Ladies and gentleman, may I present to you- John Lennon.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I would strongly suggest none of you do NOLA 70.3. There were some insensitive people there blaring Christian music at one of the aid stations (you could hear it for a ways off). It was hot so I didn't think to be offended (I may have actually enjoyed it at the time) but in hindsight I'm deeply troubled that these unkind and hateful people would do something like this. I mean, it's not like I had a choice...unless I wanted to be DQ'd , I had to go by the aid station and hear the music.

I think the more interesting question is if they had been praying while you were running past them, would you have been expected to stop and stand quietly until they finished or would you have kept running? If you kept running, would that have been deemed 'disrespectful' to them.

We handed out about 60 beers at the top of the last little uphill before the stretch to the Lynch downhill during the Olympic Sunday. Also some OtterPops, bubbles and rocking music. Alas, there simply wasn't room to have a free beer for everyone, but we did our part.

I sprayed a few hundred people down with a cooling mist from my super soaker on saturday, and it was pretty hot, so I'd like to think I helped.

Wildflower is great. Excellent atmosphere. Yes, there is a prayer before the race. Oh, the tragedy. I'll be there either racing or spectating for years to come. Tons of fun.

from the sublime (wildflower titties) to the absurd.......

I've doen NOLA and wildflower. I am not a christian. I am surprised I haven't yet been smote. or smited? smoted?

Give me a concrete example of something I wrote that isn't true, and why?

Just to let you know, but I was raised Catholic and used to go to church every week as a kid. I was baptized, christianed (or however that is called, the 'renewal' of your baptism around age 12). But it became very obvious how religion really didn't make any scientific sense, and the attitude of its leaders was very judgmental (due to the bible?). I've been to the Vatican and thought it was the most disgusting place I have ever seen, which has really shaped my opinion towards religion. Share what you have with the poor? Go to the Vatican and see for yourself. Totally, totally disgusting.

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Don't forget to attack!

You also forgot to mention the child molester priests and associated cover ups.

Now, Obviously many religious people have done many great things, there is no denying that. But if you start your life with a fixed prejudice and intolerance towards certain individuals, I'll have a similar intolerance towards you. If you're gonna act like an asshole in your life, I don't need to tolerate you either.

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Don't forget to attack!

For one to arrive at the belief that another "will go to hell" can often be terribly arrogant, judgmental, and condescending. It as if to say "I am so wise and understanding of the nature of all existence that I am in a position to determine that you are deficient in some manner and it is my place to inform you how to correct your deficiencies." I have a hard time thinking of another position that is in such strong opposition to humility. That may sound unfair, but that message often comes through… intended or not.

I don't particularly mind the prayer over the PA before a race but I agree with others that a gathering of willing participants in a prayer circle or whatever is probably a better way to go.

Awesome thread.

Hmmmm, I guess the strong sense of liberty and independence that this country was founded on just doesn't resonate anymore with the Christians who express some degree of evangelism anymore, and they're too easily "offended" by people asking to be left out of their expressions of faith. How terrible for them. Jeez.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

this really hits the nail on the head for me.

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

That's ridiculous.

So if you go to a restaurant and have a bad meal or poor services, your only option is to not eat there again? It's inappropriate to complain to management or discuss your experience with others? You can't write a yelp review? It's your fault, as you should have done your research before going to the restaurant. (Like reading yelp -- you know, the reviews that others shouldn't have left.)

If someone sees a movie and finds it too violent or graphic for their taste, they're not allowed to complain and tell anyone else, as they should have read the reviews before going in the first place, where they would have easily found out how graphic the movie was?

Again, I agree that it's the race director's decision to run the race as he sees fit, and that includes whether there's a captive audience prayer at the start. But that fact doesn't and shouldn't immunize him from complaints by paying customers.

I have been to Vatican City several times. I am not Catholic because I don't believe in the power of the Catholic church or the order. The Catholic church does not speakk for the Christian world as I align more as a protestant progressive Christian. I certainly respect your beliefs and rights so to label all Christians as you have is wrong and unwarranted. That would be like me labelling all Muslims terrorist bombers - its unwarrante and hurtful and just not true.

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Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA

Let me get this right. Anyone who believes in Jesus or the bible is an intolerant asshole so you will be intolerant and an asshole to them....um.ok.
You do know that non beleiving theologians at majot universities would disagree on what you belief of what the bible teaches to. . However you have a right to your opinion. Nice to know that any individual worldwide who says tbey believe the bible you will treat like an asshole.

I hear what you are saying, but life is all about majority rules. Democracy makes the voice of the weakest as strong as that of the most powerful (1 man, 1 vote), but when a group of like minded people come together, their voices will be the one heard. The minority still has protection to have their voice heard & vote counted, but the most simple concept of democracy is that the majority rules. if that was not the case, we would have had a Green Party president for the last 20 years.

Here's a completely wild analogy: Slowtwitch is a forum for triathletes. People who are strictly runners & not triathletes make up a minority here. If they were to say that they no longer want to see any posts about swimming or cycling, should they get their way even though the majority here are triathletes?

Here's a more apt analogy: You live in an area where cycling is very popular. It's so popular that cyclists on roads has become a major problem because it is impeding vehicular traffic. Your local municipality has decided that it is going to take away the right lane of all roads & convert them into bike only lanes. This has the support of 85% of the community despite the fact that it will come at a cost of $100M in taxpayer dollars. Should the voice of the 5% of the community who does not care about cyclists, does not want to give up a lane of every road, and doesn't want to see $100M of tax dollars wasted on the project be heard over the 85% who support it fully? The 5% still have the same voice as the 85% & can campaign against it, speak at town hall meetings, etc, but in the end, should their voice carry MORE weight than the majority?

Totally get what you have said here and in part agree with it. If I was to say someone is going to hell I would be arrogant and egotistcal. If one believes that the Bible is the Word of God, then that person would be believing what God, the one who created us has said. ..........Now that is a whole other theological discussiion. I would respect the difference of opinion of what someone who believed differently would have to say to that.
For the RD though, the best way to go in his mind is to pray through the PA system. With that, all have a right to lodge a complaint, not do the race, ignore it ect..

What you're saying is, I went to a restaurant, ordered & got exactly what I expected, the food was great, but they had a guy playing acoustic guitar, and I hate freaking acoustic guitar. What the hell, why don't they have the guy play the guitar on their own time, or in the back room for the people who want to listen to guitar. Its offensive.

FIFY

I see Jesus all the time at the local tri. He always wins his age group (2000+):
Decent on the water.


He has an interesting bike set up:


Has leaned-out since the last supper which makes him fast on the run course:

The races I sponsor/emcee I do a short completely ecumenical prayer. I have never had a negative comment. I don't abuse the opportunity either.
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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I found Jesus at a race last year. He passed me on the last bike loop at Cozumel. I tried to follow, but he dropped me. I'm not sure, but I think maybe that walk on water thing didn't work out for him all that well.

What I'm saying is, just as a race director has a right to schedule a captive audience prayer before the event, a paying customer has a right to complain about it.

But to your point, yes, so what if someone complains. If I go to a restuarant and am annoyed by ambient music in the back ground, why do I need to keep my mouth shut about it. If I owned the restaurtant, I would want to know if that annoyed customers. If enough customers complained, I might reconside the practice. And if I didn't like frequenting restaurants that have some Jewel wannabe singing in the background, I'd like to find that out before -- the most likely way to find that out would be reading reviews of the restaurant by other customers. But apparently, you believe those other customers need to shut up.

I actually think the discussion here has been, for the most part, interesting. You apparently believe that it should never have occurred in the first place, as the OP should have just kept quiet about the fact that he was annoyed.

Until last night I would made a statement that music is music, does anyone really listen for a meaning blah blah blah? (Think Styper and Flyleaf)

Then I was forced to listen to an 8-track (no shit, I checked later) of "Sweatin' to the Oldies" while a middle aged woman who resembled Richard Simmons lead a group of very old women in a work out in the pool from the deck.

Now that is insensitive. No one should have to endure that.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

"Well first, it means they are "open to all creeds, religions" etc. as stated in the USAT bylaws."

i ask the question because you can separate USAT into 4 broad categories, in no particular order (except that #4 below is at the top of everything):

first, olympic developmen.

second, it maintains a set of rules of competition and the training and availability of officials to enforce the rules of competition.

third, it provides a framework for inclusion into a world governing body, and to provide a national championship to serve as a WC qualifier in each of triathlon's various disciplines.

fourth, and by far the most important: maintains for race directors a stable, dependable, affordable, renewable, insurance coverage, year after year, in good times and in bad.

you might say, no, that's not all, it's also supposed to make the races safer. fine. but, only to the degree it circles back that point #4. you might say that it also needs to provide rankings, or communication with the membership, or whatever. no. maybe it should and maybe it does. but that stuff is way down the list in importance. if you look at its posture as an entity, what it does very well, what it strives to do, almost everything it does that intersects with the race and race director circles back to #4 above. does forcing him to stop his pre-race prayer provide him with a stable insurance policy? i don't think so. therefore, it's extremely low on USAT's idea of what's important. maybe you think it should be important. but it's not, because it doesn't directly impact #4 above.

if the pre-race prayer tradition grows to include a pre-race baptism, and the water is 52 degrees, and the baptizer does not require wetsuits, this then starts to circle back to #4 above. then maybe USAT might raise an eyebrow. (or if the baptism is held in the ocean in big surf, without lifeguards, as we discovered a month or two ago.)

USAT has these 4 things it does that it cares about, decade after decade. and #4 is more important by far than all the rest combined. the sanctioning office is tasked with #4, and if your complaint, as a member, does not directly impact #4 above, then it's really not a USAT matter, whether or not you think it should be.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Next time it's an issue, turn to look at someone in the physically handicapped division that lost a leg in combat so we can live in such a safe place that we all spend thousands on bikes and can race on the weekend. That's why the national anthem is played.