Do you know the Brits won't be in Yokohama or just assuming? What other countries do you expect to not be there. Just because isn't an auto qualifier doesn't mean athletes don't want to race the series. Race practice is still needed before Paris

Gwen’s swim was really good. It’s her transitions and the bike mount and acceleration after mounting where she lacked still.

https://www.britishtriathlon.org/britain/documents/gb-teams/selection-policies/2023-selection-policies/olympic/olympic-policy-02.02.2023/paris-2024-olympic-games---final.pdf
2.12 Phase 3 – June 2024 – additional [ie with Yee and Potter selected] individual event discretionary nominations:
a. Should quota places remain following completion of phases 1 and 2, there will be a
second selection meeting where additional eligible athletes will be nominated for
the Games if they are considered by the Panel to be a realistic individual medal
contender.
b. In making this decision, the Panel* will:
i. prioritise performances from an identified Olympic distance WTCS race
(to be confirmed as soon as possible following publication of the 2024
competition calendar [subsequently identified as Cagliari]);
ii. consider all the factors listed at 2.11(c) above [long list], as well as any other
performances from 2024 World Triathlon races.
* Selection Panel: Cavendish; Velati; and Cook
Women perspective; men different)
So while a performance in Yokohama (11 May) will be considered (ii above), Cagliari (25 May) is the "prioritised" race. Since this is only a fortnight later, it's reasonable to assume that the contenders will decide not to prejudice their performance by travelling and racing in Yokohama. They are: GTB #12, Waugh #6, Coldwell #5 and maybe one other (Mathias #59, if she gets on with the increased size of field) (am assuming Potter #1 will wish to race for 'experience', so that makes 5). They could sub Learmonth in for Mathias.
Ergo if BriTri sends athletes to Japan it'll be for experience being up front in a WTCS race (eg Mathias, Alden, Rainsley).
I guess most of the Germans and the French yet to qualify will also keep their powder dry (avoiding travel fatigue) for Cagliari.
https://triathlon.org/...qualification/female
I'm assuming Holland is now 'done' (sad for the Lieven bike-racking penalty leading to DQ) - if she wants further meaningful competition she needs to get the miles in on a TT bike and try to earn a Taupo slot before 30th June.

With Yoko and Caglari 2 weeks apart, you’d be stupid to go race both, especially with a few top countries having identified Cag as the last “showcase” event (not an AQ but close enough). This past year Sundurland was a “weak” Wtcs field by its proxy to Paris test event. It’s rare that races truly are “weak” in Wtcs but with the schedule it certainly has chances imo to have the top athletes skipping.

So if you suddenly are missing 3-5 front pack athleres that’s close to 1/3rd of the normal front pack fire power. And more importantly it’s key runners who sit it out, it only increases the chances for GJ to “run through the field” for an imo artificial placement. But again if she or anyone AQ’s, fair play, But if shes 4th 45s from T2 and you pick her thinking she will replicate that in Paris- that is where I don’t think will happen. But again there is an issue right now that no one else really deserves the spots either

Again if she is picked outside of Knibb and Spivey, I’d have no real issue. No one else at this point can do it at 10km off the bike, Rapp has the “potential” and I guess could do a Tokyo test event 2.0 replica. But if that doesn’t happen, then sure pick her but I wouldn’t use her on mtr, her swim and bike imo aren’t strong enough to have her 1.5km run make up for it in an A field.

But again if your picking GJ and basically having her ride solo from chase pack, you in a full field are basically acknowledging she is at best an Hail Mary attempt..

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I thought so too. She doesn’t have great ankle flexibility, sprinting in swimming is kick based and not being able to really point your toes is real hinderance to that. I don’t think she can fix that. I don’t know if she can fix her transitions though I think they went from bad to not good in the last few months (just based off this race) so maybe.

I went back and rewatched: GTB prevented Gwen from winning that race (she did nothing wrong, so I am clear). GTB ran on the outside of lane one on the final straight away and Gwen didn’t want to attempt the narrow pass going into the turn, Gwen decelerated LL accelerated shortly after and that was that.

This was a better more exciting race than anything super league has done. And way way better than the E games.

I think this format may find legs. You’ll never have a race cancelled due to weather. That is very much a concern and it is only going to get worse.

Watched that last 300m and thought 'these women have not raced many 800s and 1500s let alone any indoors; if they had, they'd have more track craft'. Maybe GTB raced some when a junior, but so many get sucked into 'just' triathlon and maybe 3000m plus track when still so young.

Yeah I more or less thought the same, much less on an indoor track which is even more strategic. The move by GTB was pretty self aware, though I think it may have just been her thinking about the sharp turn off the track.

I’m in favor of fast pace, and to me the bike was about 5 laps too much. Did we see both A finals the 1st person on the bike essentially soft pedal for 2 laps? Let’s make it all count, it even seemed like GJ got on because the gals stopped riding (went 3-4 wide) with like 5 laps to go and started to “strategize”. I’d have given ability for someone to truly go off the front and see if they can hold it. Not soft pedal knowing they’ll get caught.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Whilst I enjoyed this format, I like superleague and MTR better. The track did seem to allow for all the bikes to come together, bringing it down to a foot race. Though it did seem to be important to try and be at the front coming off the bike

and on top of it you can charge a reasonable entrance fee for such quality race

the swim should be more like 200 or 250 meter in my mind and the bike could be reduced a bit so you can actually really attack from the start of the bike.
anyway i watched the 2022 race and thought it was great and yesterday was next level.
another thing i thing they should have some spaces for fastest non qualifier winock and especially edgar deserved a place in the A final while semi finale 2 was a bit soft .

the swim should be more like 200 or 250 meter in my mind and the bike could be reduced a bit so you can actually really attack from the start of the bike. //




If you lengthened the swim to 250, you would not have to shorten the bike to make it more valuable. The gaps starting the ride would be another 5 to 10 seconds, and that is all you would need to have folks ride more aggressively from the gun, and then continue it to hold gaps. 150 is just way to short for any real separation, but like in the arena games you can see that extra 50 really spreads it out..


And for a few lucky swimmers they actually got to draft. If you got someone in your lane that was a body length ahead of you, I saw several slide over and take advantage, then move center for the turn, and then back. Gwen was one of those, but I think she just had a hard time not swimming in the center of the lane it appeared.

To me this is way more "are you not entertained" that somehow gets as much race points as actual "real" triathlon? Arena Games and this type of racing is far more "entertaining" without that much actual racing going on imo. But because everyone is all together and the final laps are "sprinted" it's suddenly great value from a viewer standpoint.

ETA: I certainly think it can create the best distances for each event I just think with this particular distance it's far more for "entertainment", than it is to actually create the best "racing". I mean this is pretty much only capable to be pulled off at what 3 venues in all of the world. So I think they are sorta limited by what they have as a resource, while Arena Games can be done at pretty much any aquatic facility. So I think these are certainly the best "value" events out there, I just think you have to pick the right distances + venue to actual create the best racing overall.

If you extend the swim anymore, you'll end up with lap out issues and/or safety issue of flying mount while trying not to get lapped and then a big crash pile up. Whoever allowed this and Arena Games into the circuit sure has to be smiling with excitement. So I guess I'll go back to, when the F are we just going to get off the OD as the olympic format, and go to shorer racing. Just rip that bandaid off finally.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Well the B final had that strategy and it almost worked. I think if this format takes off you’ll see that successfully pulled off.

And it might have worked but I think an official pointed her in the wrong direction! Go to 2:53:50 in the broadcast, is that guy pointing for her to turn in?

I was under the impression the German policy goes now by ranking which could mean they racing every opportunity avaliable. Anyone not wanr8ng to put their eggs in one basket will be looking to showcase performances everywhere possible.

it takes about 16 seconds a lap on the bike so if you are lets say 13 sec behind at t1 exit you are taken out . ie the same itu principle you get taken out of the race before you get lapped .

and as somebody mentioned earlier this is nothing new those races happened in france in the 90 s

so i guess there will be more people that say, why did it take so long to become a world cup race .

yes but germany has already given 5 slots to athletes so there is only 2 atheltes fighting for last available male slot.
so priester and schonburg will most likely be in yokahama

Right so they can shorten the swim to keep more athletes in the race. They know the paces they swim and bike, they arent going to want 1 super swimmer to lap out half the field in each race. Again this is far more “entertaining” imo, much like arena games. Which I think we got.

I just laugh that these “contrived” events now get equal points as it’s outdoor counterparts. I think they have a great spot in our sport, I’m just not much one for putting them on equal with other events that are closer to what the Olympics are still currently. Sitting up on the bike isn’t even an strategy in mtr these days to let more catch up,

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I agree on the principle, but if you think about it… who would have a problem with the fact that this race carried World Cup points?

Certainly not the fans.

The athletes? Those with a shot at doing well in the 2-hour individual Olympic race will be good enough in the 9-minute races (as GTB showed). It’s not like the WTCS circuit is raced in this format. So it’s a small laugh. A Katie Zaferes-sized laugh maybe (I’m a big fan btw).

And I understand why World Triathlon want to incentivize athletes to race these new formats. If they don’t, we’ll never get rid of the Olympic snooze fest.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

These “exhibition” races have a direct impact on rankings. Look at the US. We have an athlete who’s never finished top 30 in a single Wtcs race but has been able to use arena games to “game” her ranking. It has worked out in the end where that athlete can’t race Yoko now (thankfully).

I think these are great events. The whole reason why they have to add these points is to legitimize the event or else no one would show up.

Sometimes not every event has to mean something but I get it, No one broadcasts to a world audience the FGP series and those have routinely world class athletes racing.

I’m just not much a fan of “gimmicky” and then try and legitimize that with a pints race. If you want this to be on the own fantastic. Having 10 people on what the outside 3 lanes of the track was basically going to never allow the bike to materialize really. And that final turn into the finishing stretch, I thought it looked like a few def jumped over the cone to narrate it going around it. But that hard angle almost required that move.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Many athletes actually, there are always athletes that do well at these gimmicky events who aren't even capable of a world cup midfield but manage to win points to put them ahead of other solid athletes.

Gwen´s performance leaves some doubts. Her swim is good enough (we have to also consider they could not draft and this was a very short distance). Her run is there, but her bike strenght is worrisome: She spent most of the bike leg hanging 5-10 meters behind the draft and wasting energy. I remind also the race in Pontevedra where she blew up during the uphill... I would like to see her in Paris but in the mixed relay, she would have some trouble to stay within a group in the bike leg. I also think her transitions are too slow....
In the individual race, considering Knibb will not be behind her, will she have any chance if she misses her wheel (we saw that some girls had serious trouble, like Seregni and some others)???
By the way, I am 99% that UK will send Potter, GTB and Waugh (Coldwell likely to be reserve)

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

It would have been interesting to get a MTR distance swim and see how that would have transpired with lap out very much in play in that scenario. Now of course the 150m swim makes a ton of sense when you consider they are biking 16s-19s for a 200m bike lap, so no duh the organizers can't have a less than full final because everyone was lapped out in prior heats, etc. But it's interesting what the narrative would have been then? The bike distance would almost be irrelevant as the 1st few laps would be basically the point where the majority of slower swimmers/transitions would have been lapped out, if you made it to likely 1km, you likely would have been safe by just basically holding serve on the speed. It would have been the 1st few laps of the bike where the swimmer would have been able to do the most damage.

Better viewing, worst viewing? "Tired of the swimmer" affecting the race so much?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I agree on Arena games.

But this race? Hmm. I feel like if you looked at the results only and didn't know the format, you wouldn't think anything was different. The best athletes finished at the top. I'd compare this race to Kitzbuhel. It's different but totally legitimate.

A race like this could be held at my swim club's facility and many others, you'd just have to use the parking lot. Heck it would be awesome to have it at UT Austin. You have to bike 400 M to the indoor track, but that would be awesome. I'm sure a lot of Universities all over the world could accommodate it, actually.