I'm super happy for Hasay. It seems like she has struggled with finding her "niche" in running for the last couple of years. Not fast enough at the short distances, but damn, 2:23 right out of the gate is amazing. Say what you will about Salazar, but he got her into the right distance and training, and it paid off.

62 runners have run faster than today's winner so far this year. And this is before London.

79 have run faster than Rupp.

When Rupp take part in any of the fast marathons with the best, then we can see what he can do on marathon.
Even Mo struggled in London when he tried. If I am not totally wrong he ran "only" 2.08.

But if Rupp is smart, he would focus on American marathons and championships, that will most likely give hime more attention and money.

Rupp is definitely one of the best American Distance runners of the last 20 years.

He has medaled in big tactical races. He has set records.

But he needs an outright victory.

Today might have been that day.

Not sure what he was missing. He beat that guy at the Olympics and his 10k PR is 10 seconds faster.

Oh well.
Next time.

i was 3/4 way up heart break hill. rupp ran by with the winner on his side, and the eventual 4th or 5th place runner on his other side. he was looking great. i was surprised to see them all side by side at that pace.

the eventual 3rd place winner (jpn, marathon debut) was 15-20 seconds back if i recall correctly. if galen was truly dropped, it had to have been at the top of HBH or afterwards. the sun really kicked out as they ran by and the temps got "hot" for a brief period. surprised the race wasn't faster, tail wind the whole time.

john

I guess Rupp is chasing dollars now (which I don't fault) as I don't see him as a 2:05 guy. That means there are a lot of people ahead of him in the marathon than in the 10000m.

His 10000m is (was) a lot more competitive.

I would prefer to see him stay with the 10000m and be top competitor. But I guess everyone moves up eventually (or retires).

There's still plenty of money flowing through those athletic federations and the star athletes themselves. If we can broadly put doping into one of 3 categories: 1) state-sponsored, 2) corporate-sponsored, 3) self-funded, a poor country only has one avenue cut off.

Rupp can race a 10,000m just as fast as any 10,000m runner in the world (you kind of have to have some decent closing speed to have an Olympic 10,000 silver). Don't let the times others have posted from fast marathons be the gauge of how fast or slow Rupp is at 26.2 miles. He just has not YET run a marathon on a blazing fast course.

How many of those 79 have run only 3 career marathons? Rupp also only has 3 halfs to his name as well which is likely less than most, if not all, of the runners in front of him.

It's tough to say what he'd be able to run on a fast course with a number of of 2:05 guys. He's got a faster 10k pr than Mo, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect he'd be able to run a faster marathon than Mo. His time today was within range of Ryan Hall's 2nd and 3rd best Boston times. It's way back from his 2011 time, but the tail winds were strong that year

To go 1st, 3rd, and 2nd in his only three marathons is impressive, but I think it's also is a hint as to how he/Salazar have approached training/racing which is to focus on podiums. IMO he has a chance to break the American records for the half and full which (combined with his 10k record and two Olympic medals) could make him the greatest American distance runner of all time.

That said, I don't see him at the absolute pointy end of marathon runners. It's just too competitive these days with all the top 10k guys from a decade ago dominating the fast races.

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Matt

Hey...I am from Ohio and done the pig farming thing and I guarantee you that we were not rolling in dough, rolling in something else happened from time to time though

How may has three marathon?
Well, you can start with today's winner. This was his third and slowest.

Kirui, who ran 2:07:23 (3rd Rotterdam) and 2:06:27 (7th Amsterdam) in his first two marathons last year and also is the 2nd fastest junior in history at 10,000 thanks to the 26:55.73 he ran at age 18 in 2011, had enough of a cushion that he was able to celebrate his first career marathon victory on the way home coming down Boylston street.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/04/geoffrey-kirui-outduels-galen-rupp-final-5-miles-win-2017-boston-marathon/

Also, the 2011 winner Moses Mosop won on his first marathon ever with a time of 2.03.06.
http://www.jonmulkeen.com/blog/athletics/fastest-marathon-debuts/

Goddamit, that's genius. There's my whole problem - been focusing on mediocre mid-pack finishes.

I should've probably clarified that to make it seem less silly. Salazar's athletes tend to have medals/podiums which are more impressive than their times. A couple examples of the top of my head...

In 2016, Matt Centrowitz's PR in the 1500 for 2016 was just the 21st best time in the world that year. Yet he won gold in Rio

Mo Farrah is one of only two runner to ever win the 5k/10k double in two olympics. However he is just 31st all-time on the 5K list and 16th on the 10k list. Interestingly enough he is 9th all-time in the 1500 - a race he has not medaled in the olympics or world championships

No clue how Salazar's group goes about doing this in practice, but it certainly plays out a bit differently on race day than guys like Bekele or Geb who have less Olympic medals (than Mo) but have a whole bunch of times that are a whole lot faster.

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Matt

Yes. Your post made it sound like you think there are currently 79 individuals in the world who are better marathon runners than Rupp. But simply looking at a list of times doesn't tell the whole story with the marathon. Comparing times straight across on different courses doesn't work. Heck, even looking at the same course from one year to the next doesn't tell the whole story. In the 2011 race (which by the way was won by Mutai and not Mosop), there was a huge tailwind. They were both 3 minutes faster than the old course record and neither has come within a minute of their time that day. Ryan Hall's time that year was 4 minutes faster than his next best time in Boston. In addition, experience often pays off as (to a certain extent), the more you race the distance, the faster you will become. Rupp is just 3 marathons into his career. I'm guessing that the majority of individuals on that list have raced more marathons. I'm not saying that there are not faster marathoners than Rupp, because there most certainly are, but implying that he is the 80th best just because he hasn't run on a fast course doesn't do the guy justice.

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Matt

Rupp struggled with plantar fasciitis earlier this year, so there's a possibility that he wasn't really 100%.

The thing is, both Rupp and Farah are tactical racers. They sit and kick and don't go after records. If you look at Hall he would actually go out to win and would often push the pace which of course he suffered a lot from as well. Rupp seemed a lot better than his half in Portugal, and he obviously has the speed for a fast marathon so question is if he will start in a stacked marathon and try and find his potential.
Rupp also today became the first american in 15 years to run sub 4 (3:50) and sub 2:10 (2:09:58) and only 4th ever.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Clayton was a very lazy runner in high school and would not apply himself. Obviously his coach at Akron got though to him and he started to work hard. No way this kid is on PEDs, he just started putting effort into his running.

Hard to believe it's been 14 years since she was in School of Rock

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I was not suggesting either was using drugs. I was just pointing out that you should not look at a "kid" to see if they have the resources to cheat, You need to look at the Dad.

I did not imply that Rupp is number 80 in the world.
I am saying that until he race some of the big and fast races we do not know.

But I expect him to race they way that is good for an American. Stay at home, focus on races that get attention in US media, and run championship races (mostly olympics).

Thanks for correcting me on Mosop. I had forgotten that he got second.

To run a very fast marathon you need aggression - and to take risk from early on. The thing is Rupp never had to take risks in all of his three races. And it would even have been stupid to do so.

Trials were his first Marathon, so he needed to be conservative. And the point of trials is just to make the team. No need to test your max

The Olympic marathon is special in itself. It is very tactical and again it is all about medals, not being fast. Of you want to podium you not only watch yourself but just as much your competition. No need to try something on your own and blow up, at least not of you have the kick of Rupp. To hang OK until the ende and only got beaten by two of the studs of the sport is not just a sign of glass but also smartness (hiding, cooling, nutrition etc.)

In Boston Rupp run to win. Not for a time. I think he would have chosen to run 2:10 and win over 2:03 and coming second. It is also about building legacy. For a fast time he could have gone to London. But to win Boston as an American, that is a very big thing. And something, other than time, your casual armchair Quarterback and hobby jogger can relate to (for them a 2:03 and 2:10 are both equally freakish). So again Boston was just about placing. There are no rabbits and why pushing the pace when you can conservatively sit in the group and prepare for your move or those to cover. And it nearly worked. Had yesterdays winner waited two more miles with his move, I think Rupp could have covered it and outkicked him.

Fast times usually need rabbits or at least a handfull of fearless africans committed to the pace. Then it is a game of survival and it can eat away anyone not called Kipchoge. Rupp is not fearless and he doesn't need to be. No point in playing with the fire yet, because it is too dangerous. He has the possibility to wait until he has figured out the distance before setting an attempt on a very fast time.
And it is not even clear if he ever choses to. Like others mentioned, Rupp and Salazar seem to be more obsessed with titles than fast times.

I find Rupps 10000m silver his greatest and most surprising feature so far. But nonetheless were his marathons and yesterdays Boston very strong performances. He might have all the ingredients to become the best non-african marathoner of all time. But only time will tell.

I was not particularly answering to you, Dev, but to the thread as a whole.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

You know the more you think about it going for fast times makes no sense from a career angle. Those fast times dissappear into oblivion when someone else runs faster. Salazar won multiple marathons and others than a few dinosaurs like myself who were around back then, no one remembers the times, you just remember the wins/podiums. So Rupp's tactic makes sense...and in terms of career longevity, maybe better to run on slow courses that you podium in than a full out drag race at the limit for 2ish hours.

Sponsors care about what hobby joggers mainly care about. As you said, 2:03 and 2:10 are the same to the hobby jogger buying from Nike, so it is more important to do well in things that the buyers of Nike care about. That's placing in major events...ideally winning.

He certainty isn't only the 80th fastest, but no matter the course, I don't see him as top twenty in the world right now.

I haven't taken the time to be sure, but in 2016 to date there have been almost 40 sub 2:07 marathons. I am not sure I see Rupp as a mid 2:06 guy. Accordingly, I just don't think he Is in the mix to be considered a world class marathoner - no matter what he places here and there.

Now he has surprised me before (26:44), but 2:05/2:06 territory is really out there - can he stay injury free at this age long enough to find his limit? Seems unlikely.

He certainty isn't only the 80th fastest, but no matter the course, I don't see him as top twenty in the world right now.

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Does it matter where your time stacks up when you just got 2nd at Boston and bronze in Olympics 8 months ago?

Something about missing the forest for the trees should apply here. Who cares what your times are if your podiuming at major races.

ETA: how many faster people has he beaten heads up in the last 2 marathons? There was what 5 or 6 Kenyans in the front group the ended up widdling itself down by the end.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

As I said earlier, chasing $$$ is legit, but if all things were equal, I would rather have a world record than a gold medal.

My point is simply that Rupp can finish his career being strategic about where and when he races, but, to me, he won't be a great marathoner until he runs 2:06 or better, no matter his podium finishes.

To be clear, he is one of america's top runners of all time, and his range is really internationally elite, just not yet a marathon sensation in my mind.