single largest factor influencing bicycle performance is bicycle fit and positioning

The single largest factor influencing bicycle performance is colour. Everyone knows black bikes are fastest.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Also true.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

But no,

You're half right.

Going to a trustworthy fit guy is step one. Finding a group of brands that fit you is step two. Riding those bikes to see how the bike rides and how you like the controls/components is step 3. Fine tuning the components and wheels is step 4. Buying the bike that best fits the previous steps and your budget is the final step.

Merckx and DeRosa make a certain size frame that is off the shelf that gets close to fitting me. Put Shimano junk on it, - I'm not getting on it. Put the wrong wheels on it, - yes wheels are critical to the feel of the bike, - it makes a huge difference. Even with the "right" fit, the same components and the same wheels, a Merckx rides very different than a DeRosa... I rode both, didn't like the Merckx, bought the DeRosa.

There's no POS Trek that I'm ever going to be seen on. Any $400 Bianchi made in Italy and weighing 40lbs is better than any POS Shimano TREK even up to $10K, that everyone and their mother rides. Yeah, it's unreasonable vanity to want something more unique and exclusive, and I admit to being a snob. But it plays a role in determining what makes the "right" bike for you, - yes, not nearly as important as fit, - but it's important.

SHOPPING FOR A BIKE SHOP? Not necessarily a good idea, because the likelihood that a bike shop is going to have your top three fitted bikes is not very likely: but look who works in bike shops? Idiots who were fired from Starbucks for being late for work. They're going to try to force you onto a bike in THEIR shop, - no matter what your fit guy said. Count on them running your fit guy into the ground. Or worse, - they could try to sell you a bike that has Shimano garbage on it....

Ummmmm...

Did you have a bad experience with A) Shimano, and B) Trek? Or is it more of an exclusivity/aesthetic/euro-is-cooler thing?

I'm with you on the first paragraph. I can totally see where you are coming from on the last paragraph. I am having a little trouble sorting through all of the vitriol in the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs to find out if you are really making a point or if you are just venting.

that is interesting!!!!!!! i guess if you grow up in a cycling culture....you get more into some brands and not into some others....i dont judge you at all on that...

but when my dad took me to Canadian Tire(equivalent of walmart) and bought me a STEVE BAUER bike with 10 speed, I was on top of the world!!! i was 14 years old and decide that i was going to put more miles on this bike that my dad will put on his new car for the summer months..... i rode it moring and night....every chance i had.... i was on my steve bauer!!!! it was yellow like the yellow jersey....and i was the king!!!! i would lauch vicious attack on any old men or women on the road with there hybride bike or MTB..... i was invincible.... I had no clue what components were on that thing and no clue about the wheels either.... But i m pretty sure that at the end of that summer... i would not had been happier with a derosa or bianchi or anything else! i feel in love with riding and hurting myself and pedaling in circle all day long!

Trek kick ASS.....they are cool and nice machine...... i have one i presently ride..... i also rode a pinarello last week and train most of the time on my planet X this season.... the point they all have in commun is that i just have to make circle with my feet to make them go forward.... and the faster i make the circle...the faster the bike goes... independantly of the nationality of the bike or his components! so yeah, as long as i have a bike underneath me.... i think i will be smiling big time!

and as for bike fit..... there is 3 very important aspect in MY book. The seat post and the stem and the spacer....these have allowed me to ride all my friends bikes.. compete at internation level for the past 5 years......travel to ottawa and borrow someones bike and make it fit in 3 minutes and ride the hell out of it with the cool triathlete from out there..... these 3 elements have never let me down in bike fitting...

i do not charge a lot for bike fitting(usualy a smile is enought), it dosnt take very long either..... i dont want someone to waste to much time on a stand or trainer when he could be enjoying to open roads!!!!!!!!!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

I'm more joking than anything.....

Just phishing for a little love on a thursday.... :-)

Really, there isn't a lot of frame difference between a carbon fiber Dreck/Trek and a carbon fiber Pinarello time trial bike. They'll both pretty much ride the same, and most of us aren't going to feel a ride difference all things being equal.....

All in good fun...

If you do all of the right things, which are....

get fit
choose 4 or 5 brand bikes that do
test them
choose your "right" wheels
Test them
you've gone a long way in the right direction.
The rest is just subtle ride feel, brand name, and color scheme

I think many people have a hard time seeing fit as a consideration when buying a bike, because there really aren't many instances where consumers face buying a product where the fit is tied so directly to the performance. We're usually buying things where fit alone is important, or performance is the priority, but rarely both. Clothing is the obvious one where it's all about fit(and fashion). But things like cars, computers, stereos, household appliances, etc. are all bought by simply finding the balance of price vs. performance that you're willing to accept, and the performance is easily quantifiable by looking at the spec sheet. Basically, these things will work and perform the same for anyone, unlike a bike where we all know, like it or not, it's not about the bike. Anyone can cruise at 300km/h in a Ferrari, but not anyone can cruise at 40km/h on a Cervelo or Trek.

Greg.

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DING DING!! Artmus speaks the truth!
100 miles a day is the only power meter you need.

Of the two bikes I've already decided I'd consider owning (before fitting and positioning), which one is better?

With the number of bikes, sizes, styles etc, isn't there a large possibility that any number of mfg'rs will fit a single rider? With that in mind once one is "fit" seems people are going to make the rest of the desicion based on "bang for your buck" and the cool factor.

Personally I think buyers fall into a couple categories. Those that have no clue what "Fit" is and buy based only on looks and "Bang for the Buck". Those that do know what fit is and ignore and buy like the people that don't know. Those that buy buy fit and then the rest.

Personally I think the biggest problem is actually finding a bike shop that you are comfortable with. I'd say the vast majority of people are not within a "reasonable" distance from a true, knowledgeable, bike shop. Most people can go within 15 minutes of their house to find several reliable car dealerships, but have to drive, in many cases hours, to find a decent tri bike fitter.

In the end this sometimes forces those that don't have a decent local fitter to try and "fit" themselves...not the best option, but also likely the reason for a lot of questions about bike fit.

~Matt

So true:

"I think many people have a hard time seeing fit as a consideration when buying a bike, because there really aren't many instances where consumers face buying a product where the fit is tied so directly to the performance."

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I must have gotten lucky when I went to buy my first bike. I knew I wanted a road bike because I wanted something versatile and given some health issues, I wasn't sure I would do tris for more than 1 or 2 seasons anyways but I was pretty sure I would be able to continue riding.

I "found" a very old road bike with steel rims and shifters on the down tube and went off to do my first race where I was so nervous about reaching down to shift that I stayed in the same gear the ENTIRE race and I flatted and rode the rims (the bike shop I went to later was very impressed by this....and a little scared for me). It was pure misery. I think I averaged 15MPH and oh the pain due to the poor fit. Wow. I even managed to get DQd for something, but I finished the race and the first thing I did when I got home was make an appointment with the bike shop that sponsors my tri club.

The fitting process reminded me a little of when Harry Potter gets his wand - - the fitter talked about my goals, tested my flexibility, measured a zillion things and then suggested to me which bike would be best and it truly fits like a glove. It is incidently one of the least fancy bikes on the rack (although I felt guilty spending as much as I did on it, my friends routinely spend double the amount on new bikes), at any given race but it is a fantastic bike - - and I laugh maniacally (to myself of course), whenever I pass people on super expensive bikes that they don't really look right on. Anyhow, I was fit by Adam at Get A Grip in Chicago. I've heard of some other great fitters in the area but I've had no expereince with them. I am very pleased though that I was fit before I bought. While my new bike was on order, my "found" bike was adjusted to my specs and it made a HUGE difference, but hey, I wanted a new bike ;)

Great post.

I personally think that if you feel that the bike is shouting out to you to buy it, buy it!!! I believe that with spacers the correct stem and saddle placement fit is easily achievable on a bike that is the correct size.

It's all in having fun!

Derek

well...not most people can find the right bike as a lot of people have very limited understanding of bike size and all.... but when the bike shop employe got you on the right size, you are very close to be all set.... ask a good friend that understand well how to fit someone and it s done. I m just very suspicious of 100-300$ bike fits..... it dosnt take that long to fit someone and the better the fiter... the more you realise how simple the process is and how quick it goes...

but there is also the buisness side of things... i m sure a lot of people will feel very special and taken care of by having someone giving them attention for a 1h+ to fit them and set them on there maching like if they were to ride the tour de france in a do or die situation! The point is... bike fit happen on the road...not on a trainer.... bike fit is done over week with small adjustement and riding many miles until you fit the sweet spot and get in complete harmony with your bike..... that s my opinion anyway and i might be completly wrong!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Tom, have you ever done a fitting and found that your shop did not carry the bike best suited to that person? Didn't think so.

Buddy went the local LBS, expressed interest in a Ti Litespeed, but they only had a 60 cm, so are they gonna let $3500 walk out the door, no. They got him on the thing and lasar fitted it to him, by messing with the seat and bars, etc. He was very impressed and to this day loves his bike, but I can tell you right now, its too big for him.

In a perfect world, fitters would be independant and you would simply pay for a lit of bikes with geometries that would fit you best.

I feel frustrated because LBS love their own gear and think everything else is inferior. So where is the objective fitting recommendation. As long as you fit the LBS product, its ok.

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"Success is failing without loosing enthusiasm"

Both my current road bike (Litespeed Tuscany) and tri bike (Lucero) were bought sight unseen with no test ride. I just worked off the geometry charts since I knew what I needed. I find numbers are less subjective than going ga ga over sexy carbon. Maybe not as fun but if you just focus on objective numbers you are more likely to find good fit...or maybe I am just full of shit.

The shop that fit me did not have the bike in store and we special ordered it and it wasn't their highest margin item. So do ethics exist in bike shops? Absolutely. Some bike shops are very ethical, others not so much. Just like every other aspect of life.

I think my bike shop saw a total beginner that was serious about fitness (my background is swimming), but just getting into cycling. They wanted to build a relationship and correctly surmised that if I got bit by the bug, I'd be back for more. I've since bought another bike from them (a cross bike), and maybe in another year I'll upgrade the road bike - - it would be nice to have two of those anyways :)

They got long term repeat business and someone who gives them excellent advertising via word of mouth rather than a single sale to someone who wouldn't have any allegiance to the shop anyways.

It's still basically all about the engine, ain't it?
This is a comment and a shameless plug for Timemachine. I went to his shop in Coquitlam, BC about five years ago when I still lived in Vancouver to get fit for my first road bike. It was going to do double duty for tris as well. Greg didn't even mention brands, but set me up on a few different bikes and aerobars. I do recall that I fit a Devinci best, but I accepted a new job in AB that week and moved two weeks later. I do recall that I saw a Cervelo in his shop. It was the first time I saw one and I thought it looked rather odd with the big flat down tube.
Anyhoo, the point here is that he was a cool guy that knew what he as doing. I don't know if he has fancy suffixes behind his name. He didn't FIST me, which is good, 'cause too many men in Vancouver are into that these days. He took a lot of body measurements and moved me around on the bike, and constantly asked questions as I pedaled.
Even now, a lot of the fit techniques he used I apply today.
Any folks in the Lower Mainland or even other parts of BC should give this guy a holler if they want a good fit experience.
Paradoxically, I somewhat agree with jonnyo, as I rode and raced mountain bike for many years before the road and tri gig. I can fit on most bikes with some minor tweaks, but some just have an intangible feel that makes them better.

Psycholist you rock. The quote below is significant knowing what you have achieved on a bike.

"There's an essence to bike fit. It's not hard to gleen with a little research and a little experience. You've gotta know how to get it in the ballpark. But it's not rocket science. Once you're in the ballpark, the name of the game is adaptation."

The truth has been exposed.

I tried this before, but it didn't post for some reason...

I have to take offense to some of your statements here. In fact, in the short time I have been frequenting this board I have seen many sweeping generalizations about bike shops that are very poor.

I am a long time professional mechanic at an LBS. I am not there because I am a coffee shop reject. I didn't show up to work late, hungover or stoned. I have a BA. I am a member of Mensa. I have had "important" and "real" jobs that may have demanded a little more social respect or put a few more dollars in my pocket. I have been offered jobs in fields you may never have even heard of before. I don't work there anymore or didn't take the offers because I love what I do now and I am damn good at it. All of my fellow employees have similar stories. Even our part-timer's consist of doctoral students and retired nucular technicians.

Perhaps your LBS isn't up to snuff. Maybe they hired the wrong people. Maybe you didn't give them the benefit of the doubt or the chance to learn. Maybe you should find a more professional shop. In any event, please don't insinuate that ALL shop employees are the same.

My shop is in Buffalo NY. Stop by if you're ever in town and I will more than happy to make you an espresso (with a Saeco machine) and discuss the finer aspects of cylcing or any other subject you choose. I'll even direct you to one of the best Tri fitters in the business, who has hundreds of loyal clients that include a top five in ITU World's, dozens Kona qualifiers and many local heros. All that and we won't even push Trek (even though we are the 2nd largest dealer in upstate NY) OR Shimano.

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DING DING!! Artmus speaks the truth!
100 miles a day is the only power meter you need.

If I read this correctly, your saying "I have a shop, we do FISTing, come buy from me", rather than buy a bike take a picture and put it on this forum asking for fitting help. Sounds fair, but I think it should be on the "classified forum" as you're selling your services.

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http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/

Completely and utterly agree, I hardly EVER go to bike shops anymore cause most of them are staffed with kids that are so ignorant and stupid regarding bikes that I have to literally restrain myself from beating them with a crankarm. I do almost all of my own wrenching, and I know my fit needs fairly well. I just got a QR used from a friend for basically free, and with a little tweaking, and some help from my wife with a camera, and then about 4 rides of 50 miles each, I've gotten it pretty well nailed...The thing about bikes and fitting....it's NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. There is one exception, there is an LBS near me that has treated me VERY well, and I will go there to buy tires and pads, and assorted other miscellaneous parts. Most everything else, I'll do myself.

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SIC VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM

http://physasst.blogspot.com/

First of all, I could care less if you buy a bike from me or my shop. Secondly, we do not FIST, we fit.

What I am saying is this... not all LBS' are created equal. Mine happens to be staffed by professionals that are highly trained and skilled. Sure, I can take a photo of my broken arm and post it on a site, but how do I know the guy replying has any idea how to set the bone?? Anyone can go on the internet and read articles, that does not make them qualified though! I cannot tell you how many people come into our shop that are "do-it-your-selfers" that have not only done things incorrectly, but in some cases even injured themselves due to poor and improper fits.

Again, I am not asking you to frequent my, or any other shop. I am merely saying that putting all shop employees into one collective, uneducated, greedy, group is absurd. I don't know what your chosen profession is, but I would like to think that I would not spout off uninformed comments such as I have heard (read) on this message board. Perhaps your job is a little more prestigious, or maybe you make a few more dollars... but does that really matter?

Maybe I'm out of line. Maybe I shouldn't care if one or two anonymous people on an internet message board think I am a ex-coffee shop slacker that wouldn't know the difference between a triathlon and a triangle. But, I do. As I said before, I love my job and I am good at it... money really has nothing to do with it, neither how much I make or how much you may spend.

Frankly, all I'm saying here is that shop employees deserve your respect. My shop sponsors many local triathlons. We provide prizes, market the events, bring a large amount of product to sell, and provide free bike service. No one seems to be grumbling about coffee-shop slacker's when I am fixing their bike for free, or replacing a tube last second. Why is that?

Why all the animosity against the LBS? As far as I am concerned, we are only here to help you!

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DING DING!! Artmus speaks the truth!
100 miles a day is the only power meter you need.

"Mine happens to be staffed by professionals that are highly trained and skilled."

The sad truth is that shops like yours are few and far between and getting more rare each day. The thing about generalizations is that they are just that,...generalizations. I think too many people have had the same poor local bike shop experiences for anyone to get too upset that they have a bad impression of LBSs. Greedy owners who only want to sell their specific stuff, uneducated shop employees who don't know anything about bikes or customer service, limited selection, high prices, etc, etc. Don't get me wrong, I have had the good fortune of living near some pretty good LBSs in the past and used them for a lot of things, but they were certainly the exception to the rule. Along with internet sales, it has become far less of a hassle to buy online and build a bike yourself than to try to weed through the crap at a lot of local shops. Sad, but, unfortunately, true.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)