While I agree that age group triathlon should not be a dumping ground for ex doped pro cyclists, the reality is age group triathlon is already packed with doped current banker-doctors-engineers-politicians etc etc etc. I seriously have less sympathy for my doped peers who earn a living elsewhere than ex doped cyclists who were doped to keep their job in the pro tour or go back to being an infantryman or bricklayer in Khazakstan. My personal encounter with this was being beaten by Dmitri Gaag at the World Military Games triathlon....I didn't like being beaten by him but hey, I understood why he would dope to be an elite athlete in the Khazakh military rather than front line infantryman. I had two graduate degrees while in the Armed Forces in a developed country and did not need to go down that path.

In any case Vino served his ban, yes he was doped and probably may be doped again, but not worse than doped peers I need to race against now. As I said, earlier, if he raced pro it is another thing. Age group tri seems to be a "doper free for all" anyway, so adding Vino into the mix does not change that we're already up against many dopers anyway. Does it send the wrong message letting him in? Sure, but you can't stop him from entering either. He is entitled to enter any event in any sport under the WADA umbrella!

Just because there are dopers in the AG ranks doesn't mean we should welcome more dopers. That is like saying there are plenty of pedophiles in society what does it matter if a famous one moves in next door. If you have someone that was caught and clearly doped for an extended period of time they don't get a pass. Just because we watched them on TV they don't get special treatment.

Again, under the current rules he is allowed to race, that doesn't mean we have to like it or give him a pass because it was his job. It is ok to say, you shouldn't be allowed to play this game.

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To answer your second question--yes, the past two editions of the Tour were slower than when Vino raced (1998 to 2009), with the sole exception of 2007. I will reserve my opinion on whether cycling/triathlon is cleaner now.

Don't forget he also bought races.

I don't think we get to decide what to like or not like. WADA decides who gets to race. WADA via WTC is allowing many age group dopers to already race. I like detest it more that WTC does not test age groupers than I am worried about Vino racing. I am trying to make the point that what is more outrageous is the free for all that is age group doping. Vino is just another former or current doper with a free pass. It's easy to get outraged about a guy who was caught (in which case the system actually did a partially good job). I think we should devote out outrage towards WTC doing more age group testing and testing people after they have KQ'd and entered the pool is too late. Test them before. As for Vino, yeah sure test him in Budapest, but that guy won't glow in competition. Never did after he came back from his ban so even if he doping now there is no chance in hell you'll catch him in competition because he has all of Astana's doc's at his disposal who are going to be ahead of the testers.

But to tell you the truth, i am really not worried about Vino doping in a tri. He has the entire legitimacy (which is almost nothing anyway in the protour) of Astana riding on what sliver of ethics he has left. If he got caught doping in or outside of a triathlon, there would be a massive explosion over at Eurosport+L'Equipe+BBC and pretty well all of mainstream European media. I would be surprised if he risked that for an age group race. But hey, we've been surprised before so who knows.

Which to me just makes more of a mockery of the lifetime ban that he who shall not be named received. I agree with a ban for life approach, but it has to be the same for all. Can't ban one for life and then let others in.

From an interest point of view, I will be interested to see how fast he goes. I hope he doesn't take a slot from someone though.

Outrage is not a limited resource there is plenty to go around for both Vino and your run of the mill AG dopers. It is not like after being outraged about Vino we just won't have anything left to care about your ordinary AG doper. If anything they can build on each other. You can train hard and work on being more aero at the same time.

You give Vino way too much credit to think he would think twice about "risking it" for an AG race. That is just normal person thinking applied to someone that puts his face on his own jersey.

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I did hesitate to write that final part about him weighing the impact of taking the orange juice, getting caught and how it would affect Astana....you're likely right, he probably still dopes just to get a good time on Col de la Madone or Alpe d'Huez vs other team directors on fun rides.

Please please let him be wearing that vino4ever jersey. Just once more is all I ask.

When he went off the front alone, with Uran chasing a distant second, in London, and got the fricken Olympic gold? I think I yelled out bullshit at the TV.

Vino out of the water in 34:53

I think it's within the rules, so yes it's OK.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

2:07 bike so...fast, but 4-8 minutes back of the guys at the front and over 10 minutes back on the swim.

On a side note, any one remember "Rob Barel" ? Crushing it in M55-59, 25 min swim 2:12 bike.

Maurice

4:26. About 4min behind a friend of mine who KQ'd in South Africa in M40-44.

I'd say nothing to write home about for a former pro who does not have a job and therefore all the time in the world to prepare vs us squeezing in training sessions on top of full time jobs.

Cheers
Roberto

His bike "sucked" I am guessing because his swim sucked.

He is the team director for Astana....hardly provides him "all the time in the world to prepare".

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Of course we remember Rob Barel....he also made the Sydney Olympics for Holland at age 40. Gotta love the old pros....hey H20fun, there's another old pro who won at Nice and a gazillion other races still ripping it up!

Well, I would say that his job CAN be very demanding as team director for Astana.

Looks like Vino got 91st overall and 10th in age group. He appears to have had the fastest bike split in his age group unless there is someone way down who ran and swam a lot slower.

Now hopefully he does not show up for Chatanooga 70.3 WC rolldown dressed like this:

I just checked out his bike split. It would have squeeked him into a top 10 pro bike splits and beat all the pro women. Granted he gets to ride under age group slingshot effect, so hard to compare. Bertrand Billard rode 1:57 vs Vino's 2:07, so this is a really fast course, so from that angle "nothing special" about Vino's bike split.

Having said that, I THINK he's got the body type who would actually do better at IM than half IM. He just does not "look" like he can run with the fastest ITU/olympic guys in his age group even with a ton of training, but I'd bet he could crank off a 3:20ish IM run.

So does he get picked as the "RANDOM" age group guy for doping control. While I doubt he will glow if tested today, it comes back to what Rasmus Henning said at Panama 70.3 when number 7 got second to Bevan Docherty, "Not even any doping control?". They could just humor everyone by getting Vino to pee in the cup and if nothing else never bother sending the samples for testing (Maurice, how does chain of custody etc work....if they get someone to pee in the cup do they have to send the sample to be tested in the lab, or can they just send the samples to the lab and do nothing)?

fair enough.

Vino races, Huetthaler wins, and Dev says...?

gregn wrote:

Vino races, Huetthaler wins, and Dev says...?

Dev says, "which sport is cleaner...Pro Cycling, Pro Triathlon, or NFL?"

My vote from cleanest to dirtiest:

1. Pro Cycling (at least they have the blood passport and they get tested more than pro triathletes)
2. Pro Triathlon (all most the same free for all as NFL. Less testing than Pro Cycling, but less money than NFL)
3. NFL (well, what can I say).

As for Vino and Lisa, well, the biggest problem is WADA rules. As a WADA signatory, I don't think WTC can keep these guys from racing by creating their own "more stringent" anti doping rules (ex would be 1 violation and you can't do our races)...then athletes would just take their cases to CAS and be permitted to race and WTC would have to let them in. At least the doping bans are longer now.


Funny thing on the Tour de France threads, I made many comments about Valverde...former doper, comes 3rd in the Giro and rips up the Tour as a "super domestique" for Quintana and finishes in 6th while getting some miles in for Rio. He is allowed to race, but man it just "feels" wrong not just how well he is doing at 36, but how he is glorified by the cycling media....just watch, I put Valverde down for favourite for a medal at Rio and it's gonna by Vino London 2012 all over again.

don't forget about Viktor "the needle", allegedly...

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Toro Performance

I see that one of the guys that escaped the Canadian border with his "medical supplies" after podium-ing at IM Canada Whistler 2015 ripped it up in Budapest!!!

Where can I buy this jersey. SO MUCH WIN