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Re: Refusing a test [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Mudge wrote:

That's not quite an accurate description of the event, the name nothwithstanding. It's just a TT with certified distances at 20 and 40 km, on a road that's favorable for fast times. It also serves as the NM State TT and the vast majority of competitors are at best trying for a PB, not a record.


Ah, maybe I confused it with some other event. I knew there was a record-attempt event on that course scheduled around Labor Day, and this one was called the 2023 Paula Higgins Memorial Record Challenge Time Trial, so I thought it was that.

I've always wanted to try that course to see if I could crack 50 minutes.

That's the right event, and why I said "the name notwithstanding". It's more than just an event where everyone there is trying for the record. In many, if not most categories, not a single entrant gets anywhere near a record. The reason I brought it up is that just because it's suitable for record runs, we should not assume that JF was there to try for a record and thus should've been shocked to have found he would be tested. I don't know who his partner was that day, but it's highly likely that he just got talked into doing the event with someone for giggles.
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Re: Refusing a test [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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Mudge wrote:
That's the right event, and why I said "the name notwithstanding". It's more than just an event where everyone there is trying for the record. In many, if not most categories, not a single entrant gets anywhere near a record. The reason I brought it up is that just because it's suitable for record runs, we should not assume that JF was there to try for a record and thus should've been shocked to have found he would be tested. I don't know who his partner was that day, but it's highly likely that he just got talked into doing the event with someone for giggles.

Gotcha. Makes sense. This is a bit different than say record-attempt days at Aguascalientes where everyone's lathered up with a goal in mind.
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Re: Refusing a test [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
Missing a test = obvious doper imo. It's 2023. I would be hard pressed to come up with a legitimate reason why someone can't take a test or can't be found when testers show up to your door. I think whereabouts should be public knowledge so that there's more accountability in athletics. We only hear when athletes miss tests. I want to know the people who routinely miss 1 or 2 each year.

What you're proposing would be a gross intrusion into basic privacy rights. You (we) have no right to know the whereabouts of athletes at all time.
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Re: Refusing a test [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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John Frey held the USA 40km TT record for many years. Set in 1990 - 47:35 and still held it in 2017. It has been broken since then. A good history of some of John's earlier cycling exploits.

https://pezcyclingnews.com/...nd-john-frey-part-1/

And he still holds the 40km tandem record from 1992.

https://usacycling.org/...rds/national-records
Last edited by: wetswimmer99: Dec 6, 23 17:47
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Re: Refusing a test [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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Here's an interesting tidbit...

At the race in question, there are TTs run on both Sunday and Monday of Labor Day weekend, but only the Sunday races are typically considered for records, as that's when the promoter pays for the appropriate level officials to be there, along with USADA reps. However, the article states that JF refused a test on Sep 4, which fell on Monday.

My guess, his time on Sunday wasn't spectacular for his given category (110+ combined age), but on Monday he must've had an older partner, as they were in the 130+ category, and even though he was much slower on Monday, it was fast enough for a record in the category. He probably had no expectation of being tested on that Monday, regardless of his result, and obviously the officials and testers were onsite.
Last edited by: Mudge: Dec 7, 23 11:19
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Re: Refusing a test [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Well color me surprised that another guy in my AG is taking the short cut, and no doubt will claim it is just normal HRT for old farts..

As a really late-to-the-party old fart (63), I’ve only been playing around with running and tris and after six years of getting back to training, finally getting back to some reasonable fitness and better placings in local, not really competitive events. So, I’m definitely in it for the health and fun.

But this is discouraging. Between all the pros and amateurs getting popped, it makes me wonder about some of the local guys. I hope I’m getting beat by clean guys, but are some these guys cheating too? I really hope not.

Makes me really focus on my results against me, but I’d like to podium one day,

It also affects my enjoyment of watching events. Is it not really the shoes, but better procedures for cheating, I’d rather it be the shoes.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.
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Re: Refusing a test [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
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Just so we are talking the same language, missing a test and refusing a test are 2 different things within WADA regulations.

This is a really important clarification. It's also important to note that if you're in the testing pool long enough, and if they're actually testing you, you're eventually going to miss a test. Caught in traffic, kid got sick and you had to bring them home from school, fell asleep and didn't hear the tester knock on the door... this s**t happens. Banning people for life for it happening *once* is nuts.

A bit of a funny story but slightly off topic since I've never refused to test because I had/have nothing to hide but I missed a test in 2015 when I got a last minute call up. The plane just landed for a quick layover and the USADA guy had just arrived at my mom's house for a sample. It was a terribly nerve wracking experience but no one cared. My team even laughed it off and said I had a few more to miss before anything mattered.
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