I bought it too and I think with the modifications they made for 2011 it is much more user friendly bike. A normal bottle fits fine on the downtube and the rear brake is more accessible. They seem to have addressed the concerns with this bike with the 2011 modifications and now they are just going to scrap it.

What other Cervelo bike have they scrapped after only 3 years?

I'm finding it hard to believe they can come up with a faster bike with an exposed rear brake and a normal bottle, isn't this the P3?

My first dedicated bike for TTs was my wifes old frame. It was too small for me but I could put aero bars on, and I could get really low on it. It was really twitchy, mainly be cause I was way too far forward, but It was rideable. I wouldn't have used it on a super twisty course, but yeah too far forward screws with handling.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

He's trying to blame the tools, when it was pilot error.

My P4 is about as steep as a bike can possibly get - zero spacers, Arione Tri saddle pretty much all the way forward, and I ride the nose.
Because I'm not a gaper, I manage to keep the rubber side down consistently.

PS - the new R brake on the P4 works just fine. I can lock it up at will. That "issue" no longer exists.
PPS - what I think would be totally badass on the P5/Px/Pwhatever they call it - is internal hydraulic brakes built into the F fork.

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float , hammer , and jog

Could it be that the handling was too quick for aerobars, thus very small inputs generated big swaying directional changes, which were too great for anything other than a traditional road bike setup? I'm willing to bet that if you put traditional road bar drops for your aerobar setup, handling would be totally fine.

If you took a P3, or any other "steep" tri bike, and put a fork that didn't have enough rake on it, it would become "too twitchy to ride steep." Weight distribution has very little to do with handling in these circumstances.

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Ignorance is bliss until they take your bliss away.

I ride a 51cm P3, am 5'7" tall, weight the wrong side of 175 and ride steep (81 degrees).
Most stable bike I have ever ridden while on the aero bars. Period.

Well, in a way you are saying the only test to see if a bike is fast, is wins in a race and the P4 has never won Hawaii ;-) Neither has the P3, only the P2 has.
Maybe Macca won Hawaii last year because he had the most aerodynamic bike number fitted on the bike and CA and AR had not ???

Not too many p4's under the top guys in Hawaii since it's introduction. At the moment we have a guy who 'lost' the race last year on the bike who seems to be doing everything possible to make sure he doesn't end up in the same situation again this year. Looks like the first test run at Vegas went well.............if he wins Kona those dusty p4's are going to be flying out the door!

I had a P3SL (the matt black one) and it remains my favourite bike. Was like a Porsche at high speed. Smooth & no twitch. My interestes have moved on (hello, Look 596) but the Cervelo was a cool, cool bike.

I really was being specific to LB. She had a history of great races on a specific bike, switched, her performances weren't as good, so she switched back. I can't fault her for that, even if someone showed her WT data that said her first bike was "slower".

Styrrell

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Styrrell

I have no inside information. But I am willing to make a bet with you Bigred that Cervelo will drop the P4 in their offering by 2013. Are you willing to officially take the bet?

Personally I have nothing against the P4. I just believe that Cervelo needs to come out with something more competitive with the SC. They need to fight for the tri segment. I believe the SC really hurt them. Bike innovation in this segment is moving really quick. I would say faster than any bike innovation in history. The game is on and Cervelo needs to play.

I would really like to see Cervelo do the following:

- Come out with a bike that is focused on Tri instead of TT
- Not worry about UCI
- Copy the SC trunk and bento box. Cervelo should have done it first but that is life. They could also do it better. Definitely room
- Integrated aero bar. But come up with a way to do better adjustments
- Integrated front brake. As was mentioned somewhere else. They should look at redefining how brakes work and come up with a better solution
- Support for the new, wide, toroidal shape wheels.

I do really think Cervelo missed the boat. Just go to a IM race. Heck go to a sprint. People want to carry lots and lots of stuff on their bike. That is what the consumer wants to do so make it easier for them on the bike to do it. Many industries are about integration and making their product more user friendly. Trek got this. So you know the triathlete will have a computer, water, and more water, food, tools, tube, etc. Make it easy for them. That is what the SC did. The P4 took the exact opposite direction and that is why Cervelo blew it with the P4. The P4 makes it much harder to carry your stuff. Heck you can't even carry water on it easily.


The P4 water bottle obviously needs to change.

its possible the only thing in your list that would make the bike faster is the aero trunk/bento box idea.

the SC integrated front end does look cool as hell, but it isn't clear that it is faster.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Someone else aready covered that the P4 and P3 share geometry (also shared with the P1/P2 in 48/51 sizes). In any case, doesn't more front-center make the bike more stable? Longer wheelbase and more weight on the rear wheel...

Shhhhhh hes trying to come up with an excuse for his triathlete bike handling skills. The p4 isn't twitchy at all, neither is the p3, you can fall asleep on both of them and ride in a straight line forever.

There really is no way to call a bike more or less stable without having a specific rider in the equation.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

No excuses. Apparently no one that has responded to this stability actually read what I wrote.

Unless you count me stating that "I have no bike handling skills" as an excuse, then ok, gee, you got me.

TO ME, the bike is twitchy. More so than the Look 596, the Felt DA, the QR Seduza.......And that is all the bikes I have been on, so I can't comment past that. I have used all the same components on the Look 596 to the Cervelo P4. I have been on the Cervelo P4 2009 and the 2011. Both seemed about the same.

So there you have it, my final answer is....The P4 steering seems twitchy to ME. My disclaimer is......I know nothing and such my swimming, biking, and handling skills are equal to such knowledge.

**But I can stil beat most of you. JK

you have to admit it is odd when the p2/p3 share the same geometry and those are pretty much the most common bike which every Fred, purple menace, and noob manages to ride with no problems

and you think its twitchy and caused a crash

and the front center is within millimeters of those other bikes.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Jack, do you read well? I caused the crash because of a lack of bike handling skills. I think I have stated this quite often.

However, I didn't have bike handling skills on my Look 596 on the same course 1 year ago and didn't crash on the same speed bump at the same speed. There are a lot of different elements that could have played a factor, but the different bike frame was the biggest difference.

When I pick up any of my other tri bikes, the cockpit doesn't swing wildly like the P4 does. When I run along side any other of my tri bikes, there is minimal effort to keep the bike straight, my P4 takes more effort.

Again, I would probably chaulk it up to my handling skills or lack there of, but that is my main arguement.

A porsche is fast, and anyone with money can walk into a dealership and drive out and likely handle corners at fast speeds. No special driving skills needed. Now put that same driver in a formula car that has been tweaked for performance. The handling requirements might be tad more necessary with the formula car. That is the difference I feel between the P4 and other tri bikes I have ridden.

Ever been in a high peformance car, looked down at the speedometer and realized, crap, I'm doing 100 mph, sure as hell doesn't feel like it. Ever been in a jeep with the top down going 40mph and it felt like you were going 100mph? Now, throw in a deer in the middle of the road. At 40mph, I will likely be able to stop or avoid the animal, at 100mph, the car is likely to skid and with my driving skills, likely to spin out of control and take out the deer and anything else around me.

That is my feeling on the P4 versus other tri bikes that I have ridden.

If it does this it has NOTHING to do with the handling characteristics of the bike. It sounds like you had a better headset in the p4 so it turned easier. That's all.

sounds like you just had an unlucky moment to me

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

for what type of rider would additional front-center make a bike less stable?

Unfortunately, it isnot theonly time the front end of the bike has given me a hard time after hiting a bump, pot hole, crack in the road, medium size rock. This is something that didn't occur on my Look 596, and I rode the Look at IMLP this year without any problems, and those roads are crap.

But I don't want it to. It's much easier to control when the bike doesn't easily steer and move with every change to the road surface. What is a crappy headset that will stay straight?

For a rider that is on too long of a bike too start with and the front end becomes even longer. In that case he would need an excessively short stem to compensate, so a little input into steering would change the wheel direction a lot, and very little weight would be on the front wheel.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

Conspiracy theory -

Look at Inside Triathlon article by Mat Steinmetz on Crowie and improvements for Kona. Then, turn the page...coincidence. Yeah, probably. Maybe. Hey...wait a minute!

Brent

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

I don't think it says he is a liability to a sponsor at all, especially when we don't know all the details, but even if he did just change bikes to be on a faster option. Crowie is one of the top triathletes in the world, in a lot of ways, it is up to his sponsors to keep him happy with great products. If they don't have the ability to do that, it is their fault. Crowie has a family to take care of, and the best way he can do that, is to win races. If he feels like he can't win races with his current equipment, he needs to find the equipment he can win races with.

An athlete's or any team's first job is to win, if they don't feel like they can do that in their current incarnation, they change it. Bring in new players, get rid of old players, it happens every day, in every sport. Hell, at least Nike had the good sense to release the college baseball teams from having to use their bats, when they realized they sucked compared to other manufactureres bats.

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"I like you. I'll gladly sit down and have dinner with you after the race. But when the gun goes off, I pretty much hate you, and I want to stomp your guts out. That's racing." -Rappstar

http://train4autism.org/