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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Since the beginning of the year, Lionel's plan has been to be at his peak in October at Kona. We are well aware that its a long year, and he needs to have some blocks of hard training, some easier recovery work and some key races as part of that preparation. Lionel was doing equally hard work last Feb & March and was in great shape in Sept (his 4th at 70.3 Worlds) and Nov (his win at Ironman Florida). As a young guy, we are still learning about his body, but I can tell you that he has recovered faster than any athlete I have ever seen in 30+ years and his passion and enjoyment is working hard and preparing properly for a limited number of races. We had looked at Dubai, but in a year where we wanted to go slowly and build towards Kona, we decided to stay in North America and start in Oceanside in 3 weeks. With lmited travel experience and a need to continue improving his swim, we decided that being closer to home was wisest. Finally, much has been said about Lionel not doing mega swim workouts this winter. He tried that in the past and it did not seem to work for his physiology and skill acquistion. Less swimming, more focus on better technique seems to be helping him improve (as he just did a life time PB by 30 seconds with that format).

I would say the biggest thing we are observing (and is likely obvious to most elite coaches) is that great athletes are very unique and they all don't need to do the exact same training program. Lionel is not going to be a lead pack swimmer in 2015. We are not being negative, we are simply being realistic. He is improving, everyday looking more like a swimmer, but swimming is a very technical event and "just trying" harder doesn't mean swimming faster. His progressions in the water will be modest and consistent, and that means we know he will have a time deficit to make up, coming out of the water in most of the key races.

The nice thing, is that if races truly execute fair and consistent draft marshaling, Lionel is more than capable of having some of the most impressive bike and run splits in any of the races he enters. Mt Lemmon was a great gift to Lionel. He loves the mountain, and gains energy from being on it. Some people have a favourite trail they run on, some a great lake they love to swim or paddle. For Lionel Mt Lemmon is an inspiring few hours. For those who have never had the luxury of being on the mountain, you need to make a road-trip to Tucson. It is a truly amazing road, where every few miles the images, climate and visuals change.

I think any athlete that raises positive, conversations about Triathlon is a great addition to the endurance family. Lionel is just a baby in race years, who will gain a lot of wisdom in the next few years. While I am sure we collectively won't do everything proper this year, the most important thing is he is loving the training and new life, inspiring many people around him, and adding to the interest in the sport. None of those are a bad thing.
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [Jordano] [ In reply to ]
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Jordano wrote:
Got that right, 5.5 w/kg isn't getting you in the same zip code as the pro tour without baller anaerobic ability, skills and/or a weight of 80kg. Although LS might fair well at pro bike racing overall because of his durability under load, that is something I envy when thinking about racing 60+ days this year.

Yeah to compare to someone like Wiggins in a 40km TT I would say LS is down 40-60 watts of power and another 20-40 of aero. Nearly the same if we are talking about competing with Tuft at the Canadian champs. Not even close.

He he should stick to hunting the best in the world in tri I think.

I don't even really care what the w/kg is. All that matters is that he is a man that can run, run very fast, and he rode up Mt Lemmon in 1:34. That is super legit. Legit enough for me to think there is no way I would bet on anyone else to win Kona.


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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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coachbarrie wrote:
Finally, much has been said about Lionel not doing mega swim workouts this winter. He tried that in the past and it did not seem to work for his physiology and skill acquistion. Less swimming, more focus on better technique seems to be helping him improve (as he just did a life time PB by 30 seconds with that format).

I would say the biggest thing we are observing (and is likely obvious to most elite coaches) is that great athletes are very unique and they all don't need to do the exact same training program. Lionel is not going to be a lead pack swimmer in 2015. We are not being negative, we are simply being realistic. He is improving, everyday looking more like a swimmer, but swimming is a very technical event and "just trying" harder doesn't mean swimming faster.

My experience swimming with average Joes to World record holders (that should be singular, only ever trained with one) is that there is universality in "swimming harder" is the only thing that works and that less swimming more focus almost never works. I am reminded what I heard at UT swimming camp in 1988, in the debate between quality and quantity the obvious choice is both. I also think that to the that skill acquisition should never be expected if the swimming is performed at the end of the day in a fatigued state.

So I will be interested to see what happens...
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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"Legit enough for me to think there is no way I would bet on anyone else to win Kona. "

How does he handle the heat?
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]
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Both Lionel and Barrie will be joining me tomorrow (Tuesday) night for a presentation and Q & A at TriSports. If you are not lucky enough to be in the Tucson area, and have a question you would like us to ask Lionel, just lmk here. We'll report back after. If you are in the Tucson area, visit https://www.facebook.com/events/395629417283276 for more info, and come & join us. BTW, spent a good amount of time with Lionel last year ... really good guy, humble but very confident, and off the charts focused. Nice to have Barrie in his corner, too ... big-time.
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [Trirunner] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Time will tell, then.
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [Trirunner] [ In reply to ]
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As excited as I am about Lionel's 2015 race season, by no stretch do we believe he is anyway a favouite in any of the major races. In my mind, you have to do the work (he is clearly doing that). You have to have the willpower (he has that in spades). You have to be talented enough (he is). You have to get lucky (we don't find out that until the race is over). Lastly, you have to actually execute the plan and have an A, B and C option in case of not being lucky. Until Lionel wins a big race, against the best guys, he is merely a great kid with some big potential. Over 30+ years, we have all seen incredible athletes who didn't execute and win.

Lionel and I both know that never in history has there been more world-class swim-bike-runners in the men's field. As excited as numerous PRO-SANDERS people are (and we appreciate their support) until Lionel actually executes his poential and wins, he is another of 8-10 great men who want to hold the title of greatest Long Distance Triathlete on the Planet. With a little "luck", 2015 has the makngs of one of the greatest years ever for Long Distance Racing.
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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It seems like you both have a great outlook. Good luck for the coming year!
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Heres a great blog for a guy who got on a bike 4 years ago and is now winning in Europe last week at pro continental race in Portugal and 5th at world tour - tour of Algrave queen stage 2 weeks ago.

https://rustywoods.wordpress.com

For others on thread suggesting Sanders go bike racing.....read Mikes blog above. A hilarious depiction of what a trule shit show bike racing is. Concussions, food poisoning, cash payments to dopers, crashes....all for $5/hr (or less depending on napkin math!!) I love bike racing but seriously, what dysfunction. Yet Mike is getting there in very short order

Lionel is doing what he loves. Don't we all wish we could?

@rhyspencer
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a coach but an unfit mostly retired duathlete. I just ask myself why in winter training would anybody be worried about chasing times up a hill?
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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newManUK wrote:
I'm not a coach but an unfit mostly retired duathlete. I just ask myself why in winter training would anybody be worried about chasing times up a hill?

Motivation?
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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he a professional athletes....it s a daily occurance to shot for the moon, it s normal to mesure everything, track.

he is doing some very solid work.....the climb is just part of the training program.... not a focus in itself.

and he isnt worrie about chaing time up that hill.....he is in his happy place when he ride there...... that s is training ground where he can suffer and get the work done preparing for the season....

Best of luck Lionel

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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newManUK wrote:
I'm not a coach but an unfit mostly retired duathlete. I just ask myself why in winter training would anybody be worried about chasing times up a hill?

Well in order to improve your performance you need to develop the aerobic system as much as possible.

One way to do this is ride your bike.

He rode his bike.

People have really weird ideas about 'winter'



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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I just want to thank you for these insights! You and Lionel seem like awesome people, and I'll be rooting as hard as I can as you guys journey through the adventures ahead.

------
David Roche
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I've noticed this season, in bike racing, a lot of the people training 'too hard' this winter have won a lot of races already.

Gold.
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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Great write up Barrie. Thanks! You forgot the most important part...he is CANADIAN!!!! ;)

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Adrian in Vancouver
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]
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BTW, just as an aside KPM and QOM up Mt. Lemmon owned by Canadians!!!!!!

In fact, 2nd overall woman also from Canada

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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [cervelo-van] [ In reply to ]
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2nd male is also from the North! Michaels Woods, who was a spectacular runner, turned pro cyclist.

For good measure, Tom Danielson gets to mi 20.5 in 1:10 where Sanders does 1:19. Tom is arguably one of the best, if not the best, climbers in the world. If there was a 30mi climb @ 8%, with no approach to the mtn, Tom could beat everyone in the world on a good day.

Again....the real deal!

PT
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]
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paulthomas wrote:
Tom is arguably one of the best, if not the best, climbers in the world.

PT

Uh, no. Not even close and not even when he was on the juice.

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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]
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So Tom D, if we equalize for weight, has about 60 watts on LSanders.


paulthomas wrote:
2nd male is also from the North! Michaels Woods, who was a spectacular runner, turned pro cyclist.

For good measure, Tom Danielson gets to mi 20.5 in 1:10 where Sanders does 1:19. Tom is arguably one of the best, if not the best, climbers in the world. If there was a 30mi climb @ 8%, with no approach to the mtn, Tom could beat everyone in the world on a good day.

Again....the real deal!

PT



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
newManUK wrote:
I'm not a coach but an unfit mostly retired duathlete. I just ask myself why in winter training would anybody be worried about chasing times up a hill?

Well in order to improve your performance you need to develop the aerobic system as much as possible.

One way to do this is ride your bike.

He rode his bike.

People have really weird ideas about 'winter'

This.

SInce when is riding hard a bad thing?

"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [thirstygreek] [ In reply to ]
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I suspect that if LS took all the time he's "wasting" swimming and running and just rode his bike, dropped 2-3lbs of upper body mass, he could hit very impressive numbers indeed. You can't fairly compare triathletes to cyclists because because of that.

It's like taking a top cyclist and wondering why he can't run a 2:30 marathon. There's a matter of specificity that can take years to develop.


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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
newManUK wrote:
I'm not a coach but an unfit mostly retired duathlete. I just ask myself why in winter training would anybody be worried about chasing times up a hill?


Well in order to improve your performance you need to develop the aerobic system as much as possible.

One way to do this is ride your bike.

He rode his bike.

People have really weird ideas about 'winter'

Some folks think that preseason training is months of long slow distance. Possibly for cyclists since their race involves lots of sprinting, attacking, intervals, etc. A large aerobic base followed by specific intervals and tempo work make sense.

For long course triathletes, their races are longer sustained efforts, so doing a 90 minute ride at maybe 95%, is a solid work in off season. Go out and ride at lot, some of it very hard. Some of it easy for recovery. Have more structure as you get closer to your event and make that work more specific to your race.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Lionel Sanders is the real deal [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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I think you forgot to read the part about not having an approach to a climb. If you have any ability to ask any of TD's contemporaries, they will tell you the same thing. Unfortunately......there are no races for the pros that is an exclusive climb. My bet is not more that 5 people on the planet could beat Tom up Haleakala.
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