"Age groups are stupid."

I like age groups. I get satisfaction when I am able to compete well against my peers. Besides, when you get to be 59 years old, it is not that easy (fair?) competing against the 30 year-olds (although I can still whip most of those weenies).

My thinking is that the more people who get post race awards the better. Why not add a bit of sports satisfaction to their lives.

BTW- I think the original poster is off base. If someone trains harder
and/or has better genes, so be it.

Ah so after we have multiple examples of name calling and abuse directed at myself the mob now takes the moral high ground. I said if they don't feel a bit hollow about it they it might say something about them, not a personal attack. It can't be personal as it is not directed at a person, is it offensive, I can't say as I'm not an ex pro who fits into this category and as none of these people have come forward and posted on the item I can't say if they are offended.

I think being called a bitch by an another male is offensive and a fair bit more offensive, but as you already know everything I'll let you judge that as you already havemade your mind up and spectaculallry missed the point of the post.

Don't care about the spelling, its a forum where clealry the content is not edited so it's not really worth spell checking so long as the message gets through, maybe you are right, myabe its my spelling that has you confused

The message got through loud and clear, thanks!

Yes - Instead of spending 4 hours a day training, they need to spend 4 hours a day on ST :)

I assume that by huim you are meaning me, I like yoru claim to be trying to figure me out rationally, try focussing on the point, not what you think or want the point to be so that you can sit on here and post sarcy remarks about points that you are taking out of all context.

The point is not about people being faster it is about people who may or may not be having an impact on the experience of others whne they don't suit the cateogory they are in.

Allocate slots in open male using the same formula as for ag grouper, work out what that formula is, percentage time within a pro time perhaps, or through atheletes wanting electing who are good enough.

The Nations Tri in DC has an open category so thye thought it was a good idea and plenty people want to do it, funny how really good people wnat to test themselves against other really good people.

As for your remark on trying to figure me out rationally, well you admitted failure and if you can't understand the point then that says a lot about you

Yawn. Is that all you have on the troll meter?

I understand your point. You're concerned that ex pros are having hollow experiences and potentially ruining AGers days, so they should be in their own category. You are postulating this because it irritates you and is less than satisfying for them.

I'm trying to figure out why you are so slavishly attached to this, that you keep subtly denigrating everyone around you for "not getting it", when most people DO get it, they just think it's a stupid idea.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

I agree with monty. everyone should get over it. when i stopped racing pro (which means you then have to race amateur) i caught so much crap from people even though i was working 70 hours a week trying to get the De Soto Triathlon Company started.

so much so that it made me go off into TRIATHLETE PURGATORY (not pro, not amateur) and would race the few races that did allow you to sign up as elite without a pro card. so i went and raced mountain bikes until they said i had to turn pro at that!

and again, he is correct there is always someone faster than me at age group championships!

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Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

There's one guy around here who I consistently lost to in 45-49 the past few years. Unbelievably fast on the bike. I finally asked him how he managed to get so fast. Turns out he made the 1980 US Olympic team in cycling (I checked him out, and saw he finished ahead of Greg Lemond in the 79 or 80 crit nationals). Such is life. I'm glad he moved to Colorado, it seems.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

so this is a troll is it? I make my point argue it sticking to my rationale and a whole bunch of people jump in a slag me off and say I'm wrong without many offering any good reason why and to top it of they question my manliness and revert to using terms such as bitch. This forum just has so much class.

I'm glad you finally get the point its now only about four hours since the original post, I'm not sure how subtle I was being if that is subtly then I would hate to see obvious. I kept going back to the point as most of the reply posts were focussed on the person and the emotion and not the point, in fact nearly every one of them missed the point entirely hence my posts highlighting the point.

I get it you don't like it, you are the same guys who don't like lots of things unless they align with exactly what you think. I did say I would not sink to your level but as this whole episode has been a classic case of mob mentality, ignoring the facts, taking the time to make lots of vicious personal attacks, well I'll sink to your level.

I was warned that the ST forum was basically a bunch of egostical plonkers who moan about drafting (which every S never does), talk themsleves up and can't hold a logcial discussion you have not dissapointed.

so this is a troll is it? I make my point argue it sticking to my rationale and a whole bunch of people jump in a slag me off and say I'm wrong without many offering any good reason why and to top it of they question my manliness and revert to using terms such as bitch. This forum just has so much class.

Here's what's going on:

1. You seem to care about how you do, that's fine, but there is a big group here and a lot of people in the sport who really don't care how they do. They could not care less about their place or time.

2. There is another group, and perhaps you are part of this, that seem to be a bit incredulous that anyone could be that good. Well, people are that good. Some people are naturally gifted, others who may have trained to a high level years ago, can get by on a remarkable little amount of training and still win their AG.

Personally, the specialty group thing in triathlon has gone too far - does there have to be a category for everyone? Personally, I think it should be Open competition from 20 - 40, Junior for less than 20, and 5 year age-group for masters over 40. That would simplify things greatly. Forget about the pros completely - there is barely enough real Pros.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Yep 1 winner
Just like golf

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

Just a few points:

• This is classic YMCA youth soccer "everyone's a winner" mentality. Dude, only the winner is the winner. And there are only two in every race; one male, one female. After that everyone is just fooling themselves.
  
• Why is it that so many people seem to think pros just eat/sleep/train? Most of the pros have some kind of job or another, and often it is full time. Then add the pro level training to that. Sacrifices are made no matter if your a pro or an AG
  
• Why is it that so many AG's seem to think having a full time job is a disadvantage? I have seen many people with full time jobs actually have a more training friendly schedule. And you don't have to eat mac&cheese for a month to afford your entry fees.
  
• Why is it that AG's are the heart and soul of the sport? Isn't it all the athletes who are the heart and soul of any sport? Somehow in triathlon being slow is an honor and being fast is a curse.
  
• Finally, in the end, I believe we all race triathlon to push our own personal envelope. Ex-pros are not returning to racing because the want to beat up on the weaker AG's. They are coming back to it because they love the challenge and the thrill of competition.
  

P.S. I've said it before, but if the ex-pro's are "stealing" your Kona slots, how do you account the fully sponsored, "professionalized" age groupers beating thier peers?

Jimmy

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Jimmy Archer
Pro Triathlete/Coach/Freelance Writer
http://www.jimmyarcher.com
http://www.dirttri.com

Jimmy,

Best post on the thread. Thanks for the reality check. All true!!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

yeah, we've got a bunch of those out here in calif as well, but they do raise the bar on competition.

to the op, with regard to your comment about quality of pros who 'race down' with the rest of us, levi is signed up for a race here in northern cal this weekend. it's our version of paris-roubaix, and if levi wants to win he will. have you considered that people just like to compete, regardless of their ability?

...beat me to it...

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you know my name, look up my number
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Hey I get your point and in complete fairness you have made a bunch of sensible well reasoned posts and I think you make some very valid points.

Yeah I care about how I do and if that makes my sport less enjoybale for me then that is my problem. I agree with you and know lots of people who are in it for the experience only and I think that is great, they may be in the majoity on ST but it does not look like it from today' episode.

I am not incredulous that people can be that good I have some good mates who have done very good and competitive times at IM, all AG, I have no issue with them being that good.

As I said in the opening of this post, you have made a good point and I agree with it, I have my view that the chest thumping alphacrowd did not agree with and I still know many people who also agree with that view and there are races where it has been done and it works. Are there too many AG, divisions, has Kona become an obsession for some redcuing their enjoyment, probably.

Thankyou for providing some perspective and a reasonable non personal reply. I'll let you know in two years time when I go 9:15 if I think there should be an open male category

Good points, I did not know that there were fully sponsored AG, at the end off the day nobodty is stealing anybody's slot thye go to the fastest people against a set of agreed rules.

I know that pros don't have the coolest life I know a few pros and it can kinda suck for all the reasons you point out.

I think we have done this to death, and there is no harm if holding different points of view

"They set the ultimate benchmark record which we can all strive for IF we want to."

No matter how hard I train, I and 95+% of the other AGers out there do not have the genetic potential to succeed on the same level as a pro. It will never be fair.
An elite masters category is an idea I have been in favor of for awhile. As our sport continues to grow, the numbers of ex pro's returning to race as age groupers will also increase, we all like the challenge of seeing how fast we can go. The pro's are at an entirely different level and they always will be.

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Twitter: @jayasports
Web: http://www.jayasports.com

Right on by Jimmy!

I've seen some age groupers (who are pretty fast) have their very professional looking websites say things like 'John Smith - Triathlon World Champion'...Well, THAT sure is crap!

Unless you're really in the sport, you'd think the dude (or the dudette) is really the world champion...

I'm a very ex-ski pro. Took five years off to have kids and eat. My wife says I didn't help with the kids much, as I was focussed on eating.

Ex-pro in another sport did nothing for me as a trigeek. Hell, I'm still trying to break into the top half of my AG or overall, in any tri I do. Thank god I do this sport for the fun and love of it, and not the adulation I get from admiring fans or sponsors! hehehe

I don't care what category anyone races in. Personally I think we should all just be in one division called the human race, but that's just me. It's bad enough we have men's and womens divisions. (I thougth women wanted to be treated equally to men?). AG's are even worse. Next we will be breaking it down further until I become the best triathlete in my family! Let's just race, and let others do the same, I say. Ex-pro can't cut it any more? call them and AG'er and we can all just race. The label doesn't make any of us any faster or slower, so lets just chill and race!

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Yup, pretty soon you end up making everyone a winner of something. I guess that would make me the winner of the failed-wannabe-pro-surfer-who-also-played-baseball-and-ran-track-over-50 category. Except with my luck, ther would be a couple of other guys in my category who are faster than me.

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Live long and surf!

My son hasn't done a tri since he was about 9 (23 now) but I just hope he doesn't come out of retirement, so I can keep my title as fastest triathlete in my family!

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I guess that would make me the winner of the failed-wannabe-pro-surfer-who-also-played-baseball-and-ran-track-over-50 category. Except with my luck, ther would be a couple of other guys in my category who are faster than me. \\\[/url]

Replace track with water polo, swimming, or bowling, and we have a division...(-;

Watch out I can realy bowl !
Yes it is a super power
And I got 7 kids and a realy big dog giant scar on my leg
Might have my own psuedo age group

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

Well I got no kids, 8 dogs here, and my bowling average this past year for about 200 games is 185...You play poker too????