I agree. I think all the team cars should be replaced by F-250's. This would give those friggen Frenchies something to think about before they run into the road...

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mobiusnc

"Swaying to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting the bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums" - APC

ummm........

you notice that a good number off them were carrying the US flag????? So might be safe to assume they were actually Americans. They are still morons and are disregarding the efforts of the riders by putting them in potential dangers of crashing due to the negligence of those said fans. ie:a trailing flag from the running fan flag finds itself into a wheel.

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http://www.velokyniska.com

yeah. what is up with the anti-french sentiment here? one of my favorite pictures is of lance being trailed by these two dudes in football jerseys and football helmets on a tdf climb.

and why all this bitching? i mean, do you REALLY want to change the tdf so it's all fenced in and sterilized? have you even BEEN to the TDF??? sure you get a lot of morons but it's overstating it to say that every fan who runs enthusiastically alongside a cyclist is a moron. The excitement of being so close to the riders is infectious.

Even Lance, after his musette-induced crash last year, didn't rant about how the course needs to be railed off.

geez. whiny americans. (just kidding. chill out.)

I bet you really like some of those French people, but you just don't want anyone to know about it. Yes, mobiusnc, I have you figured out.

Doh, busted. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted. Mostly I'm just pissed off because my GF is sitting on the beach in Toulon while I'm stuck here this year.

I asked her to yell "Dope, Dope" at Virenque on the Ventoux TT but papa nixed the idea. Go figure...

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mobiusnc

"Swaying to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting the bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums" - APC

Look if you need a lesson in sarcasm it's going to cost you $250. I don't do this for free you know... :-)

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mobiusnc

"Swaying to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting the bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums" - APC

Uh, you don't get out to many sporting events I take it? Cleveland Browns vs. Pittsburgh Steelers? Dallas vs. Washington? Euro or S.A. soccer? (talking major nuts). USAS swim meets, say J.O. meets? :) Little League World Series? Bwuahahahahahaha!

No, bike racing isn't golf or Wimbledon, THANKFULLY, but I'll take what God has given. Given the sheer number of fans, I'd say they are pretty controlled as a group. The Basquoise and Americans are the real nut cases though. (But, good for them.)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Those were really french people posing to be americans in an attempt to make americans look bad ;-)



NOTE: In case you couldn't tell...I'm joking. We don't need help to look bad :D

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Cousin E, I can always count on you to come up with moderate, compassionate solutions to today's problems. You need to run for office! You'll have my vote.

Machine guns. Sweet - but heavy. What about motorcycles with cattle catchers on them, or snowplows ahead of the leaders? That way you can clear the road without adding unwanted weight to the bikes.

The behavior you are complaining about has been the same in the TdF since before you were born... they shouldn't change it just because an American is winning.

Do you ever get cramped in that little box you call life CE? You sure don't seem to get out much.

if that makes you feel any better, Toulon is not the best place in France for beaches...

;-)

let everybody but postal take epo. then maybe it wont be as predictable. i was hoping for a replay of last year but all the "contenders" turned out to be pretenders. im sure beloki,mayo and tyler will be talking trash for the next 11 months again. voecklers a stud though.

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'STICK EM UP PUNK ITS THE FUN LOVING CRIMINAL'

"Uh, you don't get out to many sporting events I take it?"
- - I get out plenty. As the GM of the company that used to print the tickets for playoffs, World Series, Superbowl, etc., I used to have access to tickets for all major events. The number of events I've been to doesn't change the fact that some people don't realize that the event (TdF) isn't about them, it's about the riders.

"Cleveland Browns vs. Pittsburgh Steelers? Dallas vs. Washington? Euro or S.A. soccer? (talking major nuts). USAS swim meets, say J.O. meets? :) Little League World Series? Bwuahahahahahaha!"
- - You're pretty young, I take it. When I was growing up, my father would have beaten me until I couldn't sit for a week if I displayed the kind of cretinous behavior we see these days. Back then, there was the occasional soccer riot; Americans used to know how to act.

Sure, when the Bulls or the Lakers won their championship, a bunch of shitheads set the town on fire. The police should have shot every damned one of them.

"No, bike racing isn't golf or Wimbledon, THANKFULLY, but I'll take what God has given."
- - Don't blame God, He has nothing to do with it.

"Given the sheer number of fans, I'd say they are pretty controlled as a group. The Basquoise and Americans are the real nut cases though. (But, good for them.)"
- - Number or otherwise, I'd say they're a bunch of jerks with no dicks. The problem is that whatever you are willing to put up with is exactly what you will have. Stop acting like this sort of behavior is in any way acceptable. When the two drunks next to you at the ball game try to pour beer on one of the players, just grab the beer from them and tell them what flaming ass holes they are.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

"Do you ever get cramped in that little box you call life CE? You sure don't seem to get out much."

My life is terriffic, which is why I don't go to sporting events and act like a complete moron. I guess you think that's a good thing to do? You must, otherwise why defend the morons and attack the guy who's suggesting people act like adults?

Nice...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

"The behavior you are complaining about has been the same in the TdF since before you were born... "

That's non sequitor. I'm not saying it's bad because it just started (which it didn't) I'm just saying that the people who endanger the athletes (without whom there would be no event) should be dipped in shit and hung for stinking.

Wrong is wrong.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

"Machine guns. Sweet - but heavy. What about motorcycles with cattle catchers on them, or snowplows ahead of the leaders?"

Now we're getting somewhere. replace the motorbikes with Hummers. That's make a nice hole for the riders to go through! No, the snowplow idea is the best, because that would toss the bodies off to the side where they wouldn't be under the rider's wheels.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

I'd like to see every man for himself. I don't see the point of a whole team protecting one rider from wind, from attacks, wearing the other riders out, etc. If each team is only going to have one guy try and win the race, why not just have one rep from each team race.

I'm naive to cycling, and learned from reading Lance's books that some rider's job is just [1] protect him from wind, [2] chase down attackers, [3] wear out the other top riders, etc. Then the protected rider gets all the glory.

I think it would be more interesting if EVERY rider was trying to win. Isn't that what racing is all about?

I don't dig "team" sports where only one guy gets the glory. Is there any other sport thatdoes that?

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=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

I'm inclined to agree. That's why I do tris, because I don't want to rely on someone else to get the job done, nor have to answer to someone else because I had a crappy day on the course. If I suck, I suck alone - no excuses and no one to whom I have to apologize.

I'd like to see some major cycling events done TT style, where each rider is on his or her own, and if there's another stage tomorrow, you stagger start based on your accumulated time. No drafting.

That way, the best athlete wins, not the best tactition. Meanwhile, the TdF is what it is, and those who choose to participate know the rules. Personally, I'd go postal in the middle of 180 riders flying through the countryside, waiting for some genius to lose it and take out 50 riders. The genius would probably be me...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Answer the question CE. Do you ever get cramped? One man's "moron" is another man's fan. Act like a stuffy, grumpy, boxed up crank living high on a pedestal above the plebian "morons" you so easily dismiss? Not on your life. I spent most of the last 17 years living that way. Trust me, you're missing A LOT. But you keep on trusting your cozy little place in the world to be the RIGHT and ONLY way to live and behave.

"Answer the question CE."
- - Oh my, aren't you the petulant little pissant!!

"Do you ever get cramped?"
- - Not in the least. My world is pretty nice.

"One man's "moron" is another man's fan."
- - Well, if you think those folks are good fans, then you're a moron as well. By the fact that you think I owe you answers, that's a conclusion already made. I have an opinion, it upsets you. Get over yourself.

"Act like a stuffy, grumpy, boxed up crank living high on a pedestal above the plebian "morons" you so easily dismiss?"
- - Nothing stuffy about good manners. You should try them out some time. But you'd rather get your shorts in a knot over the guy who sees what's wrong rather than correct what's wrong. I bet you voted for Clinton!!

"Not on your life. I spent most of the last 17 years living that way. Trust me, you're missing A LOT."
- - I have a great life, a great home and great friends. I can't imagine what I could possibly be missing. Better go back to psychiatrist school, Dr Freud, your presumptions about me are based on reading nine posts? Yeah, you know me like the back of your hand!! ROTFL!!!

"But you keep on trusting your cozy little place in the world to be the RIGHT and ONLY way to live and behave."
- - In polite society, some things are just not acceptable. You probably think morality is personal. You probably think the guy who punched Merckx was just an overzealous fan who needs more love in his life.

So tell me, my little anal-retentive shrink wannabe, what's really bugging you? You can't possibly get this worked up over the comments of a total stranger unless your medication ran out yesterday.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Ahh, I see...now the name calling starts. And THAT is what you call grown-up? Get real. Are you kidding us? All it takes to get under your skin is a little challenge to your self-righteous attitude? You hide behind your stuffy self-important view of the world and denigrate those who disagree with you, yet you accuse ME of being anal-retentive and petulant? Excuse me then... I'll just crawl back in my little pissant-hill now.

NOT.

I don't think you "owe" me answers. I just assumed another ADULT could have a reasonable discussion about something about which they disagree. But you've already determined that I'm a MORON, so how could I possibly converse on your lofty level? (Pause while Tribriguy feigns supplication to the all-superior CE...)

And for the record, EVERY SINGLE presumption you have made about me is DEAD WRONG! Starting with "bet you voted for Clinton." I live in VERY polite society. I live with a strict moral code. And NO, I don't think the guy who punched Merckx was just "overzealous."

Yup, you're right, you really have NO imagination. That much has become readily apparent.

"How to improve the TdF"

I thought you were going to say "Have it in the USA"



;-)

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

All right, enough is enough. I think trashing each other was not the intention of this thread.

I think that the best way to improve the TdF is to move it to NEW JERSEY!!! Whaddaya think about that, huh? Allow CONCEALED WEAPONS!!! The fat assed dude with the viking helmet won't know what hit him. Require riders to stop at predetermined BEER STOPS!!! They must consume 16 oz. (or 500 ml or whatever the hell the equivalent is) of Budweiser in order to continue. (Please do not suggest a better beer, there is none, that is why it is the KING). Then we will see who the real "Giant of the Road" is.

Thank You

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"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM

"Ahh, I see...now the name calling starts."
- - You're quite confused. "Ass hole" would be name calling. Noticing your lack of intelligence (moron) is simply being observant.

"And THAT is what you call grown-up? Get real."
- - No, that is what I call a put down. Nasty business that, but then you're the one who thinks my life is an empty shell!!

"Are you kidding us? All it takes to get under your skin is a little challenge to your self-righteous attitude?"
- - It will take a great deal more than that. But don't stop trying.

"You hide behind your stuffy self-important view of the world and denigrate those who disagree with you"
- - Hide? I think I came right out and said what I think, which is that people should act responsibly. Somehow that's a problem for you... I can guess why! (And, incidentally, the phrase "self important view of the world" makes no sense in any context.)

Denigrate? Nope, you denigrate yourself, I just noticed you doing it.

"yet you accuse ME of being anal-retentive and petulant? Excuse me then... I'll just crawl back in my little pissant-hill now."
- - Hopefully the pharmacy can get your meds tomorrow early.

"I don't think you "owe" me answers. I just assumed another ADULT could have a reasonable discussion about something about which they disagree."
- - Let's roll the tape, shall we:
TriBriGuy: "Do you ever get cramped in that little box you call life CE? You sure don't seem to get out much."
- - Excuse me, but I've got to clean the fruit juice off my keyboard. The juxtaposition of your original post with "another ADULT" just sent a whole mouthful of it up through my sinuses!!!

"But you've already determined that I'm a MORON, so how could I possibly converse on your lofty level? (Pause while Tribriguy feigns supplication to the all-superior CE...)"
- - Yep, more adult behavior. If you want adult conversation, read over your opening volley and make a note to yourself to look up "diplomacy," next time you're near a dictionary...

"And for the record, EVERY SINGLE presumption you have made about me is DEAD WRONG! Starting with 'bet you voted for Clinton.' I live in VERY polite society. I live with a strict moral code. And NO, I don't think the guy who punched Merckx was just 'overzealous.' "
- - Not exactly believable since you got upset about me saying the morons who nearly knock the riders off should be censured (actually I suggested they should be shot, or at least threatened with automatic weapons, but that's called hyperbole. Do they do that where you come from?)

"Yup, you're right, you really have NO imagination. That much has become readily apparent."
- - Seriously, I hope you feel better soon, or at least get even with whoever pissed in your corn flakes this morning.

---

Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

"I think that the best way to improve the TdF is to move it to NEW JERSEY!!!"
- - And use all the toxic waste sites as course hazards. They could do the final stage on the turnpike and see who ends up in the wrong lanes and has to go into NYC...

"Whaddaya think about that, huh? Allow CONCEALED WEAPONS!!! The fat assed dude with the viking helmet won't know what hit him."
- - I'm definitely for that.

"Require riders to stop at predetermined BEER STOPS!!!..."
- - That would require relaxing the rules about where and when the guys can releive themselves. Might also make for a "looser" peloton. Who wants to draft a guy poppin' beer farts first thing in the morning?

"Then we will see who the real 'Giant of the Road' is."
- - But would they televize that part?

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

The Germans would have an unfair advantage.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

"I thought you were going to say 'Have it in the USA' "

Well that's certainly an idea worth discussing. Never mind USA, bring that sucker to NoCal. Hors categorie climbs up E Zayante and Ice Cream Grade? We've definitely got some good roads to use.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Definitely, but imagine the traffic ;-)

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Now that we've decided that the world needs a Giro de Santa Cruz Mountains, all you have to do is organize it.

The SFGP was a bad idea, because you can't tie up a city of that size without creating problems, and the race is a crit. OTOH, a TOUR, with stages up Mt Ham, Tam, Diablo and Shasta could be very cool. Perhaps it could begin in Pacifica, and wend it's way to Death Valley... Hows that for temperature extremes?

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

So then you really don't get out much? Apparently you also have an issue identifying hyperbole and sarcasm. You talk about taking machine guns to fans (hyperbole). I liken your life to a cramped little box (hyperbole) because you apparently you've missed the past 100 years of TdF history that includes such fan interaction as we have seen in the two mountain stages. I challenged you on your knowledge of TdF history and customs and you came at me with personal attacks. Is it that hard for you to even consider that you may be wrong about something? I don't remember any of those fans punching the riders this year. I don't remember any of them seriously impeding the riders either. In fact, I don't remember Lance blaming his wreck last year on the fan with the musette bag and subsequently calling for sterilization of the fans with fences (or your beloved machineguns. BTW, would you even know how to set the head space and timing on a machine gun? I do And I'd be the first in line to make sure its done on the death squad MG we'd use to take out the first asshole that punches Lance.)



You ARE hiding. How does my disagreeing with your call to "censure" these fans equates to me failing to believe people should act responsibly? You are challenged on your knowlege (please note the DISTINCT difference between knowlege and intelligence) and instead of actually answering a question, you resort to personal attacks intended to establish your superiority over others. Frankly, I've seen it time and time again across the many threads you've deigned worthy of your presumptuously superior intellectual discourse. Whenever you are challenged you resort personal attacks on the other forum members. That, my humor challenged forum mate, makes you an incredible bore, not to mention a supreme Jackass.

"So then you really don't get out much? Apparently you also have an issue identifying hyperbole and sarcasm. You talk about taking machine guns to fans (hyperbole). I liken your life to a cramped little box (hyperbole) because you apparently you've missed the past 100 years of TdF history that includes such fan interaction as we have seen in the two mountain stages."
- - Didn't even need to go there. Poor behavior doesn't become good behavior just because it's common behavior. I identified it as "wrong" not unprecedented.

"I challenged you on your knowledge of TdF history and customs and you came at me with personal attacks."
- - No, you did nothing of the sort. Reread your post, genius. Show me where you cited TdF history. What part of "Do you ever get cramped in that little box you call life CE? You sure don't seem to get out much." was the history lesson?


"Is it that hard for you to even consider that you may be wrong about something?"
- - I've been wrong often. For example, when I first encountered you, I thought your were cool...

"I don't remember any of those fans punching the riders this year. I don't remember any of them seriously impeding the riders either."
- - You haven't seen much footage then.

"In fact, I don't remember Lance blaming his wreck last year on the fan with the musette bag"
- - Lance is a class act who doesn't make excuses, and after the race he had the presence of mind to NOT say something that would hurt a young girl. But CLEARLY, his fall was the fault of a fan being too close. If you can argue with that, you're... Oh wait, we've already established that, haven't we!!

"BTW, would you even know how to set the head space and timing on a machine gun?
- - Uh, help me understand how knowing the details of how to implement an illegal solution would be important. You're starting to frighten me...

"I do And I'd be the first in line to make sure its done on the death squad MG we'd use to take out the first asshole that punches Lance.)"
- - So now you agree with me? Is your world becoming small and confining?

"You ARE hiding. How does my disagreeing with your call to "censure" these fans equates to me failing to believe people should act responsibly?"
- - I'll read that over a few times and see how that proves that I'm hiding, or even that it matters if I'm hiding or not.

"You are challenged on your knowlege (please note the DISTINCT difference between knowlege and intelligence) and instead of actually answering a question, you resort to personal attacks intended to establish your superiority over others."
- - Dude, get that prescription filled quickly. You didn't challenge JACK, you asked if I "ever get cramped in that little box you call life CE"

"Frankly, I've seen it time and time again across the many threads you've deigned worthy of your presumptuously superior intellectual discourse."
- - Maybe you should bring one of those threads in to make the point that you're unable to make with this one?

"Whenever you are challenged you resort personal attacks on the other forum members. That, my humor challenged forum mate, makes you an incredible bore, not to mention a supreme Jackass."
- - Now you're just getting pissy. But then what do I know, living in my little box...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Well, genius, lets spell this out in black and white for you. My implication was that you don't truly understand the Tour and its history. You come along and see something that even I will admit can be uncomfortable, and you just assume its wrong. Why? Because CE has decided it is wrong? Who made you arbiter of right and wrong? Are we all supposed to agree with you now or be deemed morons right along with these fans?

Fans getting close to the riders bothers you. So what. It makes many others uncomfortable as well, including me. So now you assume that JML, ASO and UCI, not to mention a continent of cycling fans and riders who've likely forgotten more about the sport than you've ever known, should all think the same as you and "censure" these fans? Such arrogance is unbecoming.

Its a mighty sterile and dull world you would have us live in CE, if your comments are any indication. Bike races would be reduced to time trial format only, because, in your opinion, tactics are not part of the game...only athletic ability. You would have us fence in fans you deem childish and unruly. Seems to me you'd like the entire world to fit into nice neat little boxes, that you, CE can make sense of if not control. You've even moved me from your "cool" box to your "moron" box simply because I show the temerity to question and even attack your opinion on a few hundred thousand sports fans. You're mighty quick to judge people CE. Quick, lets put all the fans in their little boxes because CE doesn't like their behavior.

Why not just note that these fans have made you feel uncomfortable with their antics? I'm fairly certain we all agree with that, CE. We all hope their actions don't interfere and become decisive in the outcome of the race.

Get help!

Reread your first post, then consult a psychiatrist. Quit inventing eloquent arguments that you failed to make and then acting like I didn't answer them.

"My implication was that you don't truly understand the Tour and its history."
- - Where in "Do you ever get cramped in that little box you call life CE? You sure don't seem to get out much." will I find that?

"Its a mighty sterile and dull world you would have us live in CE..."
- - And a full and rich fantasy world that you live in.

"Are we all supposed to agree with you now or be deemed morons right along with these fans?"
- - It's kind of a no-brainer, now that you've admitted that the fans are morons. Support them and be a moron, or agree with my point - which you did - so now you're a whacko AND a moron!!

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...