Sorry but I have to chime in here. New mobile apps, new beta web app that is constantly getting updates as they build it out, WKO+4 in development for PC and MAC. That is a metric crap ton of development work that is going on.

Do I wish WKO+4 was out and loaded on my MAC, yes. But understanding the development process and trying to incorporate the feedback has delayed things until a future date. Would you rather have a lousy app released on time or one that works released when it works?

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

No, PC and MAC only.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

No I would rather that TrainingPeaks explain what is delayed, why it is delayed, and why its customers should be thrilled to wait because new changes X, Y, and Z are in the near future.

For example..."WKO+ 4.0 is delayed but never fear, the world's most amazing analytical software is on the way because we have just begun developing......."

Some of the new changes are detailed below...

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...-1-a-primer-on-model

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...t-2-limitations-of-c


http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...ko-4-0-parts-3-and-4

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I have seen all of those. They explain the modeling but barely touch on anything else. What about the user interface? The user experience? What can you do with the modeling? What is taking so long if the modeling has all been established etc?

Like anything it can be done fast, cheap or well. Pick two :)

They are working hard on things but it takes time.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I've gotta jump in here. I'm with the xine2kgts.

TP said they would release this in December. Its April, and they have made very little comments about their progress. Software development and release timelines are what I do every day. To blow a release date by over 3 months? That is off the charts terrible. This isn't understocked bike frames being shipped from Taiwan for Trek. This is a software release. The company I work for does entire releases more quickly than this lag time.

To be clear, delays happen, I understand that. But if you blow it by this much, you've got give regular updates to your users/potential users (if you want to them to love your brand).


Anyway, I'm really bummed about the delay, and since the season has started I've had to go with something else. Oh well.

As do I and sometimes you have to pull back to make sure it's right. The official update is there is nothing to update right now. I wish I knew more.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

It has been nearly 5 years since the release of WKO+ 3.0. It takes time but not that much time.

Lets not pretend that TrainingPeaks didn't neglect (?abandon?) WKO+ in favor of their web based coaching platform. I also speculate that the reason they have returned to WKO+ development is because of the increased of power meter options.

And it still works just fine. My guess is that WKO+ 4.0 integrates a lot of new features TP wants in their website, so the WKO guys are on hold until TP can get these features integrated into the site. That, or they are gunning for a full online version of it, and the work going from an installable app to a web app is tremendous. I agree with the sentiment here that they should keep users in the loop, and be forthright about the nature of the delay. "It's done when it's done" while true, is a poor excuse for keeping users in the dark.

I don't think TP has all the functionality of WKO 3 does it?

But it does make sense to integrate all of WKO 4 into TP and roll out the whole ball of wax at once.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't gone that route already.

Then they could basically say WKO 4.1 or 5.0 is web based on TP only and we'll no longer support both platforms. You'd drive some people away but ultimately you'd offset that with cost savings & increased revenues from coaches that use WKO but not TP.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Exactly. TP is lacking A LOT of things that WKO has, and ultimately the market is moving to web-only subscriptions. Way more $$$ for TP that way, and way less support hassle. And it'll shut up the mac people. Figuring out a way to turn WKO+ into a subscription model is probably high on their agenda. So I think the next version of TP will be WKO+. Or maybe the next version of WKO+ will be labeled Training Peaks Advanced.

I'm still on version 2.2 and it works fine

jaretj

Especially in a world that is headed more and more towards an agile methodology to keep up with the consumer expectations for getting new stuff. Not to mention the fact that consumers today have an attention span that is shorter than....


Wait, what was I saying again?

I agree that transparency is the key here. I'd rather have them keep us updated, even if the projection is rough (ie not set for release until 2015), than hear nothing and have it released in 4 months.

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/...an-played-his-hand-a

I'd read it but Google Translate doesn't have an option for gibberish.

Well after a lot of googling I found it quite interesting :-)

Anybody know if a WKO4 is actually going to be released. I even bought a new MAC in anticipation - how silly am I !!!!!!

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

I will jump to Golden Cheetah if WKO+ goes to a subscription model. The longer WKO+ takes, the more comfortable I get using GC.

I'm wholeheartedly against software models which are subscription based that don't need to be, WKO+ isn't NetFlix.

I just finished the trial version of 3.0 and it seemed to be just fine, more robust than GC or Poweragent and still more info than just using training peaks premium. If 4.0 does not release in the next few months i will probably just use 3.0 as it serves all my needs. On a side note the predictive models they are using in 4.0 are cool but how many people are really going to use the feature and or understand all of its limitations?

I also like that it is internet based, then when my computer crashes it does not matter, but the subscription model will always be more expensive.

I may not be imagining all the use cases, but to some extent if you understand the limitations you don't need the model, you can eyeball it really well.

But it is pretty handy. Golden Cheetah already has some similar models built in. Not as robust as Coggan's but for the purposes of estimating your FTP without testing it, and setting power targets for TTs/intervals, should be fine.

Better than the CP model for sure!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I think from a coaching perspective WKO+ 4 is going to be a great leap forward. I love version 3, love the fact I don't have to be connected to the internet to use it, and can really dig into the data. Predictive models and additional run and swim features are just what is needed to make the thing about all you will ever need. Its so frustrating that nothing has been released yet.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

We really don't know if that is true, yet.

Unless they have changed in the last 30 days I'm fairly confident in saying that from looking at them.

I'm not sure if this has any pragmatic difference though.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Are you a beta tester for WKO 4 ? cool if so.
It will be interesting to finally see the AC model, but I am sceptical of a model that calls actual recorded values that exceed the model 'outliers'.
Also, providing a +/- confidence for the model values when there is no way to know if the input data represents all-out efforts seems equally bogus.

Cheers,
Mark