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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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elecious wrote:
I've started the 5 day catch challenge this week and plan to do each day 5 times as I'm that bad 🤣 for anyone wondering day 1 is basically

200m easy with fins
4 * 50m Drill 1
4 * 50m Drill 2
4 * 100m

That's it, very easy to follow but one of the reasons I repeat the days is because I find it can take a few goes at a drill to actually figure out what I'm doing or how I think it should feel

I also try to increment the set as I repeat a day so by the time I'm doing my 4th day 1 I might be doing 6 * 50m for each drill and 6 * 100m

While there's no secret sauce above, I would caution the thread out of fairness to the ES team that we not post too much more about the details since we'd be essentially giving away their secret sauce for free. Full transparency: I have zero relationship with ES.
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]
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JFHJR wrote:
elecious wrote:
I've started the 5 day catch challenge this week and plan to do each day 5 times as I'm that bad 🤣 for anyone wondering day 1 is basically

200m easy with fins
4 * 50m Drill 1
4 * 50m Drill 2
4 * 100m

That's it, very easy to follow but one of the reasons I repeat the days is because I find it can take a few goes at a drill to actually figure out what I'm doing or how I think it should feel

I also try to increment the set as I repeat a day so by the time I'm doing my 4th day 1 I might be doing 6 * 50m for each drill and 6 * 100m

While there's no secret sauce above, I would caution the thread out of fairness to the ES team that we not post too much more about the details since we'd be essentially giving away their secret sauce for free. Full transparency: I have zero relationship with ES.

Agree and that's why I took out the names of the specific drills, their channel is great and seems to be a worthwhile investment for anyone looking to improve
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
zedzded wrote:
I do see some people with an OK stroke, but they are just pretty slow. I wonder if it's down to "feel for the water". And is that something that can't be coached? You can show someone how to swim with a high elbow, they might be able to mirror what a good swimmer is doing, but without that "feel" they don't catch and pull correctly.
While the term is hard to define and probably means different things to different people, it can definitely be taught.

That said, l think that if you swim for a long time with a bad stroke, feel for the water will remain elusive.

But if you start with an athletic person with essentially no feel for the water, if you start them swimming and then fix their stroke continuously as they rack up the yards, and also teach them to kick with a kickboard, kick with just their body, kick on their back, kick on their sides, kick with real fins (not with zoomer style fins--those are terrible as teaching tools). You teach them to breathe, teach them to scull, you teach them to pull with a buoy, to pull with paddles attached to just their middle fingers, you teach them drills that improve the pull, drills that help the arm recovery, drills that help body position, drills that actually address their specific stroke issues, you teach them other swim strokes, and you keep on giving direct feedback on (and specific instruction on how to fix) their stroke flaws over the weeks, months, and years. And, also critical, they keep on swimming lots.

In this process, they will absolutely get a feel of the water. In making the final sculpture, the instruction will lop off the biggest chunks of stone. Then, with time, learning, and practice, the water (in concert with an engaged brain) will trim off the smaller pieces and polish the final sculpture to a nice sheen.
With the "athletic person" caveat, you've narrowed the field to the roughly 10% of the general population who can catch onto most athletic skills w/o too much difficulty. :)

Yeah, you are probably right. But, I figure, most people here can run a few steps and can push pedals around in a circle, so I think we all fit that bill, well, at least somewhat.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]
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JFHJR wrote:
I've had a tri-specific coach and two masters coaches. I've used Front Pack Swim. My wife is a former collegiate swimmer and coach. The local Y coach has looked at my stroke for me. They all think my stroke is "fine". Some have written great workouts for me. None has significantly improved my ability to swim faster.

Looks like you didn't progress that much with them but I'm curious about your experience with Front Pack Swim? I read a lot of good reviews (including on this forum)

I had an interesting intro call with them recently where they basically told me that everything I see online only applies to tall strong swimmers and that as a short petite woman I need to develop a "custom" stroke with fast turnover/limited rotation to stay on top of the water, that CU drills and such will only make me slower, blahblahblah (very marketing but somewhat made sense). I at least like that they guarantee the results and will (supposedly) refund you if you don't reach the agreed target.

Given the price and the fact that I'm still very much a beginner and still improving by increasing my volume I will reassess later when I'm at a better level and start plateauing if the $$ are really worth it. I'm barely breaking the 10k m per week barrier which I know is still very low but getting there was not easy as an adult learner (combined with childcare logistics and work). I try to have a strong focus on technique (lot of time watching YouTube, going to clinics and getting individual lessons once in a while to get tips) and add intensity.
Anyway, back to FPS... I just hate that they did plant a seed of doubt in my mind that makes me question if I'm ingraining bad habits every time I do a drill.
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
zedzded wrote:
I do see some people with an OK stroke, but they are just pretty slow. I wonder if it's down to "feel for the water". And is that something that can't be coached? You can show someone how to swim with a high elbow, they might be able to mirror what a good swimmer is doing, but without that "feel" they don't catch and pull correctly.
While the term is hard to define and probably means different things to different people, it can definitely be taught.

That said, l think that if you swim for a long time with a bad stroke, feel for the water will remain elusive.

But if you start with an athletic person with essentially no feel for the water, if you start them swimming and then fix their stroke continuously as they rack up the yards, and also teach them to kick with a kickboard, kick with just their body, kick on their back, kick on their sides, kick with real fins (not with zoomer style fins--those are terrible as teaching tools). You teach them to breathe, teach them to scull, you teach them to pull with a buoy, to pull with paddles attached to just their middle fingers, you teach them drills that improve the pull, drills that help the arm recovery, drills that help body position, drills that actually address their specific stroke issues, you teach them other swim strokes, and you keep on giving direct feedback on (and specific instruction on how to fix) their stroke flaws over the weeks, months, and years. And, also critical, they keep on swimming lots.

In this process, they will absolutely get a feel of the water. In making the final sculpture, the instruction will lop off the biggest chunks of stone. Then, with time, learning, and practice, the water (in concert with an engaged brain) will trim off the smaller pieces and polish the final sculpture to a nice sheen.
With the "athletic person" caveat, you've narrowed the field to the roughly 10% of the general population who can catch onto most athletic skills w/o too much difficulty. :)


Yeah, you are probably right. But, I figure, most people here can run a few steps and can push pedals around in a circle, so I think we all fit that bill, well, at least somewhat.

And obv there are diff types of "athleticism", e.g. the diff betw a sprinter and D runner, betw a golfer and BB player, etc. There's a HS kid I see around the pool/gym a fair amount, and this kid can really swim, as in a 1:50 200 yd free, but he can not run well at all and he is not strong at all in the weight room. But put him in the water and he is something of a star; granted a 1:50 200 free at age 16/17 does not suggest Oly potential but it is quite fast by triathlon standards. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [thatzone] [ In reply to ]
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I have not done Effortless Swimming, BUT I love his videos and content. I'm a pretty fast and experienced swimmer, in part because I had years of great coaching that focused on efficient technique. If I can get some consistent training in before a tri, I'll usually be one of the first out of the water. When I'm in swim training mode, I focus so much on technique and it helps so much.

I love the videos from Effortless Swimming and I think it would be worth trying. Making the changes he coaches for takes time but they are such a game changer – it's hard to describe how different it is to swim with efficiency vs. just spinning the wheels and getting out of breath. I have it on my list of things to do to try out his coaching when I'm next focusing a lot on swimming. I have a GoPro, too, and it's a great tool to have.
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [CaliB] [ In reply to ]
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CaliB wrote:
JFHJR wrote:
I've had a tri-specific coach and two masters coaches. I've used Front Pack Swim. My wife is a former collegiate swimmer and coach. The local Y coach has looked at my stroke for me. They all think my stroke is "fine". Some have written great workouts for me. None has significantly improved my ability to swim faster.


Looks like you didn't progress that much with them but I'm curious about your experience with Front Pack Swim? I read a lot of good reviews (including on this forum)

I had an interesting intro call with them recently where they basically told me that everything I see online only applies to tall strong swimmers and that as a short petite woman I need to develop a "custom" stroke with fast turnover/limited rotation to stay on top of the water, that CU drills and such will only make me slower, blahblahblah (very marketing but somewhat made sense). I at least like that they guarantee the results and will (supposedly) refund you if you don't reach the agreed target.

Given the price and the fact that I'm still very much a beginner and still improving by increasing my volume I will reassess later when I'm at a better level and start plateauing if the $$ are really worth it. I'm barely breaking the 10k m per week barrier which I know is still very low but getting there was not easy as an adult learner (combined with childcare logistics and work). I try to have a strong focus on technique (lot of time watching YouTube, going to clinics and getting individual lessons once in a while to get tips) and add intensity.
Anyway, back to FPS... I just hate that they did plant a seed of doubt in my mind that makes me question if I'm ingraining bad habits every time I do a drill.

The guys at FPS are really great. They're passionate and knowledgeable.

For me, though, it wasn't a fit for two reasons:
  1. They held their video review calls in the middle of the work day Eastern Time. I could never make them and there wasn't a workaround. So, I never got my stroke reviewed/critiqued.
  2. Their training model is built around constant testing and accountability tracking. I saw some very quick gains and exciting, but a few weeks in, my entire mindset shifted from learning to swim to beating the last test's times at all costs (technique be damned). Pretty soon, I dreaded going to the pool because it was a mess of failure and flailing arms/legs.

I, too, was told about a customized stroke for my size and ability. I never saw anything customized, or any attempt to customize.

YMMV. Like I said, though, I really liked the coaches personally. It just wasn't a good fit for me.
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [thatzone] [ In reply to ]
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thatzone wrote:
Anyone do his program & actually make progress? Or any other online programs that teach the technicalities of swimming you would recommend?

I did a sprint tri on Sunday that I've done every year since 2013. Swim is 1/4 mile in a protected bay so no current. Using comparative times among people who competed both this year and last year, it looks like the course was marked a little short this year. After adjusting for that, I estimate I dropped 40 seconds from my best ever time and 1:10 from my time averaged over the previous 8 years.

I did the 5-day catch challenge and I'm in Week 3 of the 8-week course.
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Re: Effortless Swimming online swim instruction [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]
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JFHJR wrote:
For me, though, it wasn't a fit for two reasons:
  1. They held their video review calls in the middle of the work day Eastern Time. I could never make them and there wasn't a workaround. So, I never got my stroke reviewed/critiqued.

That’s ridiculous. Effortless Swimming’s live review calls are in the middle of the night for me, but you don’t have to attend them live, they are available to watch later at whatever time you want and however often you want.
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