No idea how the two compare there, currently.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Although, you'd have to admit that popping out a 2:20 bike could at least put you in position for a Kona podium, no matter how crappy your swim or run went.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I asked him yesterday afterward - ran into him having lunch post ride - why not try for the Olympics. When he gave me an answer I completely understood. He just loves long course racing. Sport at the highest level is brutal and you absolutely have to long the sport in order to succeed. It was instantly clear he loved long-course triathlon.

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Lionel doesn't even start rocking till the 3rd hour, so ITU racing, is not inline with either his physiology OR his mentality. He has trained with many of my top young ITU athletes and he admires the skills they have the type of racing and training they do. He simply loves to hurt for as long as possible and to try to wear his competition down over a mental battle, versus a speed to the finishing line battle of ITU. I am both of these races regularly and love them both. Each has a unique set of skills and fitness they require to exceed. So far only a handful of people like Daniela, Nicola, Jan, Javier, Tim and Brent McMahon have really been able to do both at a very high level. The 70.3 and Ironman offer up enough of a challenge right now for Lionel to master.

FTP / CP / MLSS / CP60 whatever you want to call it....

5+ w/kg would be reasonably good at pro level (doubt it's that low)
5.4+ w/kg would be very impressive doubt more than a few peeps can crack that
5.6+ w/kg would be seriously impressive....

IMHO....probably in region of 5.4 based on back of envelope calculations.

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

ericM40-44,

The reason why I call him the real deal is the same why I would call you the real deal if you came to Tucson and did the same effort.....Regardless if you can't run and swim like this kid, I would still call you the real deal on the bike. I think I can ride pretty damn good, and I could not have ridden his wheel up the mtn. Lots of bad mother fuckers have come through tucson that can not ride what he did. There is so much meat left on the bone for this kid, his room for improvoment is huge. Take a peek at his po dunk races in his career so for......Frost your Fanny 5k....Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer Ride and Tie......he has had virtually no exposure to greatness.

You can rain on the parade here, but remember that I would be saying the same thing about you if you rode like he did up Lemmon. I love giving credit, when it is due!

PT

PS. Neither of the Brownlees were chasing the million dollars last week......they are also the real deal!

There are many wiser people of bike wattages and capacity. So I am not able to discuss these details inteligently. BUT, I sat at supper last night in Tucson with an internationally recognized pro bike coach who lives in Tucson. He has been here for camps for 30 years and has coached Tour riders and Olympic medalists. He has also produced World Champions. So I think he likely has forgotten more than I could ever learn. He sat next to Lionel at supper and he quized Lionel on many topics. It was a truly entertaining supper and one I wont quickly forget. He told Lionel, that in early March, his top pros over the years rode to WIndy Point in roughly 53min. This is the 14 mile mark of Mt Lemmon (on road bikes). He was very impressed that such an inexperienced rider so early in the year, on only his second ride outside on a brand-new bike could ride that time (and then keep going to the top of the Ski Hill at such a fast pace). He was clear that the top elite guys would be faster later in the year, but for March 1st, it was a legitimate bike time. I can tell you that watching Lionel from behind for 91 minutes, its clear that he is VERY GREEN and will only get faster by simply holding better lines, and cornering more effectively. With great riders like Gord Fraser, Paul Thomas and many others to perhaps help with helping improve Lionel's biking skills, he will only become a more complete endurance athlete.

As an aside, we are planning on riding the Ontario Time Trial Championships on May 30th for a fun, learning experience.

There is also a lot more to being a good bike racer than just being really strong on a bike. First, you have to be strong in specific ways that can help you win a bike race, but also tactics, technical skills, and personality matter a lot in racing bikes.

I'm not saying Lionel Sanders lacks these skills, but I think it's a frequent misunderstanding to assume that because someone has a high FTP or puts down fast bike splits, they could easily transition to pro cycling. I don't pretend to be an expert triathlete or cyclist, but in my limited experience in both, I've found them to be very different sports.

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http://snappletriteam.com/

oooh nice! how about TT nats in June too :-)

Nobody is going to give you spank bank material

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Internet User

100% he should. If he wins, he should be able to race in the Maple Leaf at Kona.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Everyone who spends time with LS reports that he is a great guy, humble, hard working and genuinely nice. I really like to hear that. Sometimes being "nice" is, I don't know, unappreciated. I am rooting for him for certain.

That said, enough of the LS love fest! How is going to improve his swim if he is swimming 1 out of 3 days and that 1 swim is sandwiched between some heavy biking and running. I know this is only a glimpse of his training, but it reads a lot like the glimpses we saw last fall on youtube. Do something on the bike that is jaw-dropping, follow it up with an extraordinary run, oh and then get in a swim at night.

Maybe he can achieve his goals with a 56XX swim but I doubt it. The Oro Valley pool opens at 5 AM, I would love to read about the epic set of 100's that was done before most people had their fist cup of coffee...

Male and female winners at Kona last year are not exactly known for being great swimmers.

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Alex Arman

Strava

Sure they are
He did 348 watts for 1:38
he is around 165lbs
Knowing that 1 hour to 1.5 hour power is fairly constant among people, it would imply a 1 hour power of around EDIT: 385 watts at best

This puts him at around 5.1 w/kg, which would be low level domestic pro.

So yeah I think he if didn't swim and bike and bumped it up to 5.5 or so, massssybe he can be a world tour domestique (skills allowing)

Which IS impressive, but sometimes we get carried away on here and imagine our triathlete uber bikers could give Wiggo a run for his money.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

 
if he beats tuft i'll buy you a car.

In comparison to Keinle: there is a big difference between being a second tier swimmer and doing a significant amount of the race by yourself. 56 minutes he should be fine, 57, maybe, 58 and hmmm long day...

no rain on no parades. I would disagree with the construct of your argument that because I made the comments I made, that I'm selling short on LS. Quite the contrary, I'm a fan, and I think he's impressive.

I did the Mt. Lemmon climb once... made the selection at the Saturday Worlds or whatever they call it. We eventually got dropped by an old man on a steel round-tubed bike with shifters on down tubes. He was wearing really old Ray Ban sunglasses and natty kit.

Next, I would also disagree, nay laugh, that you would put LS in the same zip code as AB, but whatever. I thought it was a pertinent question though... why Mt. Lemmon instead of Dubai?

As others have said: he's awesome, so enough of the love fest. We're all rooting for him. If he truly is the real deal as you say, he doesn't need it, he will learn to swim, and the titles will come.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Impressive.

Bagging Strava KOM's and being a training hero is different than showing up and winning on race day though.

Leave something for your races Lionel!

Just an arm chair guess I don't know him, but I think that his "team" (coaches advisors etc) might be trying to control his work a bit. He seams like a great guy and all that, but perhaps his work ethic might work against him in certain situations, IE being world class ready in February. Still a young athlete with lots to learn. In terms of training he might need a bit more "leash than whip" and setting up peak form (or close) in Feb might not be the best idea for this athletes personality.

Like I say, don't know him. Just arm chair QBing a bit like all the other LS threads.

Maurice

I've noticed this season, in bike racing, a lot of the people training 'too hard' this winter have won a lot of races already.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Not talking physiology, but personality within the context of physiology, training load and work ethic. This guy has a really big shovel, capable of digging a really big hole. I would say he's taking the long view, stay on course, work on swimming go to Tucson for some fun training and work, but low pressure situations.

Maurice

you make good points. If it were me, and I was in world beating shape in February, I'd go attempt to beat the world in Dubai, and perhaps get lucky and have as shot at $1M bucks.

But a controlled roll-out is a good plan... focus on the important things. Qualify for Kona. Excite the triathlon world (and perhaps inspire the athlete) with a great performance at Roth. Rest, consolidate fitness, and make a run at Kona, the pinnacle of our sport.

It's going to be a fun summer!

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

These are campfire or fishing #'s ONLY REAL. I could be by a campfire right now and listen to you guys break down the #'s, Watts/kilo etc. Seeing the way he trains and watching his progress is like watching someone get accepted into a college then graduate. I dig how he trains in a bedroom and puts out these #'s. Unreal. Excited to watch his career..

There was a legitimate reason he didn't make it over to Dubai, but he said looking back he would have really struggled in the swim conditions over there

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Got that right, 5.5 w/kg isn't getting you in the same zip code as the pro tour without baller anaerobic ability, skills and/or a weight of 80kg. Although LS might fair well at pro bike racing overall because of his durability under load, that is something I envy when thinking about racing 60+ days this year.

Yeah to compare to someone like Wiggins in a 40km TT I would say LS is down 40-60 watts of power and another 20-40 of aero. Nearly the same if we are talking about competing with Tuft at the Canadian champs. Not even close.

He he should stick to hunting the best in the world in tri I think.

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