I totally agree in cold water swims. At Oceanside, where you can only get in when the prior AG gun goes off, I walk down the ramp as deep as they'll let me prior to that gun, usually thigh deep, and crouch down and get as much water on my face and in my wetsuit. Do that for 3 minutes, and when they finally let us in I've never felt cold or had that reaction. I think it's very important. But not always possible (Alcatraz)

this is not to be underestimated... I think that Gleason had an adrenaline rush as he approached the finish of the philly marathon, PR, beating his bestie and coach... Adrenaline pushes an already pushed system...

Did Ben Collins beat us to the punch?

http://bencollins.org/blog/2013/06/mountain-climbers-navy-seals-and-overhydrated-triathletes

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After millions of years of selective breeding, here we are!

News reporting that preliminary autopsy results indicate that the athlete suffered a heart attack. No known prior cardiac issues per family members. Very sad.

I think there is too much thought being put into this. I've done many cold open water swims with and without a wetsuit since I was a young teenager. While I'm sure we can identify the exact medical cause, I don't think we can prevent the deaths that we have seen.

1. Water is inherently dangerous. More people die drowning each year than many other reasons.
2. A lot of people are apprehensive about open water swimming, period. Swimming in open water is the biggest barrier of entry for most would be triathletes. If you haven't gotten over this completely by the time you jump into the water in your first or continue to suffer this with every subsequent race, you are in a higher risk group period. This apprehension causes increased heart rate, panic and irregular breathing. When combined with the inherent danger of open water swimming with a lot of people its not surprise people are getting pulled out of the water or dying. I'm surprised more people aren't pulled from the water dead or unconscious.
3. Body defects that may prove fatal when combined with the excitement/apprehension and crowded water just cannot be predicted. By the time most race, they have pushed their bodies to limits they have never reached and higher limits than most humans. Its like when I 90 year old person dies of pneumonia. No, they died of old age.
4. Cold water, or cold weather for that matter has uncontrollable affects on humans. Cold weather open water swimmers are taught really quick you need to enter that water with lungs full of air because the shock (often caused by cold water exposure on the face) will cause the rib and chest muscles to constrict inhibiting ones ability to breath in air for up to 30 seconds. This can create quite a problem for somebody unprepared for that and can easily lead to panic and a downward spiral from there. Anybody who swims in cold water regularly, works in cold water (master divers and SEALS) are taught this and prepare accordingly. Is it no surprise that somebody who has never done a triathlon, is excited about their first race, but apprehensive about open water swimming, getting surprised by cold water shock and the inability to breath for 30 seconds bing at high risk of dying in the chaotic human pool that is a triathlon start? I don't think so.

To me, I don't think the statistics aren't that bad considering the number of participants each year. Sensational? Yes. I don't know if all the research or even staggered starts will prevent deaths. Maybe reduce them? But to what level, the numbers are already very low.

With that said, I do think that starting in the water (as much as that sucks) could help identify people who are going to have a problem and might make such people aware of any problem they may face before it is too late. But will pride let them sit one out?

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

As an ER doc, you have never had an "issue" until you HAVE and then you may be dead..

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

Definitely sad, didn't hear about it until we got back to the hotel room later.

There wasn't any warm up, pros got in for a few minutes, but everyone else was hop in and go. I thought the water temp was fine, especially with wetsuit, didn't get the constricted chest feeling like you do in cold water. It was a violent first 300-400 yards like usual, but relatively uneventful and lots of room after that headed back downstream. I'd imagine it happened at the beginning?

Very sad, such a great event.

Just as an aside, on a FB page for the race I was frankly shocked at the number of folks that were either (1) praying hard for a wetsuit legal race no matter what the water/air temps were; or (2) dreading a wetsuit swim due to panic.

I checked the race's page at 4 am and it said wetsuit legal, and someone commented "risk a wetsuit induced panic or a brisk swim???"

This for what has to be the calmest, mildest swim in any race I've ever done, flatwater no surf no wind swim in a really really wide area. ANd with a current to boot. I know we talk about how unprepared people can be, but this was pretty shocking

Not entirely shocked, always panicked people over wetsuits/weather, first timers or worry warts.

Did anybody notice the POLL on the left hand side of this article? It is asking if Ironman races are dangerous. 20% are saying yes it is. Do you think this will effect next years race?

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Not disagreeing with these points, but it is notable how often the victims are experienced swimmers (in this case, a lifeguard and scuba diver) and endurance athletes. Not people you would expect to panic in the froth or have general health issues. And here the water was pretty warm.

I've known many experienced triathletes whom dread the swim. Dread it more with a wetsuit.

Water apprehension is a powerful thing.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I wonder if there is a statistical relationship between deaths/emergencies/DNF in the swim and whether or not the race allowed a swim warm-up?

no doubt. For some triathletes, I think it's because swimming is their weakest leg and often they have not trained enough in that leg or just trained less for that leg. Others certainly have issues with open water. Some get nervous about the swim scrum and all the contact during swimming. The tightness of the wetsuit bothers some as well. The point being, warmup or no, the swim leg causes much anxiety in many triathletes.

I just raced Barcelona 70.3 last weekend water temperature was 15c or 59f... It was a rolling start seed by times: 25 mins and less, 30 mins and less...and so on.

They allowed athletes to swim in the Ocean prior to the start until 10 mins Male Pro start at 7:00, Female Pro 7:01, and age group rolling start 7:05...

Personally, I went for a light jog of 5-10 mins around 40 mins prior to the start with a 1-2 mins at Race Pace. 15 mins prior to the swim start I went close to
the Ocean to put some water on my face, neck and feet. It worked well for me.

I have raced different races where you need to swim 100-200y to the starting line. St-Croix 70.3 you have to swim to the island but water temp is 80's (Beach Start), Utah 70.3 they make us
swim 100-150y to the starting buoys where water temps are usually high 50's. So you have no choice to swim to the starting line usually they allow 2 mins to get there. Kayaks are making
sure nobody jumps starts. The waves are age-groups ones and not a rolling start.

I guess a mix of forcing people to swim 100-150y and rolling start could be a solution to ensure some kind of warm-up, but nothing that would make us staying in the water more than 30sec to 1 min without moving.

I live in Tampa, FL so cold water swims are not my norm. My 2nd IM was IMCDA 2010 and I had done numerous races prior to that (including Boise 70.3) but I had a full-on panic attack at Coeur d'Alene. It's the only race I've ever been in that I thought the possibility of dying was real. I finally flagged down a kayak and hung on until my heart quit racing. It was only after that race that I learned about the reflex and need to get my face wet. Fast forward to Jun 2015 when I raced long course in 57 degree water. We had an in-water start and I kept dunking my head again and again before the gun and had no problems. I certainly will never dismiss the need for getting the face wet before starting a cold water swim.

Given the warm water at Chattanooga it probably wasn't the cause of this fatality, but any race with cold water should seriously consider the need for a warm-up area or an in-water start.

"I wonder if there is a statistical relationship between deaths/emergencies/DNF in the swim and whether or not the race allowed a swim warm-up?"

a lot of this stuff is known, or at least you can know if these variables are statistically relevant. there are experts, many of them have been quoted here, and are forum members. we've covered this extensively. here are a number of the articles i've written on this site, not just my own view but investigation and coverage. but about the warmup, i've been calling for this since my first article on the subject, just below, written in 2001:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._miscellany_251.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._open_water_450.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ath_author_2442.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Triathlon_2986.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Nationals_2998.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...Swim_Alive_3374.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._the_Water_3378.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...CD_in_Tri__3382.html
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ou_to_Move_3437.html

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

One thing that is perplexing is that there are very few "near deaths" in our sport, swim or otherwise. I can't recall any instances where someone was pulled from the water and resuscitated successfully. And in some cases, the athlete has received very prompt attention.

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

The latest news reporting says that while being a great athlete he had medical issues related to high blood pressure and high cholesterol. He was taking medication and had expressed to his wife that he was concerned about the swim. It was his first race of that length. So even though he was a diver, he was concerned about a 1.2 mile swim.

Thank you. Those are great resources. I had a crappy swim in NOLA, my first HIM and my first triathlon in more than 20 years. I had all of the hyperventilation, racing heart, panic, etc. that has been described all over the place. I am generally a very even-keeled guy that little phases, so I was pretty surprised during the swim to be feeling the panic in the NOLA water. I attributed it solely to the chop and rough conditions. I was totally unaware of bradycardia and vasoconstriction reflexes until reading through some of the threads here after NOLA. Now, I know that this is what stunned me, and the chop only added to my misery.

not having ever done any scuba diving does that translate at all over to any sort of endurance swimming? I know it translates to not fearing water. Same with the lifeguard. Lifeguards I know go through training but does a typical lifeguard at a pool have the training for longer swims?

EXACTLY me too. I, as well, blamed the wind and waves for it all (as I was taking in some deep breaths of water). But I also will say that once I held onto the kayak...and then the wall, and got my panic down I was able to continue and move along. Once at the first turn buoy all was a lot better since I had calmed down... Didn't think of the cold water shock, just the waves and chop, but once my panic subsided, I was good for the rest of the swim. Hmmm...

I did not notice any crossover in the past. Not much endurance involved in diving really. I was always tired and hungry after a dive but i think that has more to do with the pressure, oxygen change, and body temp regulation.

I will be taking part in my first triathlon in June which includes a swim. (1st tri last year, the swim was cancelled). I feel very comfortable diving but have recently been wondering about how I will feel in the swim portion of my up and coming events. I've done a few open water swims in very calm water, never worn a wetsuit for a swim. Not sure if my dount is based on everything I have read or if I will genuinely feel uncomfortable when the time comes. Guess I will have to wait and see.

The swim requirements for OW dive training are a joke IMO. The requirements are:

• Swim 200 metres/yards (or 300 metres/yards in mask, fins and snorkel). There is no time limit for this, and you may use any swimming strokes you want.
• Float and tread water for 10 minutes, again using any methods you want.

Go on a typical dive boat and you will see the most UN in shape people ever. It's really frightening. So simply being certified doesn't say anything about swimming ability

As a diver, triathlete, and ER physician I don't see much correlation between diving and open water swimming (except for the wetsuit and open water). Like ChrisM, I have seen the most unhealthy and overweight looking people on a dive boat.

Scuba diving is all about conserving your energy (and thus, your air supply).

I also don't think we can attribute most swim deaths in triathlon to SIPE. I agree that there must be underlying pathology that contributes to these deaths on the swim, but I think to say that many of these are purely myocardial infarctions is assuming too much. If it was simply coronary disease I think we would see more deaths on the bike and run. Perhaps, it is just because the swim is the first leg of the race that triggers the cardiac event or there is something about the swim itself that provokes an underlying condition.

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