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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [messien] [ In reply to ]
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messien wrote:
Well okay I managed to dig out some footage of Mola and Brownlee debating this after the finish.

https://vid.me/2u70

Alistair says that he was swimming in front of Mola, who he says was continuously hitting him and he also denies purposefully removing his cap. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

If it's true the Spanish federation are still appealing the result then that's salty AF.

Not sure what the Spanish federation are attempting to achieve here. Yes, if they get JB DQ'd then Alarza gets 2nd in the series so it's fair enough for them to want to push that I guess, but the AB swim cap thing - when Mola won the world championship - just makes them look like they're mad what AB did at the finish is getting so much attention and their guy isn't getting any. Why not say something immediately after the race rather than waiting for that video of the finish to go viral all over the world? Makes them look really petty and bitter (unless of course AB did do it intentionally, which I doubt - if he was racing as a domestique he's not going to risk getting himself DQ'd)
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [r0bh] [ In reply to ]
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This Mola and has his hat story is very odd!

It is an objective issue - did he and Alistair collide - so hopefully we can discuss it without getting too emotionally involved in it. But I've just come back from work and realised that I still have the race recorded.

As I said early, Alistair is position 4, next to Alarza. If it was being alleged that Alarza and Alistair were involved in a tussle, that would be entirely credible!

If you look at the pictures at about 10 seconds, you can see there is quite a fight going on in the water, and I think I can see Mola (with his hat on). But at that point, after 10 seconds, I cannot see how he or Alistair could possible have been next to each other, not least when there was Alarza, Royal, Perrera, Bailey, Raphael and others in between.

The first head on shot shows a group of four on the left, and that is surely the two Brownlees, Schoeman and Blummentfelt.

I think I can see the Brownlees moving across towards Raphael. And after 45 seconds, we have Raphael in the lead, Jonny behind him, and then Alistair with Perrera to Alistair's left.

So I just can't see how Mola could have reached Alistair to have a fight!

Perhaps Mola had the start of his life, latched onto Raphael's feet and that somehow, the collision happened then. Did anyone see Mola in the top 10?

Eventually, Jonny takes the lead with Raphael first. After I think the second buoy, Alistair in third loses HIS hat and he then swaps with Jonny at the front (which positively identifies Alistair, so we can track his path backwards if anyone wants to have a go!). Raphael eventually retakes the lead with Alistair in second and Jonny third ... and Mola 21 places back.

Every race the Brownlees do, they overtake the field on the outside and it seems totally weird that Alistair would be swimming to his left, which is the only way he could have met Mola.

I await those wiser than myself to clear up this mystery!
Last edited by: FeketeBlob: Sep 20, 16 9:16
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [ In reply to ]
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Just watched the race, as I've been away.

I cannot comprehend how someone can push themselves that hard before needing to stop, it's astonishing.

It's a shame Schoeman is getting so much flack, he was very humble in his interview.

Murray on the other hand, with this and the middle finger episode, is letting himself down.

I read that Mola was disappointed that the main stream media are focusing on the Brownlee brothers, rather than his win - but in reality, if JB/AB had not happened, no one would talk about it anyway (outside triathlon media). Still, imho he's a deserving winner.

The swim cap thing is bizarre - they're not near each other.

Anway, series is a really good watch, far better than the monotony of IM.
Last edited by: bluefever: Sep 20, 16 9:56
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [FeketeBlob] [ In reply to ]
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Just watched it again myself, a few seconds after the start someone - which could be Mola - almost stops and then swims hard across to the right i.e. towards the Brownlees. Then after 30-35 seconds the group of 4 on swimmers right come across to the left and there might be a coming together with the other pack - but unfortunately this is obscured by ITUs weather report graphic! Once the graphic has gone everything has sorted itself out.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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Because we have been banging on about Jonny's collapse, we haven't really talked a lot about the race.

For me (and apologies to Spanish readers here) I was disappointed with Mola. Turning to the women's race, while I don't think Flora Duffy is the best triathlete in the world, I think she put on a champion's performance, and even if Gwen had caught her, it was great to see her really put in such a passionate gutsy performance. She totally deserves to be remembered as a world champion and I also think Gwen was very graceful post-race too. Brilliant stuff all round.

Mola, by contrast, was in the driving seat and yet when the break went, I didn't see him make a single pull at the front. Interestingly, I don't think Murray did either. It was clear that the championship was slipping away from him and you feel he should have buried himself to close the gap. But he was curiously passive.

On the run, he set off well but again, he didn't really flog himself and was content to run in a pack of lesser runners. In the end, fortune favoured him and Jonny collapsed but I don't believe he had calculated for that. He seemed to have given up, in truth.. So yes, Mola is the world champion but this was not a champion's performance (contrast him with Javier in 2013 for example.) And now we have this peculiar accusation about his hat that I think takes further shine off his title.

I hadn't realised Schoeman was getting any flack. Of course, he didn't stop and I don't imagine he fully realised what had happened. Zero problem with that. And he was magnanimous afterwards, a true gent and I for one will be supporting him next year. Murray just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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bluefever wrote:

I read that Mola was disappointed that the main stream media are focusing on the Brownlee brothers, rather than his win
Curious as to where you read that, could you link me please?
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [messien] [ In reply to ]
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messien wrote:
bluefever wrote:

I read that Mola was disappointed that the main stream media are focusing on the Brownlee brothers, rather than his win
Curious as to where you read that, could you link me please?

For some reason the link is not copying from Twitter.

There is an article on the UK Daily Telegraph website, if you search Brownlees and Dark Arts you'll find it
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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bluefever wrote:
messien wrote:
bluefever wrote:


I read that Mola was disappointed that the main stream media are focusing on the Brownlee brothers, rather than his win

Curious as to where you read that, could you link me please?


For some reason the link is not copying from Twitter.

There is an article on the UK Daily Telegraph website, if you search Brownlees and Dark Arts you'll find it

Here's the link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...y-champion-of-triat/

And the quote from it:

"Mola felt it was a shame that there was more coverage of Jonny Brownlee having wilted in the harsh conditions in Cozumel, Mexico, rather than the actual result."
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [FeketeBlob] [ In reply to ]
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FeketeBlob wrote:
Because we have been banging on about Jonny's collapse, we haven't really talked a lot about the race.

For me (and apologies to Spanish readers here) I was disappointed with Mola. Turning to the women's race, while I don't think Flora Duffy is the best triathlete in the world, I think she put on a champion's performance, and even if Gwen had caught her, it was great to see her really put in such a passionate gutsy performance. She totally deserves to be remembered as a world champion and I also think Gwen was very graceful post-race too. Brilliant stuff all round.

Mola, by contrast, was in the driving seat and yet when the break went, I didn't see him make a single pull at the front. Interestingly, I don't think Murray did either. It was clear that the championship was slipping away from him and you feel he should have buried himself to close the gap. But he was curiously passive.

On the run, he set off well but again, he didn't really flog himself and was content to run in a pack of lesser runners. In the end, fortune favoured him and Jonny collapsed but I don't believe he had calculated for that. He seemed to have given up, in truth.. So yes, Mola is the world champion but this was not a champion's performance (contrast him with Javier in 2013 for example.) And now we have this peculiar accusation about his hat that I think takes further shine off his title.

I hadn't realised Schoeman was getting any flack. Of course, he didn't stop and I don't imagine he fully realised what had happened. Zero problem with that. And he was magnanimous afterwards, a true gent and I for one will be supporting him next year. Murray just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

i always find these monday morning quarterback statements bizarre. of the 57 minutes of the bike, how much did you actually see of the chase pack from your computer/iphone? 15 minutes? you have absolutely no idea what went on in the chase pack for over half the bike but you want to conclude that mola and murray did nothing! i definitely saw still pictures of murray in what looked like the lead and with mola directly behind him. sure, that may have been the 1 minute they did work but i also am in no position to make massive generalizations about who did what in the chase pack entirely based on what i got streamed. it would be a lot more persuasive if you got some quotes from others in the chase pack saying that it pissed them off because mola/murray refused to take any pulls.

regardless, mola's best chance of doing well is NOT to take huge pulls on the bike and then expect to catch the Bs on the run. that's not his strength. he obviously felt that his best shot was to avoid doing work on the bike and then try and run down the Bs with a fresher set of legs, which wound up being successful but only because of JB's collapse.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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So you're basically saying that the only way Mola can win is if other people pull him up to the Brownlees on the bike. That's weak and it means any success he does get is largely happenstance. That's why Alistair Brownlee will go down as an icon of the sport and he won't. It's also why he did so poorly at the Olympics. Mola is a fantastic runner of an easy bike, but that's all he is.

Even Jonny Brownlee has a vastly superior head to head with him - 26 to 8.
Last edited by: messien: Sep 20, 16 11:12
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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This....

Mola and Murray did turns at the front in the chase group for the majority of bike leg. Atleast in top 5 which I'm assuming was the rotation.

Murray quit after 5th lap and went into recovery mode (moved to last 5 of chase group). Mola stayed at front for one more lap and then shut it down to get ready for run.

If my splits were correct they only lost ~5s for the initial 6 laps, I think split started at 44s and was roughly 60s. By last 2 laps (when chase group shut it down) it ballooned to ~1:28. Regardless of the splits it looked like Murray shut it down at lap 5 and Mola at lap 6 (they rode side by side in back) getting ready for run.

But at same time even that split isn't that bad to running down all but B's, 99% of time. Schoeman's run ability to stay w B's was awesome and should cause some more worry for the guys missing front pack.

(I Watched at various spots on course mainly on backside near the marina and last 400m of course).

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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The Mola hat complaint is hilarious. He will be complaining Alistair nicked his lolly pop next. Alistair won Washington WS without goggles a few years back, it didn't impede his swim. What are his excuses for poor or very poor swims in the other 999 world series races? Mola is just not a good enough triathlete, in previous terminology he would be described as a wet runner and a bad looser. Mola won the world title by default, not merit and he knows it, just sour grapes I am afraid!
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [northern monkey] [ In reply to ]
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northern monkey wrote:
The Mola hat complaint is hilarious. He will be complaining Alistair nicked his lolly pop next. Alistair won Washington WS without goggles a few years back, it didn't impede his swim. What are his excuses for poor or very poor swims in the other 999 world series races? Mola is just not a good enough triathlete, in previous terminology he would be described as a wet runner and a bad looser. Mola won the world title by default, not merit and he knows it, just sour grapes I am afraid!

Mola may not be using it as an excuse but just pissed off it happened. If there was a time when they were near enough for it to happen I don't for a second think Brownlee couldn't have done it. Watch the London Grand final swim footage. (I think that was the race) the camera moves in quite close and you see Alistair swimming on the hip/shoulder of another competitor, in his stroke he places his hand, fingers splayed, on the head of the forward athlete and continues through with the pull of his stroke. This propels him forward and the unfortunate athlete is pushed down and back and is on Ali's hip at the end of that one stroke. Everyone is forgetting the competitive drive of the Brownlees, win at all costs. My god his brother was collapsing from heat exhaustion, an extremely dangerous and life threatening condition, his body was shutting itself down, going into protection mode, but Ali wanted him to end the series ahead of Mola enough to risk forcing him onwards irrelevant of the consequences.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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chrisb12 wrote:
northern monkey wrote:
The Mola hat complaint is hilarious. He will be complaining Alistair nicked his lolly pop next. Alistair won Washington WS without goggles a few years back, it didn't impede his swim. What are his excuses for poor or very poor swims in the other 999 world series races? Mola is just not a good enough triathlete, in previous terminology he would be described as a wet runner and a bad looser. Mola won the world title by default, not merit and he knows it, just sour grapes I am afraid!


Mola may not be using it as an excuse but just pissed off it happened. If there was a time when they were near enough for it to happen I don't for a second think Brownlee couldn't have done it. Watch the London Grand final swim footage. (I think that was the race) the camera moves in quite close and you see Alistair swimming on the hip/shoulder of another competitor, in his stroke he places his hand, fingers splayed, on the head of the forward athlete and continues through with the pull of his stroke. This propels him forward and the unfortunate athlete is pushed down and back and is on Ali's hip at the end of that one stroke. Everyone is forgetting the competitive drive of the Brownlees, win at all costs. My god his brother was collapsing from heat exhaustion, an extremely dangerous and life threatening condition, his body was shutting itself down, going into protection mode, but Ali wanted him to end the series ahead of Mola enough to risk forcing him onwards irrelevant of the consequences.

Hyperbole much?

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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stringcheese wrote:
chrisb12 wrote:
northern monkey wrote:
The Mola hat complaint is hilarious. He will be complaining Alistair nicked his lolly pop next. Alistair won Washington WS without goggles a few years back, it didn't impede his swim. What are his excuses for poor or very poor swims in the other 999 world series races? Mola is just not a good enough triathlete, in previous terminology he would be described as a wet runner and a bad looser. Mola won the world title by default, not merit and he knows it, just sour grapes I am afraid!


Mola may not be using it as an excuse but just pissed off it happened. If there was a time when they were near enough for it to happen I don't for a second think Brownlee couldn't have done it. Watch the London Grand final swim footage. (I think that was the race) the camera moves in quite close and you see Alistair swimming on the hip/shoulder of another competitor, in his stroke he places his hand, fingers splayed, on the head of the forward athlete and continues through with the pull of his stroke. This propels him forward and the unfortunate athlete is pushed down and back and is on Ali's hip at the end of that one stroke. Everyone is forgetting the competitive drive of the Brownlees, win at all costs. My god his brother was collapsing from heat exhaustion, an extremely dangerous and life threatening condition, his body was shutting itself down, going into protection mode, but Ali wanted him to end the series ahead of Mola enough to risk forcing him onwards irrelevant of the consequences.


Hyperbole much?

Hyperthermia is elevated body temperature due to failed thermoregulation that occurs when a body produces or absorbs more heat than it dissipates. Extreme temperature elevation then becomes a medical emergency requiring immediate treatment to prevent disability or death.


In severe heat stroke, there may be confused or seemingly intoxicated behavior. Heart rate and respiration rate will increase (tachycardia and tachypnea) as blood pressure drops and the heart attempts to maintain adequate circulation. The decrease in blood pressure can then cause blood vessels to contract reflexly, resulting in a pale or bluish skin color in advanced cases. Young children, in particular, may have seizures. Eventually, organ failure, unconsciousness and death will result.

did he not appear confused and intoxicated to you?
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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if AB were really a "win at all costs" person, then why would he have stopped to grab his brother and forego a most likely win with the only cost of the hurt it would have taken to kick the last 400m? you can't lambast someone for doing anything it takes to win after a race in which he went out of his way NOT to win in order pursue something more noble.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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The Greater Win was the series not that one race. The win at all costs was directed towards a Brownlee winning the series. Was impossible for Ali to do but if Johnee could get 2nd and Mola 6th it could have happened. There's the Goal.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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then that's not win at all costs as you even admit that he wasn't even trying to win.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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THE GREATER WIN. Win for the Brownlees... that IS the win they were trying to achieve. .And yes he sure as hell was trying to win that.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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intentionally NOT winning so someone else can win is NOT "winning at all costs". you might have your own bizarre definition of that but the rest of the world does not share it with you.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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If he had won it was just a race.. he had no way of winning the series.. the Bigger prize, the bigger money etc. Sure he was willing to concede in this race to give Johnee the big win because at least it would go to a Brownlee. As I said, It was pretty obvious early on that was the win they were both working towards, not the race but the series. There was no way Ali could win it outright even by winning the race so he had to step back and try to help his brother win.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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i'm not sure what you were attempting to accomplish by pointing out the obvious fact that AB was working for JB so JB could win. that in and of itself is exhibit A for someone who isn't trying to win at all costs. this concept appears to be flying right over your head so maybe you should talk to someone in the real world to help get you up to speed on it.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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the Brownlees worked as a team... the win at all costs was FOR THE TEAM to try to win the series.You are the one not getting it.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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Moving goalposts. That's called being a team player and not someone who wants to win at all costs.
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Re: ITU Discussion Thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
intentionally NOT winning so someone else can win is NOT "winning at all costs". you might have your own bizarre definition of that but the rest of the world does not share it with you.

are you the "rest of the world?"
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