It's 70*F and sunny with a tail wind so cooling will be critical. I see Jordan Hasay and Desi L dumping water on themselves regularly to stay cool.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Anyone know where to get online updates? I can't log in to the nbc stream.

  


http://raceday.baa.org/default.html




http://sports.le.com/...ive/1020170410112537

Narration in Chinese.

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Once, I was fast. But I got over it.

devashish_paul wrote:

In through 15 in in a touch over 45 minutes with all the leaders. How is he going to do today?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2017/03/07/fbi-joins-probe-mo-farah-coach-alberto-salazar/




https://www.si.com/olympics/2017/03/05/alberto-salazar-doping-investigation-usada-leaked-report-nike


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-4279534/Alberto-Salazar-controversy-details-USADA-report.html


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/25/alberto-salazar-link-mo-farah-leaked-us-report-usada-russian-hackers


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/sports/usada-track-and-field-doping-jeffrey-brown-investigation.html

Thank you!

Down to 2 at 20 miles. He's one of them.

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Let food be thy medicine...

Just passed 24 mile mark. About 15-20 seconds behind leader.

He is almost champion again!

According to the tracker, second by 21 seconds.

Came 2nd. Great performance. PR by a few seconds.

Kirui laid down a monster surge to gap him. The announcers said a 4:26 mile. Great work.

Good run by Galen. Anyone else torn while watching? On the one hand,.."go America",....on the other hand. Ugghhh, Nike Oregon project. http://www.spiegel.de/...nners-a-1137229.html

How about Jordan Hasay, her time compared to the elite mens times is pretty dam good, even though she only got 3rd. The Womens race was much more competitive than the mens it looks like, 2;23 for third, that time can win the race on many years...

I bring her up because she is a local runner from around here that went to college to be a star, but never really panned out. I think because the race were too short, so we will see how she does in world class marathon running. Early results are promising..

Nike Oregon had #2 and #3 men plus #3 woman (who ran the 4th fastest American female time in her debut race).

I am not worrying about stuff outside my control at this point watching pro sports. Whether it is the Oregon project, Sky, Movistar, the New England Patriots etc etc....someone else has to monitor that all these guys are playing inside the rules. I'm just going to donate my eyeballs to the advertizers and watch the show because it is entertaining. Hopefully I am watching a level playing field, but if I am not, I won't be surprised.

I would have preferred if Galen won because I have no belief that any of his competitors are doing anything indifferently from what is going on at the Oregon project. Salazar does not have a monopoly on access to whatever means the rest of the world has access to. We'd be a fools to believe the others only do things on bread and water and the 7000 ft altitude in Iten Kenya.

Amen, Dev.

Rupp looked really solid until that 4:26 mile by Kirui. I thought he was going to drop the hammer on the hills, and pull away.

Americans are running great races even outside NOP. Clayton Murphy is a college student at AKRON who got a bronze medal in the Olympics 800 last year and just ran 1:43. I simply don't think a low level D1 college kid has the money and ability to score PED's.

He probably doesn't have the money, but his dad might.

devashish_paul wrote:

.... We'd be a fools to believe the others only do things on bread and water and the 7000 ft altitude in Iten Kenya.

Yeah, nothing to see here on the Kenyan front;

Jemima Sumgong(EPO)
Rita Jeptoo(EPO)
Wilson Loyanae(EPO)
Pamela Chepchumba(EPO)
Julia Muraga(EPO)
Ronald Rutto(EPO)
Lilian Marita(anabolic agent)
Emily Chebet(Furosemide)
Agatha Jeruto(Norandrosterone)
Francisca Koki(Furosemide)
Joyce Zakari(Furosemide)
Mathew Kisorio (Norandrosterone)
Rael Kiyara (Norandrosterone)
Elizabeth Muthuka (Norandrosterone)
Janet Ongera (Norandrosterone)
Agnes Jepkosgei (Norandrosterone)
Bernard Mwendia (Norandrosterone)
Judy Kimunge (Norandrosterone)
Joyce Jemutai (Norandrosterone)
Koki Manunga(Nandrolone)
Mutai Julius (Norandrosterone)
Mutinda Joseph (Norandrosterone)
Isaac Kemboi (Norandrosterone)
Benjamin Kiprop (Norandrosterone)
Philip Kandie (Norandrosterone)
Tanui Stephen(Norandrosterone)
Nyankabaria James(Norandrosterone)
Jepkoech Chepkorir(Norandrosterone)
Kiplimo Jacqueline (Norandrosterone)
Chepkorir Emily (Norandrosterone)
Viola Kimetto (Norandrosterone)
Flomena Chepchirchir (? six months)
Susan Chepkemei (Salbutamol one year)
Pauline Kahenya (Prednisone one year)
Simon Kemboi (Nandrolone)
Sammy Mutahi (? disqualification of results)
Cyrus Gichobi (? eight months)
David Munyasia (Cathine)
Stephen Kibet (? two years)
Elizabeth Chelagat (? two years)
Ndirangu Alice (Clenbuterol)
Kipkurui Benjamin (Methylprednisolone)
Lydia Cheromei (Clomiphene)
Delilah Asiago (?)

Note that this would read "exactly like" an NFL starting lineup list for any team if you actually tested (just change which drug appears in brackets). If you are in Kenya and reasonably good you can dope and be awesome and make a decent living or you can undope and make nothing and go work on the farm....no different than the college kid trying to get into the NFL. I am not saying I agree with it, but if you can dope in Iten and win the Mumbai marathon and score $100,000 and not be tested or score several $10's K finishing in the top 10 in many marathons or get paid to be a pacer, vs tilling soil in a field in Kenya, what do you think the kid will do? We're viewing this from a western rich guy altruistic lens vs the poor Kenyan "get rich through athletics" lens. You need to view this like the poor kid from the NYC projects trying to make the NFL and understand the jackpot that elite marathoning is for these guys. This is not a game for your 40 something banker to lose weight after getting off the couch and Boston Qual and post the finisher medal on facebook!

There are a lot of PEDs that can be had extremely cheaply. Look at Christian Hesch. Drove over the border to Tijuana to buy EPO. Guy works as an EMT. In the BBC/ProPublic expose, they just did some shopping via Tor and bought EPO from China.

Testosterone, HGH, and others are easily obtained from any number of "male enhancement" clinics - like NuMale, the one time USAT sponsor.

And one simply needs to do a brief perusal of the USAT HRL to see how many OTC "supplements" contain - typically by design - very serious PEDs.

I would not consider cost to be a significant barrier to PED use. If anything, that ought to be the biggest lesson from Kenya/Ethiopia/Jamaica/etc. It's that these drugs can be had cheaply and easily. These are not wealthy countries. It's the more sophisticated, TUE-based stuff that requires the real money.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Yes, because pig farmers from Ohio are generally rolling in dough.

Can we just turn this thread back to a discussion on the actual racing and tactics vs who doped or not. To level the playing field, let's just assume we're all watching pro sports and everyone is doped/blood manipulated/TUE manipulated. But there is still a race going on on that playing field.

Just like Rio, Rupp was able to hang in on a "hotter day" which should be unfavorable for a larger guy (large is lose term here, but he's larger than a lot of elite marathoners) and manage the day and hang in for second in a sub 2:10. I would like to see that Galen can run on a course like Berlin with a bunch of pacers. He clearly has the 5000m and 10000m speed to hang with the fastest Kenyans in the 2:03 range. He's only run two marathons that are a competition for position, not a TTT.

You are likely right, but I'm not going to be calling these pro athletes by their first names. To me that seems to be telling these athletes and everyone else, I'm cool with anything you're doing.

Hasay is the story of the day for me. What a mixture of emotions must have been going through her head this morning.

lnspiring to see former winner Amby Burfoot finish another Boston. He has now joined three other runners known to have finished marathons in 7 consecutive decades - http://www.7decadesmarathon.com/

"Hasay is the story of the day for me. What a mixture of emotions must have been going through her head this morning. "



https://www.facebook.com/...s/10155262738542010/

I'm super happy for Hasay. It seems like she has struggled with finding her "niche" in running for the last couple of years. Not fast enough at the short distances, but damn, 2:23 right out of the gate is amazing. Say what you will about Salazar, but he got her into the right distance and training, and it paid off.

62 runners have run faster than today's winner so far this year. And this is before London.

79 have run faster than Rupp.

When Rupp take part in any of the fast marathons with the best, then we can see what he can do on marathon.
Even Mo struggled in London when he tried. If I am not totally wrong he ran "only" 2.08.

But if Rupp is smart, he would focus on American marathons and championships, that will most likely give hime more attention and money.

Rupp is definitely one of the best American Distance runners of the last 20 years.

He has medaled in big tactical races. He has set records.

But he needs an outright victory.

Today might have been that day.

Not sure what he was missing. He beat that guy at the Olympics and his 10k PR is 10 seconds faster.

Oh well.
Next time.

i was 3/4 way up heart break hill. rupp ran by with the winner on his side, and the eventual 4th or 5th place runner on his other side. he was looking great. i was surprised to see them all side by side at that pace.

the eventual 3rd place winner (jpn, marathon debut) was 15-20 seconds back if i recall correctly. if galen was truly dropped, it had to have been at the top of HBH or afterwards. the sun really kicked out as they ran by and the temps got "hot" for a brief period. surprised the race wasn't faster, tail wind the whole time.

john

I guess Rupp is chasing dollars now (which I don't fault) as I don't see him as a 2:05 guy. That means there are a lot of people ahead of him in the marathon than in the 10000m.

His 10000m is (was) a lot more competitive.

I would prefer to see him stay with the 10000m and be top competitor. But I guess everyone moves up eventually (or retires).

There's still plenty of money flowing through those athletic federations and the star athletes themselves. If we can broadly put doping into one of 3 categories: 1) state-sponsored, 2) corporate-sponsored, 3) self-funded, a poor country only has one avenue cut off.

Rupp can race a 10,000m just as fast as any 10,000m runner in the world (you kind of have to have some decent closing speed to have an Olympic 10,000 silver). Don't let the times others have posted from fast marathons be the gauge of how fast or slow Rupp is at 26.2 miles. He just has not YET run a marathon on a blazing fast course.

How many of those 79 have run only 3 career marathons? Rupp also only has 3 halfs to his name as well which is likely less than most, if not all, of the runners in front of him.

It's tough to say what he'd be able to run on a fast course with a number of of 2:05 guys. He's got a faster 10k pr than Mo, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect he'd be able to run a faster marathon than Mo. His time today was within range of Ryan Hall's 2nd and 3rd best Boston times. It's way back from his 2011 time, but the tail winds were strong that year

To go 1st, 3rd, and 2nd in his only three marathons is impressive, but I think it's also is a hint as to how he/Salazar have approached training/racing which is to focus on podiums. IMO he has a chance to break the American records for the half and full which (combined with his 10k record and two Olympic medals) could make him the greatest American distance runner of all time.

That said, I don't see him at the absolute pointy end of marathon runners. It's just too competitive these days with all the top 10k guys from a decade ago dominating the fast races.

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Matt

Hey...I am from Ohio and done the pig farming thing and I guarantee you that we were not rolling in dough, rolling in something else happened from time to time though

How may has three marathon?
Well, you can start with today's winner. This was his third and slowest.

Kirui, who ran 2:07:23 (3rd Rotterdam) and 2:06:27 (7th Amsterdam) in his first two marathons last year and also is the 2nd fastest junior in history at 10,000 thanks to the 26:55.73 he ran at age 18 in 2011, had enough of a cushion that he was able to celebrate his first career marathon victory on the way home coming down Boylston street.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/04/geoffrey-kirui-outduels-galen-rupp-final-5-miles-win-2017-boston-marathon/

Also, the 2011 winner Moses Mosop won on his first marathon ever with a time of 2.03.06.
http://www.jonmulkeen.com/blog/athletics/fastest-marathon-debuts/

Goddamit, that's genius. There's my whole problem - been focusing on mediocre mid-pack finishes.

I should've probably clarified that to make it seem less silly. Salazar's athletes tend to have medals/podiums which are more impressive than their times. A couple examples of the top of my head...

In 2016, Matt Centrowitz's PR in the 1500 for 2016 was just the 21st best time in the world that year. Yet he won gold in Rio

Mo Farrah is one of only two runner to ever win the 5k/10k double in two olympics. However he is just 31st all-time on the 5K list and 16th on the 10k list. Interestingly enough he is 9th all-time in the 1500 - a race he has not medaled in the olympics or world championships

No clue how Salazar's group goes about doing this in practice, but it certainly plays out a bit differently on race day than guys like Bekele or Geb who have less Olympic medals (than Mo) but have a whole bunch of times that are a whole lot faster.

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Matt

Yes. Your post made it sound like you think there are currently 79 individuals in the world who are better marathon runners than Rupp. But simply looking at a list of times doesn't tell the whole story with the marathon. Comparing times straight across on different courses doesn't work. Heck, even looking at the same course from one year to the next doesn't tell the whole story. In the 2011 race (which by the way was won by Mutai and not Mosop), there was a huge tailwind. They were both 3 minutes faster than the old course record and neither has come within a minute of their time that day. Ryan Hall's time that year was 4 minutes faster than his next best time in Boston. In addition, experience often pays off as (to a certain extent), the more you race the distance, the faster you will become. Rupp is just 3 marathons into his career. I'm guessing that the majority of individuals on that list have raced more marathons. I'm not saying that there are not faster marathoners than Rupp, because there most certainly are, but implying that he is the 80th best just because he hasn't run on a fast course doesn't do the guy justice.

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Matt

Rupp struggled with plantar fasciitis earlier this year, so there's a possibility that he wasn't really 100%.

The thing is, both Rupp and Farah are tactical racers. They sit and kick and don't go after records. If you look at Hall he would actually go out to win and would often push the pace which of course he suffered a lot from as well. Rupp seemed a lot better than his half in Portugal, and he obviously has the speed for a fast marathon so question is if he will start in a stacked marathon and try and find his potential.
Rupp also today became the first american in 15 years to run sub 4 (3:50) and sub 2:10 (2:09:58) and only 4th ever.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Clayton was a very lazy runner in high school and would not apply himself. Obviously his coach at Akron got though to him and he started to work hard. No way this kid is on PEDs, he just started putting effort into his running.

Hard to believe it's been 14 years since she was in School of Rock

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I was not suggesting either was using drugs. I was just pointing out that you should not look at a "kid" to see if they have the resources to cheat, You need to look at the Dad.

I did not imply that Rupp is number 80 in the world.
I am saying that until he race some of the big and fast races we do not know.

But I expect him to race they way that is good for an American. Stay at home, focus on races that get attention in US media, and run championship races (mostly olympics).

Thanks for correcting me on Mosop. I had forgotten that he got second.

To run a very fast marathon you need aggression - and to take risk from early on. The thing is Rupp never had to take risks in all of his three races. And it would even have been stupid to do so.

Trials were his first Marathon, so he needed to be conservative. And the point of trials is just to make the team. No need to test your max

The Olympic marathon is special in itself. It is very tactical and again it is all about medals, not being fast. Of you want to podium you not only watch yourself but just as much your competition. No need to try something on your own and blow up, at least not of you have the kick of Rupp. To hang OK until the ende and only got beaten by two of the studs of the sport is not just a sign of glass but also smartness (hiding, cooling, nutrition etc.)

In Boston Rupp run to win. Not for a time. I think he would have chosen to run 2:10 and win over 2:03 and coming second. It is also about building legacy. For a fast time he could have gone to London. But to win Boston as an American, that is a very big thing. And something, other than time, your casual armchair Quarterback and hobby jogger can relate to (for them a 2:03 and 2:10 are both equally freakish). So again Boston was just about placing. There are no rabbits and why pushing the pace when you can conservatively sit in the group and prepare for your move or those to cover. And it nearly worked. Had yesterdays winner waited two more miles with his move, I think Rupp could have covered it and outkicked him.

Fast times usually need rabbits or at least a handfull of fearless africans committed to the pace. Then it is a game of survival and it can eat away anyone not called Kipchoge. Rupp is not fearless and he doesn't need to be. No point in playing with the fire yet, because it is too dangerous. He has the possibility to wait until he has figured out the distance before setting an attempt on a very fast time.
And it is not even clear if he ever choses to. Like others mentioned, Rupp and Salazar seem to be more obsessed with titles than fast times.

I find Rupps 10000m silver his greatest and most surprising feature so far. But nonetheless were his marathons and yesterdays Boston very strong performances. He might have all the ingredients to become the best non-african marathoner of all time. But only time will tell.

I was not particularly answering to you, Dev, but to the thread as a whole.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

You know the more you think about it going for fast times makes no sense from a career angle. Those fast times dissappear into oblivion when someone else runs faster. Salazar won multiple marathons and others than a few dinosaurs like myself who were around back then, no one remembers the times, you just remember the wins/podiums. So Rupp's tactic makes sense...and in terms of career longevity, maybe better to run on slow courses that you podium in than a full out drag race at the limit for 2ish hours.

Sponsors care about what hobby joggers mainly care about. As you said, 2:03 and 2:10 are the same to the hobby jogger buying from Nike, so it is more important to do well in things that the buyers of Nike care about. That's placing in major events...ideally winning.

He certainty isn't only the 80th fastest, but no matter the course, I don't see him as top twenty in the world right now.

I haven't taken the time to be sure, but in 2016 to date there have been almost 40 sub 2:07 marathons. I am not sure I see Rupp as a mid 2:06 guy. Accordingly, I just don't think he Is in the mix to be considered a world class marathoner - no matter what he places here and there.

Now he has surprised me before (26:44), but 2:05/2:06 territory is really out there - can he stay injury free at this age long enough to find his limit? Seems unlikely.

He certainty isn't only the 80th fastest, but no matter the course, I don't see him as top twenty in the world right now.

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Does it matter where your time stacks up when you just got 2nd at Boston and bronze in Olympics 8 months ago?

Something about missing the forest for the trees should apply here. Who cares what your times are if your podiuming at major races.

ETA: how many faster people has he beaten heads up in the last 2 marathons? There was what 5 or 6 Kenyans in the front group the ended up widdling itself down by the end.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

As I said earlier, chasing $$$ is legit, but if all things were equal, I would rather have a world record than a gold medal.

My point is simply that Rupp can finish his career being strategic about where and when he races, but, to me, he won't be a great marathoner until he runs 2:06 or better, no matter his podium finishes.

To be clear, he is one of america's top runners of all time, and his range is really internationally elite, just not yet a marathon sensation in my mind.

Sure, it makes more sense to just try and win but where is the fun in that? I also believe that you have to truly be on another level as an athlete to be willing to risk the win and go for the record. Look at guys like Bekele and Geb who have slaughtered the previous records and not only gone after the wins. In tri you have guys like Tim Don who are smart racers and then guys like Frodo who will give it his all.
In swimming this is not a problem as essentially every heat is a tt, which is why so many records are broken.
I understand that money comes into play for most of these guys, I just think the whole sit and kick style of racing is just not as fun to watch and also leaves me wondering how fast Mo, Rupp etc could have gone.
Imagine if more people would race like rudisha

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

x2 on that. Agreed 100% on very thing you posted there!

Fast times are transitional in nature. Today's fast time, is tomorrow's slow time. Podiums and particularly wins stand the test of time....oh yeah and Joan Benoit's 1984 Gold medal winning time get's her 4th in Boston yesterday, but her 1983 Boston winning time also gets her a 2nd yesterday. But other than a few idiots like me tracking this stuff, no one cares about the time, Joan won Boston 83 and Olympics 84. This is what casual fans care about.

 I would rather have a world record than a gold medal.

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You would be in overwhelming minority.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I agree. One is temporary, the other lasts forever.

Let's run a litmus test and ask Frodo which one he would rather have.

This is the ole:
Do you like ice cream or cake question?

With a world record you know at that moment you have beaten everyone else who has ever run your distance, and you are the best there has ever been (excepting the slim possibility that someone did so not in competition). That may change at some point, but until it does you are the very best human in the history of the event.

With a gold medal, you are the best on the day but there are a lot of others out there that might have been able to beat you as well. Look at so many Oly 1500m races, the medalists are often "flukes". It is a great skill to put it all together at the right time on the right stage, but that is less about being the fastest as it is about some other variables.

Some thoughts, analysis and questions.

Thought:
1) One might analyze a tactical race with the following questions:
How hard is it to run the key tactical part of the race the way the winners did?
Analysis KM 30-35 - when I adjust for elevation, I calculate Kirui and Rupp ran this segment at the equivalent of 2:06:xx pace.
KM 35 -40. Kirui ran 2:02:45 pace, Rupp ran 2:05:30 pace. (Net descent but the advantage is offset by climbs).

Questions:
A) How much does the hilly course, the warm weather and the lack of a dedicated pacer take out of them?
B) How much does the slow pacing help them?

My guess Rupp's performance is as difficult as a 2:06:xx performance on a cool and flat course.
Kirui's performance was like a 2:04:00 on a flat and cool course.

This would be a pretty average result for the first two runner at London or Berlin.

Rupp's performance is similar in difficulty to Ryan Halls 2008 2:06:17 London and to Halls 2:04:58 wind assisted Boston.

Lagat is probably the goat of modern American distance running. He has a range of performance (1500-5000). He has US records AND he gold medals.

Rupp has range (1500- marathon). Rupp has medals.
But to equal Lagat, Rupp needs to win a major marathon.

To surpass Lagat, Rupp would need to break a world record.

Rupp will probably win a major marathon eventually. He is probably capable of a 2:04 high (if all goes perfectly) and he is consistently "in the mix".

Rupp will probably not set a world record, however. (That seems to be one level beyond him.)

They do it by focusing so much on their sprint/kick.

Championship races are run much differently than time trial races in which there are pacers and such to keep the pack moving through checkpoints.

Championship racing has been dominated by the sit-and-kick in the last years and no one has done it as effectively as Mo (and Galen has done it well, too).

 
"With a world record you know at that moment you have beaten everyone else who has ever run your distance, and you are the best there has ever been"

Best on that course under those conditions on that day. Also, you can set a world record eating hot dogs. Yeah, Joey Chestnut.

Can you give me an example of a 1500m Olympic Final where there was a fluke and one of the best coming in didn't win? Winning Olympic gold trumps world record every time. Sure, running a world record is an amazing feat. But Jan's long distance WR or Lionels Ironman WR, for them its great marketing and but they both know... until you win Kona or the olympics, you don't earn the title "worlds best" IMO

Rupp, drugs or not is already putting his name as one of the best marathoners regardless of times. Being a medalist at the olympics and now Boston confirms he's legit. Is Ryan Hall a better marathoner than Rupp because he ran a netdown hill 2:03 but no olympic medal?

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Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching

I'm not sure what you mean by "fluke" and technically everybody there is "one of the best" but Fermin Cacho had no business winning the 1500 gold in 1992. He benefited from an embarassingly slow pace at the beginning. I seem to recall they were actually being booed because they ran the opening part so slowly

And Matt Centrowitz can thank his 2016 win the a similarly slow early pace. Was he good? Certainly. Would he still have medaled? Quite possibly. But he only had the 21st fastest 1500 m time of the year. He won the lottery with that early pace. It was made for him.

Not to mention the 1996 final in which El G fell early and could never contend though he was picked by most to win. However, at least that case at least one of the greatest of all time (Morceli) still did so it passes your test. But it does go to show how anything can happen.



No argument here, regardless of what I said above. In fact, I think what I said above outlines it.

For all we've heard about a WR being "beaten everyone who has ever shown up", the fact is you if you don't get a WR one day, you can come always back and try again and again. You get many chances. But if you are not ready on day of the one-and-only Olympic final, you never get another chance. Sure you might be able to come back to another Olympics, but the guy who won that day will always be the Olympic Gold Medalist for that year. Forever.

That's what makes greatness. Performing when you must. No excuses. No second chances.

I am thinking primarily of track. And ignoring the slight advantages today's surfaces might have over the ones of the last thirty years (same with shoes), that is the beauty of it - it is a really good comparison of the WR holder against every single person in the event before him or her.

I am not talking about world records in things like triathlon, or possibly even the marathon.

You have noted a number of the 1500m Olympic races that I was thinking of.

As for being the best on the day - I totally agree, that is an amazing feat.

I just prefer the idea of indisputably being the best. I mean who would you rather be Cacho or El Guerrouj (without his 1500m gold medal)?

If El G were just a guy who ran the WR one day and then otherwise was a mere mortal, then I would rather be Cacho. Slow early pace or not, he beat everyone when it counted.

But El G was so dominant, had multiple World records and won not only 1500m Olympic Gold but also Olympic 5000 m gold, calmly sailing away from the 5000m world record holder in the process.

How about this. Fernando Mamede set the 10,000 m WR weeks before the 1984 LA Olympics. He did it with ease, beating his teammate, Carlos Lopes. Yet at the Olympics, Lopes won Olympic Marathon Gold even after losing two weeks after being hit by a car. Meanwhile Mamede dropped out in the middle of a pedestrian 10000 M heat, because he was a notorious basket case who simply could not handle pressure.

Who do you think Mamede would rather be? Himself or Lopes? He was still the 10000 m world record holder but who remembers him today?

The Americans did a great job, from Jordan to Galen and in seeing all those in the top 10...good show for sure. There is a guy who may be joining America's best given his trajectory the past 2 years you haven't heard of in marathon. He may be one of the next front US marathon stars & I am anticipating he will not disappoint. A few years from now, look back on this thread and this post, because you heard it here...Noah Droddy. He is stepping up to try the marathon. An American female you should watch out for is Alia Gray--10th in the Trials (marathon). Both are part of the Roots Running Project & gaining a lot of steam. I wish them the best of luck & adding to the strength of the American distance scene.

Glad for all the Americans at Boston, even the weekend competitors. It's more misery than I am willing to participate in at this time for sure!

You have picked an excellent example. Even I have to admit I would not choose to be the hapless Mamede! To be that fast and have No wins of significance is quite something.

Fermín Cacho was no fluke:

Olympic Games
1992 Barcelona1500 m
1996 Atlanta1500 m

World Championships
1993 Stuttgart1500 m
1997 Athens1500 m

World Indoor Championships
1991 Seville1500 m

European Championships
1994 Helsinki1500 m
1998 Budapest1500 m

European Indoor Championships
1990 Glasgow1500 m

In marathon running there are usually two scenarios for very fast times:

-A star athlete attempts the world record and sets up a fiele for that purpose. His own rabbits from his own training group pace him and shelter and protect him for 20+ miles. He is vocal about his intention. Race organisers and sponsors are in the same boat and promot the race as something special.
Haile started with that in Berlin and made the whole thing about WR and fast times really interesting for the first time. Before it was just about winning and the time was merely a byproduct. Haile even made sure that certain opponents are not invited so that he could solely focus on himself and didn't need to care about racing.
Kipsang etc. adopted that approach to some extent. (And even Frodeno did it in Roth, although the astericks in Tri is multiple times higher.)

or

-fast times are achieved by fearless, young and not yet well known africana. They go out at a freakish pace and risk everything. A hundreds blow up but every once in a while someone clocks a really fast time. They are hungry and they are usually not Aline so groups Form and they push each other. But this is a very aggressive and not so sustainable way.
Sammy Wanjiaru had his breakthrough like that. And Mutai and Mosop raced Boston like that when they clocked 2:03. Maybe even Hall had a racing style like that.

Once Rupp has established himself as one of the besteht, scenario one is possible but unlikely. Scenario two is absolutely not Rupps or Salazars approach to racing.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Well we know that scenario 2 was Salazar's approach to his OWN training until, of course, he broke himself! But he did get three NYC wins and one Boston and in theory he held the Marathon world record for a short time achieved on the NYC course in 2:08.xx but it turned out that the NYRRC had measured the course 148 m short....kind of a bummer since NYC is such a hard course anyway.

Kirui looking seemingly unaffected today! Rupp and Osaka looking a bit stiff walking down the stairs.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

No, but he had no business winning that final

Absolutely. Salazar learned some lessons the hard way and he wants to prevent his athletes from making them. His approach is now very analytical and objective. When he coached himself it often was emotional, filled with anger, fear and obsession.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Lots of TUEs you can get for plantar fasciitis. I think he probably was at a 100%...