So what is it? Why do we hate the "big box" stores?


I could write a book. Don't tempt me.

Basically, cause they drive the little guys out.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

we're greedy. we want the prices and the service. it's not just big box stores, I could tell you about my business... but we keep going becuase we expect low prices, in stock, and then we get mad when the stock is low, or we can't find it easily, or the minimum wage worker can't answer our question. Lately, I've been frequenting a local Ace Hardware that has good prices and good service. And the parking is better, too.

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Vitus:

That's the standard response I expected. Here's the question, though. Are you satisfied to pay more for the little guy to exist? I mean if the big boys weren't out there being absolutely brutal on their suppliers, do you think you could get the low prices that are available today?

Probably not, is what I think.

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Steve Perkins

Are you satisfied to pay more for the little guy to exist? Absolutely. I pay more to keep little guys in business all the time.

I mean if the big boys weren't out there being absolutely brutal on their suppliers, do you think you could get the low prices that are available today? No, but LOW LOW prices are not my biggest priority.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

If you can buy the exact same thing at a lower price from all of the stores above mentioned versus paying more it's your choice.

Obviously there's a lot of people who want to save money, thus the reason for WMT, HD and LOW.

I don't have a problem with the big guys. I frequent their businesses all the time. However, I will go out of my way to a smaller shop guy for service. That's what the little guys have over the big guys. Rarely will you find a big guy able to provide personalized service that the little guy can offer.

Great. Just asking. You're a better man than most, I think. In this society, everybody seems to be driven by the almighty dollar. They want to buy everything as close to free as possible. I just wonder how many think they could still get the prices offered by these three if they didn't exist.

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Steve Perkins

Rarely will you find a big guy able to provide personalized service that the little guy can offer.

I'll agree with you on that point for sure.

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Steve Perkins

They want to buy everything as close to free as possible. Just so noone gets the wrong idea, I think that we (those in society, generally) share the blame for the rise of the big box stores. Case in point: A little while back, they opened a Super Wal-Mart in my town. Next thing I know, I'm hearing from people how much they really don't like Wal-Mart, but gosh, they don't know how they'd get by without those great prices- why, they just wouldn't be able to afford to live! What the hell? The damn store's only been here for a year. How did they get by before Wal-Mart opened?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

What's so bad about saving money? It's not like it goes under the matress. You'll spend it on some other product or service. Maybe even a little guy's.

apparently, we're addicted to cheap prices. we haven't been through the whole cycle yet for most of us to see what the nasty side effects are. personally, you have to go back to a small store and enjoy the service and nice folks to remember what you've been missing.

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http://www.barefootrunning.org

I'd love to support my little guy hardware store. I do 7 times out of 10. But there are times when I just can't find stuff there that I need.

They don't have the stock that a home depot or lowes does.

It's not that I don't WANT to support them, it's that they don't have the goods.

Craig

I read in a small town newspaper once, that "squeezing" out the smaller business has a bit of a ripple effect in smaller towns. When they come into town they get lots of free press, then the smaller places go out, and that removes advertising dollars from the newspaper, and now that there is virtually no competion Walmart doesn't advertise. Also, things like little league and other youth programs are affected as the pool of business to sponsor them dwindles.

The dilema with the big box stores is that often they "destroy" the downtown area of many towns. I can think of one small city of pop 40,000 where the big box stores on the periphery of town have done just that. Other towns can survive if they are fortunate to be touristy, but it seems to be a trend that the once vibrant downtowns suffer once the big boxes start setting up on the outskirts.

   I am not a HD or Lowes hater but Wal-Mart I do. Biggest reason is workers pay. I also could write a book. Here is just one example and don't forget according to Forbes 4 out of the top 10 richest people in the world are Waltons.

Wal-Mart isn't putting a gun to these peoples head and forcing them to work for low pay. Employment in the U.S is at free will.

Well, how do you think they keep the prices low?

"often they "destroy" the downtown area of many towns"

It's not the big box stores that are destroying downtown, it's all the people who live in and around downtown who CHOOSE to shop at the big box stores that destroy downtown.

big box store = low prices

low prices = pressure on wholesale suppliers for lower prices, "custom" product, exclusive, high volume contracts

lower wholesale prices = off shore manufacture, lower wage structure for domestic employees

"custom" product = genericizing of product lines, de-facto censorship of music/text (IE Walmart is the largest recorded music retailer in the world, and enforces "decency" standards on what it sells,) specialized product that is only suitable for certain big box store/ different from a suppliers "standard" product.

High volume contracts = over-reliance on the box store revenue stream- wholesale suppliers sign large contracts with the box stores, committing gigantic % of production to same. Often "custom" product. Walmart forces suppliers to produce product in different measures, so that it cannot be sold to other stores; if powdered ice tea is normally sold in 32 oz size, Walmart will demand 29 oz, ensuring over-production cannot b sold, and locking down production lines. Box store essentially controls supplier when % reaches a certain point of sales, and can force offshoring or run company out of business by demanding increasingly lower prices

All above = decrease in domestic wholesale production capacity

decrease in blue-collar wage standard

Increased demand for lower price of consumer goods (vicious cycle)

Etc, Etc, Etc...

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

I managed a Walk-Mart photo lab so I know about the company. The low health coverage you are talking about is because a good number of employees are part time and a lot of the employees have spouses and use there spouses coverage. Walmart has a very comperhinsive health plan.

Walmart pays above minuim wage but doesn't pay high salaries because there are no real skilled jobs at Walmart. You have to have unique skills to make the big bucks no matter where you are.

These big box stores are not Satan everyone just breath.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Actually, based on first hand experience, Wal-Mart keeps its prices low through beating the heck out of its suppliers. They promise you one thing. Volume...lots of it. Other than that they will not negotiate any other terms. They dictate payment and delivery terms. You more or less acquiesce to their request. The retailer has a clear policy for suppliers. On basic products that don't change, the price Wal-Mart will pay, and will charge shoppers, must drop year after year. How you reach that target price year after year is up to you. In a way, once you become a supplier to Wal-Mart you start to become a Wal-Mart.

You guys probably know by now that the automobile put the buggy whip manufacturers out of business.

As one of my old business professors used to say, "There's no Santa Claus in the business world."
This is the new marketplace. Small businesses adapt, or get swallowed, nobody is owed a living.
As for the workers, well, like the rest of the country, they get 12 or 16 years of free education, and last I checked, med schools are still taking apps. Nobody told them they had to work at Wal-Mart the rest of their lives. They get to make their own choices.

Lord, I love the free market.
-bobo
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"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

I see a difference between the Wal-marts of the world and Home Despot/Lowes. Wal-mart attemps to be all things -- grocery store, hardware store, garden center, eye care, general dept store, bank, auto care, pets, and probably a dozen other things. They can put the variety store, hardware store, garden center, grocery store, etc, out of business just by erecting one giant box store.

Home Despot/Lowe's, otoh, are doing hardware/building supplies and garden stuff only around here. While I feel somewhat bad for the local Ace hardware, frankly, their prices are so very high I don't go there for much. I'm in Lowe's almost every day (rebuilding a crack house, I spend a lot of money at Lowe's). Lowe's has decent prices and I have actually found their help to be quite good. Home Despot, on the other hand, seems to be constantly under-staffed, and have few people working even during peak times. Menards, which may be a midwest-only chain, has the best prices but smaller selection. The staff are pretty good. Of my crackhouse-rebuilding dollar, I'd say it's something like $.50/$.40/$.10 for Lowe's/Menards/Home Despot. The other advantage Lowe's has around here is that they are actually IN the city, not in the 'burbs. All the Home Despots are in the 'burbs, a good 15 mile drive from the crack house.

Oh you mean their union busting and hiring of illegal mexican immigrants?

I thought they were just being patriotic southern folk.

And the right for workers to organize and negotiate for higher pay is at free will...oops! not at Walmart!

And the right for workers to organize and negotiate for higher pay is at free will --> Is there such a right?

Admittedly, I'm not a labor lawyer, so I don't know. If there is, though, I'd think there'd be an awful lot of companies out there (other than Wal-Mart) that are running afoul of this law.

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Steve Perkins

The National Labor Relations Act of 1935:

Quote:

Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid and protection.

And yes you better believe that Union-busting is going on. I wonder what the Vegas odds of a Mcdonald's or a Walmart Union are?

And even if these fine oustanding corporations do repeatedly violate the law, it's ok because Labor Unions are communists right?

Anyone who dares to challenge Trickle-Down Economics, the Free Market Gospel, or wild unabashed Deficit spending is obviously a communist and should just leave the USA right now.

I'm not saying Unions are the answer to all ills, but nor will I say that the market cures all ills either. I don't think that there are many answers in ideological extremes period. I believe that as humans we need to use our intelligence to learn and adapt perpetually or we may as well begin a jihad.

What rights are Wal-Mart employees losing by not haveing a union?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Well they wouldn't have to deal with some of the recent scandals such as having to work off of the clock under threat of losing their job.

They could negotiate "living" wages with their collective bargaining power.

The management could avoid the embarassment of hiring fresh border jumping immigrants to clean their stores.

I don't think this list is exhaustive but then again I have yet to work at Walmart, but there is still hope!

But really the right they has been lost is the right to a union in the first place.

Sure it's not the second amendment or anything but it is still federal law and the world's largest corporation ought to respect it.

Or hire a lobbyist to subvert/change the law like any respectable corporation would do.

If Wal-Mart is lowering prices every day, how come nothing is free yet?

"What rights are Wal-Mart employees losing by not haveing a union? "

C'mon now. If it wasn't for unions there would still be child labor, 18 hr work days and no worker safety protection. Do you think it was the robber barons who brought these changes in?

At one time in history labor unions had their place in the workplace but in this day and time I don't believe they are needed. Wal Mart wouldn't be able to provide the prices and services they offer if they unionized.

The low health coverage you are talking about is because a good number of employees are part time

How many are really part time, and how many are part time because they're only allowed to work 39.5 hours per week?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

As one of my old business professors used to say, "There's no Santa Claus in the business world."
This is the new marketplace. Small businesses adapt, or get swallowed, nobody is owed a living. Newsflash: There's nothing new about this marketplace. Wal-mart is just the current example of the end results of capitalism. The phenomenon is predictable- if unrestrained in the pursuit of profit, stores like Wal-mart will simply crush their smaller competitors. It represents nothing more than economic anarchy, and it's nothing to cheer.

Lord, I love the free market. I suspect the hundreds of small business owners who lost their livelihoods are less sanguine about it.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"Anyone who dares to challenge Trickle-Down Economics, the Free Market Gospel, or wild unabashed Deficit spending is obviously a communist and should just leave the USA right now."

No, hang out and liven up the party.
The Free Market, comrade, actually dislikes wild unabashed spending.

And as I alluded to earlier, this is America, where a person has the choice to work at Wal-Mart or be a doctor, lawyer or indian chief.
I feel sorry for people who, because of the choices they've made in life, end up digging ditches, cleaning port-a-potties, mopping hot tar, or stocking Wal-Mart shelves for minimum wage. I give them the human dignity of having made those choices, and the dignity of living with the consequences.
However, I'm not willing to pay more for bananas so they can unionize and get paid more than the market says they're worth.
I'm against all subsidies, large or small, overt or covert, government or private, that end up coming from my pocket.
Workers of the world, untie.
-bobo
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"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

Ever here of times changing? A company can't pull 19th century labor practices because it's illegal and the public wouldn't put up with it.

Unions had there place but now they are dinosaurs.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"How many are really part time, and how many are part time because they're only allowed to work 39.5 hours per week?"

Full time at Walmart is 35 hours. Part time on average is 15 hours a week. Full time gets thier hours, part time fills in the gaps. I managed for them I know I made the schedules.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

. If it wasn't for unions there would still be child labor, 18 hr work days and no worker safety protection.

Listen, CG, I don't know what you crazy Canucks got going on up there, but this here is America. Noone held a gun to those urchins' heads and made them work in sweat shops way back when. If they hadn't been so stupid, they would've worked harder and become robber barons themselves.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

How much is a living wage? The jobs at Wal-Mart are low skill. I can train anyone to stock shelves, do inventory or run a register. Human dignity and everyone is the same is nice in your dorm room deep thinking but it means nothing in the real world. An average hourly associate makes 7.50 to 9.00 dollars an hour at Wal-Mart. It makes no sense to pay them more because what they do is not hard to learn and requires no real skills.

Wal-Mart promotes from the inside. Work hard and knock on doors you will get promoted or you could go to school and raise you worth threw business classes or go to a tech school and get a job that pays more. If a person retires as a cashier it is his or her own fault.

You have to take care of yourself not let a company take care of you.



"But really the right they has been lost is the right to a union in the first place."

A union can be voted in no problem. It happens. Problem is you bring in the union all you salary and benefits are on the bargaining table. When a store goes union they get that extra .75 cents an hour but the benefits, which are pretty great for retail, go out the window.

My mom and dad both lost their business at the age of forty-started working at Wal-Mart and now management and started part time in a photo lab and unloading trucks. Do your research before you attack.

If you need to check to see if I did manage for Wal-Mart and am not talking out of my ass call

Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market

Murphy, TX

972 633 0257

Ask for Tom Tucker as him if Jonathan Beckham managed the photo lab from 2001-2002.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Just out of curiosity, why did you leave Wal-mart?

My problem with any of the big-box stores, is that they are so large and the associated parking needs are so great, that they have to locate on the outer fringes of large cities/towns which are very often poorly accessed by public transit. So even if you live just a few miles from one of these giant stores, you need to get in your car to drive to it. No one thinks about this, but it's all these little trips, that in the car that make a significant contribution to air pollution.

These stores are rarely situated so that you can walk to them or take public transit. Cycling is an option sometimes( depending on how far and what you are buying, obviously), but I have often cycled to local Home Depots or Zellers( in Canada) only to find NO bike racks!! I have spoken to the Store Managers about this and the reponse is, " Gee, we didn't even think about that!" Strange.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

When you go to a hardware store, you usually get things that require the use of a car to carry it off. Maybe that's why they hadn't thought of it.

Fleck, this is a big problem. I live in the middle of the city, and when I bought my house, I was glad to see that there was a small Target about 2 blocks away...easy walking distance. The strip mall around it included a radio shack, various small stores, a grocery, goodwill, a few others. Two years ago, Target closed that store...not because it was losing money, but because it wasn't make enough money. They knew most of their customers would drive to the stores in the 'burbs, because that's where the next closest Target is. For the folks who worked there or shopped there who rode the bus, they are out of luck. There are no bus routes to the 'burbs here. So they lost their jobs and people lost a place to shop. Now, the effects on the strip mall have been catastrophic as well. Without Target pulling in the traffic, the goodwill is gone, the radio shack is gone, the grocery is teetering on the edge, and half the small storefronts are empty. So now we have a decaying Target, half-empty strip mall, and a lot less choices for urban residents.

Great point and I qualified that in my post - please re-read. Obviously you are not going to buy a lawnmower when you are on your bike! However, when standing in the check-out line at the Home Depot, at Wal Mart and at the gocery store, I see all kinds of people making purchases that would easily fit into a back-pack for transport on a bike.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I agree with your point and support it...it wasn't a diss at all. I have a home depot 2 miles away. I can honestly say I've made 5 trips to the store in a day to pick up odd things that I forgot the first time I went. A pvc 90, pipe dope, a 1/2" copper union, thread tape, and Dap. All of that cost about $5 but I probably spent more in gas going back and forth in my car. I couldn't gotten a 20 mile ride in by going back and forth.

What you are talking about is the total lack of any urban planning what-so-ever all across North America. It is assumed that EVERYONE will drive everywhere. Yet at the same time people are also outraged by grid-lock traffic and air pollution.

There was all this talk a few years ago about Smart Growth. Well I still see a lot of Dumb Growth going on around where I live!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Brian - thank you for your honesty. Multiply your situation by a couple 100,000 and you see what the problem is. I have heard that to cut back on emmissons and make the Kyoto Accord limits all most people would need to have to do if, with respect, I use you as an example:

- Make a list

- walk or take your bike for these short trips, when you can

I have read that this would reduce emmissons by 10% - which would be huge.

However, you will likley show up at Home Depot and find no place to park your bike!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I wonder how many of those people buying things that would fit in a backpack are actually interested in riding a bicycle to Target/Wal-Mart/Home Depot?

Also, I wonder if the stores' need for large parking areas (which you claim moves them to the 'burbs) is a cause or a result of peoples' "need" to drive a car? In Dallas, everything is so spread out (and the "bike routes" are so poor) that you just can't ride a bike to get where you need to go. I'd be willing to bet that Wal-Mart would LOVE to have a store in Manhattan... but as I understand it, they haven't been able to get approval.

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Steve Perkins

One of my associates was sexually harassing another. I suspended the accused and opened an investigation. The accused's wife worked in the same store and started spreading rumors about the lady who was harassed. 4 associates approached me about the rumors. I said the rumors where a lie and not to spread rumors and the situation was none of their business.

By saying what they heard was a lie (I was a witness to situations) I broke the privacy of the accused so I was terminated. I was leaving anyway because there is too much rah rah team in Wal-Mart, kinda cult like in a family way. Wal-Mart people get every excited about Wal-Mart and I am into showing up and getting work. I don't cheer very well.

There are a lot of problems with Wal-Mart but making it out o be a sweatshop is a load of shit.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Agreed that there IS a cause and effect relationship at work here - 90% of people will drive a car, need to drive a car. Whatever. My issue is that there is absolutly no thought put to the possibility that some people can/would come by some alternate means of transit.

Agreed that many of these stores are so far out in the middle of no where that a car IS the only option However,there is a large shopping plaza( with a Home Depot, a Zellers and a large Grocery store) in my home town, that has several thousand homes all within a couple of kilometeres, and none of the stores has bike racks. I have sat in the Cafe in the plaza and watched people get in their car at their house drive across the road and across the parking lot to buy a bottle of pop and then drive home!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

"I still see a lot of Dumb Growth going on around where I live! "

You're in Toronto Fleck? I was thinking about the dumb growth since I have to go there today to pick my 15 yr old son up at the airport since he's flying in from BC to spend the summer with me. I hate that drive across the top of Toronto, althought the Hwy 407 sure helps.

That is a sad, but all too true commentary on the American lifestyle. Perhaps if enough people emphasized that they would LOVE to see, and would USE, bike racks, the stores would put them in. When you have one person mentioning it once a year, what's the incentive? I'm not saying that's right, only that it's the way these businesses probably look at it.

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Steve Perkins

Tibbsy my man, take a deep breath. I wasn't attacking, you or Walmart. I won't call up your old boss to see if you are telling the truth. I will however call and see what interesting stories he has to tell about you!

But seriously I must reiterate that I am not necessarily a gung ho union man. The jist of my point was not that Walmart is bad and unions are good. What I'm trying to convey is that Walmart and other major corporations have actively subverted union organization.

In the much hallowed domain of the free market, corporations do everything in there power to maximize profit and the workers have the right to collectively maximize their compensation. That is the free market, it is the law. Would you expect corporations to not use everything in there power to maximize profit? Why do you expect less of workers?

I like Walmart's low, low everday prices, I love it when they rollback the prices, I love the convenience of having so many goods consolidated in one location.

But with that being said I do not consider them beyond reproach. Their labor practices violate the principles of the free market that they so heartily endorse. And as so often is the case, businesses are quick to preach the free market until the free market opposes their interests then they become interventionists.

Walmart shouldn't decide if their employees organize, the employees should. And if you say that they do have that choice tell me where I can find a Walmart union representative? Or a Mcdonald's Union rep?

They don't exist, is that coincidence?

And to illustrate my point look at the airlines. United Airlines is looking for another billion dollar bailout.

And in my opinion it is due to very poor management and labor relations. Frankly, the Union leadership at UA had a huge role in running UA into the ground.

They are applying for yet another bailout and were denied, and I think the industry would be better off with United out of business.

But then you look at Southwest Airlines, they are doing great business when the others are struggling and guess what? They don't have a union!

And it isn't because Southwest is a bunch of hard assed union busters it's because of their excellent labor relations and stellar management. The workers voted down their union! That my friend is the free market, or something close to it anyway.

<<And if you say that they do have that choice tell me where I can find a Walmart union representative? Or a Mcdonald's Union rep?

They don't exist, is that coincidence? >>

Every local has an office. Wal-Mart/McDonald's would most likely be UFCW (United Food & Commercial Workers). I was a member of Local 367 back in the 80's. Their office is in Tacoma, Washington. If you want contact info, let me know.

Though I'm no longer a union member, I still carry a hickory axe handle in my truck. I miss the days sometimes...

Brett

I agree with most of what you say, with the exception of the blanket assumption that Wal-Mart (or whomever) are doing what you say. It has been alleged that they do, but I don't remember seeing a jury verdict or a court ruling saying that they did do it (I may be wrong, maybe there is one out there, but I haven't seen it).

Same thing with the illegal immigration "scandal." I've heard the allegations, but seen no proof, and I'm pretty sure that one hasn't gone to a jury yet.

Point is. Many people seem quick to assume that allegations = truth. In my experience, allegations (and many times, even verdicts) have absolutely nothing to do with the truth.

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Steve Perkins

Well you are right about one thing, it WOULD be the UFCW, if there were a union at Walmart.

FYI, it was a rhetorical question, there isn't a Walmart or McDonald's workers union.

I don't believe it's coincidence.

Take a look:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/...owdown_in_vegas.html

Well here is a court ruling for you.

http://www.ufcw135.org/...urtoverturns_703.htm

And there is more if you really want to find out.

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with "resisting unionization" as long as no laws are broken? Surely, Wal-Mart has the right to encourage (legally) workers not to unionize.

I also note that the article asserts in a conclusory fashion that Wal-Mart fired union sympathizers (clearly an illegal practice under the NLRA), but I didn't see any proof. Are we to always believe it if it's in print or on the local (or national) news?

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Steve Perkins

"Walmart shouldn't decide if their employees organize, the employees should."

Your operating under the idea that Walmart employees want a union. It only takes two employees and the backing of a union for an election to be held. At that point the employees vote to see if they want to unionize. Once at my store, twice at my dad's they voted and lost big.

Walmart as a whole has great benefits for the level of work. Once again Walmart has no skills jobs. There is no befit a union can bring. There are problems but they are store issues of managers braking policy.

Union does not mean good work place. When your company relies on it's employees stock options I can be pretty sure they aren't operating a 19th cenutry slaughter house.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I worked side by side with union workers as an engineer for years in a high tech manufacturing environment. I've been given grievences by the union for moving my computer from one side of my desk to the other, trying to put together my own circuit board for a customer who needed it, and pushing a cart down the aisle on the manufacturing floor. As I said before, unions had their place in earlier times but are a relic in today's fast paced business environment. In my personal experience, they stifled productivity and creativity and single handedly negotiated their way out of their own jobs. The company closed the plant down and moved the plant. 3500 people..both union and non-union, were laid off...directly due to the high labor costs that they were demanding.

I worked side by side with union workers and became good friends with many of them. I would say 50% of them did not support the union they belonged and wondered why they even had to be a member and pay dues. They resented the union and its practices.

wal-mart in particular has a long history of bad corporate behaviour.

An anecdote:
http://respectfulofotters.blogspot.com/2004_04_01_respectfulofotters_archive.html#108250015244260329
More on Walmart and health care:
http://www.goiam.org/territories.asp?c=5236

5 of the 10 richest people in the world are Waltons , so it's not as if they couldn't afford to behave a bit better..
More reading on walmart:
http://pf.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

And before any of the radical right start preaching the moral duty of a corporation to maximise shareholder benefit, consider for a moment that the corporation might also have a moral duty to its employees and the society that gives it sustenance..

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

http://respectfulofotters.blogspot.com/2004_04_01_respectfulofotters_archive.html#108250015244260329

First, this is a blog. Not a news story. Heavy on emotion and opinion, but light on facts. Second, why single out Wal-Mart here? My health insurance plan doesn't cover HIV treatments. I don't work for Wal-Mart. How many small businesses do you think have health plans that cover HIV? Probably not many.

I'm not saying they're perfect, I'm just wondering where the animosity comes from? And I'm wondering if it's legitimate. So far, I haven't seen an argument I consider to be legit.

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Steve Perkins