Oh and WECT the local news station will be going down there later to do some interviews, I guess they got word of all the FB Posts and the comments and want to interview some race participants of how IRONMAN has handled all of this. If you want to be on TV send me a message and ill set it up...
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Re: IRONMAN NC [MANDOWN]
[ In reply to ]
Re: IRONMAN NC [The GMAN]
[ In reply to ]
The GMAN wrote:
Tri3 wrote:
Well, I have to say that it seems like the decision-making process by the corporation, and the entitled responses on the FB page, are a logical consequence of WTC turning iron distance triathlon into a commodity to be bought and sold. WTC makes decisions based on what is best for the corporation, purchasers of the commodity feel short changed when the "product" they get is different than what they paid a premium price for. Honestly, had this been Setup, I can easily imagine this playing out very differently. It might have looked more like this: as the hurricane approaches multiple emails would have gone out from Setup about the potential impact and possible responses. Once the hurricane passed, emails would have gone out very quickly about potential changes. In fact, I can easily imagine Setup saying pretty quickly something like "The impact of the hurricane is devastating. We cannot ask our community to host this event at this time. We will find a way to make our athletes whole. Instead, we are hosting the day of the race as a day to volunteer to help rebuild the community. We welcome you to join us. For those that can't, please consider donating your hotel room to a family that has been evacuated."
And you know what, I best most of the athletes would have readily accepted that response, because it's about community, not profit.
Are you new to type-A triathlete assholeness?
You talk about the entitled responses and then close out your comments with "it's about community???" The problem is that it's not for a significant portion of the registered athletes. You were right the first time. It's about entitlement for many (not all). It's about me, me, me, my race, my race, my race. I was just reading some FB posts about IMNC and there's a lot of people with a skewed sense of moral direction.
But yeah, it's somehow WTC's fault.
The decision isn't their fault, but a lot of the communication woes are. If they knew this was the call last week then they should have said so. Waiting until this week only locked in people to a lot of flights they otherwise wouldn't have taken. And even if they didn't know, they could have said that.
At IMMD last year they constantly updated the athletes on the state of the course and their efforts in a very similar situation. They said early on that the race was at risk, but they were doing their best to deal with the disaster. That honesty bought a lot of good PR. Additionally, IMMD offered transfers to all athletes that didn't make the trip. I expected that here too but oh well.
The part that bugs me now is hiding behind "care for the community." The community asked them to cancel the race. I would have been okay with that. And the part that drove it home for me was the $10k donation... better than nothing but it comes to about $2.50 per athlete. I'm guessing they just took what they saved on the personal not needed for the longer course and the extra hours they get back at the end of the day and threw it in a donation. No hit to the bottom line. But it's a business you say? I know. Given that I'd almost rather them go all in and can the race, keep our money, and not pretend to be concerned. Businesses need to care about customer care too though, at least a little.
And to hedge that a tad, I am sure the local teams care about their communities. I am not questioning them at all. I bet they feel as bad about this as some of the athletes do. I'm just assuming they aren't getting to call the big shots in this situation.
In the end it's all just venting though and it's only a race. But it sucks and I am not gonna throw people under the bus as assholes for venting the day they get this news, especially considering how the comms have been handled. Their heads will cool and they'll do what they can on race day, but you can't say WTC handled this well.
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: IRONMAN NC [MANDOWN]
[ In reply to ]
MANDOWN wrote:
Just registered at the conevention center, front doors were locked and still were when i left at 930, i guess its not off to a good start there either. Mood seeme kind of somber in there, talked to a few athletes that were pretty bummed. One said they are going to break the trainer out at the finish line and get in the other 66 miles. I asked if I could switch to the half and was quickly shut down with an "absolutely not, there will be no switching from one distance to another". So i just grabbed my gear, ate my free cliff bar and left. See you saturday morning..I hope everybody is in a better mood by Saturday morning. There are enough pissy triathletes in races already so if race day adding in a bunch of disappointed/pissed of athletes together on a congested course is a recipe for disaster. Can't wait for the reaction to the first drafting penalty handed out.
Re: IRONMAN NC [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
TriTamp wrote:
MANDOWN wrote:
Just registered at the conevention center, front doors were locked and still were when i left at 930, i guess its not off to a good start there either. Mood seeme kind of somber in there, talked to a few athletes that were pretty bummed. One said they are going to break the trainer out at the finish line and get in the other 66 miles. I asked if I could switch to the half and was quickly shut down with an "absolutely not, there will be no switching from one distance to another". So i just grabbed my gear, ate my free cliff bar and left. See you saturday morning..I hope everybody is in a better mood by Saturday morning. There are enough pissy triathletes in races already so if race day adding in a bunch of disappointed/pissed of athletes together on a congested course is a recipe for disaster. Can't wait for the reaction to the first drafting penalty handed out.
I can't imagine... what if they gave one to every rider stuck in a pack? I am super not looking forward to this course. I'm not ITU trained.
You get a card! YOU get a card! YOU GET A CARD!
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: IRONMAN NC [MrRabbit]
[ In reply to ]
MrRabbit wrote:
The decision isn't their fault, but a lot of the communication woes are. If they knew this was the call last week then they should have said so. Waiting until this week only locked in people to a lot of flights they otherwise wouldn't have taken. And even if they didn't know, they could have said that.
At IMMD last year they constantly updated the athletes on the state of the course and their efforts in a very similar situation. They said early on that the race was at risk, but they were doing their best to deal with the disaster. That honesty bought a lot of good PR. Additionally, IMMD offered transfers to all athletes that didn't make the trip. I expected that here too but oh well.
The part that bugs me now is hiding behind "care for the community." The community asked them to cancel the race. I would have been okay with that. And the part that drove it home for me was the $10k donation... better than nothing but it comes to about $2.50 per athlete. I'm guessing they just took what they saved on the personal not needed for the longer course and the extra hours they get back at the end of the day and threw it in a donation. No hit to the bottom line. But it's a business you say? I know. Given that I'd almost rather them go all in and can the race, keep our money, and not pretend to be concerned. Businesses need to care about customer care too though, at least a little.
And to hedge that a tad, I am sure the local teams care about their communities. I am not questioning them at all. I bet they feel as bad about this as some of the athletes do. I'm just assuming they aren't getting to call the big shots in this situation.
In the end it's all just venting though and it's only a race. But it sucks and I am not gonna throw people under the bus as assholes for venting the day they get this news, especially considering how the comms have been handled. Their heads will cool and they'll do what they can on race day, but you can't say WTC handled this well.
As a "victim" of IM Maryland 2015 & IM NC 2016, I would like to share some thoughts:
WTC has handled Maryland 2015 & IM NC 2016 (as well as IM Texas 2016) so poorly it can't even be put into words. The only thing WTC did right in regards to the 3 races mentioned is to cancel Maryland 2015 and they even handled that poorly. They made the call after athlete check in had opened and some athletes had already gone through the line (I had boarded a plane, flew to BWI, drove to Cambridge, checked in and was admiring my swag when the communication came through that the race was cancelled for the original date). All this when it was perfectly clear to anyone with even a lick of common sense knew the race couldn't be held.
WTC knew that the original IM Texas bike course was going to be altered and they continued to deny it. There were public records available to anyone with good Google Fu that proved they were in discussions with various communities to come up with an alternate course.
And I have a first hand view of what has been going on in NC as I live about 2 1/2 hours away from Wilmington. It was abundantly clear just a day or two after Mathew came through that this course was going to be altered in some way. Waiting until yesterday to announce it was complete bullshit.
ETA: I'm going to race the "full" on Saturday and try to make the best of the situation and just enjoy the day.
Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Last edited by:
japarker24: Oct 19, 16 7:32
Re: IRONMAN NC [japarker24]
[ In reply to ]
Replying to the thread.
ST'ers if/when you're in the big packs just make sure you are in the middle so you can't be shamed. The draft pack photos for this event I'm going on record as saying will be the best (or worst however you look at it) in the history of IM.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
ST'ers if/when you're in the big packs just make sure you are in the middle so you can't be shamed. The draft pack photos for this event I'm going on record as saying will be the best (or worst however you look at it) in the history of IM.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Re: IRONMAN NC [japarker24]
[ In reply to ]
japarker24 wrote:
MrRabbit wrote:
The decision isn't their fault, but a lot of the communication woes are. If they knew this was the call last week then they should have said so. Waiting until this week only locked in people to a lot of flights they otherwise wouldn't have taken. And even if they didn't know, they could have said that.
At IMMD last year they constantly updated the athletes on the state of the course and their efforts in a very similar situation. They said early on that the race was at risk, but they were doing their best to deal with the disaster. That honesty bought a lot of good PR. Additionally, IMMD offered transfers to all athletes that didn't make the trip. I expected that here too but oh well.
The part that bugs me now is hiding behind "care for the community." The community asked them to cancel the race. I would have been okay with that. And the part that drove it home for me was the $10k donation... better than nothing but it comes to about $2.50 per athlete. I'm guessing they just took what they saved on the personal not needed for the longer course and the extra hours they get back at the end of the day and threw it in a donation. No hit to the bottom line. But it's a business you say? I know. Given that I'd almost rather them go all in and can the race, keep our money, and not pretend to be concerned. Businesses need to care about customer care too though, at least a little.
And to hedge that a tad, I am sure the local teams care about their communities. I am not questioning them at all. I bet they feel as bad about this as some of the athletes do. I'm just assuming they aren't getting to call the big shots in this situation.
In the end it's all just venting though and it's only a race. But it sucks and I am not gonna throw people under the bus as assholes for venting the day they get this news, especially considering how the comms have been handled. Their heads will cool and they'll do what they can on race day, but you can't say WTC handled this well.
As a "victim" of IM Maryland 2015 & IM NC 2016, I would like to share some thoughts:
WTC has handled Maryland 2015 & IM NC 2016 (as well as IM Texas 2016) so poorly it can't even be put into words. The only thing WTC did right in regards to the 3 races mentioned is to cancel Maryland 2015 and they even handled that poorly. They made the call after athlete check in had opened and some athletes had already gone through the line (I had boarded a plane, flew to BWI, drove to Cambridge, checked in and was admiring my swag when the communication came through that the race was cancelled for the original date). All this when it was perfectly clear to anyone with even a lick of common sense knew the race couldn't be held.
WTC knew that the original IM Texas bike course was going to be altered and they continued to deny it. There were public records available to anyone with good Google Fu that proved they were in discussions with various communities to come up with an alternate course.
And I have a first hand view of what has been going on in NC as I live about 2 1/2 hours away from Wilmington. It was abundantly clear just a day or two after Mathew came through that this course was going to be altered in some way. Waiting until yesterday to announce it was complete bullshit.
ETA: I'm going to race the "full" on Saturday and try to make the best of the situation and just enjoy the day.
That's good context. I'll cede your point on IMMD 2015... I must be misremembering as I found out in time not to make the trip and stay home.
I guess we can agree that they handled this terribly, and I'll now add that this seems to be their modus operandi.
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: IRONMAN NC [japarker24]
[ In reply to ]
I've raced two prior WTC events. Both HIMs. I thought they were great. Well organized. Fun. Good swag. All of that. With that being said, it's obvious when push comes to shove WTC is making decisions based on their bottom line. I'm sure there are some good people there trying to do the right thing but it's obvious by how they communicate, or don't, that holding onto those dollars is obviously more important than making things right. Like you said, they had to know very shortly after the Hurricane that the course would need to be altered significantly. They can't be so naive that they believed things would sort themselves out in a couple of weeks after the hurricane. They just went through an altered bike course in Texas so they know they can't just snap their fingers and have a new bike course. So there is no way that they honestly believed that they could magically adjust the bike course in less than two weeks. Yet they would have us believe that is the case and only communicated race week that the course would be altered.
Re: IRONMAN NC [Tri3]
[ In reply to ]
Last year, for the Pinehurst International (which Setup runs), that is exactly what they did when there was extraordinary rain on the scheduled weekend in Oct 2015--they rescheduled it to May 2016, and gave all athletes automatic registration for it. Of note, IMMD was the same day that October, and you may recall that they postponed that entire race to 3 weeks later.
Re: IRONMAN NC [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
Still, I'm trying to imagine what good will come from the local news coming down to record a bunch of pissed-off triathletes venting about how they've been inconvenienced.
I hope people think about how it'll come across......and who's going to be watching.
FTR, I don't blame the athletes for being pissed.
I hope people think about how it'll come across......and who's going to be watching.
FTR, I don't blame the athletes for being pissed.
Re: IRONMAN NC [MANDOWN]
[ In reply to ]
MANDOWN wrote:
Its all about the $$$$.I am willing to bet it would be cheaper for ironman to just cancel the race, since they could probably do so without needing to refund the racers.
This is coming from someone that has lots of issues with WTC and avoids their races, but really they are in a difficult place right now.
Re: IRONMAN NC [willsbr4beer]
[ In reply to ]
willsbr4beer wrote:
Last year, for the Pinehurst International (which Setup runs), that is exactly what they did when there was extraordinary rain on the scheduled weekend in Oct 2015--they rescheduled it to May 2016, and gave all athletes automatic registration for it. Of note, IMMD was the same day that October, and you may recall that they postponed that entire race to 3 weeks later.Points of clarification:
In 2015, IM Maryland by WTC and Pinehurst International Triathlon by Set Up Events were both forced to be cancelled by Hurricane Joaquin. Both of these races were to be held on October 3, 2015.
IM Maryland was rescheduled to October 17, 2015 and athletes were given options including racing on the new date or transferring to other WTC races.
Pinehurst International Triathlon was not rescheduled but athletes were given automatic entry into the 2016 event. It just so happens that the 2016 event was moved from October to May.
ETA: I'm a finisher of both IM Maryland 2015 & Pinehurst International Triathlon 2016
Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Last edited by:
japarker24: Oct 19, 16 7:51
Re: IRONMAN NC [chaparral]
[ In reply to ]
chaparral wrote:
MANDOWN wrote:
Its all about the $$$$.I am willing to bet it would be cheaper for ironman to just cancel the race, since they could probably do so without needing to refund the racers.
This is coming from someone that has lots of issues with WTC and avoids their races, but really they are in a difficult place right now.
I've been thinking about that and I can't work out if it's true or not. They typically sell a lot of swag (not as much this year) and get kickbacks from hotels and stuff... but I'm not sure if that offsets the man hours. It might because I'm guessing part of the worker contracts still gets them some portion of pay even if the race gets canned. It might honestly be more profitable not to cancel and do it this way.
My best evidence is the fact that they are doing it I guess!
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: IRONMAN NC [nc452010]
[ In reply to ]
nc452010 wrote:
Still, I'm trying to imagine what good will come from the local news coming down to record a bunch of pissed-off triathletes venting about how they've been inconvenienced. I hope people think about how it'll come across......and who's going to be watching.
FTR, I don't blame the athletes for being pissed.
x2
Be sure to wear your brightest race visor.
Re: IRONMAN NC [nc452010]
[ In reply to ]
nc452010 wrote:
Still, I'm trying to imagine what good will come from the local news coming down to record a bunch of pissed-off triathletes venting about how they've been inconvenienced. I hope people think about how it'll come across......and who's going to be watching.
FTR, I don't blame the athletes for being pissed.
exactly. some people can't help themselves though. I'm only doing the half so my race is only mildly impacted and the course congestion is my big worry. I totally get the full distance athletes being pissed especially about WTC's piss poor communication. But there has to be a little dose of perspective tossed in that a shortened race is nothing compared to people who have lost their homes or just the overall impact of the hurricane on the area.
Re: IRONMAN NC [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
TriTamp wrote:
nc452010 wrote:
Still, I'm trying to imagine what good will come from the local news coming down to record a bunch of pissed-off triathletes venting about how they've been inconvenienced. I hope people think about how it'll come across......and who's going to be watching.
FTR, I don't blame the athletes for being pissed.
exactly. some people can't help themselves though. I'm only doing the half so my race is only mildly impacted and the course congestion is my big worry. I totally get the full distance athletes being pissed especially about WTC's piss poor communication. But there has to be a little dose of perspective tossed in that a shortened race is nothing compared to people who have lost their homes or just the overall impact of the hurricane on the area.
Let me be clear.....I wasn't creating a false dichotomy......because I still think people can and should be pissed off @ WTC....AND they can still be empathetic to the locals.
I'm just saying, venting to news crews about it is gonna make triathletes look like spoiled brats. The majority of people who are going to be watching the interviews......lost something (some lost everything).
Re: IRONMAN NC [nc452010]
[ In reply to ]
nc452010 wrote:
TriTamp wrote:
nc452010 wrote:
Still, I'm trying to imagine what good will come from the local news coming down to record a bunch of pissed-off triathletes venting about how they've been inconvenienced. I hope people think about how it'll come across......and who's going to be watching.
FTR, I don't blame the athletes for being pissed.
exactly. some people can't help themselves though. I'm only doing the half so my race is only mildly impacted and the course congestion is my big worry. I totally get the full distance athletes being pissed especially about WTC's piss poor communication. But there has to be a little dose of perspective tossed in that a shortened race is nothing compared to people who have lost their homes or just the overall impact of the hurricane on the area.
Let me be clear.....I wasn't creating a false dichotomy......because I still think people can and should be pissed off @ WTC....AND they can still be empathetic to the locals.
I'm just saying, venting to news crews about it is gonna make triathletes look like spoiled brats. The majority of people who are going to be watching the interviews......lost something (some lost everything).
+1
I'm getting it out of my system now so I can enjoy the weekend, hopefully. I'm more afraid of overbiking now than I was at 112.
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: IRONMAN NC [MrRabbit]
[ In reply to ]
I'm more afraid of overbiking now than I was at 112.
Just hop on a wheel for a free tow to T2......they'll be plenty available!!!
Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Just hop on a wheel for a free tow to T2......they'll be plenty available!!!
Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Re: IRONMAN NC [nc452010]
[ In reply to ]
nc452010 wrote:
TriTamp wrote:
nc452010 wrote:
Still, I'm trying to imagine what good will come from the local news coming down to record a bunch of pissed-off triathletes venting about how they've been inconvenienced. I hope people think about how it'll come across......and who's going to be watching.
FTR, I don't blame the athletes for being pissed.
exactly. some people can't help themselves though. I'm only doing the half so my race is only mildly impacted and the course congestion is my big worry. I totally get the full distance athletes being pissed especially about WTC's piss poor communication. But there has to be a little dose of perspective tossed in that a shortened race is nothing compared to people who have lost their homes or just the overall impact of the hurricane on the area.
Let me be clear.....I wasn't creating a false dichotomy......because I still think people can and should be pissed off @ WTC....AND they can still be empathetic to the locals.
I'm just saying, venting to news crews about it is gonna make triathletes look like spoiled brats. The majority of people who are going to be watching the interviews......lost something (some lost everything).
totally agree.
Re: IRONMAN NC [japarker24]
[ In reply to ]
japarker24 wrote:
I'm more afraid of overbiking now than I was at 112. Just hop on a wheel for a free tow to T2......they'll be plenty available!!!
I'm guessing the congestion will start 15-20 miles into the ride when the bulk of the "half" folks catch up to the "full" folks...
Another Muncie at that point.
Re: IRONMAN NC [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
I wonder how much of WTC cancelling races so late is because of their commitments to local CVB's and chambers. They say our event will book X amount of rooms and in return you help us out with X.
They'll look pretty bad to local groups whose help they need if they are perceived as taking money out of the local economy and tax revenue by canceling races.
They'll look pretty bad to local groups whose help they need if they are perceived as taking money out of the local economy and tax revenue by canceling races.
Re: IRONMAN NC [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
"Best thing I did at last year's B2B 140.6 was to bring a heatsheet / trashable blanket to the pre-swim beach hangout, in addition to sweats, socks, hat and gloves. There were way too many athletes sitting around shivering their buns off in the cold, dark wait. You can always not use it. Wish I had brought a few extra and made some really unhappy athletes happy. "
"Couldn't they just put their wetsuits on?"
I wore my wetsuit last year. Putting it on right after getting off the bus and using a port-a-potty. I was still freezing. I laid down to get out of the wind, and shivered. I thought for sure the wetsuit would be enough. I had fuzzy socks on.
To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
"Couldn't they just put their wetsuits on?"
I wore my wetsuit last year. Putting it on right after getting off the bus and using a port-a-potty. I was still freezing. I laid down to get out of the wind, and shivered. I thought for sure the wetsuit would be enough. I had fuzzy socks on.
To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
Re: IRONMAN NC [Tri3]
[ In reply to ]
I was registered for Beach2Battleship last year when it was still run by Set Up Events. I got the flu the week before the race and they let me defer to this year. Surprisingly WTC honored the deferal they gave me. If it had been WTC, it never would have happened. Why not? "Cause fuck the customer, that's why," says WTC.
Don't drown. Don't crash. Don't walk.
Don't drown. Don't crash. Don't walk.
Re: IRONMAN NC [rotosound]
[ In reply to ]
rotosound wrote:
Surprisingly WTC honored the deferal they gave me. ........Certainly the contract to sell the race included a clause that all entries already granted from Set Up Events would be honored.
Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
I'm coming down to support my friend doing the race. As I mulled it over in my mind, I decided flying down for the price I found was a nicer alternative to spending 16 h in my car for the round trip. It is funny that I bought tickets <24 h ahead of this announcement.
Anyway, my usual race wear would include T-shirts from other events. I mean, I can't stand on the sidelines w/o advertising how awesome I am, can I? <pink> Now I'm unsure what to wear. Do I want to show up as an IM supporter who is helping (I am going to volunteer)? Or do I want to show up anonymously and help?
Either way, I'm not good with thinking on my feet when it comes to expressing myself, so I'll be dodging any cameras.
To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
Anyway, my usual race wear would include T-shirts from other events. I mean, I can't stand on the sidelines w/o advertising how awesome I am, can I? <pink> Now I'm unsure what to wear. Do I want to show up as an IM supporter who is helping (I am going to volunteer)? Or do I want to show up anonymously and help?
Either way, I'm not good with thinking on my feet when it comes to expressing myself, so I'll be dodging any cameras.
To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.