A two year ban is better than a four year ban right?

Seems pretty straightforward- dude was doped to the gills, no doubt. He went out to intentionally set a world record and then as part of the validation, then refused on the spot to be tested? That’s about as clear cut as an actual positive test kind of hilarious that he thought he could pull it off..

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MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

It's insane that anyone not racing for their livelihood use body altering drugs to "get better". Yes, you'd also ride faster with a motor in your bike. At least that's just being an jerk/cheater. The drugs are likely causing real damage that you'll pay for at some point.

I'm not excusing the pros who cheat, but at least you can see the financial incentives lining up. Cheating for bragging rights among a peer group that no one really knows or cares exists? (be it tandem time trial cyclists or 40yr AG Ironman). But for sure when people start googling "John Frey" they'll eventually find a different kind of notoriety this cheater wasn't considering.

We're doing this for competitive fun, we're doing this for health and fitness. How is cheating any measure of competition? How is blasting your body with drugs and hormones healthy? I can only conclude that the AGers who do this are ignorant selfish sociopaths.

That doesn't quite make sense because at a dedicated event explicitly designed for people to try for national records and explicitly with USADA people there for ratification purposes, it'd make no sense to show up glowing if you thought you were going to get a record. It's not like USADA showed up randomly and unannounced. Record attempts are the point of the event. It'd make more sense for a doper to try to game it so you'd show up testing clean, in which case you don't refuse a test.

It is plausible he was ignorant of the whole ratification process, though, and got caught off guard. But everyone I know who goes out to intentionally set national or world records are super knowledgeable on the UCI regulations for bikes and doping control processes.

It is equally plausible the tandem record is weakish and they stumbled into a record without knowing what was involved.

Well color me surprised that another guy in my AG is taking the short cut, and no doubt will claim it is just normal HRT for old farts..

And as to his surprise, I bet being in the old mans, tandem category he was just naive to the implications of setting a national record. He is now famous, just not in the way he dreamt about. Does anyone have a backstory on the guy, I may have raced him in the old days, name just doesnt ring any bells at the moment..

65 year old ass man doing this crap. What a moron! Shake my head…

No offense, but if you don’t know his backstory or remember racing him in the old days, maybe you weren’t paying attention.

Thanks for your help.

I do remember someone with a similar name who was a great TT'er, broke all sorts of records and kind of remember him getting snubbed from an olympic team because he was in his 40's?? At any rate did find this, seems like something sketchy going on, so maybe someone else that means me no offense can fill in some blanks?

https://www.mtbr.com/...s-john-frey.1192573/

This seems like a loophole that should be closed. Not sure why the rules would be structured to incentivize refusing a test.

It’s not the case of a similar name, it’s the same guy.

Was that so hard?? (-;

I do remember him now, of course 40+ years ago when we raced. Him and a guy named Kent Bostick were the two stand outs in the US for time trialing. I really dont remember him in many road races, although I'm sure he must have done some. And I recall a team trial in the olympics that those two were not selected for, and they did their own 100k TTTT around the same time as the games, and beat the US team that was sent..

Its all foggy memories now and some things may be wrong, so perhaps some old bike racers from the 80's have a better recollection? How about you Mudge, were you there in the peloton with us??

Nah, I didn’t start racing until ‘90, at the age of 33. It might have been that because I was in S AZ, I knew who he was. I have raced Bostick recently in AG races, though.

You are a bit younger than me, but glad to hear Kent is still at it. About 20 years ago I did some AG bike racing and remember him and Thurlow Rogers still rocking it. And Thurlow would do the AG race, then pitch up for the pro race afterwards. Believe I heard he is still at it too, probably around your age. Mostly only old bike racers remember him, but he was the other guy on that 84 olympic team where Grewal won the gold medal. And the womens were Connie Carpenter and Rebecca Twig getting gold and silver, a big break out year for US cycling for sure..

I was in my VW van camped out all night on the course, just to make sure I had a good seat at the top of the climb there in Mission Viejo.

Yeah, have shared tents with Bostick at recent track events. Cool to get old stories.

He's hilariously casual about nationals races. Some guys go through like hours long warmup prep with headphones on, visualizing. Kent's like, "Oh, they're lining up for my points race, better get up there."

I agree and certainly this can't be the case but that's what gathered from the article. One guy who failed a test got four years and this guy only got two years. Perhaps someone can set us straight.

Missing a test = obvious doper imo. It's 2023. I would be hard pressed to come up with a legitimate reason why someone can't take a test or can't be found when testers show up to your door. I think whereabouts should be public knowledge so that there's more accountability in athletics. We only hear when athletes miss tests. I want to know the people who routinely miss 1 or 2 each year.

I *believe* the rationale is that if you straight up refuse the test, it's 100% sanctioning; no questions ask. There's no lawyers involved, there's no second sample testing, like there is with the testing procedures that also includes opportunity to potentially work with testers to get a reduced sentence (it's not usually, but if you are truthful with them and "work" with them they have the ability to reduce the setence).

I don't think this "loophole" is suddenly going to be the quick answer because it's already a gurantee sanction. With how much "micro" doping is going on these days, unless you truly are glowing, you are far more likely to just keep taking the tests knowing with almost certainity you won't get popped. So I guess "refusing" the test is left for the people who literally know they are showing up glowing on race day (based on the number of clean tests we see that doesn't seem to be what is happening). So are they "getting away" with it? Sure but again I don't think many show up on race day glowing; IE- going to fail a test. If you know or have a high probilty of testing clean; why would you want to auto sanction yourself.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

With all the effort and cost put into sending people around to go test others, missing a test should actually have a higher penalty. The athlete should be incentivized to never miss a test, even if they are guilty. If the missed test penalty was an automatic lifetime ban, that could be appealed only after a length and expensive legal fee, what we'd see is less athletes missing tests and being willing to accept they got caught.

Counterpoint: It's cheap to not have to process the sample, skip the offering of processing a B-sample, bypass all the appeals process, bypass careful adherence to chain of custody process, bypass all the supplement and food contamination talk. Bypass lawyers having to prepare to brief to CAS to defend an analytical positive. Just two years and done with it.

That's not quite an accurate description of the event, the name nothwithstanding. It's just a TT with certified distances at 20 and 40 km, on a road that's favorable for fast times. It also serves as the NM State TT and the vast majority of competitors are at best trying for a PB, not a record.

Just so we are talking the same language, missing a test and refusing a test are 2 different things within WADA regulations. Missing a test is more of a whereabouts issue; and that only is for high level pro athletes who have to actual do daily whereabouts. You can miss tests for legit reasons (just as their are non legit reasons to "miss" a test) and that's why they allow up to 3 missed tests.

Refusing a test is when you actually come into contact with said doping tester and then refuse (either at a race or OOC test say answer your door and then refuse to allow the test to occur). Again I don't think refusing a test to get a 2 year ban instead of being tested is going to be the new move because again refusing is an AUTOMATIC ban; and again look at all the negative tests that happen at all these races- dopers don't generally show up to race glowing.


Now are dopers using the "missed" testing procedures as a run away.....Maybe / probaly. But I also think you get into real danger if you really invoke a "zero strike" policy. Again there are valid reasons why you could miss a test with your whereabouts, etc.

And missed tests aren't something the OP would be going through (missed tests are only for certain athletes who have to do daily 1hr whereabout locations which are the elite of the elite athlets; this type of AG athlete isn't part of that program; and AG's should never even be required to do that; if it gets to that point the sport will just die off cus random AG'ers aren't going to fill out daily whereabouts simply to race a 70.3 one time thing). Even if they sent someone to do an OOC test, they have no legal obligation to answer the door that whereabout athletes are required too do per WADA regulations. So if an AG athlete is targeted and went on vacation the day the tester shows up, they really can't do anything. But an tester who goes to an athlete who is required to be somewhere for 1 hour a day and they don't answer; they get a missed test violation (which again you get a few misses before you are finally sanctioned).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Ah, maybe I confused it with some other event. I knew there was a record-attempt event on that course scheduled around Labor Day, and this one was called the 2023 Paula Higgins Memorial Record Challenge Time Trial, so I thought it was that.

I've always wanted to try that course to see if I could crack 50 minutes.

Not suggesting that it's the case here, but there are illnesses/conditions that someone might suffer from that they wish to keep private knowledge and the prescription drugs used for said illnesses/conditions might show up on the test. Or, maybe someone knows they'd pop for THC consumed a few days prior, yet still hit the thresholds high enough for a violation of the 'in competition' ban, and they work in a sensitive job where THC use would result in termination. If you're going to lose your job or your security clearance for THC use AND get a ban from cycling, why not just take the ban and move on??

This is a really important clarification. It's also important to note that if you're in the testing pool long enough, and if they're actually testing you, you're eventually going to miss a test. Caught in traffic, kid got sick and you had to bring them home from school, fell asleep and didn't hear the tester knock on the door... this s**t happens. Banning people for life for it happening *once* is nuts.

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