Why are we such pussyfoots here?

Jun 28, 04 8:23

Post #1 of 26 Views: 4967

(With apologies to Puss'N Boots) Why does it seem that, when putting one's virtual neck on the line, we are we such pussyfoots here? Why is that some ST posters seem to have split personalities? For example, many feel free enough to post a statement like "Tri-Shop 'XYZ' Rocks!!", or "Felt/Cervelo/QR/Trek/Guru makes fantastic bikes!", but rarely will anyone even MENTION the NAME of a shop, company, manufacturer (except perhaps Campy and Shimano in that select war) that seemed to make problematic product(s) or gave poor customer service or, even more important, acted in an underhanded way??

If a ST poster, whether they be a lurker, newbie, veteran, mechanic, shop employee, or industry insider, posts a positive OR negative statement about another entity, then aren't they just posting their OPINION or OBSERVATION? (especially if they state it as such?). And is not that opinion worth about as much (or as little) as the opinion or observation of any other guy (depending on the background of the poster)?

So why are we so free with stating our positive adoration of various bike entities, but are such pussyfoots about talking (and airing) our negative experiences with these same (or other) bike entities? This is not about freely tossing about unfounded insults, but more about just stating our simple personal experiences (both good AND bad) as objectively as we can.

Any thoughts?

Where would you want to swim ?

Last edited by: Greg/ORD: Jun 28, 04 8:41

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 8:49

Post #2 of 26 Views: 4903

Cervelo will help you win your age group and Richardson Bikemart is the greatest shop on the planet. I want to have sex with Bunnyman. I stole some clothing from ironclms home and wear them around at night. I have photographic evidence of Dan taking payments of from FSA. Tom is gay and his "girlfriend" is a man.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 8:53

Post #3 of 26 Views: 4884

and he said all this with his head stuck up Gerard's ass!

:)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [frogonawire] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 8:58

Post #4 of 26 Views: 4866

With much pride.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I refuse to believe this heresy... [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 9:04

Post #5 of 26 Views: 4833

"Cervelo will help you win your age group and Richardson Bikemart is the greatest shop on the planet. I want to have sex with Bunnyman. I stole some clothing from ironclms home and wear them around at night. I have photographic evidence of Dan taking payments of from FSA. Tom is gay and his "girlfriend" is a man."

I can't believe Dan takes payola.

The rest I can see. You're in trouble now, btw, Cathy's gonna want that lace nighty back...

Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 9:49

Post #6 of 26 Views: 4745

Well, that just about sums it up. Nice synthesis Tibbsy.

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 12:05

Post #7 of 26 Views: 4552

I guess you never read any of my posts!!

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 12:07

Post #8 of 26 Views: 4536

Tibbsy, have you been swallowing your topical meds again?

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 12:07

Post #9 of 26 Views: 4536

Paging RipVanWinkle... :)

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 04 12:39

Post #10 of 26 Views: 4497

If the Original bicycle crank/chain systems operated like the Rotorcranks do, why would anyone consider going to a plain jane circular crank? The plain jane circular crank leaves out that extra time in the downstroke phase (the most powerful phase of the entire pedal stroke), of which Rotorcranks enable the rider to take advantage.

If an athlete were to want to purposefully train the hip flexors so that they could at least unweight the rising pedal, and to run faster due to better functioning hip flexors, why would anyone NOT want to train on PowerCranks?

I don't like some of the Profile Design carbon bars, because they flex too much...I don't need comfort as much as I need a strong handlebar system.

Accellerade gives me awful stomach cramps (but, I think it tastes good!)

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Post deleted by SuperDave [ In reply to ]

Jun 29, 04 9:56

Post #11 of 26 Views: 4405

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]

Jun 29, 04 10:13

Post #12 of 26 Views: 4376

> I'll keep my mouth (and wallet) shut

Given your relationship with a certain producer of bicycles we'll call F, that makes some sense, no? ;)

-Zo

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]

Jun 29, 04 13:06

Post #13 of 26 Views: 4308

So, Dave, you go out to dinner to a new restaurant have the crappiest meal you've had in years, with bad service, bad food, unreal prices, etc. Later, a few friends see the new restaurant as they drive by, think of going there for a meal, but before they do, they ask you for your take on their service and product. You will tell them nothing?!! Wow.

I agree that when corporations go after corporations, things can get nasty fast. But can we not have the guts to state our own PERSONAL unembellished experiences (again, both the good and the bad)? A perfect example is the story you just posted: much of that has been out in the public domain already for a while, so why not just call 'em Guru and Cervelo? Why do we pussyfoot around like old ladies, being ever so discrete? And yet we don't hesitate to make a sweeping generalization like "Mission Bay (bike shop) Rocks!" (an earlier thread). Call me clueless, but that is what I don't get.

Where would you want to swim ?

Post deleted by SuperDave [ In reply to ]

Jun 29, 04 20:07

Post #14 of 26 Views: 4226

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 29, 04 20:38

Post #15 of 26 Views: 4212

Hmmm. Interesting.

A couple thoughts on this:

1. If you don't something good to say about something, don't say anything about it.
2. That said, I've done my share of ranting about everything from bikes to USAT to customers and vendors to ex-girlfriends. I do when I first, feel justified (which takes a lot with me) and second, pretty darn pissed.
3. One thing I can't recall every being accused of is choking up on an opinion. As Superdave put is so succintly, I am an "extreme kind of personality". The opions born from that mirror it.

There are a few bike companies I do not like at all. I think their products are poor quality and I don't like the way they do business. Chances are, they feel the same way about me.

Neither one of us discuss our negative opinions of each other in public since we both get up in the morning to do the same thing: Sell bicycles.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 7:42

Post #16 of 26 Views: 4138

Wow. Interesting reply. No need for you to waste any of your future time guiding one as terribly ignorant as me. Hopefully I will be able to learn and perhaps someday attain your high level of wisdom. Thanks anyway.

Where would you want to swim ?

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 7:47

Post #17 of 26 Views: 4127

Yeah, I can see how if you are actually inside the biz, airing stuff (even accurate stuff) in public can get complicated quick.

I guess I should be asking this general question more for end-users, athletes, etc. Its funny, you go to MTBreview and road bike review and there people seem to be pretty free with both their postive raves and negative rants.

Where would you want to swim ?

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 7:48

Post #18 of 26 Views: 4126

I'm a pussyfoot because you can't handle it when I don't sugar coat my responses.

Do you see how my negative comment toward you bred disdain and confrontation?

Do you think we'd have this exchange if I would have said how insightful and informative your comments were?

I'm teeming with ignorance, I know very little about many many things, but I do know that arguements and disagreements that escalate to libel and slander suits don't stem from gushing compliments.

-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 7:58

Post #19 of 26 Views: 4112

Are we talking about sugar coating? Is there not a difference between saying (all in the theoretical just in case any hungry lawyers are reading this):

"I weigh 155 lbs., ride moderately, and have owned 15 different Trek bikes. 13 of those bikes frames cracked within 2 years of my purchase."

and...

"I weigh 155 lbs., ride moderately, and know that every single product that Trek Bicycle Corporation produces or distributes is worthless junk and that all their employees and sales folks are flaming idiots."

?

Where would you want to swim ?

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 7:59

Post #20 of 26 Views: 4106

Another thing is that the Internet is frequently used irresponsibly by people on Internet forums.

I'm not sure about the ethical validity of making a negative comment about a product based on a single, isolated and possibliy uninformed (mis)use. It is sometimes neither fair nor accurate.

The Internet is the media of our generation. Just as anything shown on TV is absolute truth to my 80 year old mother, because that is the unimpeachable media of her generation, anything written on the Internet is "The insider's truth, the real deal, the down low". The Internet is our generation's media of choice. It grows more powerful an influencial by the day. The double edge nature of its light speed, borad accesibility is that we are all authorities on the Internet, and all of our comments are beyond accountability.

As a result, every opinion expressed should be tempered with the knowledge that the only requirement for "expert" status on the information highway is a modem and a computer.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 8:06

Post #21 of 26 Views: 4086

I am prepared to call a spade a spade. If a product or service is not up to standards or is outstanding I am prepared to give comments or kudos.

The problem is so much of what we see here is anectdotal eg. "These XXXX tires Suck" Perhaps they were installed wrong, or they were abused some how or there was a manufacturers defect( it does happen) When in fact tire XXXX has a reputation, over all and over time of being the best there is!

Also, there are fantatics a freaks out there who do the strangest things. When I was working at Sugoi we had a pair of cycling shorts returned that the customer said melted when he stood too close to a fire trying to warm-up after a ride. He wanted us to replace them!

Also, pretty much everyone makes great products - the top line stuff, whether we are talking bike hardware, apparel, running shoes wetsuits or whatever, all works extremely well. The quality of stuff that most of us use today, is of similar or the same as the quality of the gear that World Champions use!

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 8:09

Post #22 of 26 Views: 4084

"I weigh 155 lbs., ride moderately, and have owned 15 different Trek bikes. 13 of those bikes frames cracked within 2 years of my purchase."

Isn't the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results? The above wouldn't/shouldn't happen.

The unsolicited, "I just got bike X and shop Y and both the bike and the shop sucked. I was treated poorly, and gouged on price. The bike was heavy, slow, didn't work well, and the paint sucked!" Is a sample of one, and may not be indicitive of the shop or bike. There could be facts not presented that affected this single transaction.

Now, if someone asks, "I was thinking about buying a Cervelo from Bikesport in Dearborn, MI. What are people's experiences?" Many people can chime in with their particular experiences with Tom and his staff and the bikes they got from Bikesport. I am sure there would be some negative as well as positive comments. The original poster could then look at all the comments and make a decision. I don't think people have a problem relaying specifics if asked specific questions, but are wary of posting negative comments based on limited experience.

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [efernand] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 8:16

Post #23 of 26 Views: 4075

"Isn't the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results? The above wouldn't/shouldn't happen."

This was a theoretical exaggerated example, as I have never even owned a Trek. But I have known folks who got a bike (not a Trek), and had the frame crack, and then had the warranty replacement frame crack, and then had that 2nd warranty replacement frame crack!

Where would you want to swim ?

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 8:21

Post #24 of 26 Views: 4069

"When I was working at Sugoi we had a pair of cycling shorts returned that the customer said melted when he stood too close to a fire trying to warm-up after a ride. He wanted us to replace them!"

That is a really funny story!!!--my first good laugh of the day!

Good points. But I would add that sometimes there are a few companies that have consistent (or inconsistent) management, planning, cash flow, bankruptcy, quality control, etc. problems that cause major issues and headaches for end users. Not often, but occasionally.

Where would you want to swim ?

Last edited by: Greg/ORD: Jun 30, 04 8:22

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 8:30

Post #25 of 26 Views: 4056

"Good points. But I would add that sometimes there are a few companies that have consistent (or inconsistent) management, planning, cash flow, bankruptcy, quality control, etc. problems that cause major issues and headaches for end users. Not often, but occasionally."

Agreed - and that's the really hard thing to know as many suppliers in the sport of triathlon are small privatly run businesses and we have no idea of what is going on behind the scenes. They could be one step from bankruptcy, but the sales reps are all out booking orders and the marketing guys/gals are still hyping the product big time, the store shelves are stocked with the gear and consumers are still buying it.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Why are we such pussyfoots here? [Greg/ORD] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 04 8:40

Post #26 of 26 Views: 688

yeah. here's one: m2racer

go search the slowtwitch archives...the recent stuff is just the recent stuff. these guys are developing a (bad) track record with one of their target demographics. after the first 4-5 anecdotes it starts to become something other than anecdotal, yes? their pedal system may be "all that", but the sheer # of things they overlooked on the PM has gotta make you wonder.

irks me to no end that Slowman's first (and only) treatise on the Power Module is linked from the m2racer site as a testimonial. put any real miles on that puppy, Dan?

Carl - no pussyfoot'n on this one: beware the Power Module, and think long and hard about m2racer

Carl Matson

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