That is among the most informative, educational, and helpful articles I've read about buying a tri bike. The lesson is applicable to other bikes, as well.

Nicely done.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

so since i think my 55 04 p3sl fits pretty good ..then i might consider a 56p3c if i upgrade??

maybe i should wait for a 06 p3c..they might make some changes??

Thank you very much. I also need to acknowledge a fine customer, Mr. Brad Holden, who graciously allowed us to use his photos and his bike (and his sweet Hummer H3 as a back drop) during his visit to get fitted for a P3C.

Thanks for making the trip Brad!

Also thanks to Aderhold and Kim.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Thanks for the overview of the P3C. I'm getting fitted on Tuesday to my P3C, so it gives me some things to look for.



Also, small correction to your overview "Action Tom" ;-) (meta name). The title tag in your source code should be changed from R2.5 to P3C or P3 Carbon. ;-) Just trying to help.

from the review:
"One criticism, if you like to ride with your saddle slightly off center, angled to one side or the other, you can’t do that on a P3 Carbon. The saddle must be in straight orientation to the frame."

that wouldn't be a criticism for me. More like, "for those of you too uncoordinated to put your saddle on straight, the P3C is the bike for you..."

Great research and very well put together Tom. Even a "layman" like myself can understand the majority of what is said and described. Makes me wonder though...............did I select the perfect size frame for my body ? Oh well , too late now :)

Thanks for providing such an value added service to us guys for free.

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

"When he 54cm did arrive for me I did a test fitting and found its proportions were too large."

Tom - what about the proportions on the 54 being too large made the 51 fit better?

Thanks for the review.

You've bested yourself again Tom.

What an excellent thought provoking article. Exceptionally well written and layman friendly as always. Keep up the good work.

I'd love to see how the 54cm P3C fits compared to a 54cm P2K in both 650/700 designations, since I ride a 54.

Tom, what is your saddle height and also drop from saddle to pads on your P3sl?

Hi Turq,

Good question. I will apologize in advance for the subjective nature of my answer.

In short, it was a case of "Too much bike, not enough dude..."

While Gerard is often a fan of saying something like, "I can ride a 54cm or a 58cm..." when discussing the difference in size I beg to differ (and hope I haven't grossly mis-paraphrased him there).

To get my proper position on the 54cm frame I had to use a 80 mm stem. It felt like there was a lot of bike under me. The thing felt absurdly long and oddly large. It turned like a barge and felt like I was a passenger. I once had a 747 captain describe to me that steering a 747 on the ground is like driving a five-story building. That's what this felt like.

On the 51 cm the fit was nice, nimble and compact. A trifle too compact. It was an angry little bike. It want to twitch and squiggle and turn. I was riding a roller skate. A unicycle in the prone position. It was better to be sure, and very racy. But it just wasn't tame enough.

Now, enter my 53 cm Cervelo P3SL which was right down the middle of the 51cm and 54 cm P3C. Mmmmm. Perfect. Not too small... not too large. All the calculations and measurements "fell" onto that bike perfectly and it handles, rides and steers like a dream. It is an extension of me. Quite nice.

I don't like to generalize about materials because fit is more significant- and the difference in fit is what makes the 53cm P3SL a much better choice for me than either a 51 cm P3C or a 54 cm P3C. As Gerard may say- any of those bikes would work for me, it is a question of which one I feel is best for me, and that is a matter for the tape measure to demonstrate....

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Here you go:

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Not to steal any P3 thunder here Tom, but the new Javelin Barolo's are coming, and are oh-so-sweet

The fit is the same as the Arcole, and it may be a match made in heaven for you

(Just a little bug in your ear)

Hmmmmmmmm.....:)

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Have you heard any word on delivery of 58 P3C's?

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"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"

When you angle the seat 5-15 degrees right or left it takes pressure off of sensitive parts when posistioned forward on the seat. Tiny sacrifice. Sweet review very informative, thanks!

Hey Tom,

That looks to be like a huge stack of spacers, riser stem and riser blocks on the aero bars.

What gives, does all of that stuff effect the handling or put lots of forces against the fork not the head tube?

K

Thanks Tom,

It sounds like what you are saying is that you need to get fit at a Cervelo dealer that has options. I.E. multiple sizes of P3 and P3carbon, and then get the one that fits best?

Tom,

thanks for helping us understand a little more about the P3 C. I found the discussion of your case extremely useful as it calls attention to the fact that the P3 C, despite being such a nice bike, is not a bike for everyone. Would you mind posting your body measurements so that those facing the 54/51 size dilemma (as I am) can have a clue of which way to go?

Read the article and it led me to ask another question, since it was all about fit and handling.

Tom mentioned:

1)Smaller frames are sometimes required for fitting some people's build

2)The smaller frames were a bit "aggressive" in handling compared to the larger ones.



I just was wondering if those two characteristics of the P3C had anyting to do with Zabriske going down in the TTT in France. I do understand that he is not the best pack rider, but does anyone think that maybe there was a contribution due to the bike he was riding?

Corrections on Tom's article:

However, as the rider trends toward the steep end of the fit envelope they may be better served to transition down a frame size to the 54 centimeter frame to avoid having to use too short of a handlebar stem.

Actually, the opposite is true. As you move steeper, you move your body forward and closer to the headtube requiring a longer stem, not a shorter one. So if anything, you would need to move up, not down a size.

The 53 cm P3SL has a total top tube length of 56 cm measured center to center. The 54cm P3 Carbon has a top tube length of 58 cm measured center to center, partially due to the thickness or depth of the seat tube.

This is a completely meaningless comparison as you indicate yourself you don't really know where to measure to (center of the seattube, widest point of the seattube). Of course, none of these make sense, it is all about the line between the bb and the seatpost clamp (in either the forard or rearward position). and guess what happens when you do that - you get exactly the effective toptube numbers that are listed. Do the measurement to the seatpost clamps and you will see that they are identical, there is no difference between the P3 SL and the P3C. The difference you are measuring just shows that we have pushed the seattube/post even more rearwards and upright, so that it ends up with the seatpost in the same spot while covering a bigger portion of the rear wheel. To illustrate the silliness, just look at your own pictures. It clearly shows that the 53cm P3 SL has a longer tube than the 54cm P3C. so either your measurement is wrong or your photos are wrong, or maybe it is just another proof that you cannot tell diddly squat from a photo and so people shouldn't be fitted from photos, and neither should riders or bikes be judged from it.

The 53 cm P3SL had a 52.1 centimeter seat tube from center of bottom bracket to top of seat tube. The 54cm P3 Carbon has a 51.3 centimeter seat tube from center of bottom bracket to top of seat tube. That means the “smaller” P3SL in 53cm is actually 8 millimeters larger than the 54cm P3C.

Actually, that would be a really dumb way to measure. The P3 SL requires a seattube collar, the P3C does not as it is incorporated in the toptube. That extension has nothing to do with small or big. If you measure from the bb to the center or the top of the toptube, not the top of the seattube, you won't have that same finding.

I’ve done a number of fittings on the 51cm, 54cm and 56cm P3 Carbons. In two instances the people who bought 54cm frames were switched onto 51cm frames. In my opinion, the P3C has a tendency to run large.

This is a vague statement, and for most people untrue. The P3 Carbon runs a bit higher, but not longer than the P3 (SL). So it doesn't run big for the vast majority of people, it runs the same as the P3 (SL), with with a spacer less than before (or a slightly bigger angle on the stem) to get to the right bar height.

Final point: I can set up Tom on a P3C so that it will fit exactly the same as his P3 SL. I've done it for 25 CSC riders, I can do it for Tom as well. Of course, fitting yourself is not that easy as you are lacking the perspective (I don't fit myself, I have somebody else do it), but the notion that the P3C would fit differently is incorrect. Let's set up a time at Interbike, Tom.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

you can still do that. Most saddles will allow some "adjustment".

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Actually, smaller frames get less agressive in handling. We are in the midst of a pretty cool bike handling mathematical modeling exercise, and when you look at the dynamic handling curve for a size run, they get a bit less agressive for the smaller sizes.I don't think that had anything to do with Zabriskie either way, as he wasn't on a small frame to begin with.

Sastre is the only one on a small frame (51cm) and it seemed to handle well for him in the Vuelta prologue on a twisty course (fourth place, not bad for a climber).

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle