yeah you should probably check other spoiler threads before making this one.



and how come you're only posting this now? he got off his bike like 4 hours ago.

Well mate, I'm making an observation regarding Tyler. My observation was that I didn't hear Tyler complain a whole lot about his back. The other observation I was making, which has been made before, is that it has been a terrible week for him and his wife. Even worse now, he is done.

It says *Spoiler*Regarding Tyler.

It does not say HEY GUYS, TYLER HAS PULLED OUT. It is a Spoiler, and it regards Tyler. WTF.

I think maybe he meant that there is another thread disussing Tyler's abandon?

You could be right. But being the supreme type A personality tri geek that I am, I will assume that you are wrong and I am right.

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...but it's a dry heat...

I appreciate your information because i am watching the race right now as i wake up on this saturday morning. I saw that tyler had dropped out and wanted to know about that and nothing else. So screw everyone else. By the way, it's not that dry of a heat this week in AZ is it?
i hate it right now, crazy hot and crazy humid! good luck training this weekend and stay safe!

David J

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david
asc-arizona state cycling
tribemultisport.com

He had some pretty nasty bruises on his back, it's such a shame.

You're right, it's not dry, but I have to say it feels so good to go on a long run and return just sopping wet from sweat. For those who don't train in AZ, sometimes it is a bit discuraging when you go for a long run and return completely dry. It feels like you didn't go hard enough.

Now I step outside to get the mail and I'm sweating bullets.

It's a shame what happened to Tyler. He will be a great contender for years to come. I hope he has a new puppy waiting for him once he returns back to the states.

Going to Cactus for a swim.

-Zonie

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...but it's a dry heat...

  Sissy Frass Tyler. It is funny that Tyler Hamilton made the cover of all these magazines with Titles such as "King of Pain" then he drops out. That is what separates the winners, from Tyler and everyone else. Yeah his back may be hurting, but that is racing. Wasn't Lance not in great shape last year with back pain? Tyler's team devoted the season to getting him ready for the Tour and he decides to drop out.
Tyler whines, my dog is dead, my legs are toast, my back hurts. Get over it and race hard! Man these American wimps, at least Mayo got back on his bike. It is always easy to race hard when the light is on and you are doing great. But when he lost a lot of time in Stage 12, he showed his wishy washy heart.

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Jimmy S.

YOu would have a point if he wouldn't have raced all last year with a broken collar bone. Since you are in the know what exactly is wrong with his back?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

You know fireluv, either you're trolling or you're a total dipshit.

Tyler really doesn't have anything to prove to anybody about riding through pain. If the back injury he suffered is bad enough that it's worse than his collarbone, it must be UNBELIEVABLY painful.

You might also note that his team director suggested (yesterday) that he consider abandoning if the pain continued (or, at least this is what Tyler said when interviewed as he abandoned.)

Hey - I've got an idea. Come on over to my place tomorrow. I'll knock you off your bike, then a buddy and I will jump up and down on your back for, say, 30 seconds. Then we can go riding.

When you get dropped, we will be sure to talk shit about you for a while.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

  Who cares what is wrong with his back. If he could race yesterday, he can race today! Racing is hard, it hurts, get over it and race.

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Jimmy S.

  I am glad that you are taking this personal you idiot. You attack me personally because I of my opinion. Hey you can be a Tyler lover all you want. I never said he was not a good athlete. But last year he stayed in the race when he was high in the Overall with a broken collarbone. This year he drops out after getting tremendously dropped. Do not flame me or get personal when the actions speak for themselves.

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Jimmy S.

Thanks for settling things. You're definately a dipshit.

:0)

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

fireluv, I think you are completely missing the point with Tyler. He's finished the tour 7 seven times. He came to win or at least podium. His backs hurts, unlike a collarbone fracture, it prevents him from pushing the pedals going uphill. At that point he has no chance of winning, getting on the podium, getting top 10, or even helping his teammates, so what's the point of continuing? He has nothing to prove by continuing, but backs being what they are he could certainly do some long term damage and end his career while finishing 100th.

Last year he continued because even though it hurt he stayed in the hunt. You know as well as I, that if he had gotten dropped badly last year he would have pulled out. Why suffer (beyond normal Tour suffering) for nothing? Lane had back pain last year, but he stayed in the hunt. He too, if he'd been dropped, would have pulled out. That's what you do when you are there to win and winning is no longer an option.

The man has demonstrated he has a high pain tolerance, so it should be obvious to you, that if the pain is too much to continue than it must be pretty damn bad.

As for Mayo... Two big differences. First his manager told him to keep riding, where as Tyler's told him to stop. 2nd, Mayo still might have a remote chance of winning the uphill TT. Tyler's chances of winning anything this year are zero.

Finally, given his performance so early in the stage, he probably didn't even have a realistic chance of making the elimination time. It was inevitable, he would not continue, he could not continue, but he didn't give up without at least trying.

Give the man some credit. He deserves nothing but admiration in my book.

Now we can all turn our attention to Voeckler as this years man with courage.

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Justin in Austin, get it? :)

Cool races:
- Redman
- Desoto American Triple T

plus his dog died, and that's like losing a kid (considering how close they were, and that Tyler and Haven don't have any kids).

still, it is a bit unlike Tyler. last year, I was hoping he's quit and have a go at the Vuelta. I hope he takes his shot this year.

those who think you're a wimp for being a mess when your dog dies just don't have dogs...can't understand...

fireluv will get jackass of the week instead of larry I guess...

I second that moton! Nothing like kicking someone when their down.

just to clarify, while I do not have a pet now, I once had a cat when I was a kid and we were pretty tight. I full understand that anyone - even Tyler - would be crushed by losing a pet. they are members of the family. Tugboat was, effectively, Tyler's and Haven't only kid.

a very good friend adopted an autistic cat. I'm serious. that cat gets along with no one except perhaps the dog, and my friend loves him anyway (not to mention the dog).

Oh please, loosing a dog is like loosing a kid? Jeez, get over yourself, spoken like someone who does not have kids. Ask someone who looses a kid in 10 years if they are over it. But a dog? Sheesh, its a friggen animal for crissake.

Boy, I tri hard...

>>those who think you're a wimp for being a mess when your dog dies just don't have dogs...can't understand...<<

You are right. I don't get it. It's just a dog. OK, Slowman will probably ban me for that. We had dogs growing up. Horses too. A horse I understand. ;-)

clm, never a Tyler fan in the first place, but especially after he took the $$ and ran from CSC

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

i'm not a tyler fan either but i must point on, at the base level, he's a professional athelete. that's what they do, take the $$$ and run. heras did it too.

just curious, if cervelo was not the bike sponsor of csc would you feel any differently?

when he crashed, his back fell directly onto a pedal.

only he knows how bad it is. it's difficult for anyone on a forum to know exactly how tough he is, or what exactly his motives are... but this guy ground his teeth down to nubs during a race... that is extreme.

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It's not easy to juggle a pregnant wife and a troubled child, but somehow I managed to squeeze in 8 hours of TV a day - Homer Simpson

well, first off, Tyler does not have kids.

second, one might imply that you've never had a dog or a cat as a companion, and not as just a pet. they love us. often, they can love us better than we can love others, because they don't ask questions of worth. often, they love us more than we love them.

>>he's a professional athelete.<<

And therefore, should have finished the stage today. IMO

Money v. a better situation (better team/director) -- he left one of the top 2 DS's and a very good team to go to a no-name team. I think he'd have done a lot better under Riis.

And no, Cevelo has nothing to do with my like of CSC (though it's a plus). Bjarne Riis does though.

clm

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

  You all are a bunch of crying sissies. My dog died, my cat died, my back hurts. Suck it up. He is a professional athlete who got paid good money to ride the Tour. So guess what, ride the Tour until your legs fall off. I do not care if he has done the Tour 75 times in a row. We all want to pat these millionaire popcorn people on the back when they do well, but also want to pat them on the back when they are sucking. I do not care about a professional athletes personal life, his marriage or whatever. It is all about the race. If you let anything else interfere with that, you lose, period. Tyler allowed himself to get distracted and lost.

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Jimmy S.

Dude - what's the deal?

Are you a Klingon or something?

Tylers a good guy, and tough as nails. He for sure kicked my ass everytime I raced against him (OK, at that level, the brief time I was there, I was riding - not racing.)

Lighten up, Francis.

Get a heart.

Definitely the winner for this week.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Anyone that finishes the Tour with a broken collarbone is obviously tough enough. Tyler is a professional athlete. His job is to win races and help his teammates win races. If his back is too messed up to do either, then he needs to get off his bike, get it treated and get back to competition ASAP. Riding for another week on the Tour when he can do none of these things isn't his job. Stopping now also gives him a better chance at an Olympic medal, which is also good for sponsorships for himself and his team. Also, part of his job.

FrancOis :-)

Hi Francois,

I was replying to fireluv - the "lighten up... " line is from the movie Stripes. The drill sergeant responds to the asshole recruit who has threatened to kill anyone who calls him Francis with the line "... lighten up Francis."

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm 100% with you on this thread.

MH

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Tyler does not have kids, as you rightly point out, and until (if) he does, he will not understand the difference between loosing a dog and loosing a child. Love is all well and good (because I give you a bowl of food), but its those questions of worth that you devalue that make our children what they are.

And for the record, I grew up with a dog as my very best friend, and I have young kids. And if I lost one of them, I would still cry 10 years later. But for the dog? In ten years time, are you kidding me?

Boy, I tri hard...

Being a pro also means doing what you have to do despite knowing you will be critisized by dipshits and armchair quarterbacks. He clearly didn't have what it took this year, better to save himself for later. I'm sure it was much tougher for him to drop out of the race than it would have been to ride along with the grupetto. This "must finish at all costs" attitute is pseudo-macho bullshit and way too pervasive in triathlon; people get hurt because of it.

sorry, didn't know the movie :-)

No need to resort to name calling. He's got his opinion, you've got yours. I think he was a little too hard on Tyler, but I can see his point.

I think Justin partially hit in on the head. The bottom line was that he dropped out because he just didn't have it this year. Last year he raced through the pain b/c he had the legs and was still going to be a factor in the race. He saw that wasn't going to be the case this year, so why race through the pain? You can be sure that his director wouldn't have suggested he bail if the pain continued if he actually had good legs this year. Yes, you're going to say if his back didn't hurt he would have been stronger. Maybe, maybe not.

I think the point is that whatever pain he was feeling could have subsided and he might have had a shot at a stage win later in the race or could have supported his teammates who dedicated much of their seasons to his support. I think it all comes back to that same 'Pro's dropping when the going gets bad' argument we've had in the past. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue. I can see both sides. I've twice dropped out of races when I just didn't have it and was forced to a walk. At the time it seemed like the right choice, but afterwards I felt bad about it.

Mayo has been complaining about his knee for a week. If he had dropped, I'm sure he would have said his knee hampered his ability in the mountains. The fact is, he just didn't have it either. He obviously mistimed his peak as did Tyler, Heras and many others. How else can you explain so many great climbers being outclimbed by classics specialists, mediocre climbers and the like? You've got to give it to LA, he is obviously the master of timing his peak perfectly for the Tour.

"And no, Cevelo has nothing to do with my like of CSC (though it's a plus). Bjarne Riis does though. "

yeeahh suurre. suck up

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I was sad to see Tyler go today as well. I still think he's a really tough guy and this is sad 'cause I'm not sure how many good racing years he has left. This is definitely not something that sponsors will look fondly upon.

I don't know for sure if we can downplay his loss this week either. Maybe losing a dog is like losing a kid. I've never had a dog and I've never had a kid. But I did lose a ficus once. I gave that lil guy my heart and soul and it responded like nothing I've ever seen. It's been over four years and not a day goes by that I don't think about the times we shared. It may sound trite, but you just can't understand how deep the pain can run if you've never had a ficus of your own.

You know, at first I thought you were making a sick joke, but I actually know people who've had extreme emotional attachment to their plants. A bonsai tree can live for so long and you put in so much effort caring for it that it's kind of like a companion. This sort of thing is hard for a lot of people to understand, especially those people who can't even understand how the death of a dearly loved companion, any companion, whether human or otherwise, can affect someone so strongly.

Human beings aren't so simple as to have their compassion conveniently boxed and branded to only love other humans ("Human love: for extended human use only!"). It seems shallow to summarily dismiss this kind of thing, but I guess that's the nature of the Internet.

kelvin

"It seems shallow to summarily dismiss this kind of thing, but I guess that's the nature of the Internet"

Ah, no. Lets see here. The height of "dogdom" is their ability to lick there own nuts and not crap where they sleep. The point made was that comparing loosing a dog to loosing a child was inane and pathetic. Not saying you can't love a dog (God knows I loved mine) but it does not compare even slightly to loosing a child. Come back to me when you have had kids. Sheesh.

Whilst I have sympathy for anyone loosing a pet (yes, its a pet - beloved family member maybe, but its still a pet) it is nothing like loosing a child. Its a dog, and even if it could bark its own friggin age and do Lassie impressions, thats it. Dog. Get over it.

Boy, I tri harder...

you're really missing the point here. the point is that regardless of how you create an hierarchy of what or who is more important than what, losing someone or something close, especially a companion, isn't quantifiable to a "your loss was greater than mine" equation. Personal experience is fundamentally subjective and the experience of loss is even more so. You believe that humans are somehow fundamentally "superior" to everything else out there. We may have the technology and brains but that doesn't make us masters of the f'ing universe. When we're long gone this world will still exist.

i think you're a little too gung-ho about (disrespectfully) criticizing people as inane and pathetic. I don't need to have kids to have a depth of understanding greater than yours. sheesh yourself.

And your lame sarcasm doesn't overcome your inability to reason carefully.

maybe you should tri growing up. pooky.

Dude, you wrote "loosing" like 15 times on one thread. Do you really think the verb meaning "to be deprived of something," among other definitions, is spelled that way? I guess so.

As for Tyler's injury, cycling is all about the legs. The upper legs are connected to the back muscles and anything wrong with the legs can pull on the back and cause excruciating pain. The same holds true conversely, when a back injury makes it impossible to apply full force with the powerful gluteus muscles. I have a gluteus medius (hip abductor) strain right now and know from first-hand experience how difficult it makes climbing on a bike.

Tyler didn't come to this year's Tour to "ride" it; he came to win it or at least to make the podium. It's not his fault he got injured, so given his lofty objectives it makes sense to stop at this point.

Pooky, sorry to pick on you about spelling, but I just don't understand how it has become so common to write "loose" instead of the perfectly useful "lose."

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Aeromon (Aerobic Monster) - Pokomon's evil endurance junkie twin

It's quite a simple process of transfer. Feelings that would be transfered towards children are transfered towards pets. Most couples that have this kind of relationship with pets don't have children. And those who have pets before having children, find that after getting children, the role of the pets in their lifes is diminuished. Or in other words, they get things into perspective.

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-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

in reference to cathy - tyler's main reason for going to phonak was not the money. it was the opportunity to be the sole leader, on a team with a clear tdf focus, with a huge say in who was on said team. it was a shot at going at the tdf with a postal style approach. all things he would not have had under riis.

it was brave, and bold, and risky. no doubt the money helped sooth some of the risk, but still. i think he is really to be commended for at least TRYING to take on postal and LA on their own terms, something no euro pro or team is willing to do.

the infatuation for riis i think is surprising. to be sure, he apears to have a keen eye for talent, and good ability as a D.S.. i can never get over the deep and dark cloud of drug use he left his career under, tho. the implications for riis were easily the match of those for pantani, on that score.

Dear t-t-n,



I resent deeply the way you're talking about Mr 60%!!! ;-)

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-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Well, that explains it. I don't like kids either. ;-)

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I was at the Tyler Hamilton Foundation event in Mass. to view stage 13 on the big screen. Tyler Hamilton's father was in attendance. Mr. Hamilton had just finished reading an email from Tyler thanking everyone for attending the event when the daily coverage appeared on the screen. The first image we saw was of Tyler abandoning the race; it was apparent this came as a surprise to his father. Mr. Hamilton left the theatre to find out what happened. He came back in to the theatre and shared the news with everyone. He said that the pedal in the back was causing Tyler a lot of pain and it was affecting his breathing (according to what we were told he was having trouble breathing). It was also said that Tyler was racing this year to win, not to finish and given his condition and breathing difficulties this just wasn't possible.

After the news Mr. Hamilton stayed for the duration of the event and was extremely positive in his continued support for the race and the event. When the event was over he held the door to the theatre open and personally shook everyone's hand and thanked them for attending the event. In my mind this was pure class and I was extremely impressed. I have never met any of members of the Hamilton family but from their actions you can tell they are a class act!

At least he didn't wake up one morning and quit because he just felt tired...

You're saying it's Tyler's profession. That's right. How many people on this board would show up for work with the injuries he has? I guarantee you absolutely nobody would. The problem is, you have no idea how bad his injuries are, and like most professional athletes Tyler shows as little as possible, no point in alerting the competition.

Your argument that his back was good enough one day and not the next doesn't wash. Ever heard of back problems worsening over time? Especially after riding over a bunch of mountains for six hours? I don't know exactly what is wrong with Tyler's back, but I do know what is wrong with Carlos Sastre's since we e-mail almost daily. It's amazing he is still in the race, and his injuries probably aren't even as bad as Tyler's. The point is, a lot of these riders are beaten up beyond belief, and there is not enough time for recovery so they simply deteriorate vay after day. You can survive that if you are healthy, but if you are injured it is very, very difficult. There are riders in the Tour who cannot get out of bed in the morning without assistance, yet they hop on the bike. There is no way you could even imagine how bad it is, and in the absence of knowledge, maybe it doesn't make sense to make simple statements like they should suck it up.

Aside from all these physical issues, you're also ignoring the most powerful muscle to keep these guys going, the brain. you finish the Tour on desire and willpower, and these people are only human. When the body starts to fall apart, even the strongest minds can give in.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

In addition to the class that was obviously apparent at this function, I think Tyler showed a tremendous amount of class by telling the media as flash bulbs are going off in his face, that his team was perfect and he was carrying around the weight on his shoulders. He took any doubt out of anyone's mind how much of a professional/leader/gentleman that he is. You know that if Lance were to go down and get injured that there would be some people bashing the Postal Team for not keeping him out of trouble. Tyler brought the entire focus on himself. No finger pointing. I respect that.

Very good point. Much of Armstrong's success is due to the guys on his team who support him throughout the race. Many people forget that in the TdF one's success is largely determined by the team that supports you. I wonder how good Armstrong would be if he didn't have all the help he receives.