even at work we take washroom and coffee breaks regularly. All the more impressive is that Peter Reid et al hold a pace in their marathon that I am not sure I could hold for a 5k.



In short both are triathlons. Both are impressive athletic feats. Relative to the standard athletic contest of the olympics they are both endurance events with the triathlon only being edged out by the marathon and road cycling as the longest duration event.

In swimming we never shunned the open-water guys by saying that they weren't real swimmers b/c they drafted....

____________________________________________

"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois come back when you actually finish a race, k?
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Ed in IL] [ In reply to ]
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Good post, Ed. They're just different versions of the same sport. Both have great athletes. For me, triathlon is a TT, not a road race.

I prefer non-drafting races whether they are short or long course. When I want to watch drafting races, I watch cycling.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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"Most here who say it isn't don't know what they are talking about."

Mark Allen,
Chris McCormack,
Ze Gopha, Just to name a few.

Seriously though, try watching the DVD Triathlon "Throught the eye's of the elite" those elite level athlete don't seem to pleased with the call.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Freestyle sure is posting the strong opinions lately. Based on what high level athletic experience? Experience changes perspective. In other words ... view opinions with the experience of the author in mind.

For many of us, our opinions at 15 were vastly different at 25 ... after we've competed at high level (college or pro) athletics and against people that went on to become pros or elite pros.

1. You have to cut him (freestyle) some slack, when you realize that in his world (i.e. experience level) things are more black and white then they will be in his world 10 years later.

2. Free ... you also have to realize that you are commenting on things (quality of decalthletes, racing, etc) and saying things that you really don't have the qualification (i.e. experience) to say. The result will be regret/embarassment down the road for saying things that you will think were "dumb" as you become more experienced. We all cross that line and then stumble back across it from time to time. Be careful not to make it a habit.

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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Screw reasoning with us, let's just start calling names.

You Opraholic.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Freestyle, rather than personally attacking Francois, consider both types of racing as being good and both being real triathlon. At least Francois has the guts to put his name to his posts and talks equally about his good and bad races. Many just talk about their races when they are studly. I give the man credit for being open with what he has done. If you have done an Ironman, post your results, so then we can see that you are speaking from a position of experience and knowledge, rather than just attacking ironmans as being day of 120 bpm with putting one leg in front of another. Both types of racing have their merit.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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well, I talk more about the bad ones...with a good reason :-)
the difference is that now, I don't give a rat's ass what people think.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry Francois, I didn't mean to personally attack you. <3
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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no worries...

I didn't take it that way...could have phrased my answer more diplomatically...
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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You guy's are all fat, lazy, Detroit Lions fans.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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francois has put up IM times that most of us dream about. the gamble with ironman is that as you get faster, the chance of explosion is much much greater. thats why pros often dont finish races. show a little respect. when you beat his times then challenge him to a debate.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I'm glad I didn't have access to the internet when I was 15 - I say stupid enough sh*t these days... much worse then. ;)

I don't really like draft-legal tri that much, but I think if it's going to be that way, there should be better team strategy in the Olympics with a clear leader and a couple of dometiques. It would make the cycling more interesting.

_______________________________________________
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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" I don't give a rat's ass what people think"

that's because you're French!

now, if you were a silly English k- nigget...



Opraholic! I love it.


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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know you or Francois but those would be fighting words where I come from.

I certainly hope that you either show more restraint when talking to people in person or know how to run away and hide.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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I was ok with all the bullshit until you starting picking on the Lions. Carefull, us boys from the "D" are tough - whatever the rules are : )
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I love any thread where one guy is ready to settle something once and for all for the rest of us.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Both draft-legal and non-drafting swim-bike-run events are obviously triathlon. I think that one of the issues that many (myself included) with the draft-legal format is that it was invented for the elite racers only and for the primary reason of increasing the popularity among audiences (not athletes) so that the powers that be could get the sport into the Olympics. Most age-groupers never get the chance to do that type of racing so it is alien to us except for the fact that it combines swimming, biking and running. It obviously is challenging and it certainly is nice to see that the ITU is actually choosing some courses that allow strong cyclists to do well. I raced worlds in Montreal as an age grouper in 1999 and that course was 9 loops of the Formula 1 race circuit so anyone who wasn't a strong cyclist could sit in and coast. At that time, the sport seemed to heavily favour the non-cyclist. Comments like Barrie Shepley made in this morning's coverage of the Olympics don't help the issue .... he mentioned that the French athletes would be taking turns doing the lead except for their man who placed 5th since he was the strong runner and needed to sit in .... fortunately the course was so hard and the pace so tough that it took enough out of him that he wasn't able to just scamper away on the run. I found the men's race to be a pretty good representation of a ability since more men were willing to go for it on the bike and work as a pack. Except for the few women that pushed off the front, the big pack in the women's race looked like they were riding pretty easily in many of the views we were given on tv. There is also a totally different set of strategies involved. When you do a non-drafting race you are pacing against others around you and trying to measure your efforts so that you can get to the finish line as fast as possible. In the ITU style races, team tactics and lack of tactics (I still don't know why no one else tried to jump in with Bennett today and make an attempt at bridging the gap and stealing the race) play a much bigger role.

As for freestyles's comments about ironman. There is a big difference between "doing" an ironman and "racing" an ironman and to make comments about "just keep your heart rate below 120" is silly. I would guess that it would be much easier for a sub-5 hour ironman cyclist to do a couple of weeks of speed work and be able to handle so surges in an ITU style race than it would be for an ITU style racer to hop in and crank a 4:45 ironman split.

Both tris. Just different and since most of us don't race the ITU circuit, we obviously prefer the non-drafting format.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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relax all, freestyle is a good kid (ok, 34 ain't too old, but 15 is really really young mate, that's why I call you kid :-))

I answered a bit harshly and he answered something which is good to remind me every now and then...that I didn't have a finish for a while...That stays in my mind for the next race and so I'll post 'how you like'em apples' :-)
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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My geeky buddies and I were accessing BBS's almost 20 years ago now...I was, hmm, how do you say...slightly less diplomatic back then ;-)

Freestyle, I agree with you about ITU racing requiring massive amounts of talent as well as intelligent racing on hilly courses (as well as great short course run speed). I enjoy watching the hilly races. It is triathlon, just a different sort. Group influenced triathlon, you could call it.

I disagree about IM racing, it's far from boring (any training can get boring...how many laps are you counting per day?) and pretty darn tactical if you want to do it well.

Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Swim Series | Old School Aquathon Series
Powerstroke® Freestyle Technique DVD
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [MR BULLDOG] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone who completes one Ironman should, from this side, not be attacked at all, much less do as good as Francois has over the years. I'm talking about just doing one Ironman. What happens, I guess here, is that you do so many of them, you forget, how much of an accomplishment just doing ONE OF THEM is. Let me tell you, it is extraordinary to just complete one of them, probably without dying or going to an emergency room. I am serious.

Out in non triathlete society, if you just walked up to an old friend and said, "I just got through swimming 2 miles, biking 110 miles, and then running a marathon," that would cause the reaction of 1. Shock, 2. Praise, 3. More Shock. But, apparently, here, if you do one or several of them, its how fast did you go?, why did you stop? And so on. "Completing" is taken for granted.

Why do such things, if you lose track of just how extraordinary, doing just ONE OF THEM is.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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" would guess that it would be much easier for a sub-5 hour ironman cyclist to do a couple of weeks of speed work and be able to handle so surges in an ITU style race than it would be for an ITU style racer to hop in and crank a 4:45 ironman split."

it really depends on the background. I talked with Gordo about that, he has been unable to counter attacks in bike races in NZ (maybe it has changed)...
There are also some ITU guys that can ride very well and would post fast time with no problem (lessing and co)
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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You should change your nickname to Cole Trickle.



"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I went down and watched a local tennis tounament -- sure didn't look like Wimbleton, a lot slower, less power - but they were having fun and were serious about thier competition. And the rules were the same as the pros.

I watched a soccer game in the park -- didn't look like the world cup matches I have seen -- but the participants were serious about thier game. And the rules were the same as in the World cup.

I have done many staged bike races. We were a lot slower than they ride in the tour. But there were time trials, flat stages, hilly stages, break aways, bunch sprints. And the rules were the same as the pros.

Watched a highschool football game -- rules were the same.

Basketball -- same rules, Volleyball -- Same rules. You get the point.

The Sport of triathlon in which we participate is different from what the pros race on the ITU circuit and at the Olympics. Of course it is a Triathlon. But when we race an "Olympic" distance triathlon - it is non drafting and the stradegy is different, how you train is different, it is a different sport.

I would like to USA Triathlon develop a catagory system similar to USCF (USA Bicycliong) -- And have some races for cat 3 and above races that are drafting legal. Wave start the race - Cat 1,2,3 go first -- Draft legal format. 30 minutes later - Cat 4 & 5 go -- Non drafting. And you are racing in your catagory and in your age group.

This would help develop our younger age groupers into great pros.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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Riiiinnnngg......riiiiinnnngggg

Hello?

Yes, this is Mr. Logic.

What's that?

Why yes, I am missing my balls.
Last edited by: Ze Gopha: Aug 26, 04 13:29
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I follow your first paragraph and would agree it is still triathlon. It is kind of like the DH in baseball. But bad mouthing IM doesn't really help your case. Although it is a good move to get a reaction.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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darn, that was a baaaaaaad movie...
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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Screw reasoning with us, let's just start calling names.

HaHaha

You guy's are all fat, lazy, Detroit Lions fans.

Detroit ... that might be my Bears only two wins all year. ;)

I'm glad I didn't have access to the internet when I was 15 - I say stupid enough sh*t these days... much worse then.

With some of the dumb stuff I've said at 30, it's almost hard to imagine what kind of *ahem* expert knowledge/opinions I would have written at 15.

I love any thread where one guy is ready to settle something once and for all for the rest of us.

Best line in the whole thread.

"Once and for all ..." until next week's thread of "For the last time ..."

Did anyone in this thread change their opinion? Just another standard debate.

You should change your nickname to Cole Trickle.

... or Dick Trickle. [Wasn't the name from the movie, Cole Frickle?]

Dick Trickle and Ron Tugnutt ... 2 of the best names the sporting world has ever seen.

-----------------------------------

Is there anything that lasts for 8-17 hours that won't have boring stretches? (yes, even that might have a "less than exciting" stretch after 14 hours)

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
Last edited by: TripleThreat: Aug 26, 04 13:08
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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cole trickle was tom cruise in days of thunder, one of the worst movies ever made...good that nicole kidman was in it...otherwise really nothing to watch :-)
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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Tom Cruise played Cole Trickle in the movie Days of Thunder.



"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois ... comments like that could lead to deportation.

Americans like movies that don't have Roberto Benini in them.

Next thing you're gonna say is that the Rambo and Rocky series aren't the greatest movies of all time.

----------------------

You guys are right ... it is "Trickle". I knew it was Cole Frickle, Cold Pickle, or something like that.

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
Last edited by: TripleThreat: Aug 26, 04 13:23
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Sparticus] [ In reply to ]
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Sparticus: "how you train, it is a different sport"

Does Maurice Greene train for a different sport than Paula Radcliffe? Same sport, differnt event/format.



Quick question for all the non-drafting "purists" on this forum:
Have you ever done a draft legal triathlon? and I don't mean ITU caliber. Simply, podunk local race that is draft legal.

The few draft legal races I've done were extremely tough because the pace is dictated to you, but I won't get into it. Just looking to see if you have any first hand experience to claim that drafting is bs.

You all should come to Lake Louisa in Clermont, FL and get tooled on by Team Z. www.usat-ntc.com

Seriously, there are chances to particpate in draft-legal triathlon, especially for juniors and u/23 in the USAT series. IronKids is draft legal, as is Xterra, but that is probably a different sport b/c you have to train in the mud right?

Dre

Quit all your b*tching and celebrate the fact that our sport is growing and has lots of different an exciting formats all of which fall under the best sport around...TRIATHLON.

-Dre
RD at Clash Endurance

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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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rambo? rocky? hellllllllo :-)
you have plenty of great american movies, without Roberto Benigni in them...
like the groundhog day :-)
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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Francois "My favorite movie is Air Bud, Golden Reciever."

Triplethreat "I simply luved the Princess Diary's."

Dre "what's a movie."
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Both are Triathlon to me, just different skills are rewarded. It appears to me that ITU racing rewards best those that are really fast swimmers and runners, but not necessarily great cyclists. If one exits the water in the first groups and drafts most of the bike, and runs like a gazelle, this is the winning ticket. I seems to be much harder for the person who is a less than great swimmer, because, no matter how good a cyclist, it is hard to make up time solo against a drafting lead group, unless one happens to be able to hook up with like cyclists. This leaves a very difficult to overcome run deficit. I would think that a guy like Walton, who can leave everyone in the dust on the swim and bike, would be hurt by this since people could draft off of him and then leave him on the run, which is not his strong point.

One can't be a mediocre cyclist, but if one can keep up with the draft, the lead out of the water and strong run would put you among the leaders.

Non-drafting requires those of us mediocre cyclists to pull our own weight.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
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i think in the olympic tri u needed to be a strong cyclist.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [dre] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Sparticus: "how you train, it is a different sport"

Does Maurice Greene train for a different sport than Paula Radcliffe? Same sport, differnt event/format.


I would definiately call Sprinting a 100 Meters or 200 Meters on a track a different Sport that the marathon.

Thank you for proving my point! Yes, both are running - but is it the same kind of running?? Do they train the same? Run the same mileage? Run the same intervals? Wear the same shoes?

Different event and format?? No -- that would be the 100 Meters vs. the 200 meters - different event, same all out sprint, wearing the same shoes, trained for the same. Different Format - That would be Boston marathon vs. New York marathon.

Again -- Thanks for Proving my point
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Sparticus] [ In reply to ]
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By your argument IM racing is also a different sport than short course triathlon period whether it is drafting or not.

Marathon and 100M are both running events just as IM and Olympic triathlon are both triathlon.

IF A RACE HAS SWIMMING, CYCLING AND RUNNING IT IS A TRIATHLON!

One is not better or worse, just different disciplines within the same sport.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [mikedonia] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
By your argument IM racing is also a different sport than short course triathlon period whether it is drafting or not.

Marathon and 100M are both running events just as IM and Olympic triathlon are both triathlon.

IF A RACE HAS SWIMMING, CYCLING AND RUNNING IT IS A TRIATHLON!

One is not better or worse, just different disciplines within the same sport.


1. I never said one was better or worse -- Just different.

2. Define "Sport" -- I think we are using two different definitions. My definition -- yes, Ironman and Short course triathlon are two different sports. You prepare differently, train differently, most use different equipment (I use different bikes and running shoes), tactics are different.

3. My Point was -- Non-drafting Olympic distance vs. Drafting Olympic distance -- training is different (according to my friend who spent hours motor pacing on the bike, getting ready for the drafting format), equipment is different (no aerobars, race wheel selection), and tactics are way different. -- So by my definition -- training, equipment and tactics -- it is a different sport.

4. My second point -- Offer up drafting races to amatuers -- I would like to try my hand at a draft legal race. Just like I play tennis, volleyball and golf by the same rules as the pros. And I bet we would have a greater appreciation of the sport they do if we did the same thing with the same rules and same tactics. Cause I know they do it way better than i ever will. Just like I am amazed at the pro golfers.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Sparticus] [ In reply to ]
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While drafting would benefit me (cycling is by far my weakest event) I would NOT want to race a drafting event with a bunch of triathletes on aerobars. (I like my skin left on my body.)

Allowing drafting in age group would make things much easier for officials however, the dangers of poor bike handling skills in a tight group are too great.

Speaking of golf - are stroke play and match play two different sports - afterall the rules are different ;-)

The better or worse comment wasn't directly to you - just in general to all those who insist on complaining about the Olympic triathlon.

mike
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [dre] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dre

I have actually only done one triathlon that was draft legal and unfortunately I didn't know it before the race started. I was doing a race at the CNE grounds in Toronto a number of years ago and I was in doing a swim warmup when they announced that they would allow drafting since the bike was 10 times a 2.5k loop and they wouldn't be able to enforce a no-drafting rule on this type of course. I missed this announcement and ended up spending the first 7 laps as the one dictating the pace as I tried to shake off and ride away from the 4 or 5 guys sitting on my wheel. I was getting majorly pissed off and near the end of the 7th loop yelled at them to get off my wheel .... the response was something like "You asshole, this race is draft legal" ....... I obviously felt like a big dork since I had been working my ass off and not sitting in at all. I ended up 3rd overall at that one but probably would have had a different result if I had gone into coaster mode like the guys that I was pulling around (my background is running and is by far the best of the 3 components for me).

Unless I turn elite, at 37 years of age, there are not many opportunities for someone like me to try racing a draft legal event. The rarity of opportunity and changes required to my bike setup would probably have me pick another event anyway.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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"there are not many opportunities for someone like me to try racing a draft legal event"

Expect to be humbled, but if you want to try draft legal racing enter a road race. I think there are road race events with classes for newbies in both Kingston and Gananoque. I believe you could either go Cat 5 and go crash bang with the kids or enter the masters and face off against guys in your AG with years of road race experience. There is also an active road race group in Peterborough. At least most of those roadie race guys have some idea what they're doing. The thought of draft legal tri with a group of AG trigeeks is pretty scarey.

Another option is join a good roadie group. Sometimes the group rides simulate road racing quite well. But you should get another bike other than the Wheeler for this!!
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Draft legal should have its own name. ITS NOT TRIATHLON. Drafting is not allowed in triathlon. Duathlon had to change its name because there was already a sport called biathlon.

Lets hear some suggestions for a name for draft legal races.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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"Lets hear some suggestions for a name for draft legal races. "

How about "draft legal triathlon". Self explanatory. Or how about "triathlons for trigeeks who have bike handling skills". Or "swim, draft, run".
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, it is TRIATHLON. I believe they just had the olympic TRIATHLON. not the Olympic 3 different sports athon.

I've had a few ITU triathletes live with me over the past few winters and trained with some others.
ITU racers are as fast as any short course or long course pro. When was the last major non drafting short course race won by someone else than a non ITU racing pro? If you don't think they are capable of riding off the front in a non drafting race, say clocking in the 54's for 40k, then allow me to buy you glasses.

ITU racing has elevated the entire realm of triathlon, from short course to IM. You have to be a faster swimmer than say, 8 years ago. You could have been a world beating pro triathlete swimming 18:30 for 1.5k, now you'd be lucky to see anybody in an ITU race if you swam that slow. In the USTS days you could run a high 35 min 10k and not drop out of the top 3 OV. 35 in a tri now, hahaha get use to looking at lots of arse passing you buy if you a pro, or a top AGer.

It's triathlon just a different format.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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you're right...18.30 is about what I swim and when I swam with the OD guys of Bill Davoren in Oz, I got my butt handed to me big time every single sessions...
35' is what faster women run...

I would just say, that I do not believe many of the guys in ITU racing can ride 54'...the very best riders like Waldo, Lessing, Macca, Marceau etc. sure can, but there are quite a few who I don't think can (not by themselves anyway).
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Cerveloguy ..... the Wheeler would definitely be a no no in a road race since they'd laugh me silly with the bar end shifters and little wheels. I do have a Cannondale R700 with drop bars (but it does have a 75 degree seat tube and grip shifters on the aero bars and little wheels) that I could probably get by with if I swapped out the shifters for some STI...... however, my wife has been patient enough with my 23 hour a week average training the past few months and telling her I was going to enter a new type of race would not be a good idea this year :)

I guess I may be on the lookout for some 8 speed STI shifters on ebay since the idea interests me a little.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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the difference is that now, I don't give a rat's ass what people think.



Francois, one day we are talking rugby, the next day you quote back at me my life philosophy (or one of em).

Respect.


kiwipat

per ardua ad astra
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [kiwipat] [ In reply to ]
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mate, let's meet somewhere, in NZ, in the US or better at a Rugby sanctuary! :-)

how long to recovery?
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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yep, you are on.

Swim next week, bike 2 weeks, run 3 weeks...I am just starting to get a bit pissed off with the whole not training game - patience is not a strong point. But, given what I did to myself, if I hit those targets I will be doing well.

Softly softly, catchy monkey, as they say.

Now, off to watch the Kiwi kayakers.

Honestly, this whole country today has been going ballistic about the tri boys...one of the great things about coming from a small place is that world achievements create a BIG splash. When your country wins 20 gold medals, what is one more? But when you had two and then you get another kind of unexpectedly, it is huge. I am just so stoked for those two, especially Hamish.

Hey, your injury (achilles?) - where dat at?


kiwipat

per ardua ad astra
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I just watched the Olympic men's race and it is the first draft legal I have ever watched. Though I don't like the idea of drafting it does make better TV and in the end that is what the Olympics are all about. I have to say making drafting ok was a brilliant move.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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ended up spending the first 7 laps as the one dictating the pace as I tried to shake off and ride away from the 4 or 5 guys sitting on my wheel. I was getting majorly pissed off and near the end of the 7th loop yelled at them to get off my wheel .... the response was something like "You asshole, this race is draft legal"

HaHa. Reading that funny bit is a good way to start a Friday. Thanks.

-------------------------------

Tibbs, I'm with you. I prefer triathlon (and other "individual" events) to actually be every man for himself ... the whole time. I don't like the "teams" or "alliances" affecting outcomes of an individual event. But, the drafting was cool to watch.

The announcer said that if someone didn't take their turn at the front and just stayed back and saved 20-30% of their energy drafting, that the other riders would "do everything they could to make sure that guy didn't win". My question is "what can they do?" Crash him off the course, tie his shoes together, form a circle around him during the run and refuse to let him escape? The guy would be back there just saving energy and then during the run should be able (in theory) to bury the others in the run.

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: Let's settle this once and for all [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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SWIM, DRAFT, RUN....PERFECT!!
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