I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike (Page 2): Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [ntc] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 17 18:24

ntc wrote:

I don't think a front disc wheel on your tri bike would have helped with this situation and would have made handling even more difficult.

Why? I never remember having handling issues, but since I do so slow, ....

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

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h2ofun

Jul 23, 17 18:31

Post #27 of 61 (3316 views)

Sweeney wrote:

Dave, this fork;

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/lynskey-endurance-disc-carbon-road-fork-2017/rp-prod89254

and this disc brake;

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/03/25/tpe17-trp-puts-a-proper-hydraulic-disc-brake-system-on-tttriathlon-bikes-and-more/

would mount right up on your Cervelo.

Then you all you need is a disc brake front hub and have it laced to you favorite rim and you are in business.

Now that I have solved this problem for you, I've got to say; what are you kidding me?! 30 mph is not fast going downhill. It's not even a little fast. At American Zoffingen we usually hit 55 and then go into a hard square left turn. On one of my usual riding loops from home I go over 50 if there is no head wind. I was really disappointed when I went to Tahoe an barely got over 40. I thought I was in the big mountains and I thought I'd get over 60.

Congratulations on your excellent run. But man, with that kind of biking, you need it.

Looked these up. Thanks. But as I have seen, folks can change the front folks on get disc brakes, but front only. I want front and back.

Would also rather buy a bike with everything integrated, but, I still maybe too early.

Thanks

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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Tom A.

Jul 23, 17 18:53

Post #28 of 61 (3300 views)

You don't even know the source of the flat, and that's already convinced you that you need a disc-braked bike for triathlons?

Ummm...ok :-/

You have always marched to the beat of your own drummer, Dave...

BTW, in my experience, if one rides the brakes a lot on descents (and I would consider going only 30mph down a steep hill doing that) I've found that disc braked bikes suffer brake fade more than a quality rim brake setup...even the cable actuated versions (so, not a fluid boiling issue). There's a reason leading custom tandem makers still recommend V-brakes over discs on their forks...

Not to mention that if you do a lot of descending (especially using that "draggy" technique) you'll burn through pads at a pretty high rate (like 1000-1500 miles, or so). I was just discussing that with some friends today on a ride.

Just thought you might want to know that...discs aren't quite the braking panacea they've been hyped to be for road bikes.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]

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Timtek

Jul 23, 17 19:22

Post #29 of 61 (3276 views)

Karl.n wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Karl.n wrote:

What kind of wheels do you race on?

Zipp disc and front Zipp 808

The stop gap solution would be to get aluminum rimmed wheels to race on. Still more reliable than carbon.

This.

Somebody would have to be paying me at least six figures to ride full carbon wheels.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]

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endosch2

Jul 23, 17 20:50

Post #30 of 61 (3236 views)

spntrxi wrote:

So the op flatted .. are you sure it's due to overheat ? Poor braking technique ?

Obviously disc brakes can heat and fade as well.... if your flat was due to something else disc ain't gonna help.

I agree front flats at 30+ are no fun but the ones I've had were due to me hitting something on the road.

This. Disc brakes wont help you with a flat at all, you will still eat it.

I am wondering how on earth you did not know you had a flat, that seems pretty obvious...

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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Sanrafaeltri

Jul 23, 17 22:02

Post #31 of 61 (3219 views)

Dave,

I'm in the same boat (or bike) as you. i did HITS Napa earlier this year and had to stop due to dangerous braking in wet hilly conditions.

I would love a non-super bike option, but right now the only options are Cervelo P5X, which is crazy expensive, the Diamondback Andean, which is less, but still expensive and heavy which is tough on hills but fast aerodynamically and the Parlee TTIR which is fast and similar in price to Andean and i am test riding one Thursday.

i thought about modifying my existing bike, but doesn't seem as safe. i also thought about a road bike and putting on a Tririg Alpha X, but the geometry isn't ideal.

i suspect cannondale and canyon are coming out with disc brake tri bikes in next few months. specialized might too. boardman, cube, bmc, giant, trek and others are definitely not and there is no chinese manufacturer that makes a disc brake frame. i have looked around because i only want a disc brake tri bike (flame me if you want) and am frustrated with limited options.

i will be getting something this winter to replace my 2004 bike frame and if it is the parlee, ill be happy but my wife may be pissed at what it costs.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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mt2u77

Jul 23, 17 22:48

Post #32 of 61 (3201 views)

Isn't something like 90% of your stopping power from the front wheel during hard braking? Seems like replacing the front fork gives you basically all the benefit, since even the crappiest of rear brakes should be easy to lock up when nearly unweighted, and you don't want to do that. It might not look as cool, but fork replacement definitely is the low cost, non-super bike option.

Did you find out what caused the flat? Seems unlikely to be heat on an alloy rim, as the conduction spreads the heat evenly and into the non-braking surface-- lots of surface area for heat exchange with the air.

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [mt2u77] [ In reply to ]

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hutchy_belfast

Jul 23, 17 23:27

Post #33 of 61 (3189 views)

If you don't notice a front flat while descending and consider 30mph dangerously fast I'm going to suggest it impossible that you posses the bike handling and descending skills to melt an inner tube via over heating an aluminium rim.... Unless you weigh 120kg and are descending down alpine switchbacks at 35C. But that wouldn't be compatible with the 'blistering' run pace that you back door bragged about.

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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Sweeney

Jul 24, 17 3:54

Post #34 of 61 (3151 views)

I'm 67. I don't understand why people get more cautious as they get older, but are OK with ''the wrecklessness of youth''. When you are young, you have so much to lose; your whole life is ahead of you. Once you get to Geaserville you've already done it all; got married, had kids, grandkids and you could be gone tomorrow so let it rip!

Regarding the disc brake; You don't need a disc on the rear. Mountain bikers were riding with disc front/ rim rear for years. I'd take a guess that half of the people with rear brakes under the BB aren't getting anything from the rear anyway. If you really want a disc brake for the downhills the way I showed will get you there for a few hundred bucks.

I looked up your result at Donner Lake; great race! It would be great to race you. We swim about the same time, my best olympic swim time is 25:xx two times. I would put a lot of time into you on the bike and I would need it. On the run, you'd be coming after me like a freight train and I'd know you were coming. It would be epic for old guys!

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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xeon

Jul 24, 17 4:12

Post #35 of 61 (3146 views)

Options are few right now, but should be expanding in the next few years. I'd hold off to see what comes into the market... big fan of disc brakes.

In the mean time, maybe you can look at your tire/wheel/tube/brake pad situation.

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

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h2ofun

Jul 24, 17 4:21

Post #36 of 61 (3139 views)

Am bummed with my race, but so so happy I finished. I was actually having, for me, a decent bike. I bet my bike issue cost me about 2 minutes of time going down the last mile so slowly, but I still just need to say it was great to not be hurt.

I still do not know if the flat happened during the race, or after. I still need to look at the bike today and see if something broke, since it sure dd not sound or feel like a flat.

But still, testing the waters to see if any new options for a TT bike with disc brakes are out there is well, ....

Yep, would have been fun to race with you. Maybe in the future.

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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JMike

Jul 24, 17 4:38

Post #37 of 61 (3121 views)

h2ofun wrote:

So raced Donner today. During the steep downhill back to Donner, going 30, with a mile left to go down the hill on the bike, I hear what sounds like a cracking noise. I start thinking my worst fear doing this race. I crash on the killer downhill. I slam on the brakes hoping I could save my self from crashing. I slam on the brakes tight to get down to like 10 mph, unclip a shoe, and wait for destiny. But, for me, I was having a semi decent bike and this was my A race for the season. The mind was all over the map. Do I totally stop and see what is going on and be screwed. I decided to just keep the bike real slow and see if there was anyway I could make it down the rest of the hill for the last mile to get to the run. I made it in one piece as bikers were flying by me.

Headed off on the run trying to make up time and do the best I could. (Was pretty proud of this old guy, 2nd fastest run OA, 6:43 pace. :) )

So after the race I finally went back to the bike to see what damage was done. Turns out I had a flat front tire. I cannot believe I did not crash on the bike.

But, this is now the second time I have had a front wheel issue during races, Donner today, and IMLT 2013, where I am braking a lot in the big hills trying to keep my speed down, I assume the rims overheat, and I have front wheel issues.

So, this now, again, has me thinking, for ME, if I had disc brakes, I could safely do this races with huge hills and not burn up brakes with disc wheels. Now, I am assuming this is true?

So, when do Manufactures announce their 2018 models, or have they already done this? Seems since it has been a few years, that disc brakes may finally be in a few offering of TT bikes? Or course if I do this, I would have to look at electronic, and the Etap from SRAM seems to be the best option with the fewest cables?

Okay, flame away at me for terrible bike handling skills, etc, but for this old guy, I need safety! Looking forward to helpful comments on the bike options for 2018.

And you did Ironman Lake Tahoe

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

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Jan de Visser

Jul 24, 17 5:44

Post #38 of 61 (3090 views)

Sweeney wrote:

.... I'd take a guess that half of the people with rear brakes under the BB aren't getting anything from the rear anyway....

This. I ride a Cervelo P4 and consider the rear brake a regulatory requirement without much practical application, much like lawyer tabs and the little rings on valve stems.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]

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elf6c

Jul 24, 17 6:43

Post #39 of 61 (3064 views)

Isn't the Cannondale Super Slice Disc coming out is Sept/Oct?

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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Sweeney

Jul 24, 17 6:57

Post #40 of 61 (3042 views)

Dave, I just re-read your original post and it doesn't look like you had the flat on that hill. Even though I wrote that 30mph is moderate downhill, getting a front flat at 30 is usually pretty hairy and a loud cracking noise doesn't usually go with a flat tire.

I cracked the frame on my Kestrel Talon at the Haleiwa Triathlon. I heard a loud screeching sound and thought my seat post slipped, but it felt like it was fine. I was relieved and kept going only to find the seat tube cracked after the race. I had agreed to sell it to a Craig's List buyer after the face so that went out the window and I had to ship the broken bike home.

I would thoroughly check that frame and if you don't find anything have someone else check it. That noise came from somewhere.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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Grill

Jul 24, 17 7:04

Post #41 of 61 (3036 views)

So a guy who weighs nothing thinks he's overheating the rim (alu with butyl tubes or what?) due to excessive braking? I reckon if you went to disc brakes you'd just glaze the pads...

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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ntc

Jul 24, 17 7:26

Post #42 of 61 (3021 views)

Just making a joke since the post subject was about front disc wheels not disc brakes.

But my thought on the matter is the only safety hazard here is not being able to tell having a front flat on a descent for an entire mile, likely stemming from never riding a bike outside.

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [JMike] [ In reply to ]

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h2ofun

Jul 24, 17 8:51

Post #43 of 61 (2975 views)

JMike wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

And you did Ironman Lake Tahoe

Yep, and I blew a tire off the front rim on the second lap braking down the steep hill

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

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h2ofun

Jul 24, 17 8:56

Post #44 of 61 (2968 views)

Sweeney wrote:

Yep, that is what I am thinking now. If that flat was on the hill, I would have been toast. It probably happened running the bike back to transition across the bark. Going to check the wheel in a few minutes, but I am expecting to find a thorn.

But, I wiggled my zipp disc and it seems to be moving side to side. So after the front, I will be taking this apart. Now, this seems to have a much better chance of being the issue I heard, and why I did not crash. Clearly it is loose. Sure hope I did not just eat a 2500 buck wheel, but, ...

Still does not change the thoughts I have had for a few years. I have been caught a few times with rain during a race, so I know how dicey rim brakes are in water.
Would love a new bike, I just would like disc brakes as an option. Still may be too early.

Off to looking at my bike. :( And I was having, for me, such a good bike ride for a change. Oh well, this is all for fun, right. :)

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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tfleeger

Jul 24, 17 10:16

Post #45 of 61 (2938 views)

Just buy HED jet black wheels. Great wet stopping. right now at mybikeshop.com 25% off. you can get a front 9 and a rear disc for $1800

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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h2ofun

Jul 24, 17 11:02

Post #46 of 61 (2898 views)

Well, have gone through my bike, and I cannot say heat from braking had anything to do with what happened.

I found a hole in the intertube, and a mark by this location in the tire, so I just have to assume it happened while taking the bike back into T2. This makes more
sense since I have had front flats in the past and once that happened, the bike was unstable and I was done riding.

Since my zipp disc seemed to move side to side a little, I took the axel out and did not see anything funny. Screwed the end cap onto the axel and put back on the bike. No more side to side movement. Took it for a ride and felt nothing funny. So all I can guess is with the real rough road in the race, it caused the zipp rear disc to loosen up a little and it made funny noises. Guess will just ride it again in my next race in 2 weeks and see what happens. Disappointing since I was having a good bike for me and lost a good 2 minutes taking the last mile so slow. Oh well, another day to battle.

But, still going to keep my eyes open for new bikes. But, still not looking like anything at a decent price in the near future.

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

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endosch2

Jul 24, 17 11:06

Post #47 of 61 (2894 views)

Sweeney wrote:

Last edited by: endosch2: Jul 24, 17 11:10

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [endosch2] [ In reply to ]

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Sweeney

Jul 24, 17 13:32

Post #48 of 61 (2841 views)

Every time I come down that front hill in Amerian Zoffingan and into the 90 degree turn, I grab the bakes thinking ''I hope these brakes work!''. So far they have every time.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [xeon] [ In reply to ]

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h2ofun

Jul 24, 17 16:56

Post #49 of 61 (2763 views)

I have a friend who is one of the top racers in our spot. Many times to Kona. He just got a new Felt road bike with disc brakes and I thought some of his comments were interesting.

"Great ride yesterday! So fun to get outdoors for a change! Road my new Felt AR disc road bike. Disc brakes will change your life!:)"

"Why doesn't ST like disc brakes? You watch, most new Tri Bikes will be coming with disc brakes. Most TT bikes, even the "super bikes" have horrible brakes! I will not purchase another bike of any kind without disc brakes....

"

"I don't care what anyone else says the braking and modulation with disc brakes is FAR superior to rim brakes. BTW- I've blown a latex tube (Rear) on the final decent into T2 at Wildflower- not fun. Carbon wheels will begin to melt at 400+/- degrees. Disc brakes are designed to operate at 1000+ degrees and are virtually impossible to overheat... The industry will ALL going to disc making a rimmed brake purchase a bad one IMO. Bike manufacturers will love this as well because it will require all the wannabees to purchase a new bike. In the last 2 weeks I've descended Donner and 49- NIGHT AND DAY!! Even aluminum rimmed brakes are far inferior!"

"I think you will see disc brakes make a major appearance by ALL companies very soon!"

Just one persons opinion. :)

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Re: I may start looking for a Disc wheel tri bike [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

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Murphy'sLaw

Jul 24, 17 17:32

Post #50 of 61 (2743 views)

Brakes - all they do is slow ya down.

Good rim brakes (I have the Magura hydraulics) on alloy rims is more than sufficient braking, in pretty much any conditions.
The contact patch of skinny road tires is a greater limiter than the brake/rim interface, assuming you have good pads in good condition.

Perhaps if you rode outdoors more than just on raceday, you'd be a more confident bike handler and not have to overbrake so much?
There's a lot more to riding a bike than pedaling it - but that's the only bike skill you ever choose to train.

Sweeney's suggestion is a good one, and the least spendy fix for your needs, as 70-90% of your braking comes from the F wheel anyway, and even a crappy R brake (the P4's excepted) can easily lock up the R tire, even when the rims are wet.

You don't need a new bike. It's not the solution for the problems you're encountering.
But any excuse to buy a new bike is a good one! So enjoy some P = n + 1.

float , hammer , and jog

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